Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Opossum]

But as a Nintendo-centric pick that everyone is here is claiming that got Sora the edge in ballot, you have to admit a cult-classic like CT that defined itself on the Nintendo platforms would resonate more with Nintendo based audience than Kingdom Hearts which did the same but for Playstation instead.

Ask a random person on the street if they know Kingdom Hearts, and then do the same for Chrono Trigger.

For Kingdom Hearts you may actually get a few Yes answers. For Chrono Trigger you will instead get "I'm not interested in buying a watch, please go away."

 

[BuckleyTim]

Also I just think that even among the slice of fans that'd be in the know enough to know of the smash ballot we can't really predict them as a large group. Sure, we might think voting for sora or master chief or even 4th parties would be at the time ridiculous, but the average casual gamer doesn't really factor in impossibility so much as that they played the DS or 3ds game and thought kingdom hearts is awesome.

Subnote but you'd be surprised how often i hear characters like Naruto suggested to be in smash by casuals. It's why i predict that the barrier could be broken one day, even if for popular desire rather than it making sense.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

No see, Sora won due to Disney rigging the poll, and nobody's figured it out yet because the governmen-

 

[Gengar84]

But as a Nintendo-centric pick that everyone is here is claiming that got Sora the edge in ballot, you have to admit a cult-classic like CT that defined itself on the Nintendo platforms would resonate more with Nintendo based audience than Kingdom Hearts which did the same but for Playstation instead.

I’m not disagreeing with you that I’d have rather seen a Chrono Trigger character but it’s been out of the public eye so much that it’s largely faded from memory for most fans. Furthermore, a lot of fans that voted on the ballot were probably too young to have played Chrono Trigger at all. Since it hasn’t been brought to modern devices since the DS, it’s not really surprising at all that Sora outscored Crono.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Subnote but you'd be surprised how often i hear characters like Naruto suggested to be in smash by casuals. It's why i predict that the barrier could be broken one day, even if for popular desire rather than it making sense.

I think it would be more likely for Shonen Jump to make their own dedicated anime platform fighter. IIRC they have in the past on the DS, so there is precedent for how one would work.

That and they make a heck of a lot of arena fighters with their properties as well as a couple traditional. It wouldn't be that much of a branching out, it'd just be a question of who they pick to make it and is the result any good.

 

[Gengar84]

I think it would be more likely for Shonen Jump to make their own dedicated anime platform fighter. IIRC they have in the past on the DS, so there is precedent for how one would work.

That and they make a heck of a lot of arena fighters with their properties as well as a couple traditional. It wouldn't be that much of a branching out, it'd just be a question of who they pick to make it and is the result any good.

I’d love to see a general anime/manga crossover platformer that branched out beyond just Shonen Jump. There’s a ton of awesome matchups you could have if you expanded the scope. If Smash can have so many guest fighters, I think Jump game doing the same with its genre would be cool.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

I see where an argument can be made about the dicey nature of high fan demand for Sora when specifically confined inside Smash speculation. But that's not all of Smash's playerbase. I would not be surprised if Sora was very much comprised of casual ballot votes, in addition to the smaller number of speculators here who voted for him. Remember, at the time of 2015, Smash 4 gave reason to believe Nintendo-centric inclusions based on patterns we were seeing. Not everyone noticed those patterns, and not everyone stuck by that rule.

I don't think this excuses the ballot's shoddy design at all, but it's worth mentioning.

 

[BrawlX10]

In a way, Mii Costumes was a sign that selected character(s) may arrive as a fighter in the next one. Look at Inkling, King K Rool, Isabelle, and Chrom. They became a fighter. Heihachi though not a fighter, but his son Kazuya did and he was a stage background character. As for Rathalos, Black Knight, Akira, Majora's Mask (and The Moon) and Knuckles, they became an Assist Trophy. All Smash 4 Mii Costumes.

It's time.

 

[Laniv]

I cannot stress enough that Kingdom Hearts is like one of the most beloved video game franchises of all time. It doesn't take a genius to figure out how Sora placed first on the Smash Ballot.

I heard this somewhere and I'm not sure if this is true, but isn't Kingdom Hearts one of those franchises where it's pretty popular overseas, but utterly massive in Japan?

 

[Gengar84]

I heard this somewhere and I'm not sure if this is true, but isn't Kingdom Hearts one of those franchises where it's pretty popular overseas, but utterly massive in Japan?

You’d think it would be more popular in the west considering it’s a Disney crossover of western properties. It’s a cool mashup of Japanese original characters with western licensed characters. I do miss the Final Fantasy characters though. That was the main reason I got into Kingdom Hearts in the first place.

 

[fogbadge]

But as a Nintendo-centric pick that everyone is here is claiming that got Sora the edge in ballot, you have to admit a cult-classic like CT that defined itself on the Nintendo platforms would resonate more with Nintendo based audience than Kingdom Hearts which did the same but for Playstation instead.

Now it sounds like you think of Sora as a Sony all star

That framing just brings even more disbelief because then why Sora of all characters?

Waluigi, K.Rool, The Belmonts, Inklings, Chrom? Returning vets like Wolf? Even SE like Chrono and Black Mage. Those with actual Nintendo presence, Sora is the most Nintendo-centric pick at the time of Smash 4?

The games that came on Nintendo systems were the smaller niche side games that came to handhelds that even needed previous main entries to gain full context. The popular main numbered games where always on Playstation as an solid exclusive. The KH collections including all games from KH1 to DDD was the recent release at the time of Ballot and it was all Playstation Exclusive. There wasn't any strong connection between the KH and Nintendo at all. Sora was always a PS guy

To this day, we still don't even have a proper collection release on Nintendo systems unlike Playstation.

The King of Phantoms is one brought up sales numbers as a factor which i shot down as factor as it doesn't hold up.

Steve was said to be negotiated 5 years before his reveal which lines up strongly with the ballot. Even in 2015, he was strongly regarded favorite with the Minecraft boom going strong. I argue the connection of Nintendo fanbase and Minecraft greatly aligns much more than Kingdom Hearts. I don't like using fan polls as sources but even those polls Steve usually topped Sora on the charts. No doubt he dominated the ballot.

Theory territory but Bayonetta was probably picked the "ballot winner" at the time because Nintendo couldn't secure Steve in time for Smash 4 DLC so was saved for Ultimate which would explain why Vergeben and his sources picked up the info of Minecraft content coming to Smash but he couldn't pinpoint what because Negotiations took longer than expected even during Ultimate season.

Very likely Steve was going to final major pick ending off Ultimate DLC as true winner when the next pass was still 5 until Sakurai met the Disney VP and retroactively added Sora not a winner but as the unexpected surprise that most would never see coming/would happen finale. Only adding the "ballot" winner spin to drum icing on hype cake.

let’s look at those three “niche side games” shall we. first we have Chain of Memories, a game which provides the context needed for KH2. then we have 358/2 Days a game starring a very popular character from the series. and finally Dream Drop Distance a game that we know was made to be the prequel to the long awaited KH3. Calling them niche is harsh

another thing to remember is how the smash fandom reacted to Steve. It was split the fandom apart more than usual. which rather suggested that despite Minecraft being the most successful game ever the fandom wasn’t sold on the idea of him being in smash. I do recall people saying that while they liked Minecraft they didn’t care for Steve. Whereas most KH fans like Sora

 

[BritishGuy54]

I do wonder if people voted on the ballot to sneak other content in or cause things that haven’t planned out.

It seems like some people voted for or in hopes they’d get a new game or something.

Likewise, I wonder if got votes because they wanted to see Donald and Goofy too, which didn’t happen.

Anyhow, it’s nice the fans seemingly got what they want for Ultimate. But I’m not sure how they’re going to stack up for a new game. I can see ‘fan demand’ take a back seat next time, being more supplemental for a character’s inclusion rather than the be all end all next game.

 

[Gengar84]

Now it sounds like you think of Sora as a Sony all star



let’s look at those three “niche side games” shall we. first we have Chain of Memories, a game which provides the context needed for KH2. then we have 358/2 Days a game starring a very popular character from the series. and finally Dream Drop Distance a game that we know was made to be the prequel to the long awaited KH3. Calling them niche is harsh

another thing to remember is how the smash fandom reacted to Steve. It was split the fandom apart more than usual. which rather suggested that despite Minecraft being the most successful game ever the fandom wasn’t sold on the idea of him being in smash. I do recall people saying that while they liked Minecraft they didn’t care for Steve. Whereas most KH fans like Sora

Yay, I’m in the minority again! I love the gameplay of Kingdom Hearts and a lot of the original characters are awesome but I’ve always been meh on Sora himself. I think I’m just not huge on his general character archetype. I don’t really hate him or anything but I don’t particularly care about him either. Still, I realize I’m in the minority here and that most people like Sora quite a bit and I don’t really question how he could have won the ballot.

In my case, I voted for because the SNES DKC games were some of my favorite games ever (particularly DKC2) and I’ve always loved the kremlings. It would have been cool to see him in a new mainline DKC game but that wasn’t really my reason for voting for him. I just like the character and series and I thought Smash could use more villains (I still do but they’re making progress at least).

 

[PersonAngelo53]

I think if you watch that video all the way through you will accidentally remove all surprise that any smash announcement could give you. They could announce literally anything for smash at that point and your reaction would be "yeah but i already visualized it in my head and thus the novelty is gone.... Pass."

Not really, plenty of unexpected potential characters not in that video. Like Saber from Fate, Monokuma from Danganronpa, a The legend of heroes character etc. There is still potential not talk about much characters that could be surprising announcements in smash.

 

[BrawlX10]

I do wonder if people voted on the ballot to sneak other content in or cause things that haven’t planned out.

It seems like some people voted for or in hopes they’d get a new game or something.

Likewise, I wonder if got votes because they wanted to see Donald and Goofy too, which didn’t happen.

Anyhow, it’s nice the fans seemingly got what they want for Ultimate. But I’m not sure how they’re going to stack up for a new game. I can see ‘fan demand’ take a back seat next time, being more supplemental for a character’s inclusion rather than the be all end all next game.

I think it makes sense to bring Sora back in the base game as he's the balloot winner tbh I do wonder if they'll bring back Hollow Bastion or add a new KH stage like Twilight Town along with him in the next game.

 

[Gengar84]

Not really, plenty of unexpected potential characters not in that video. Like Saber from Fate, Monokuma from Danganronpa, a The legend of heroes character etc. There is still potential not talk about much characters that could be surprising announcements in smash.

I bet you most of my top 20 list isn’t discussed in that video. I don’t really have time to watch a 7 hour video but I can tell by the thumbnail.

 

[PersonAngelo53]

I bet you most of my top 20 list isn’t discussed in that video. I don’t really have time to watch a 7 hour video but I can tell by the thumbnail.

Yeah no battle toads or Jinx or Fulgore etc a good amount missing from your list. Just goes to show more that there is still characters that could catch people of guard if they get revealed.

 

[Gengar84]

Yeah no battle toads or Jinx or Fulgore etc a good amount missing from your list. Just goes to show more that there is still characters that could catch people of guard if they get revealed.

Totally. It’s definitely interesting having such wildly different tastes from most Smash fans. It would be cool to see some of my favorites brought up more but, in a way, it almost makes it feel more special to be one of the few people rooting for the characters I am.

 

[fogbadge]

Yay, I’m in the minority again! I love the gameplay of Kingdom Hearts and a lot of the original characters are awesome but I’ve always been meh on Sora himself. I think I’m just not huge on his general character archetype. I don’t really hate him or anything but I don’t particularly care about him either. Still, I realize I’m in the minority here and that most people like Sora quite a bit and I don’t really question how he could have won the ballot.

well all jrpg protags seem to be one of three tropes. but there’s something about the way they do Sora that makes me love the happy go lucky idiot

 

[Gengar84]

well all jrpg protags seem to be one of three tropes. but there’s something about the way they do Sora that makes me love the happy go lucky idiot

Yeah, I can definitely see some charm in him even if he’s not really my type of character. It’s easy to see why people like him. My favorite type of character has a lot of complexity and growth that you can resonate with emotionally. They usually have a bit of an edge to them as well. Characters like Yuri Lowell, Velvet Crowe, and Shionne from Tales are some examples of protagonists I like most. The more typical happy go lucky hero archetype isn’t as interesting to me.

 

[PersonAngelo53]

Totally. It’s definitely interesting having such wildly different tastes from most Smash fans. It would be cool to see some of my favorites brought up more but, in a way, it almost makes it feel more special to be one of the few people rooting for the characters I am.

Haha, yeah same I can relate with you on that.

well all jrpg protags seem to be one of three tropes. but there’s something about the way they do Sora that makes me love the happy go lucky idiot

You probably would love Estelle Bright from Trails in the Sky if she got added to smash thanks to her remake coming out this year then if you like Sora and he stands out for you. She uses a long Bo Staff and is a female main character with a happy go lucky personality somewhat similar to Sora as well. She is another type of JRPG protagonist that stands out in design etc.

 

[Gengar84]

You probably would love Estelle Bright from Trails in the Sky if she got added to smash thanks to her remake coming out this year then if you like Sora and he stands out for you. She uses a long Bo Staff and is a female main character with a happy go lucky personality somewhat similar to Sora as well. She is another type of JRPG protagonist that stands out in design etc.

I do hear great things about the series. I play a lot of JRPGs but that’s one series I haven’t really dove into. I’m looking forward to trying out the remake when it comes out. Trying to find the time with my huge backlog of other RPGs is going to be its own challenge. I feel like I’m getting close to completing Metaphor now. I’m 70ish hours in and just passed the point where I could have gotten the first bad ending.

 

[Perkilator]

I had a dream last night that I was playing the next Smash game and one of the songs was a remix medley between the N64 Sherbet Land theme and the Double Dash Sherbet Land theme, with the latter in the tune of its final lap version.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I cannot stress enough that Kingdom Hearts is like one of the most beloved video game franchises of all time. It doesn't take a genius to figure out how Sora placed first on the Smash Ballot.

But I mean, I don't care at all about Kingdom Hearts.

So obviously no one does and no one actually voted for Sora and actually voted for who I wanted instead.
But Sakurai put in Sora anyway and lied about him being the top vote.

 

[fogbadge]

Yeah, I can definitely see some charm in him even if he’s not really my type of character. It’s easy to see why people like him. My favorite type of character has a lot of complexity and growth that you can resonate with emotionally. They usually have a bit of an edge to them as well. Characters like Yuri Lowell, Velvet Crowe, and Shionne from Tales are some examples of protagonists I like most. The more typical happy go lucky hero archetype isn’t as interesting to me.

well I suppose complex characters aren’t typical in KH. complex explanations of why they exist? Sure.

You probably would love Estelle Bright from Trails in the Sky if she got added to smash thanks to her remake coming out this year then if you like Sora and he stands out for you. She uses a long Bo Staff and is a female main character with a happy go lucky personality somewhat similar to Sora as well. She is another type of JRPG protagonist that stands out in design etc.

Bo means staff. using them together is a touch redundant. Like all those hills in Britain called hill in several different languages

 

[PersonAngelo53]

well I suppose complex characters aren’t typical in KH. complex explanations of why they exist? Sure.



Bo means staff. using them together is a touch redundant. Like all those hills in Britain called hill in several different languages

lol good point just ignore the Bo part of my comment . This is like that one Spider verse meme if you know you know lol.

 

[Gengar84]

well I suppose complex characters aren’t typical in KH. complex explanations of why they exist? Sure.



Bo means staff. using them together is a touch redundant. Like all those hills in Britain called hill in several different languages

Yeah, I do have a hard time completely following the story of the games. It probably doesn’t help that the only non numbered title I’ve completed is Birth by Sleep. The games are still a lot of fun to play and I like the design of several Organization members even if the story goes over my head at times. I feel kind of the same about Xenoblade. I had a particularly hard time understanding the XB3 DLC story.

 

[ninjahmos]

I think Smash will always favor characters made in Japan, which makes sense given where Smash is developed. However, I’d love if they continued to branch out more and included more characters from around the world. I think Banjo and Steve are encouraging signs they might be opening up a bit more. Most games I play are made in Japan but there are quite a few western characters I really like and would love to see in Smash as well. While I’m less familiar with characters made outside Japan or the west, it would still be cool to see them get some representation as well.

Well, I'm sure there's gotta be at least a few Western video game franchises that are popular in Japan.

 

[Gengar84]

Well, I'm sure there's gotta be at least a few Western video game franchises that are popular in Japan.

You’d imagine. Probably not any of the ones that I’d most like to see but there’s likely at least a few western games popular in Japan. Minecraft was probably one of them considering how well Steve did on the ballot.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Speaking of Phoenix Wright, how much does a character’s potential moveset influence how much you’d like to see them in Smash? Does being able to visualize how a character could play make you want them more?

I don't think moveset potential is the #1 factor, but at some point, I typically imagine how all my wanted characters would play, which can influence my thoughts on them. If I somehow can't imagine a character having an interesting moveset (which usually isn't the case), I wouldn't support them as much.

 

[ninjahmos]

Ignore this post

 

[fogbadge]

lol good point just ignore the Bo part of my comment . This is like that one Spider verse meme if you know you know lol.

I know

Yeah, I do have a hard time completely following the story of the games. It probably doesn’t help that the only non numbered title I’ve completed is Birth by Sleep. The games are still a lot of fun to play and I like the design of several Organization members even if the story goes over my head at times. I feel kind of the same about Xenoblade. I had a particularly hard time understanding the XB3 DLC story.

That’s why people like me exist. So we can explain the story to people who didn’t understand it. whether they wanted us to or not

 

[chocolatejr9]

That’s why people like me exist. So we can explain the story to people who didn’t understand it. whether they wanted us to or not

Me but with FNAF/Bendy/Poppy Playtime/a surprising amount of mascot horror. I have been cursed to carry the weight of forbidden knowledge...

(I don't do Garten of Banban though. Even I have standards.)

 

[ninjahmos]

You know what's something I'm hoping they'll change for Sonic? I'm kinda hoping they'll fix his sound effects and use them from the Genesis era and onward.

For example, they could fix the sound effect for his Up Special, and if they change his Side Special to Light Speed Dash and keep Spin Dash as his Down Special, they could use this sound effect for Light Speed Dash and use this sound effect for Spin Dash.

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

Late on this but my username is the same I gave for my Google/Youtube profile I created around 2012-ish. Just kinda shoving my two favorite cutesy Nintendo characters at the time into one name. The Yoshi being a red one since one of my first non-Pokemon related Nintendo plushies was a red Yoshi which I still have today.

I should probably change it soon. It's a mouthfull, I don't go by that anymore on other sites and it kinda reeks of 10-year-old Nintendo fanboy creating his first internet account, which it basically is lol.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I don't give a **** about KH. But I'd be insane to suggest it's not wildly popular.

Forgot to reply to this earlier, but Master Higgins is an interesting case, cuz believe it or not, he's actually based on a real guy. Adventure Island in Japan was originally branded around Takahashi Meijin, a spokesperson for Hudson who was very famous at the time and went on to be something of a symbol of the Famicom era.

I feel like he'd fall into the same category as Dr. Kawashima.

Yeah no battle toads or Jinx or Fulgore etc a good amount missing from your list. Just goes to show more that there is still characters that could catch people of guard if they get revealed.

I skipped to then end and didn't even see Hayabusa on the list.

Bo means staff.

Most people don't know that, so just saying Bo is insufficient. And it's useful to differentiate between a wizard staff and a martial arts staff.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

That framing just brings even more disbelief because then why Sora of all characters?

Waluigi, K.Rool, The Belmonts, Inklings, Chrom? Returning vets like Wolf? Even SE like Chrono and Black Mage. Those with actual Nintendo presence, Sora is the most Nintendo-centric pick at the time of Smash 4?

Nobody is saying that Sora got in because he's Nintendo,centric. He's just popular. And if you look through the various speculation or social threads on this site, currently active ones or not, even just a few pages of them, you'd most likely find that even virtually all of the Nintendo fans here are big fans of various game franchises that are neither made by Nintendo nor ones that are frequently (or ever) published on a Nintendo system, Kingdom Hearts included.

The King of Phantoms is one brought up sales numbers as a factor which i shot down as factor as it doesn't hold up.

Except you didn't do that. You were even flat out wrong in saying that Dark Souls has sold less copies of games than Kingdom Hearts as, despite Dark Souls having way less entries in it's franchise, has sold approximately a million copies more than Kingdom Hearts, which is something I pointed out in my original post. What was that about disingenuous framing, again? Dark Souls isn't even the only game franchise to have outsold KH despite having less entries in it's respective series than it, including ones which had their first game release both before and after the first Kingdom Hearts was game released, so your entire point about sales is moot.

You're also completely ignoring that the sheer number of sales it made is still immensely influential. It might not be in the Mario, Call of Duty or Pokémon numbers, which are franchises that are practically in a league of their own, but 36 million sold copies of games Is still absolutely nothing to scoff at. The franchise is absolutely popular and well-known.

Steve was said to be negotiated 5 years before his reveal which lines up strongly with the ballot. Even in 2015, he was strongly regarded favorite with the Minecraft boom going strong. I argue the connection of Nintendo fanbase and Minecraft greatly aligns much more than Kingdom Hearts. I don't like using fan polls as sources but even those polls Steve usually topped Sora on the charts. No doubt he dominated the ballot.

I wouldn't be surprised. Not because Kingdom Hearts isn't insanely popular, but because Minecraft is the individual best-selling game of all time. Saying that there's a greater overlap of Nintendo fans and Minecraft fans than Nintendo fans and Kingsom Hearts fans is like saying there's a greater overlap of Nintendo fans and Minecraft fans than virtually any other game franchise with similar sales figures to KH.

Theory territory but Bayonetta was probably picked the "ballot winner" at the time because Nintendo couldn't secure Steve in time for Smash 4 DLC so was saved for Ultimate which would explain why Vergeben and his sources picked up the info of Minecraft content coming to Smash but he couldn't pinpoint what because Negotiations took longer than expected even during Ultimate season.

Very likely Steve was going to final major pick ending off Ultimate DLC as true winner when the next pass was still 5 until Sakurai met the Disney VP and retroactively added Sora not a winner but as the unexpected surprise that most would never see coming/would happen finale. Only adding the "ballot" winner spin to drum icing on hype cake.

There is absolutely zero indication that anyone other than Sora was the winner of the ballot. Bayonetta was among the top 5 worldwide, but considering that Sora is partially owned by Disney, it's likely that they had little time to try and add him into 4 by the time the game was nearing the end of it's development cycle. If he spun anyone as the ballot winner, it was Bayo in Smash 4, not Sora in Ultimate. Even then, she was still the most voted for character in Europe overall, so what was said about her winning the ballot was still technically true.

Bayonetta also isn't one of the highest selling game franchises out there, yet the first two games were quite popular and the sales in that case clearly did nothing to diminish her popularity or ballot numbers. Sales absolutely help with a franchise's popularity, but neither factors like one franchise making more sales than another no recognizability are the end all be all for what characters Smash fans want. At the end of the day, Kingdom Hearts is still an insanely popular franchise and has been for years, and there's nothing indicating anyone other than Sora was the #1 overall most voted character on the ballot.

 

[Shinuto]

Nobody is saying that Sora got in because he's Nintendo,centric. He's just popular. And if you look through the various speculation or social threads on this site, currently active ones or not, even just a few pages of them, you'd most likely find that even virtually all of the Nintendo fans here are big fans of various game franchises that are neither made by Nintendo nor ones that are frequently (or ever) published on a Nintendo system, Kingdom Hearts included.



Except you didn't do that. You were even flat out wrong in saying that Dark Souls has sold less copies of games than Kingdom Hearts as, despite Dark Souls having way less entries in it's franchise, has sold approximately a million copies more than Kingdom Hearts, which is something I pointed out in my original post. What was that about disingenuous framing, again? Dark Souls isn't even the only game franchise to have outsold KH despite having less entries in it's respective series than it, including ones which had their first game release both before and after the first Kingdom Hearts was game released, so your entire point about sales is moot.

You're also completely ignoring that the sheer number of sales it made is still immensely influential. It might not be in the Mario, Call of Duty or Pokémon numbers, which are franchises that are practically in a league of their own, but 36 million sold copies of games Is still absolutely nothing to scoff at. The franchise is absolutely popular and well-known.



I wouldn't be surprised. Not because Kingdom Hearts isn't insanely popular, but Minecraft is the individual best-selling game of all time. Saying that there's a greater overlap of Nintendo fans and Minecraft fans than Nintendo fans and Kingsom Hearts fans is like saying there's a greater overlap of Nintendo fans and Minecraft fans than virtually any other game franchise with similar sales figures to KH.



There is absolutely zero indication that anyone other than Sora was the winner of the ballot. Bayonetta was among the top 5 worldwide, but considering that Sora is partially owned by Disney, it's likely that they had little time to try and add him into 4 by the time the game was nearing the end of it's development cycle. If he spun anyone as the ballot winner, it was Bayo in Smash 4, not Sora in Ultimate. Even then, she was still the most voted for character in Europe overall, so what was said about her winning the ballot was still technically true.

Bayonetta also isn't one of the highest selling game franchises out there, yet the first two games were quite popular and the sales in that case clearly did nothing to diminish her popularity or ballot numbers. Sales absolutely help with a franchise's popularity, but neither factors like one franchise making more sales than another no recognizability are the end all be all for what characters Smash fans want. At the end of the day, Kingdom Hearts is still an insanely popular franchise and has been for years, and there's nothing indicating anyone other than Sora was the #1 overall most voted character on the ballot.

All this dumb crap about Sora not being the number one ballot result is purely "I don't like this character, so that means they can't be the winner cause I don't get their series."

 

[Gorgonzales]

This thought just came to me but I hope the next game either really de-emphasizes mashing or removes it entirely. Such a bad mechanic that just wears down your controllers.

Maybe they could make it so everything that used to require mashing now requires you to press a sequence of buttons, chosen at random each time and displayed above your character portrait. Or just make every grab last a fixed amount of time before it ends in a grab release.

 

[ninjahmos]

This thought just came to me but I hope the next game either really de-emphasizes mashing or removes it entirely. Such a bad mechanic that just wears down your controllers.

Maybe they could make it so everything that used to require mashing now requires you to press a sequence of buttons, chosen at random each time and displayed above your character portrait. Or just make every grab last a fixed amount of time before it ends in a grab release.

I mean, if you wanna make Smash play more like a traditional fighting game, sure. Although, I'm not really sure how well that would play out.