Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Mikegamer0608]

Hey guys, I had this really huge group debate with some people at my local video game & card shop today about 4th party characters joining Smash Bros but the central point was that the character had to have a huge impact in gaming in order to join Smash. Like for example someone was talking about Spider-man joining because of his entire history with Capcom's involvement with Marvel in creating the Marvel vs Capcom franchise plus the Spider-man games in general like Spider-man 2 (PS2, GCN, XBOX) and the recent Marvel's Spider-man (Playstation) franchise and Marvel Rivals and some other people obviously brought in characters like Goku and Naruto because of the their franchise's Budokai Tenkaichi series along with Goku's games dating back all the way to the Famicom system and the Naruto Ninja Storm Series making a huge impact in gaming. They believe Smash Bros should evolve to celebrate gaming with impactful 4th party characters.

Any thoughts?

 

[Kirbeh]

Hey guys, I had this really huge group debate with some people at my local video game & card shop today about 4th party characters joining Smash Bros but the central point was that the character had to have a huge impact in gaming in order to join Smash. Like for example someone was talking about Spider-man joining because of his entire history with Capcom's involvement with Marvel in creating the Marvel vs Capcom franchise plus the Spider-man games in general like Spider-man 2 (PS2, GCN, XBOX) and the recent Marvel's Spider-man (Playstation) franchise and Marvel Rivals and some other people obviously brought in characters like Goku and Naruto because of the their franchise's Budokai Tenkaichi series along with Goku's games dating back all the way to the Famicom system and the Naruto Ninja Storm Series making a huge impact in gaming. They believe Smash Bros should evolve to celebrate gaming with impactful 4th party characters.

Any thoughts?

I'd prefer if Smash sticks to game characters specifically but if it happens it happens. I don't think it will happen, but I wouldn't be bothered by it unless it was somehow a hard pivot to just being "big names" in media for the sake of brand recognition and marketability.

I suppose you could say that "I'm opposed until I'm not."

I don't actively want Spider-Man, Goku or Naruto in Smash. I'm opposed to them on principle, not because I dislike any of them. In a scenario where any of them actually happened I'd probably be pretty happy, though again, provided it's a properly curated choice and not the herald of corporate crossover slop.

My ideal Smash still excludes non-game characters, but I'd still play a game that has them.

I don't want to be rude but I feel like we have these "hey who do you think the indie frontrunners are" talks about once a week at this point.

On a less curmudgeonly note, where can I ask about creating threads? I've been mulling over an idea for a while, but I dunno where to pitch it.

To be fair, the thread has been recycling the same, small pool of topics ad nauseum for literal years. Most attempts to bring up new topics don't last very long if anyone even responds to them in the first place. Beyond that, new topics don't come up very often to begin with either.

As for thread creation, that depends entirely on what the topic in question is.

If it's a personal project you could try the Arts and Creativity section. If it's still Smash or at least Nintendo related you could try either Smashboards Creates or post it in NintenZone like this thread.

 

[Mikegamer0608]

I'd prefer if Smash sticks to game characters specifically but if it happens it happens. I don't think it will happen, but I wouldn't be bothered by it unless it was somehow a hard pivot to just being "big names" in media for the sake of brand recognition and marketability.

I suppose you could say that "I'm opposed until I'm not."

I don't actively want Spider-Man, Goku or Naruto in Smash. I'm opposed to them on principle, not because I dislike any of them. In a scenario where any of them actually happened I'd probably be pretty happy, though again, provided it's a properly curated choice and not the herald of corporate crossover slop.

My ideal Smash still excludes non-game characters, but I'd still play a game that has them.

I do agree with Smash Bros staying video game characters but I was overwhelmed with how many people in this group who were open to the idea of 4th party characters joining Smash Bros but to their argument that only characters who have had a huge impact in gaming. I guess I can say I’m open to certain ones joining, I guess you could call them “special cases”, but in my argument I would only let in a few characters who have big or historic games in the gaming community then lock the floodgates back up before it gets too chaotic and crazy.

 

[Idon]

I do agree with Smash Bros staying video game characters but I was overwhelmed with how many people in this group who were open to the idea of 4th party characters joining Smash Bros but to their argument that only characters who have had a huge impact in gaming. I guess I can say I’m open to certain ones joining, I guess you could call them “special cases”, but in my argument I would only let in a few characters who have big or historic games in the gaming community then lock the floodgates back up before it gets too chaotic and crazy.

There is no "locking the gates up" after you let even one non-videogame character in.

It's pandora's box and once there's precedent, people will go wild with anything. As it turns out, there's a LOT of licensed games out there for other media characters. I'm not interested in discussing the merits of Darth Vader or Harry Potter despite their " notable gaming presence"

at least, more than we usually do here anyways.

 

[Mikegamer0608]

There is no "locking the gates up" after you let even one non-videogame character in.

It's pandora's box and once there's precedent, people will go wild with anything. As it turns out, there's a LOT of licensed games out there for other media characters. I'm not interested in discussing the merits of Darth Vader or Harry Potter despite their " notable gaming presence"

at least, more than we usually do here anyways.

Thinking about it, I guess my idea of locking up the floodgates wouldn’t be the best quote of me saying but more of only 4th party characters who have made a huge impact in gaming over the generations and somewhat today. Darth Vader and Harry Potter do have their gaming presence but you also have to discuss if their games can be recognized as impactful within the gaming community and to even be brought up and praised by big game developer circles.

 

[fogbadge]

Hey guys, I had this really huge group debate with some people at my local video game & card shop today about 4th party characters joining Smash Bros but the central point was that the character had to have a huge impact in gaming in order to join Smash. Like for example someone was talking about Spider-man joining because of his entire history with Capcom's involvement with Marvel in creating the Marvel vs Capcom franchise plus the Spider-man games in general like Spider-man 2 (PS2, GCN, XBOX) and the recent Marvel's Spider-man (Playstation) franchise and Marvel Rivals and some other people obviously brought in characters like Goku and Naruto because of the their franchise's Budokai Tenkaichi series along with Goku's games dating back all the way to the Famicom system and the Naruto Ninja Storm Series making a huge impact in gaming. They believe Smash Bros should evolve to celebrate gaming with impactful 4th party characters.

Any thoughts?

get new friends 4 parties are a terrible idea

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Yeah, I like characters like Goku and Spider-Man but 4th-Party would be the Pandora Box that will jump miles above the Shark.

Not only would be expensive but Smash Bros as an identity will never be the same again becoming lesser Fortnite where only big IPs and Companies getting their say buying their way into fighter-spots. Disaster

There are still vast amount of VG-originated characters still waiting for their chances to getting in. Nintendo All-Stars is already steadily being stripped and "Celebration of Gaming" Ultimate DLC cycle was already bad enough. Let's just keep the lid on it permanently.

Unless if it means VG-originated characters from Licensed properties like Android 21, i would have to boot on the ground against the notion.

Imagine the amount getting VG character snubbed and disregarded against because of meme picks like Goku, Shrek, Wojacks, Pepe, Batman, Emojis, Gojo, The Rock, Trump etc dominating speculation.

The disaster would be absolutely be hilarious but it would definitely be the last Smash game ever. Consequences will forever severe.

Now part of me wants to happen just for pure chaos. Crossover of Nintendo and Internet Culture.

Super Smash Bros. Online CrossFire

 

[Mikegamer0608]

get new friends 4 parties are a terrible idea

Most of them were just locals competing in the shop’s Smash tournament but 4th parties will probably will never happen in my view point too but I just had to bring up the discussion because I was surprised of how open people were of welcoming certain 4th party characters in.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Yeah, I like characters like Goku and Spider-Man but 4th-Party would be the Pandora Box that will jump miles above the Shark.

Not only would be expensive but Smash Bros as an identity will never be the same again becoming lesser Fortnite where only big IPs and Companies getting their say buying their way into fighter-spots. Disaster

The disaster would be absolutely be hilarious but it would definitely be the last Smash game ever. Consequences will forever severe.

While I also don't expect Sakurai to break his One Rule and allow "fourth parties" in, this is more or less the mindset people had back when Snake was revealed. And yet Smash has only grown bigger and more interesting since.

Naturally, it would lose its current soul if we cross that line but who's to say it would be worse? Sure, it would be HELL for speculation but what about outside of it? People who don't spend time either speculating or gatekeeping might see endless possibilities rather than eternal suffering.

Just food for thought.

Unless if it means VG-originated characters from Licensed properties like Android 21, i would have to boot on the ground against the notion.

While Android 21 is technically a video game character, she would be just as complex and messy in licensing as any other Dragon Ball character because at the end of the day, she's still one of them. And if you're gonna go through all that trouble, why not aim for the main guy?

This is why cases like her are ridiculous to me. Sure, the One Rule isn't broken but it'd be such a mess to even get them that at this point, I'd rather see the One Rule broken because it'd be the same amount of effort for a much bigger reaction.

 

[Mikegamer0608]

Yeah, I like characters like Goku and Spider-Man but 4th-Party would be the Pandora Box that will jump miles above the Shark.

Not only would be expensive but Smash Bros as an identity will never be the same again becoming lesser Fortnite where only big IPs and Companies getting their say buying their way into fighter-spots. Disaster

There are still vast amount of VG-originated characters still waiting for their chances to getting in. Nintendo All-Stars is already steadily being stripped and "Celebration of Gaming" Ultimate DLC cycle was already bad enough. Let's just keep the lid on it permanently.

Unless if it means VG-originated characters from Licensed properties like Android 21, i would have to boot on the ground against the notion.

Imagine the amount getting VG character snubbed and disregarded against because of meme picks like Goku, Shrek, Wojacks, Pepe, Batman, Emojis, Gojo, The Rock etc dominating speculation.

The disaster would be absolutely be hilarious but it would definitely be the last Smash game ever. Consequences will forever severe.

Now part of me wants to happen just for pure chaos. Crossover of Nintendo and Internet Culture.

Super Smash Bros. Online CrossFire

Funny you mention some of those characters like Android 21 or someone like Shrek because those people said they would recognize them as joke characters and didn’t take characters like them seriously. The Debate had characters thrown around like Spider-man, Batman, Goku, Naruto, etc. Funny enough I brought up Popeye in the discussion because of his history with Nintendo but I was shot down because he’s not relevant in today’s gaming culture

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Funny enough I brought up Popeye in the discussion because of his history with Nintendo but I was shot down because he’s not relevant in today’s gaming culture

You can try again since he's public domain

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Naturally, it would lose its current soul if we cross that line but who's to say it would be worse? Sure, it would be HELL for speculation but what about outside of it? People who don't spend time either speculating or gatekeeping might see endless possibilities rather than eternal suffering.

They weren't wrong to be concerned with Snake, Ditching Nintendo-All Star moniker was a bold move that would possibly kill the series if Sakurai wasn't careful but he immediately set limits by having 3rd-Party as VIP guests and VG characters only. This might be a whiplash for younger fans but Brawl and 4 only had 2-3 Third Parties with Snake being replaced later. Ultimate was exception which was the title opened the floodgates. Lot more fanservice but almost careless when coming into DLC season.

Now people expect every Third Party under the sun and with Nintendo characters been seen as icky, lame. "White" Bread choices.

You need a limit somewhere. Definitions and meanings by-nature about setting boundaries and limits because if everyone is special and the one thing, nothing is.

What would Smash Bros even mean anymore if floodgates broken even further and just excepted everyone? Where would be limit and restriction be compared to just Video Games? Why not just download Mugen for free?

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Frankly, I think any of my third-party picks would be a big surprise. With the exception of Dovahkiin, and maybe Athena, considering they're both in Ultimate in some form. I think Okabe might have a legitimate chance, but he'd still be a surprise due to 1) not being a fighter, 2) visual novels being different from other video games, and 3) Steins;Gate probably being more known as an anime in the west.

 

[Mikegamer0608]

You can try again since he's public domain

You know I completely forgot about that. I’ll bring that up next time if I see them again.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Now people expect every Third Party under the sun and with Nintendo characters been seen as icky, lame. "White" Bread choices.

And that's their loss because Nintendo isn't one of the biggest gaming companies for nothing.

But if you wanna be technical, Smash 4 also really leaned towards third-parties for its DLC.

3 returning veterans, 1 first-party newcomer and 3 third-parties.

It feels a bit less weighted but you gotta remember Ultimate had no veterans to pull from, and 75% of the newcomers still ended up being guests.

I think it's just going to be a natural occurrence in any Smash game's DLC cycle, as sad as it may sound for you.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

While Android 21 is technically a video game character, she would be just as complex and messy in licensing as any other Dragon Ball character because at the end of the day, she's still one of them. And if you're gonna go through all that trouble, why not aim for the main guy?

Another example is the KOTOR games because it’s part of Star Wars.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Smash 6 will bring us non-video game characters, like Batman and Elsa.
Smash 7 will bring us real life figures, like Napoleon and Gordon Ramsey.
Smash 8 will bring us people who don't even exist.
Smash 9 will bring us abstract concepts.

There will be no limit to who (or what) can be playable.

 

[Gengar84]

Smash 6 will bring us non-video game characters, like Batman and Elsa.
Smash 7 will bring us real life figures, like Napoleon and Gordon Ramsey.
Smash 8 will bring us people who don't even exist.
Smash 9 will bring us abstract concepts.

There will be no limit to who (or what) can be playable.

Now I really want to see an abstract concept fighter.

 

[RouffWestie]

Hey guys, I had this really huge group debate with some people at my local video game & card shop today about 4th party characters joining Smash Bros but the central point was that the character had to have a huge impact in gaming in order to join Smash. Like for example someone was talking about Spider-man joining because of his entire history with Capcom's involvement with Marvel in creating the Marvel vs Capcom franchise plus the Spider-man games in general like Spider-man 2 (PS2, GCN, XBOX) and the recent Marvel's Spider-man (Playstation) franchise and Marvel Rivals and some other people obviously brought in characters like Goku and Naruto because of the their franchise's Budokai Tenkaichi series along with Goku's games dating back all the way to the Famicom system and the Naruto Ninja Storm Series making a huge impact in gaming. They believe Smash Bros should evolve to celebrate gaming with impactful 4th party characters.

Any thoughts?

Mii Fighters. They need to just use Mii Fighters. Their entire introduction advertised the fact that you could play as literally any character you create, even beyond fictional characters.

 

[Pupp135]

Hey guys, I had this really huge group debate with some people at my local video game & card shop today about 4th party characters joining Smash Bros but the central point was that the character had to have a huge impact in gaming in order to join Smash. Like for example someone was talking about Spider-man joining because of his entire history with Capcom's involvement with Marvel in creating the Marvel vs Capcom franchise plus the Spider-man games in general like Spider-man 2 (PS2, GCN, XBOX) and the recent Marvel's Spider-man (Playstation) franchise and Marvel Rivals and some other people obviously brought in characters like Goku and Naruto because of the their franchise's Budokai Tenkaichi series along with Goku's games dating back all the way to the Famicom system and the Naruto Ninja Storm Series making a huge impact in gaming. They believe Smash Bros should evolve to celebrate gaming with impactful 4th party characters.

Any thoughts?

I’d prefer to keep the SSB series exclusive to video game characters, but non-video game characters being added wouldn’t be a deal breaker for me. Also, the two most popular SSB fan games have non-video game characters in them, and I enjoy playing the games. If we do end up getting non-video game characters, I guess I’ll have another character to add to my most wanted list.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

If mii fighters come back i want to see some of the FNAF animatronics getting them.

 

[Laniv]

Smash 6 will bring us non-video game characters, like Batman and Elsa.
Smash 7 will bring us real life figures, like Napoleon and Gordon Ramsey.
Smash 8 will bring us people who don't even exist.
Smash 9 will bring us abstract concepts.

There will be no limit to who (or what) can be playable.

And somehow, they'll still find excuses to not have any Black characters.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I don't want 4th parties, but I do have 1 exception to the "they're not allowed to show up in any capacity" rule: If we get Marvel Vs. Capcom music I don't want the Marvel character themes to be excluded for no reason other than they're named "Theme of [X CHARACTER]".

A Marvel Vs. Capcom stage could get by with just the MvC2 stage themes and maybe some Capcom character themes, but missing out on songs like Theme of Doctor Strange, Theme of Ghost Rider, and Theme of Captain America would be such a waste.

 

[Slartibartfast]

I've been wondering, what would reasonably be the size of the next roster if the next Smash is a normal entry (no Everyone is Here Deluxe and no "reboot") that focused on reworking some old fighters, adding new (and old) modes, includes newcomers, and obviously cuts some characters. Basically like the jump from Melee to Brawl and Brawl to Sm4sh. Maybe 60-ish characters? Brawl had around 40 characters if you include the transformations separately and Sm4sh around 50 in the base roster, so maybe it would scale upwards.

 

[SubspaceJigglypuff]

While I also don't expect Sakurai to break his One Rule and allow "fourth parties" in, this is more or less the mindset people had back when Snake was revealed. And yet Smash has only grown bigger and more interesting since.

Naturally, it would lose its current soul if we cross that line but who's to say it would be worse? Sure, it would be HELL for speculation but what about outside of it? People who don't spend time either speculating or gatekeeping might see endless possibilities rather than eternal suffering.

The biggest problem is that, why does it have to be Smash specifically that houses Goku or whoever? Why specifically the game whose main point of appeal is being a Nintendo/video game crossover? That's the problem with the idea, there's no pressing reason to add 4th parties. Smash is not hurting for valid video game chars, and it won't be for a long time. What problem does Smash have that adding 4th parties would solve? Especially when Smash's role as a wide-scale gaming hub is valuable for the industry. If u remove that, you leave a massive void in the gaming world - again, for what?

And it wouldn't just be speculation that suffers, it'd be tryna getting video game characters in at all. If Goku, Darth Vader, Hello Kitty, etc. are on the table, then RIP the chances of most not yet included important gaming characters, 'cause you know the masses'll spam request significantly bigger non VG characters; those "limitless possibilities" become a lot more limited. Some people already complain about Nintendo characters getting shafted, but they're still very much eligible to get in; now imagine instead, most of the industry is unviable. Where would the ppl wanting the mass gaming spotlight Smash provides go?

Also plat. fighters are a genre now. If someone wants Goku in Smash, nothing stopping companies from making their own platfighter that specifically focuses on anime. It dosen't have to be Smash. Would the non-vg playing masses be upset if Smash opened up the floodgates? You're right, probably not, but these people are not the audience for Smash. Their input on Smash shouldn't be prioritized over the gaming world's.

 

[Perkilator]

I've been wondering, what would reasonably be the size of the next roster if the next Smash is a normal entry (no Everyone is Here Deluxe and no "reboot") that focused on reworking some old fighters, adding new (and old) modes, includes newcomers, and obviously cuts some characters. Basically like the jump from Melee to Brawl and Brawl to Sm4sh. Maybe 60-ish characters? Brawl had around 40 characters if you include the transformations separately and Sm4sh around 50 in the base roster, so maybe it would scale upwards.

I think around 50-60 characters at launch would be a reasonable number.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I’m a bit of a hypocrite because I don’t want fourth party characters as speculation would become unbearable but if it were to happen I would be so so unbearable about the prospect of Scrooge McDuck joining it’s not even funny. I also think third party characters have made speculation more annoying but I also recognize that “speculation annoyance” shouldn’t be a reason not to want things as you kinda sign up for the seven circles of strawmen hell when you’re on a gaming forum. Either way, it’s not a particularly relevant discussion for the time being considering Sakurai’s comments on the matter.

 

[fogbadge]

Funny you mention some of those characters like Android 21 or someone like Shrek because those people said they would recognize them as joke characters and didn’t take characters like them seriously. The Debate had characters thrown around like Spider-man, Batman, Goku, Naruto, etc. Funny enough I brought up Popeye in the discussion because of his history with Nintendo but I was shot down because he’s not relevant in today’s gaming culture

I think that kinda proves they’re more interested in the characters themselves rather than gaming culture. There’s nothing wrong with advocating for characters you love but the reasons people paint them as gets a little absurd. Especially when you consider the important parts of gaming history that get little to no attention

Smash 8 will bring us people who don't even exist.

I got some bad news for you