Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Dinoman96]

Here's what I predict for the next game:

The newcomer lineup will consist of characters from games or franchises that have relatively recent popularity or recently-released titles

I mean that's basically what the base game lineup for prior Smash games have been lol, and I imagine it won't be different for Smash on Switch 2. Likewise the DLC will focus on popular third party characters, the occasional contemporary Nintendo character that missed the boat for the base game, and cut veterans in the (likely) event the base game has cuts from Ultimate.

and characters that were heavily-requested for Ultimate but didn't make it in.

I am actually interested to see if Sakurai will still be drawing from the Smash ballot the next time around. IMO I think that could be a huge boon for Isaac's chances in particular.

 

[Dee Dude]

Unless we eventually get those Golden Sun remakes to boost his likelihood next time, this is essentially Isaac’s last shot and I hope he’ll finally get in.

They brought back his AT with more moves, gave him a Mii outfit, GS had the most spirits out of any non-playable Nintendo franchise, if the Ballot’s still important then the odds should be in his favor.

 

[ninjahmos]

Here's what I predict for the next game:

The newcomer lineup will consist of characters from games or franchises that have relatively recent popularity or recently-released titles, and characters that were heavily-requested for Ultimate but didn't make it in.

Watch me be wrong lol

Oh, I forgot.

We may get at least one or two retro/WTF picks.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I think a Virtua Fighter character makes a lot of sense due to its impact and recent revival. The main obstacle it has in my opinion is that VF is a series that tries to have the characters fighting styles be fairly rooted in reality, much more so than Tekken.

We saw that Sakurai specifically added Kazuya over Heihachi, because it allowed him to implement a character who fights as similar as possible to how they do in Tekken, terrible single jump and all, but also have more crazy abilities with his devil powers which better align with Smash Bros. game design, stuff like special moves, smash attacks and most notably his wings allowing a good midair jump and recovery special move.

Adding someone like Akira would be like adding Heihachi, a character Sakurai seemingly felt “wouldn’t feel right” in Smash. In Smash the fighting game characters especially have been very accurate to how they play in their home series, pretty much as accurate as you can get. Sakurai notably said he wanted to capture the true essence of Tekken, which he felt Kazuya allowed him to do. If Sakurai doesn’t think he can “capture the true essence” of Virtua Fighter while still having them fit in Smash it may not happen.

 

[Dukefire]

If I can recall for WTF character choices....
Melee: Mr Game and Watch (the Dreaded Judge attack)
Brawl: R.O.B (Last of its kind. Also, callback to his IR games for the NES)
Smash 4: Duck Hunt (admit it: you did hate that dog laughing at you for missing ducks.)
Ultimate: Piranha Plant (Hi Guys. Hi Steve)

Sakurai always keep surprising the audience despite some or few keeping their mind open.

 

[RileyXY1]

If I can recall for WTF character choices....
Brawl: Mr Game and Watch (the Dreaded Judge attack)
Smash 4: Wii Fit Trainer (stay fit)
Ultimate: Piranha Plant (Hi Guys. Hi Steve)View attachment 398215
Sakurai always keep surprising the audience despite some or few keeping their mind open.

Technically Mr. Game & Watch was Melee's. Brawl's was R.O.B..

 

[Dukefire]

Technically Mr. Game & Watch was Melee's. Brawl's was R.O.B..

Oh......I'll fix that. Thanks

 

[Dinoman96]

Duck Hunt was also Smash 4's token WTF/surprise character. Sakurai's planning documents said as such.

I think Wii Fit Trainer is honestly nothing but a mere popular contemporary Nintendo pick, not that different from Inkling or Min Min.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

If I can recall for WTF character choices....
Brawl: Mr Game and Watch (the Dreaded Judge attack)
Smash 4: Wii Fit Trainer (stay fit)
Ultimate: Piranha Plant (Hi Guys. Hi Steve)View attachment 398215
Sakurai always keep surprising the audience despite some or few keeping their mind open.

Mr. Game & Watch was Melee’s, R.O.B. was Brawl’s and Duck Hunt was 3DS/Wii U’s.

Even though Wii Fit Trainer was more surprising for a lot of people, Duck Hunt was officially labeled by Sakurai as that games “surprise character”.

 

[Dukefire]

Mr. Game & Watch is Melee’s, R.O.B. Was Brawl’s and Duck Hunt was 3DS/Wii U’s.

Even though Wii Fit Trainer was more surprising for a lot of people, Duck Hunt was officially labeled by Sakurai as that games “surprise character”.

Now thinking about it. The surprise characters so far are in older games from Nintendo.
Game and Watch (literal Game & Watch handheld)
R.O.B (NES accessory for few games utilizing it)
Duck Hunt (The NES Zapper gun accessory)
Piranha Plant (Literal Plant enemies in Mario Bros since 1985.)

 

[Stratos]

I was thinking about something, but this is something that is better (in my opinion) not to do, but what if we could send Sakurai a roster with images of the video game characters we want in future games in the Super Smash Bros. series? But I know that this would tire Sakurai in terms of having to look at so many characters that it would be difficult for him to remember them all, and that's why I say and write that it is better not to do it.

 

[Dukefire]

I was thinking about something, but this is something that is better (in my opinion) not to do, but what if we could send Sakurai a roster with images of the video game characters we want in future games in the Super Smash Bros. series? But I know that this would tire Sakurai in terms of having to look at so many characters that it would be difficult for him to remember them all, and that's why I say and write that it is better not to do it.

Problem with us fans nowadays is that expectations are set higher and higher with each passing title. It gets to point where one only has SO MUCH stamina and mind to give before running out with endless amounts of targets still out there.

Spoiler: Video

It is easier said than done. So, all we can do is prepare and have contengency plans in case.

 

[Dee Dude]

Oh, I forgot.

We may get at least one or two retro/WTF picks.

Man, I’m bummed out we didn’t get a retro/NES era pick in Ultimate, it felt like Smash tradition up til then.

I’m gunning for either Mach Rider, Takamaru or something more outlandish like Muddy Mole or Stanley The Bugman lol.

 

[Dukefire]

Man, I’m bummed out we didn’t get a retro/NES era pick in Ultimate, it felt like Smash tradition up til then.

I’m gunning for either Mach Rider, Takamaru or something more outlandish like Muddy Mole or Stanley The Bugman lol.

I think takamaru might have the best shot since he's been an assist trophy since brawl and originated on the Nintendo Famicon in 1986. Though, Waluigi fans might argue about that he's more important memes aside.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

So is Mach Rider the only instance of a character getting a redesign in Smash, but never being made playable?

 

[Dukefire]

So is Mach Rider the only instance of a character getting a redesign in Smash, but never being made playable? View attachment 398228View attachment 398227View attachment 398224

Originated on the Famicom as a Race/run and gun game. I think his moveset could work like Snake, but more focus on actual guns rather than explosives. He has one game, but sakurai could work around that concept.

 

[ninjahmos]

If Mach Rider ever gets into the next game, they should make a newly remixed medley of the game's soundtrack.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

As much as I absolutely adore getting Rayman in 6, I’m sadly gonna have to agree, his chances aren’t that high considering that a lot of notably popular Japanese 3rd party IPs still not represented in Smash will definitely take priority over him and if we’re getting atleast one more new western platformer mascot post-Banjo, it’ll be Crash just from the Japanese popularity boost alone.

I feel you guys should give Rayman more credit. I argue has a lot more going for him than Crash who requests and popularity was literally just riding coattails of Banjo's hype and nothing more. Crash is overrated in speculation.

Rayman was at least a popular pick since Smash 4. The Omni Leak was concrete proof of that, strong Nintendo connections to this day and unlike Crash, Ubisoft seems to be willing do more stuff with him in collaborations and doesn't face the absolute uphill battle in competition with character like Doomslayer, Skyrim, Master ****** Chief, Overwatch, COD, Minecraft etc that Microsoft and gaming sphere are more interested in.

Crash hasn't had game appearance in years and his development went indie with no future in sight. You can't say the same for Rayman. Recency Bias helps a lot for picks and if that rumored Rayman game is true then its probably wrap

 

[Dukefire]

I feel you guys should give Rayman more credit. I argue has a lot more going for him than Crash who requests and popularity was literally just riding coattails of Banjo's hype and nothing more. Crash is overrated in speculation.

Rayman was at least a popular pick since Smash 4. The Omni Leak was concrete proof of that, strong Nintendo connections to this day and unlike Crash, Ubisoft seems to be willing do more stuff with him in collaborations and doesn't face the absolute uphill battle in competition with character like Doomslayer, Skyrim, Master ****** Chief, Overwatch, COD, Minecraft etc that Microsoft and gaming sphere are more interested in.

Crash hasn't had game appearance in years and his development went indie with no future in sight. You can't say the same for Rayman. Recency Bias helps a lot for picks and if that rumored Rayman game is true then its probably wrap

The Problem that limit Rayman is......the company that he's from. Ubisoft isn't in the best position right now.

 

[Perkilator]

So is Mach Rider the only instance of a character getting a redesign in Smash, but never being made playable? View attachment 398228View attachment 398227View attachment 398224

I think Mach Rider’s model in Melee would fit Captain Falcon pretty well if she was Melee’s Falco Echo instead of Ganondorf.

 

[RileyXY1]

The Problem that limit Rayman is......the company that he's from. Ubisoft isn't in the best position right now.View attachment 398229

In fact Ubisoft might not even exist in its present form after this year.

 

[Dukefire]

In fact Ubisoft might not even exist in its present form after this year.

The End is near.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

So is Mach Rider the only instance of a character getting a redesign in Smash, but never being made playable?

Pit, Ayumi, and most melee trophies of classic characters were redesigns.

 

[Ivander]

So is Mach Rider the only instance of a character getting a redesign in Smash, but never being made playable? View attachment 398228View attachment 398227View attachment 398224

Arguably Kraid? Kraid in Smash Melee does have some notable differences from his Super Metroid version.

In Melee, the back of Kraid's head is nowhere near as bulbous, his eyes are bright yellow instead of red and his legs can actually stretch and spread.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

The Problem that limit Rayman is......the company that he's from. Ubisoft isn't in the best position right now.View attachment 398229

they'll bounce back. Toys for Bobs won't though and they are the only ones who cared for Crash

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

they'll bounce back. Toys for Bobs won't though and they are the only ones who cared for Crash

I mean Toys for Bob went indie, so it's less that they are in a bad position and moreso that Microsoft would have to give an indie company access to Crash, which is possible, but who knows if it's likely.

 

[Dukefire]

I mean Toys for Bob went indie, so it's less that they are in a bad position and moreso that Microsoft would have to give an indie company access to Crash, which is possible, but who knows if it's likely.

Time will tell on business decisions....
For now, we got until april to know the current position for Nintendo. Unless they give us a direct for Winter on February, Spring on April 2nd is the news drop.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

The fact that Crash is now owned by Microsoft and they have two of their characters in Ultimate means he is probably more likely then Rayman whose company is failing right now.

 

[Dinoman96]

I always felt one of the main reasons to why Crash took off in the Smash speculation scene the way he did, especially over someone like Rayman, is that he's one of the few western properties to have ever seen some sort of success in Japan at some point.

Like, each game of the original ND trilogy managed to all sell at least 600k over there, with the second game in particular selling over a million and the third one not far behind. For a western made platformer series, that's pretty amazing. Like, compare it to Rayman and...

Yeah, it really isn't surprising to me that Rayman ain't playable in Smash. I know for a fact that some of his games like Rayman 3 never even came out there.

Though sadly in Crash's case, you can see that the remakes nor Crash 4 were particularly successful there, it's especially shocking when you compare to how much of a monster hit N. Sane Trilogy was in western territories. But hey, being popular in Japan at one point still seems better than never being popular there at all, as seen in Rayman's case lol.

 

[Speed Weed]

Pit, Ayumi, and most melee trophies of classic characters were redesigns.

Ayumi as she appears in Melee isn't too different from the SFC remake design tbh

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Pit, Ayumi, and most melee trophies of classic characters were redesigns.

I’d say they were just adapted into 3D with minor adjustments and given a different art style, rather than being fully redesigned.

 

[LimeTH]

I'm crushed that Crash's chances have been rendered more or less nil. I have a lot of affection for the character and was really rooting for him to get into Ultimate. He was very popular in Japan, so it wasn't too unrealistic a suggestion.

The End is near.
View attachment 398232

I thought that was Ghost Planet for five seconds

 

[Dukefire]

I always felt one of the main reasons to why Crash took off in the Smash speculation scene the way he did, especially over someone like Rayman, is that he's one of the few western properties to have ever seen some sort of success in Japan at some point.

Like, each game of the original ND trilogy managed to all sell at least 600k over there, with the second game in particular selling over a million and the third one not far behind. For a western made platformer series, that's pretty amazing. Like, compare it to Rayman and...

Yeah, it really isn't surprising to me that Rayman ain't playable in Smash. I know for a fact that some of his games like Rayman 3 never even came out there.

Though sadly in Crash's case, you can see that the remakes nor Crash 4 were particularly successful there, it's especially shocking when you compare to how much of a monster hit N. Sane Trilogy was in western territories. But hey, being popular in Japan at one point still seems better than not at all, as seen in Rayman's case lol.

Crash Bandicoot (third challenger to face against Nintendo and SEGA in the Console Wars) vs Rayman (limbless thingmajig) is one of many Western side mascot battle.
Of course, character cuts are what people worry first.

Here is the Crash Victory Dance to mellow the thoughts.

 

[RileyXY1]

I’d say they were just adapted into 3D with minor adjustments and given a different art style, rather than being fully redesigned.

And in Ayumi's case she actually was intended to be playable at one point.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Thinking more about it, Sakurai probably just looked at Mach Rider’s in game sprite and just filled in the blanks from there.

 

[SPEN18]

Thinking more about it, Sakurai probably just looked at Mach Rider’s in game sprite and just filled in the blanks from there.
View attachment 398239

ya I think that's pretty much it. several of the Melee trophies are "redesigns" in the sense that they're new 3D models, and for some characters making any kind of 3D model was gonna necessitate some significant creative liberty and/or interpretation of the source material.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Surprised Takamaru didn’t get a trophy in Melee, I wonder why.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Ayumi as she appears in Melee isn't too different from the SFC remake design tbh
View attachment 398235
View attachment 398236

She was briefly considered for Melee but wasn’t for being obscure. Not 100% sure if this is the interview.

Unrelated but Banjo and James Bond weren’t stated to be considered for Melee. The latter was just Sakurai saying to a fan why he wasn’t included.

 

[Perkilator]

She was briefly considered for Melee but wasn’t for being obscure. Not 100% sure if this is the interview.

I think I heard somewhere that Ayumi's trophy would've been the one she gets for clearing Classic Mode had she been playable.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

ya I think that's pretty much it. several of the Melee trophies are "redesigns" in the sense that they're new 3D models, and for some characters making any kind of 3D model was gonna necessitate some significant creative liberty and/or interpretation of the source material.

After that they generally just recycle models which results in series like EarthBound not having any trophies that weren’t present in Brawl elsewhere. Also why Fire Emblem only had trophies from PoR and RD in Brawl outside of Lyn and Marth.

Pokemon was the opposite where they had lot of trophies but they only were able to use Brawl original artwork for the stickers.