Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Yamat08]

like i said we did talk about how practical it would be for them to be together. also speak for yourself i call them B&K

Yeah, it honestly does irk me when people refer to the Fighter as just "Banjo". Anyone who's played the first game knows damn well that Kazooie was the one doing all the work. Banjo-Tooie was a little bit better about the duo dynamic, but it was still far from being just Banjo's game (Kazooie was right to say that the sequel should've been called "Banjo-Kazooie-Tooie"). That said, I'm quite happy that, officially, the name of the Smash Fighter acknowledges both characters.

 

[Gengar84]

I just finished episode 6 of Arcane and I think it is probably the best media I’ve ever seen based on a video game. Going in, I had absolutely no knowledge about any of the characters or story in League of Legends other than their appearance thanks to looking up images of the characters a few times. I love both Vi and Jinx as characters and the story is really good so far. I would go so far as to say that the show is making me a fan of the series and I’d love to see either Vi or Jinx in Smash.

It’s funny because I just the Sonic 2 movie this weekend and told my friend that I thought it was probably my favorite video game based movie I’ve ever seen. Jim Carey is my favorite actor ever and I thought the portrayal of all the Sonic characters was great even if the movie had some dumb moments like the wedding scene. It was a toss up between that and the first Mortal Kombat movie but I can say that I believe that Arcane has both of them beat now as far as my personal favorite video game based media.

 

[UberPyro64]

I just finished episode 6 of Arcane and I think it is probably the best media I’ve ever seen based on a video game. Going in, I had absolutely no knowledge about any of the characters or story in League of Legends other than their appearance thanks to looking up images of the characters a few times. I love both Vi and Jinx as characters and the story is really good so far. I would go so far as to say that the show is making me a fan of the series and I’d love to see either Vi or Jinx in Smash.

It’s funny because just this weekend I saw the Sonic 2 movie and told my friend that I thought it was probably my favorite video game based movie I’ve ever seen. Jim Carey is my favorite actor ever and I thought the portrayal of all the Sonic characters was great even if the movie had some dumb moments like the wedding scene. It was a toss up between that and the first Mortal Kombat movie but I can say that I believe that Arcane has both of them beat now as far as my personal favorite video game based media.

Yeah, that's similarly how I feel. It's good to see so many recent quality video game adaptions. I feel like before, the first Mortal Kombat film was the only thing that people thought was a solid adaptation, but even that had a pretty mixed reception. Now we have Arcane, Castlevania, Detective Pikachu, and the Sonic movies. It feels like the video game adaptation curse has been broken. I hope the Mario movie lives up to the hype!

Also, yes, I would love to see Jinx or Vi in Smash. I'm primarily supporting Jinx since she's one of the most popular characters in the franchise in general, but I'd be absolutely down for Vi as well.

 

[Quillion]

I haven't seen the Sonic 2 movie, but I personally thought the first Sonic movie was a solid film but a bad Sonic adaptation. At least Detective Pikachu felt like something that could plausibly happen in the Pokémon universe, far removed from any Trainer business.

I'll probably check out the Sonic 2 movie to see if that changes, though.

 

[Gengar84]

Yeah, that's similarly how I feel. It's good to see so many recent quality video game adaptions. I feel like before, the first Mortal Kombat film was the only thing that people thought was a solid adaptation, but even that had a pretty mixed reception. Now we have Arcane, Castlevania, Detective Pikachu, and the Sonic movies. It feels like the video game adaptation curse has been broken. I hope the Mario movie lives up to the hype!

Also, yes, I would love to see Jinx or Vi in Smash. I'm primarily supporting Jinx since she's one of the most popular characters in the franchise in general, but I'd be absolutely down for Vi as well.

I honestly had no idea who Vi was before watching this show. I knew Jinx because a lot of people talk about her. I’m sure I saw a picture of Vi when I looked up all the characters but pictures don’t always do a character justice. I think Vi is probably my favorite character in the show but Jinx is great too. Before watching Arcane, my favorite LoL characters were Nocturne and Kha’Zix, just going by their designs.

 

[MasterCheef]

I honestly had no idea who Vi was before watching this show. I knew Jinx because a lot of people talk about her. I’m sure I saw a picture of Vi when I looked up all the characters but pictures don’t always do a character justice. I think Vi is probably my favorite character in the show but Jinx is great too. Before watching Arcane, my favorite LoL characters were Nocturne and Kha’Zix, just going by their designs.

would you support _ Ahri _ if she got in?

 

[UberPyro64]

would you support _ Ahri _ if she got in?

I'd be alright with it, but she's not currently in Arcane, so I wouldn't be all that excited for her inclusion as I would be for Vi or Jinx.

 

[Quillion]

Just wondering: how popular is League in Japan anyway?

 

[Chuderz]

My ideal Smash competitor would be a Shonen Jump + other anime themed one by Bamco. The problem I think it runs into is Dragon Ball for a multitude of reasons. It has the obligation of being the Mario equivalent series but it can easily be overdone. Then there are the characters. Goku and Vegeta are musts but are they both transforming characters? That problem actually extends to other franchises as well. Then do you stick exclusively to Z or to do you incorporate Super? Both Super and GT?

It's quite a conundrum from a design perspective. It actually leads me to think that this is why this very obvious moneymaker hasn't been capitalized on in a serious way yet. You have the license and the perfect team to do it in-house but yet they haven't done anything with the concept other than a DS game 15 years ago. Obviously they didn't have their Smash experience then but still it's such an obvious pitch at this point. I just hope if it actually happens it gets the budget and developmental resources it deserves.

 

[Sucumbio]

How would they rework uprising without a touch screen? Genuine curiosity not saying it couldn't happen...

 

[Quillion]

How would they rework uprising without a touch screen? Genuine curiosity not saying it couldn't happen...

Aiming with right stick is obvious. Maybe they can map the powers to D-pad.

 

[UberPyro64]

Just wondering: how popular is League in Japan anyway?

From what I understand, it's one of the few regions in the world where it's not all that popular. Once again showing, for the most part, Japan likes Japanese video games almost exclusively.

 

[Gengar84]

I'd be alright with it, but she's not currently in Arcane, so I wouldn't be all that excited for her inclusion as I would be for Vi or Jinx.

My thoughts pretty much exactly. All I know about Ahri is what she looks like, which is admittedly pretty cool like almost every League of Legends character. I would prefer Jinx or Vi because I actually know them now as characters beyond just their designs and both are great. I’m also enjoying Caitlyn from Arcane but she doesn’t seem like she’s quite as important of a character as Jinx or Vi. Silco is another great character but it looks like he’s exclusive to the show. I’m only on episode 6 so no spoilers please.

There are some champions I’d be hyped for despite knowing nothing about them. These would mostly be the darker nonhuman characters like Kha’Zix, Nocturne, Cho’Gath, Rek’Sai, Skarner, and Thresh. While I think almost every LoL character is cool, characters like these tend to be my favorites. Smash is also lacking in nonhuman characters that aren’t cartoony. The only one we really have right now is Ridley so a character like one of these would give Smash something very unique.

Here’s a question for any League of Legends fans out there: Is there any item that could work similar to an Assist Trophy or Pokeball in Smash to summon various champions if a character did make it in? It seems like the perfect franchise for an item like that but I’m not sure if one makes sense in-universe. It seems like the technology should exist for that based on everything I’ve seen so far with Hex Gate.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Just wondering: how popular is League in Japan anyway?

It’s not huge, but it exists? It’s not exactly a flop but it’s far from as big as it is in say China, South Korea, or the west. That being said, Pokemon Unite is doing well over there and that’s basically League with Pokémon. Heck, Tencent is behind both.

 

[Gengar84]

I’m really hoping the next Smash game has a good distribution of Japanese and western characters. There are so many characters I love from both Japan and the west that it’s kind of a shame that we barely get any western content in Smash. Understandable, due to Japanese properties being easier to negotiate and Sakurai/Nintendo being more familiar with them, but disappointing nonetheless.

 

[Diddy Kong]

It’s not huge, but it exists? It’s not exactly a flop but it’s far from as big as it is in say China, South Korea, or the west. That being said, Pokemon Unite is doing well over there and that’s basically League with Pokémon. Heck, Tencent is behind both.

Playing Pokemon Unite a little made me sort of want Pikachu to be inspired by the Unite moveset in Smash, it would be a better fit for the specials at least, I also think the tail swing with the little spark is cute and fitting.

 

[Gengar84]

Playing Pokemon Unite a little made me sort of want Pikachu to be inspired by the Unite moveset in Smash, it would be a better fit for the specials at least, I also think the tail swing with the little spark is cute and fitting.

Speaking of that, let’s assume a League of Legends character or another MOBA character makes it into Smash. Is there anything that character can bring to work in the mechanics of the genre into a platform fighter like Smash? I like how Hero has an MP meter, and even though it is confusing to use in battle, his down special was a cool idea. Inkling, Steve and Kazuya are three other examples. I came up with an idea for Sarah Kerrigan and Bill Rizer that could follow the same type of idea. What kinds of gimmicks or traits could a MOBA character bring over while still fitting into Smash? The gimmicks don’t have to be as complicated as Steve’s, and in most cases shouldn’t be, but I think having little touches like that can often make characters feel more interesting.

 

[Quillion]

Speaking of that, let’s assume a League of Legends character or another MOBA character makes it into Smash. Is there anything that character can bring to work in the mechanics of the genre into a platform fighter like Smash? I like how Hero has an MP meter, and even though it is confusing to use in battle, his down special was a cool idea. Inkling, Steve and Kazuya are three other examples. I came up with an idea for Sarah Kerrigan and Bill Rizer that could follow the same type of idea. What kinds of gimmicks or traits could a MOBA character bring over while still fitting into Smash? The gimmicks don’t have to be as complicated as Steve’s, and in most cases shouldn’t be, but I think having little touches like that can often make characters feel more interesting.

If the only way to include a MOBA or RTS character is to make them overcomplicated like several other Smash 4-on newcomers, then I'd say don't include them at all.

They should absolutely design such a character so that they select the best aspects of them to fit in Smash like the 64/Melee newcomers, not cram as much moves and mechanics as they can possibly fit in.

 

[Gengar84]

If the only way to include a MOBA or RTS character is to make them overcomplicated like several other Smash 4-on newcomers, then I'd say don't include them at all.

They should absolutely design such a character so that they select the best aspects of them to fit in Smash like the 64/Melee newcomers, not cram as much moves and mechanics as they can possibly fit in.

You absolutely don’t need to reference the mechanics of the genre in those characters, I just think it’s a fun bonus. Pretty much every character could be made to work with a much simpler moveset if that’s what they decided to go with but I personally find gimmicks to be interesting in certain cases.

 

[Quillion]

You absolutely don’t need to reference the mechanics of the genre in those characters, I just think it’s a fun bonus. Pretty much every character could be made to work with a much simpler moveset if that’s what they decided to go with but I personally find gimmicks to be interesting in certain cases.

The gimmicks were good in the Brawl newcomers IMO. It's when Smash 4 decided to incorporate UI elements into them that they got bad.

 

[Gengar84]

The gimmicks were good in the Brawl newcomers IMO. It's when Smash 4 decided to incorporate UI elements into them that they got bad.

That’s just a matter of opinion. I personally don’t mind having a few characters here and there with more complex gimmicks.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Speaking of that, let’s assume a League of Legends character or another MOBA character makes it into Smash. Is there anything that character can bring to work in the mechanics of the genre into a platform fighter like Smash? I like how Hero has an MP meter, and even though it is confusing to use in battle, his down special was a cool idea. Inkling, Steve and Kazuya are three other examples. I came up with an idea for Sarah Kerrigan and Bill Rizer that could follow the same type of idea. What kinds of gimmicks or traits could a MOBA character bring over while still fitting into Smash? The gimmicks don’t have to be as complicated as Steve’s, and in most cases shouldn’t be, but I think having little touches like that can often make characters feel more interesting.

I don't have a lot of MOBA experience other than watching some Pokemon Unite streams, but the main things I've seen that make sense are move cooldowns and level-ups.

I assume the only moves Smash would put on cooldowns are specials (or maybe a super-type move akin to Terry), and that would probably be balanced by making those specials stronger than they otherwise would be. The idea seems potentially frustrating for both the player and the opponent if they don't get it just right. There could be an in-between, where you are rewarded with a stronger version of the special if you don't use it for a while. It doesn't feel very MOBA-like to me, but it seems more enjoyable than just not having a bunch of moves for most of the match.

Level-ups would make the character snowball, kind of like Lucario but it rewards you for playing well instead of losing. It would make the character exponentially better in the hands of a good player, and I don't know how you balance that unless every character does the same.

Personally, I think a MOBA character would work best as a normal character with maybe a super move akin to KO punch that charges really slowly. Even that could encourage the player to camp, so I don't know.

 

[Diddy Kong]

The gimmicks were good in the Brawl newcomers IMO. It's when Smash 4 decided to incorporate UI elements into them that they got bad.

Honestly not all of them had overly reliance on gimmicks, even if Smash 4 newcomers where amongst my least favorite.

I mean Greninja doesn't have any gimmick at all honestly, neither did Bowser Jr., and maybe Little Mac can be counted amongst them, as KO Punch is quite straightforward. Rosalina isn't really too gimmicky , and is a sort of natural evolution to what Ice Climbers did, I don't really view them as all that different.

Outside of them, yeah, it got pretty bad.

 

[RodNutTakin]

So I decided to make some substantial changes to my prediction roster. Thanks to the feedback of both dream1ng and SPEN18 , I was able to make some important changes in order to make what I believe to be my finalized version of my prediction roster (at least, for the time being.)

After reading over both of your responses a few days back, I began taking your suggestions and comments into consideration and planned out what I could do to address this feedback, which quickly resulted in the following plan of action: I would take two of the five third-parties I chose for the base game, and move them to the DLC lineup, at the expense of getting rid of two of the characters I already had in said lineup.
Not only would this reduce the number of third-parties in the base game to a more manageable number of three, but it would also open up two more first-party slots, which I could easily dedicate them towards being characters that would get added to the roster solely on popular request.
I will put my explanations inside multiple spoiler tags for the sake of convenience, and to make my post less bloat-y.

Spoiler: Moving two of my third-party choices to the DLC section

Of course, planning this all out in my head would basically be a three-step process here. First, I would have to decide which two of the five third-party newcomers in the base roster would work just as well as DLC, and I feel that I have a good answer to that question; I could easily repurpose Zero and Ryu Hayabusa as DLC fighters, thanks to both characters having the easy potential to bring a respectable amount of content with them.
Zero would be able to pull content from both the MMX and MMZ series (and knowing Capcom's track record, they would be more than eager to pour in a lot of content for newcomers), while Ryu Hayabusa would be able to have a Terry situation, where he brings in content from both his home series of Ninja Gaiden, and also content from Dead or Alive, which he appears as a major recurring character in.
This would leave Bomberman, Arle, and Iori as the three third-party newcomers in Smash 6's base game, which I feel is a perfectly acceptable lineup; Bomberman would be the biggest of the three, being a long-standing request for Smash not unlike Mega Man before him, Arle would be a character that would please mainly the Japanese crowd while not being totally unheard of elsewhere, Iori would be the one character I could see Sakurai picking out completely for himself while also appealing further to SNK and fighting game fans in the process, and overall, all three would be characters I feel that could be put in the base product without being too costly, especially in Iori's case.

Spoiler: Cutting two of my original DLC slots

However, moving Zero and Ryu to DLC would require the removal of some of my other picks to free up space. I wouldn't consider my removed choices here to be characters I suddenly find unreasonable to be in Smash, especially since we obviously have no idea how the next game will handle DLC length-wise, but you can consider these characters I booted here to be two "honorable mentions" if Smash 6 at least has as many DLC newcomers as Ultimate did (11-12).
The first choice I made was to replace Dante with Zero. Easy enough, considering that both are Capcom characters, but with Zero also not having to worry about dealing with any Mature rating-related complications on top of being an easy way to expand the Mega Man series representation in Smash. The second decision, however, was a bit harder for me to make, but I ultimately chose to axe the second Microsoft DLC slot, on the basis of not wanting to have my prediction boil down to "they'll totally hit the exact same notes they did for Ultimate". I still think Doomguy has an edge over Chief and Crash when it comes to Microsoft's library of characters, but I don't mean this to say that I think those two are out of the running, either. Either way, axing this second slot is how I give Hayabusa some room in the DLC.

Spoiler: Choosing the two popular-demand first-parties

Now for the most tricky part, which would be finding two characters from Nintendo's cast that I feel could be added on nothing but popularity within the fanbase. Before I discuss the two I actually did pick, I'll go over some choices that I consider to be runner-ups in this department.
-Normally, Geno would instantly qualify for one of these slots, but alas, Geno isn't normal. After what happened in Ultimate, while Nintendo and Sakurai are likely very much aware of Geno demand, I feel that it's become clear that it's not worth trying to fish the character out of Square-Enix's depths when they have a lot more profitable options than him. It probably hurts some of you for me to say this, but I feel that this is the ugly truth for the character, which is a shame since Mario RPGs as a whole have become a dying species.
-Krystal was a semi-popular Brawl-era request, and she was actually considered for that game as well, but I feel that the popularity for the character trailed off a while ago--besides being an Assist Trophy in Ultimate, Krystal has had some negative stigmas attached to her, between being an easy target for people to make fun of when it comes to certain fandoms, and also being associated with some controversial entries in the Star Fox series (other than Star Fox Zero, which is its own can of worms). That, and I feel that she has perpetually lived in Wolf's shadow within the Smash community as well, since most fans seemed to be satisfied with him as the third Star Fox character in Brawl, and the outcry from him getting cut in Smash 4 eclipsed any outcry over Krystal not making the cut anyways, from what I remember seeing. This could potentially change, however, if the "3D action game remake" project Bandai-Namco is rumored to help Nintendo on turns out to be Star Fox Assault or something similar.
-Characters like Lyn and Hector have been names that have popped up frequently when it comes to more FE characters represented in Smash, but I feel that the hard truth is that unless a popular FE character could serve as an Echo or semi-clone to someone else on the roster, they're going to get passed up for whoever's the protagonist of the latest installment that Intelligent Systems is going to force on recommend to Sakurai.
-Ashley is a runner-up for similar reasons to Krystal, being an Assist Trophy character who has both a notable fandom and hatedom that I feel is overshadowed by something else that fans want more; in this case, I feel that the demand for Ashley has diminished in favor of the demand for more Wario Land-related content in Smash. Ever since Ultimate did barely anything to remedy this issue that people already had gripes about back in Smash 4, I feel that the want for Ashley has subsided for people just wanting anything substantial for the Land side of Wario's series, and I honestly can't blame them. I could probably see Captain Syrup rising over Ashley in the future if Smash 6 does nothing to remedy the Wario Land issue like Ultimate before it.
-Tom Nook is a weird case for me. There's no denying that he's a popular Animal Crossing character, but the one thing that stops me from adding him is Isabelle already being present on the roster. It would feel incredibly awkward if there were three characters that had the Villager framework, if you ask me, mainly just because unlike Fox or Marth's cases, I feel that the Villager should remain relatively unique on the roster, and adding in a second semi-clone for him would make him no longer really stand out in my eyes. Maybe you could cycle Isabelle out for Nook, but I feel that would be more effort than it would be worth doing, if you ask me.
-Out of all of the characters I've listed here, I feel that Bandanna Waddle Dee is easily the "third place" runner-up here. He has a lot going for him that under normal circumstances would make me have easily given him a slot, but under the current circumstances, he's in a weird limbo thanks to Sakurai being very peculiar about how he handles Kirby's content in Smash. It's been discussed to death, but the fact that the Kumazaki era of Kirby games has gotten table scraps so far in Smash makes me feel that the bar for Bandanna Dee is artifically a lot higher than it would be normally. I would love to be proven wrong, but as of now, I doubt Sakurai will budge much with how he treats Kirby content he didn't make or supervise.
As for all the characters from smaller series that I'm not listing here, I feel that the IP revival slot is pretty much dedicated for one of these types of picks. On a similar note, while I like the idea of Diskun too much to get rid of him from my prediction, you can treat his slot as a general "weird legacy character" slot if you'd like.

So, after reviewing all of the major Nintendo universes in Smash, I settled on two characters that I felt were prime-fit for being included solely on popularity; I have decided to choose Waluigi and Porky Minch as these two characters.
-When it came to answering the question "After Ridley and K. Rool, who was the one Nintendo character that had the most buzz about not being in Smash?", it's clear that despite the controversy and backlash that ensued afterwards, Waluigi was undoubtedly the one snub from Ultimate that generated the most buzz on the Internet. The months following Ultimate's reveal, it was practically impossible to go a single day without someone mentioning or joking about Waluigi being excluded from the playable roster (culminating in the Piranha Plant reveal in November leaving everyone confused and bewildered), and this is on top of the character having been a popular in-joke in Nintendo's fanbase for both the years prior and the years following this. Even if Geno took up the mantle of being the hot topic among Mario characters afterwards, his own disconfirmation still had nowhere near the same ripple effect as Waluigi's did. Now, some may wonder why I've put Waluigi on here while excluding Bandanna Waddle Dee, even if it seems that Sakurai is prejudiced against both characters; That's because while I feel that Sakurai is somewhat reluctant to put Waluigi in at this point, especially after witnessing some of the snub backlash himself, I feel that it's still more likely for him to cave in and put Waluigi on the roster, than to give Kirby more representation from the games he didn't direct, sadly enough. Overall, I feel that Waluigi has become the new Ridley, being a character who seems to be arbitrarily excluded from a roster, but has the demand to power through said exclusion anyway.
-Continuing off this metaphor, we have Porky Minch as the new K. Rool in a sense, being a villain who hasn't seen much action in quite a long while, but is still a popular Smash request in spite of this fact. Throughout my time in the Ultimate speculation scene, one of the few first-party names that I kept hearing get brought up in discussion no matter the circumstances was Porky, and that was very much thanks to his peculiar absence in Ultimate, with there not being a lot of Mother antagonist-related Spirits in-game, including Porky himself, and the tipping point here was the Absolutely Safe Capsule spirit using the "empty" sprite for its artwork. In hindsight, I imagine that Porky's boss fight from Brawl was intended to return for Ultimate, but it couldn't make the cut in time, and that's why he is absent as a Spirit. However, said absence made him a very recurring, popular request for Ultimate's DLC, and these requests kept persisting even to the very end of the second Fighter's Pass. The EarthBound/Mother fandom is a very dedicated fandom, and their efforts have worked in their favor a lot in the past (at least, when it comes to everything but getting Mother 3 localized). So in conclusion, I imagine that things can once again work in their favor for Smash 6, and I feel that Porky is thus one of the likeliest "popular demand" candidates for the next installment.

Now that I have made and explained all my changes I have decided to make to my prediction roster, here is what the roster itself looks like now!

As with last time, please feel free to give me any further feedback on my roster, and especially the new changes I have made to it.

 

[Quillion]

Honestly not all of them had overly reliance on gimmicks, even if Smash 4 newcomers where amongst my least favorite.

I mean Greninja doesn't have any gimmick at all honestly, neither did Bowser Jr., and maybe Little Mac can be counted amongst them, as KO Punch is quite straightforward. Rosalina isn't really too gimmicky , and is a sort of natural evolution to what Ice Climbers did, I don't really view them as all that different.

Outside of them, yeah, it got pretty bad.

I'm still in favor of consolidating KO Punch and Cloud's Limit, and Terry's Desperation into a universal "super move" meter given to all characters. Would give all characters new toys without taking away from their base.

 

[MasterCheef]

I’m really hoping the next Smash game has a good distribution of Japanese and western characters. There are so many characters I love from both Japan and the west that it’s kind of a shame that we barely get any western content in Smash. Understandable, due to Japanese properties being easier to negotiate and Sakurai/Nintendo being more familiar with them, but disappointing nonetheless.

TBF _ i really don't think it is much harder to negotiate w/ western companies. More likely Shuntaro Furukawa just doesn't care to negotiate with them except Microsoft for Smash. I really believe Ultimate is still our best chance to get Master Chief and Ahri. at least between SSBU and the next Smash Title.

 

[ahemtoday]

My least favorite aspect of more modern official movesets is the... bizarrely same-y sort of uniqueness they have, and how unnecessary it often feels as an inclusion. Like, hm, does this character have something that resembles them getting a stat boost and/or powerful move at high damage? Put it on them. Now.

Most of this stuff is based on mechanics that exist in the source material, but I take the view that a character should be only as complex as they need to be to feel like themselves, and I am thoroughly unconvinced these are necessary for that. Kazuya already has wild eight-way tilts and grab camera changes and you even messed with the hitstun; is a Rage Drive really necessary to make him feel like a Tekken character? Is a big stat-booster wing really the simplest way you could think of to represent Sephiroth's One-Winged Angel bit? Why in the name of whoever did you interpet Arsene as working like that?

 

[Gengar84]

I don't have a lot of MOBA experience other than watching some Pokemon Unite streams, but the main things I've seen that make sense are move cooldowns and level-ups.

I assume the only moves Smash would put on cooldowns are specials (or maybe a super-type move akin to Terry), and that would probably be balanced by making those specials stronger than they otherwise would be. The idea seems potentially frustrating for both the player and the opponent if they don't get it just right. There could be an in-between, where you are rewarded with a stronger version of the special if you don't use it for a while. It doesn't feel very MOBA-like to me, but it seems more enjoyable than just not having a bunch of moves for most of the match.

Level-ups would make the character snowball, kind of like Lucario but it rewards you for playing well instead of losing. It would make the character exponentially better in the hands of a good player, and I don't know how you balance that unless every character does the same.

Personally, I think a MOBA character would work best as a normal character with maybe a super move akin to KO punch that charges really slowly. Even that could encourage the player to camp, so I don't know.

I think something could be made to work with the cooldown and still be fun. If it’s going to be a strict cooldown that doesn’t let you use the move at all until it is fully charged, I would limit it to just one special. That way you still reference the mechanics without making the whole moveset gimmicky. Wario and ROB basically already use cooldowns for one of their specials so this wouldn’t be too out there. It would likely have a much more clear visual indicator than Wario’s waft as well.

The other option is to use something similar to Cloud’s Limit Break that powers up whatever special you use once the cooldown is charged but you could still use a less flashy version without having to wait.

 

[Quillion]

My least favorite aspect of more modern official movesets is the... bizarrely same-y sort of uniqueness they have, and how unnecessary it often feels as an inclusion. Like, hm, does this character have something that resembles them getting a stat boost and/or powerful move at high damage? Put it on them. Now.

Most of this stuff is based on mechanics that exist in the source material, but I take the view that a character should be only as complex as they need to be to feel like themselves, and I am thoroughly unconvinced these are necessary for that. Kazuya already has wild eight-way tilts and grab camera changes and you even messed with the hitstun; is a Rage Drive really necessary to make him feel like a Tekken character? Is a big stat-booster wing really the simplest way you could think of to represent Sephiroth's One-Winged Angel bit? Why in the name of whoever did you interpet Arsene as working like that?

You know, combined with my "super move meter" idea for Smash, I'd also like to see the "stat boost" gimmicks be consolidated into a universal Shield B input for all characters too. It could work so that the stat boost would drain the super meter when activated.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

I think something could be made to work with the cooldown and still be fun. If it’s going to be a strict cooldown that doesn’t let you use the move at all until it is fully charged, I would limit it to just one special. That way you still reference the mechanics without making the whole moveset gimmicky. Wario and ROB basically already use cooldowns for one of their specials so this wouldn’t be too out there. It would likely have a much more clear visual indicator than Wario’s waft as well.

The other option is to use something similar to Cloud’s Limit Break that powers up whatever special you use once the cooldown is charged but you could still use a less flashy version without having to wait.

Yeah, that's fair. I was mostly thinking of the strict cooldown variation because that's how MOBAs seem to work, but these seem like good alternatives.

They could also pick a character like Ekko with their own unique thing and not worry about general MOBA mechanics. I just don't know enough to make any good suggestions in that department.

 

[Gengar84]

Yeah, that's fair. I was mostly thinking of the strict cooldown variation because that's how MOBAs seem to work, but these seem like good alternatives.

They could also pick a character like Ekko with their own unique thing and not worry about general MOBA mechanics. I just don't know enough to make any good suggestions in that department.

I’ve actually never played a MOBA myself and don’t have any intentions to. I’m not that great at games so competitive online games like that seem stressful. One of our best friends has been really into LoL for years though and I just finished season 1 of Arcane so I actually have an interest in its world and characters now. I just like when a character can have at least some small reference to their genre, especially if they are the first character of that genre in Smash.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I think Chase McCane could be the next Steve; a character from a popular series or brand, yet one that nobody expects to be in Smash.

 

[JOJONumber691]

I think Chase McCane could be the next Steve; a character from a popular series or brand, yet one that nobody expects to be in Smash.

LEGO makes him a weird character to choose, but I feel like if Sakurai can allow Dr. Kawashima or that Hidden Mickey, and he gets popular enough, then I could totally see him getting in under SEVERAL technicalities.

 

[Wonder Smash]

LEGO makes him a weird character to choose, but I feel like if Sakurai can allow Dr. Kawashima or that Hidden Mickey, and he gets popular enough, then I could totally see him getting in under SEVERAL technicalities.

This is a different case though, since Chase actually does come from a video game.

 

[dream1ng]

I think Chase McCane could be the next Steve; a character from a popular series or brand, yet one that nobody expects to be in Smash.

Well you're at a bit of an impasse with Chase, insofar as he wouldn't get in based on his own titles - they're not that huge - and he wouldn't get in to represent Lego, because Lego isn't a video game series. There's a video game branch to the brand, but that's the case for many IPs.

And that's assuming they even see a character from a series that didn't begin in games as eligible. It'd be like including Starkiller.

 

[Goombaic]

Here’s a question for any League of Legends fans out there: Is there any item that could work similar to an Assist Trophy or Pokeball in Smash to summon various champions if a character did make it in? It seems like the perfect franchise for an item like that but I’m not sure if one makes sense in-universe. It seems like the technology should exist for that based on everything I’ve seen so far with Hex Gate.

Not in-game, I'm pretty sure. The closest thing to an item like that are the champion shards that let you unlock a character or the capsules, which only exist in the menu and not in the actual game's world.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Well you're at a bit of an impasse with Chase, insofar as he wouldn't get in based on his own titles - they're not that huge - and he wouldn't get in to represent Lego, because Lego isn't a video game series. There's a video game branch to the brand, but that's the case for many IPs.

And that's assuming they even see a character from a series that didn't begin in games as eligible. It'd be like including Starkiller.

Nintendo published both of his games (which also featured Mario references), and that makes him different from others characters like Starkiller. It makes his appearance in Smash a lot more reasonable.

Also, he can represent LEGO but only with his own games, which is really all he needs.

 

[dream1ng]

Nintendo published both of his games (which also featured Mario references), and that makes him different from others characters like Starkiller. It makes his appearance in Smash a lot more reasonable.

Also, he can represent LEGO but only his own games, which is really all he needs.

It really doesn't make him different than another third-party in any appreciable way for Smash; Nintendo only published the Wii U version (and the 3DS game), not the Switch version, or the version for any platform. He's still third-party through and through.

Also, if he's only representing his Lego City Undercover games, those games need to have made a much bigger splash than they did to get a western third-party included in Smash. That's still a very high bar.

Plus, again, coming from a non-video game property, they may not even view him as eligible.

 

[Yamat08]

Really, if we're talking about non-video game franchises that had games published by Nintendo, I'd rather vouch for having Hamtaro in Smash.

 

[Chuderz]

Really, if we're talking about non-video game franchises that had games published by Nintendo, I'd rather vouch for having Hamtaro in Smash.

Hell yeah! Could like Assist Trophies be opened up to 4th party characters? Probably not but it's an interesting thought.

Honestly when we talk about companies with characters already in Smash getting more characters Disney will remain static with Kingdom Hearts being their only viable franchise. However... If I could have my way.... I think Revan would be sick... I'm fine with it not happening ever but if it did I'd be wowed.

The only true technicalities I could see tip-toeing around the video game characters from video game franchises (and sometimes video game accessories I guess in the case of ROB that everybody loves to invoke) only rule are Digimon and Hatsune Miku.