Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Swamp Sensei]

I can safely say that the big 6 is the next goal should Pac-Man, Megaman and Sonic stay for the next game.
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Big 6?

Seems like a term loosely thrown together.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Toy Link is pretty different from Toon Link even in terms of bodyshape. Though it's admittedly a lot closer to Toon Link's design than Young Link is, but that doesn't change that they're different bodyshapes, heh.

Just like Young Link was to Toon Link. It's not simply a rename. They're actually different designs and only could use a previous Link as a base to create them. The adult Links kept the same bodyshape, which is why it didn't get a rename despite different aesthetics and artstyles, and even a different handedness. The main thing was how proportionately similar they were. And ultimately, all 3 Links have different bodyshapes.

But anyway, I don't think we'll get Toy Link. While it's the newest design as is, Toon Link and Young Link are already popular in different ways and there's already enough Links on the roster that it doesn't warrant yet another one. Especially when we're unlikely to have more than 2. It could still happen, of course. But having more than 2 total doesn't seem likely beyond a situation like Ultimate's, though.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Honestly if I had to pick a small Link to keep, it'd be Toon Link anyway, while we're on the subject of the small Links.

A good number of his normals are pretty different from Link's (shout-out to Ultimate for making his Forward Smash completely different), which makes him feel at least a bit different, so if we have to have one I'd rather have Toon than Young even if Young is more popular tbh

 

[RodNutTakin]

Big 6?

Seems like a term loosely thrown together.

I honestly agree. I'm definitely going to get some hate thrown towards me for saying this, but I frankly think Rayman is gassed up to be more important than he really is sometimes, and that does irk me quite a bit. He's a character who got three major games, got phased out, got two more major games nearly a decade later, got phased out again, and then came back in a DLC expansion just for his whole future to be thrown into question because his parent company is gasping for water like a fish on land. 5 games over the span of 18 years compared to the others in the image. The four already on the roster need no introduction, but even Crash makes more sense to be there since he's had a relatively consistent stream of games with only one major break, along with the important factors of headlining a popular system and actually breaking through to Japan audiences (something vital that Rayman failed to do).

If Rayman were to be actually compared to anyone currently playable in Smash, he would instead be on the same level as Banjo and Bayonetta. They all have games that are generally considered to be very well-liked, but on the flipside, their series are very small and sporadic in releases--I don't believe a single one of them have reached double digits in terms of mainline games. And much like those two characters, the only way I can see Rayman ever getting added is through active demand for it to happen--which I think is going to be a lot harder now than how it was a decade ago now that the pool for character suggestions has vastly widened.

This isn't me trying to say that Rayman or his games are bad nor am I saying that he will never become a playable character, but I do think a bit of a reality check is needed regarding his place in gaming.

 

[Idon]

Honestly if I had to pick a small Link to keep, it'd be Toon Link anyway, while we're on the subject of the small Links.

A good number of his normals are pretty different from Link's (shout-out to Ultimate for making his Forward Smash completely different), which makes him feel at least a bit different, so if we have to have one I'd rather have Toon than Young even if Young is more popular tbh

I feel the opposite.

Despite having more similar animations, Young Link plays significantly different from Link instead of simply being a side-grade of the same spacing playstyle. He's this fast aggressive little rat that uses projectiles to actually get in and do combos.

 

[Schnee117]

Big 6?

Seems like a term loosely thrown together.

I want to know what they're meant to be the "Big 6" of because I can't think of a way to make it work without needing some additional qualifiers.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I want to know what they're meant to be the "Big 6" of because I can't think of a way to make it work without needing some additional qualifiers.

The only things they have in common seem to be cartoony art styles and they had platformers at one point.

Anything else varies wildly.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

just for his whole future to be thrown into question because his parent company is gasping for water like a fish on land.

Honestly, I am really curious about Rayman and the Rabbids in the case of Ubisoft going private or whatever and selling off IPs and things, and I do honestly kinda wonder: Do you guys think Nintendo would somehow buy Rayman and the Rabbids?

I could see them do it, but ONLY so they have full ownership of everything in the Mario + Rabbids games, and even that's a real big stretch lmao

 

[NintenRob]

Honestly, I am really curious about Rayman and the Rabbids in the case of Ubisoft going private or whatever and selling off IPs and things, and I do honestly kinda wonder: Do you guys think Nintendo would somehow buy Rayman and the Rabbids?

I could see them do it, but ONLY so they have full ownership of everything in the Mario + Rabbids games, and even that's a real big stretch lmao

I... Could actually see it. The Mario + Rabbids were critical successes and I could see Nintendo wanting to continue the franchise, much like Mario & Luigi.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I... Could actually see it. The Mario + Rabbids were critical successes and I could see Nintendo wanting to continue the franchise, much like Mario & Luigi.

Yeah, it's like I could MAYBE see them do it for that or at least to own everything in it so it's not wrapped up in weird rights things as a game with Mario in it, and I do think a Nintendo-made Rayman would have just the right type of quirky to it if you got the right team together.

The main reason I feel like it's a stretch though is because Nintendo doesn't typically go in to pick up the pieces so to speak and it reminds me of what happened with like Rare and AlphaDream but obviously without the pre-existing connection outside of like two titles lol

EDIT: Heck, Davide Soliani and the team that made those games have their own studio now after leaving Ubisoft, so if they do somehow buy those, could just give it to them and let them keep working with the Rabbids and stuff lol

 

[MrMcNuts]

This isn't me trying to say that Rayman or his games are bad nor am I saying that he will never become a playable character, but I do think a bit of a reality check is needed regarding his place in gaming.

People against the idea of merely calling Rayman a gaming icon in the big 2025

Also as much as some people here deny it Rayman is still very much actively demanded to this day.

 

[Schnee117]

The only things they have in common seem to be cartoony art styles and they had platformers at one point.

Anything else varies wildly.

"At one point" doing some very heavy lifting here

 

[Thegameandwatch]

so if we have to have one I'd rather have Toon than Young even if Young is more popular tbh

It somewhat reminds me of Falco and Wolf where the latter is much more popular but the developers could potentially pick Falco out of the two if they had to pick one since it happened in Smash 4.

 

[Idon]

It somewhat reminds me of Falco and Wolf where the latter is much more popular but the developers could potentially pick Falco out of the two if they had to pick one since it happened in Smash 4.

Feel like that's also a situation where Brawl Wolf was clearly undercooked as a character with a bunch of weird asset reuse moves that didn't really fit.

Now that he's had the facelift going into ultimate, if it came down to picking one or the other, the decision would probably be more difficult.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I personally would choose Toon Link over Young Link too. However, something just keeps telling me it's very likely that all characters will return yet again. In my head, am not even considering cuts anymore.

But I gotta admit even if Toon Link is in my opinion the better choice, there's more to work with in source abilities with Young Link. And he's also more popular.

Since there are so many Links anyway, why not also have the Hero of Time as a separate Echo Link? Full clone of Young Link, but with all the properties of regular Link, also Hookshot grab. The more Link changes, the more I think this is actually a good idea.

Too many Links in Smash? My hairy ass. We have 4 "Marths" , 3 "Marios" and 3 "Fox" variations of characters. We can excuse this other Link. Especially since they don't wanna add any Zelda characters anyway.

 

[dream1ng]

I can safely say that the big 6 is the next goal should Pac-Man, Megaman and Sonic stay for the next game.
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Ah yes, the big 5 and Rayman

 

[DynamicSmasher]

Hey there's a thought, how would people feel if Toon Link was updated to Toy Link, but was still called and treated as Toon Link

I think Toy Link could be an alternative skin for toon, kinda of like the Yoshi's Crafted World skin. But I don't think he would replace Toon Link entirely.

How would you guys want them to handle Toon Zelda? They could either redesign current Zelda to look like her, give current Zelda a skin resembling her, or add her as a character herself.(Well, assuming they don't just ignore her lol)

 

[Diddy Kong]

I think Toy Link could be an alternative skin for toon, kinda of like the Yoshi's Crafted World skin. But I don't think he would replace Toon Link entirely.

How would you guys want them to handle Toon Zelda? They could either redesign current Zelda to look like her, give current Zelda a skin resembling her, or add her as a character herself.(Well, assuming they don't just ignore her lol)

Keep her as the current version of Zelda. Including Phantom Slash. But make her smaller, lighter and faster. This would make her a better character than Zelda already by design.

Now revamp the current Zelda and do a Echo summon for Down B that's basically Phantom Slash but with monster Echoes. And give her a few Tri Rod attacks but mostly focus her on Tears of the Kingdom and Breath of the Wild, being more light magic projectile based.

It would be a huge shame if this would be the long awaited Zelda newcomer however. But I guess it goes hand in hand with a revamp of Zelda and Ganondorf and maybe Link too. Hence I'm fan of the idea of them throwing the Hero of Time in as a true Echo Fighter to Link. Why not? If they wanna stay lame and boring better there be options and functionality.

At the very least throw in Impa as a Sheik Echo then. Just.... something.

 

[fogbadge]

Big 6?

Seems like a term loosely thrown together.

yes but it was a pretty good movie

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Hence I'm fan of the idea of them throwing the Hero of Time in as a true Echo Fighter to Link. Why not? If they wanna stay lame and boring better there be options and functionality.

I feel like he is better as an Alt and especially since Zelda series’ reputation in Smash as just the main trio will get worse.

My prediction is that the Zelda roster would be like this: Link (has TP and OoT as alts), Zelda (some elements of EoW), Sheik, Ganondorf, Toon Link, Impa/Skull Kid.

 

[Perkilator]

I think the best way for the next Smash game to go about its playable Zelda representation is to just have Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf alongside a Zelda newcomer who isn't connected to the Triforce trio in any way, shape, or form (maybethrow in Sheik as well, assuming time constraints aren't a problem).

 

[HyperSomari64]

I can safely say that the big 6 is the next goal should Pac-Man, Megaman and Sonic stay for the next game.
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If Astro Bot was here, they would be the magnificent secret seven
or at least replace one of the scrimbos

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

People against the idea of merely calling Rayman a gaming icon in the big 2025

Also as much as some people here deny it Rayman is still very much actively demanded to this day.

I mean, us nerds really like him but beyond that I don't think he has that much of an audience.

That's not to say he can't get one. He just doesn't have one currently.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The Big 6 designation I do sort of get even if I wholly understand why some would think it's a bit arbitrary. Six cartoonish characters, all with notable platformer games (even Pac-Man) and serving as mascots for their respective* companies? There is some (tenuous) logic there. If you had Scorpion, Kasumi, Fulgore in Smash alongside Ryu, Terry, & Kazuya you could probably make a decent claim for them as the "Big Fighting 6" in Smash along those same lines.

*Crash of course being the semi-exception as however much he was associated with PSX, he was never owned by Sony and is really a former Naughty Dog now Activision mascot in all truth.

 

[MrMcNuts]

I mean, us nerds really like him but beyond that I don't think he has that much of an audience.

That's not to say he can't get one. He just doesn't have one currently.

Half the cast of smash's audience consist of just nerds like us. I mean iconic as in the gamingsphere. It's like OP said he's on the level of Banjo and Bayonetta, not house hold names but majority of gamers can recognize.

 

[NintenRob]

Yeah, it's like I could MAYBE see them do it for that or at least to own everything in it so it's not wrapped up in weird rights things as a game with Mario in it, and I do think a Nintendo-made Rayman would have just the right type of quirky to it if you got the right team together.

The main reason I feel like it's a stretch though is because Nintendo doesn't typically go in to pick up the pieces so to speak and it reminds me of what happened with like Rare and AlphaDream but obviously without the pre-existing connection outside of like two titles lol

EDIT: Heck, Davide Soliani and the team that made those games have their own studio now after leaving Ubisoft, so if they do somehow buy those, could just give it to them and let them keep working with the Rabbids and stuff lol

It's actually the rare buyout that got me thinking. Nintendo actually use to own the rights to Banjo Kazooie. How much of it is unknown, but Nintendo is credited as such with Diddy Kong racing. What they didn't own were the DK64 original characters. And instead of keeping Banjo, they traded his rights in order to complete the DK 64 rights.

Of course that was a long time ago, but I can definitely see Nintendo wanting to do more with Mario + Rabbids

 

[Gengar84]

The Big 6 designation I do sort of get even if I wholly understand why some would think it's a bit arbitrary. Six cartoonish characters, all with notable platformer games (even Pac-Man) and serving as mascots for their respective* companies? There is some (tenuous) logic there. If you had Scorpion, Kasumi, Fulgore in Smash alongside Ryu, Terry, & Kazuya you could probably make a decent claim for them as the "Big Fighting 6" in Smash along those same lines.

*Crash of course being the semi-exception as however much he was associated with PSX, he was never owned by Sony and is really a former Naughty Dog now Activision mascot in all truth.

Do you think Nightmare or Sol Badguy would make the “big 6” fighting game reps over any of these? I’m really happy to see Fulgore here though.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Do you think Nightmare or Sol Badguy would make the “big 6” fighting game reps over any of these? I’m really happy to see Fulgore here though.

Sol Badguy would make complete sense and the only reason I didn't put Nightmare or a Soul Calibur fighter in that hypothetical is because Bandai Namco technically has a rep of sorts with Kazuya, even though both series are prominent enough in fighting game circles to warrant inclusion in Smash.

 

[Dinoman96]

I'm still taking it to my grave in that if Rayman was really THAT requested on the Smash ballot, they would have tried to make him playable in Ultimate. That's literally the big difference between him and Banjonetta (also the fact that Nintendo used to flat out own Banjo at one point and also the fact that they fund and publish Bayo's newer games also help).

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Half the cast of smash's audience consist of just nerds like us. I mean iconic as in the gamingsphere. It's like OP said he's on the level of Banjo and Bayonetta, not house hold names but majority of gamers can recognize.

And that's reasonable, but it doesn't constitute a gaming icon.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Rayman would be neat and I don’t doubt his popularity and appeal, but I just get an allergic reaction to any “Big X” list, since they have an at best biased and at worst completely arbitrary cut-off point: Even if Rayman and Crash are added, someone will argue that someone like Frogger or Blinx should also be added to complete “The Big 8” or something. Rayman or Crash don’t complete any pre-established group and thinking of them as part of some nebulous “Big Six” just serves to condition people into wanting them to temporarily satiate the completionist bias baked into our species’ brains.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Do you think Nightmare or Sol Badguy would make the “big 6” fighting game reps over any of these? I’m really happy to see Fulgore here though.

sol yes, nightmare no

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Even more so than Rayman, for Crash, I think for a lot of (at least Western) fans do see his inclusion as completing not so much a Big 6 as much as the Big 3 with him, Sonic, and Mario. His significance and place within that mid to late 90s console war still looms large to many and there's a tendency, unspoken or otherwise, that him appearing in Smash would essentially bring that context full circle:

Not saying it's entirely rational (especially given that Sony never owned him, and he's been a multiplatform character for almost 25 years) but the sentiment is there, I think.

 

[Gengar84]

sol yes, nightmare no

Interesting. I love Killer Instinct and Fulgore but I would have assumed it was a more niche series than Soul Calibur. Killer Instinct only had three games with a 17 year gap between the second and third entries. Soul Calibur had six games released more steadily throughout its life (although they both seem to be dormant right now).

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Nightmare is a possibility due to how close Namco is to the project, but we'd have to want it. It's not the sort of character they'd just add for funzies I think, especially since the Soul Calibur series is currently dead.

 

[Dinoman96]

With Tekken and Pac-Man already repped with fighters, what third Namco IP do you think would be next in line? Tales of, perhaps?

 

[Gengar84]

Nightmare is a possibility due to how close Namco is to the project, but we'd have to want it. It's not the sort of character they'd just add for funzies I think, especially since the Soul Calibur series is currently dead.

Nightmare is pretty high up on my list but he falls behind Fulgore and Sub-Zero for my most wanted fighting game characters and behind Shionne and Velvet for my most wanted Bandai-Namco characters. I’d still be really hyped to see him since Soul Calibur is my second most played fighting game series after Smash and I’ve always liked the character.

With Tekken and Pac-Man already repped with fighters, what third Namco IP do you think would be next in line? Tales of, perhaps?

I really hope it’s Tales though I’d prefer someone other than Lloyd. I really love the characters from their most recent entries. Velvet is an awesome antihero with demonic powers and a unique weapon and Shionne has such a tragic story, great character growth, and a stunning design that made her one of my favorites. Lloyd is just a bit basic in comparison in my opinion.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

In terms of recent prominence and consistently Sol Badguy/Bridget would make more sense than Fulgore; his inclusion in that Big Fighting 6 list was more due to the novelty of his creation belonging to a 2nd/3rd party developer that's now owned by a non Nintendo console maker (a condition would also explain the distinct nature of Banjo and Crash now that I'm thinking about it).

 

[fogbadge]

especially since the Soul Calibur series is currently dead.

Aw

 

[Gorgonzales]

With Tekken and Pac-Man already repped with fighters, what third Namco IP do you think would be next in line? Tales of, perhaps?

Dig Dug or Katamari.