Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[CapitaineCrash]

I've been quite inactive here in the past few months, but I wanted to discuss Kamek a bit. I was looking at the Switch generation game because I'm preparing a big prediction for the next Smash newcomers, and I think a few of them will be based on game this generation. Something that strikes me in the Mario characters is how Kamek roles was very consistant through the most recent Mario games. He was the main antagonist of Yoshi's crafted world, was the host of 2 of the 3 Mario party, had a role in Paper Mario origami king and Mario & Luigi brothership, was made playable for the first time in Mario sports game with Tennis aces and playable for the first time in Mario kart with Tour and 8 Deluxe dlc. He was also an antagonist in Mario wonder and the Mario movie. Although not Kamek specifically, Magikoopa were also enemies in Mario + Rabbids sparks of hope.

I think Kamek is super interesting because he's probably the only Mario characters that had much more appearances this generation than past generation. The other big one is Pauline, but her appeances are still limited to sports game and Mario kart aside from Odyssey, and we know that Waluigi never made the cut despite being consistent in those games so I'm not sure if she really had that much big chances. I think Kamek being consistent in RPG and having a big role in the movie really boost his chances. You could also make a case for Toad, but the thing with Toad is that aside from the movie, nothing really changed for him, while Kamek it seems that each Nintendo generation his roles in game are getting more consistent.

Any thoughts on Kamek? I think he's a really underdicussed choice.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

OK so, two things: The first is that Sakurai absolutely cares about the ESRB. It's why the whole "no realistic guns" was a thing around Brawl, and it affected the way Snake was designed. I'm also fairly certain that while CERO is on them about the ability to upskirt the girls, but censorship around things like the slit in Palutena's dress and...Tharja's design in general were brought about by the ESRB.

The second is that the ESRB's new rule is weird. You can't put in an add featuring higher rated series names, but you can give it to IGN to show everyone for some reason as seen with the Fall Guys trailer (unless that was a fluke or something that IGN did or some other technicality). Either way, it can be circumvented by just not including names. For menus and stuff, they could easily just include logos, even if it they have to make them up like they typically do.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I don’t think we’re going back to a base Smash 4 or Brawl roster size in the next game. I agree that there will likely be some cuts but I think scaling the roster back so much would make it really hard for the game to feel exciting after Ultimate. If we get a severely reduced roster, I feel like Subspace Emissary 2 is almost mandatory. Either that or the veterans we’re keeping will have to get a ton of updates to make them feel fresh and exciting. I just don’t envision a scenario where the game is mostly just Ultimate again but with way fewer characters.

As I always say: Everyone Is Here Again seems like a perfect DLC campaign. Just focus on newcomers and re-add the most popular missing veterans.

Also can't honestly think of a starting cast of less than 65 characters or so. Even if they're cutting a great deal of the roster and revamping stuff and you name it.

So say even IF popular veterans as say, Wolf, Mewtwo, Ike, Roy, Greninja, Zero Suit Samus, Rosalina, you name it get cut, I suspect the most popular ones to be back sooner or later anyway.

 

[RileyXY1]

OK so, two things: The first is that Sakurai absolutely cares about the ESRB. It's why the whole "no realistic guns" was a thing around Brawl, and it affected the way Snake was designed. I'm also fairly certain that while CERO is on them about the ability to upskirt the girls, but censorship around things like the slit in Palutena's dress and...Tharja's design in general were brought about by the ESRB.

The second is that the ESRB's new rule is weird. You can't put in an add featuring higher rated series names, but you can give it to IGN to show everyone for some reason as seen with the Fall Guys trailer (unless that was a fluke or something that IGN did or some other technicality). Either way, it can be circumvented by just not including names. For menus and stuff, they could easily just include logos, even if it they have to make them up like they typically do.

It would be weird if references to certain series, even longstanding series like Metroid, Earthbound, and Fire Emblem, have to be completely censored away. I'm concerned they won't be allowed to have stages at all if these series stuck around, like just the character and nothing else, with only E-rated series allowed to have complete representation.

 

[Gengar84]

As I always say: Everyone Is Here Again seems like a perfect DLC campaign. Just focus on newcomers and re-add the most popular missing veterans.

Also can't honestly think of a starting cast of less than 65 characters or so. Even if they're cutting a great deal of the roster and revamping stuff and you name it.

So say even IF popular veterans as say, Wolf, Mewtwo, Ike, Roy, Greninja, Zero Suit Samus, Rosalina, you name it get cut, I suspect the most popular ones to be back sooner or later anyway.

Yeah, I agree that’s a good way to do it. I just feel like DLC veterans should be separate from the newcomer focused Fighter’s Passes. Veterans don’t typically come with the same amount of content like cinematic trailers, a stage, or music so they’d feel underwhelming for a lot of people if they were expecting a brand new character.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah, I agree that’s a good way to do it. I just feel like DLC veterans should be separate from the newcomer focused Fighter’s Passes. Veterans don’t typically come with the same amount of content like cinematic trailers, a stage, or music so they’d feel underwhelming for a lot of people if they were expecting a brand new character.

Hence I think / suspect one type of approach of them could be to remove certain characters who need a huge rework anyway and then make a stylish DLC reveal trailer for them as if they're newcomers. I said Greninja before but Greninja seems fine as currently is honestly. For this approach they might just cut a character like Lucario instead. Gone missing at first, then revealed with a total different move set, or hugely revamped anyway.

I don't expect this for characters who have been suggested for changes a long time, as Ganondorf. But Lucario and maybe Bowser Jr, or Mewtwo, or even Dark Samus make a lot of sense with this approach.

 

[Amornal1]

It would be weird if references to certain series, even longstanding series like Metroid, Earthbound, and Fire Emblem, have to be completely censored away. I'm concerned they won't be allowed to have stages at all if these series stuck around, like just the character and nothing else, with only E-rated series allowed to have complete representation.

Um, no, that only applies to m rated characters. And even that could Change if Smash Bros 6 has a t rating.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Um, no, that only applies to m rated characters. And even that could Change if Smash Bros 6 has a t rating.

And I feel like Nintendo is aware enough that customers don't give a **** about ratings that they wouldn't mind making this "compromise"

 

[Amornal1]

And I feel like Nintendo is aware enough that customers don't give a **** about ratings that they wouldn't mind making this "compromise"

Exactly.

 

[Opossum]

I swear the whole "they're going to cut all of the T rated characters too!" thing is just the disguised wishful thinking of the Baby Games Only sect of chronically-online Nintendo fans.

Like no, there's genuinely no reality where you get your Platform Mascots feat Pokémon and Zelda version of Smash Bros instead of them just...upping the rating to a T if need be. If the next Smash requires them to cut Samus and Marth, there won't be a next Smash. And there will be a next Smash, so they won't drop Samus or Marth. Simple as.

 

[Amornal1]

I swear the whole "they're going to cut all of the T rated characters too!" thing is just the disguised wishful thinking of the Baby Games Only sect of chronically-online Nintendo fans.

Like no, there's genuinely no reality where you get your Platform Mascots feat Pokémon and Zelda version of Smash Bros instead of them just...upping the rating to a T if need be. If the next Smash requires them to cut Samus and Marth, there won't be a next Smash. And there will be a next Smash, so they won't drop Samus or Marth. Simple as.

Exactly what was i thinking.

 

[RileyXY1]

I highly doubt Smash will ever get a "T" rating ever again. So I'm genuinely concerned.

 

[Amornal1]

I highly doubt Smash will ever get a "T" rating ever again. So I'm genuinely concerned.

I think that we will get One.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Do I have to bring up that Astro Bot didn't need to be M-rated to have bots based on M-rated games again?

 

[Kirbeh]

Sorry guys, the next Smash is aiming to resurrect the Early Childhood rating and will feature no fighting at all.

 

[BuckleyTim]

I don't think there's a single parent out there that'd realistically care if the game where Mario beats up Pikachu is rated T instead of E10+. Maybe M, but even then

 

[Guynamednelson]

I don't think there's a single parent out there that'd realistically care if the game where Mario beats up Pikachu is rated T instead of E10+. Maybe M, but even then

Some people legitimately do care about those ESRB ratings. It's actually how the Gamecube survived the 6th gen: Parents who liked that it didn't have Halo or GTA. (never mind that it still had M-rated games like the GTA clone True Crime)

 

[MBRedboy31]

Personal anecdote: Melee and Brawl being T was the reason I was stuck with Smash 64 only for way after Brawl’s release date.
Admittedly, I was enforcing the ESRB ratings on myself rather than solely being forced to adhere to them. Still, it was very frustrating.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Do I have to bring up that Astro Bot didn't need to be M-rated to have bots based on M-rated games again?

Were the franchise names actually namedropped?

Some people legitimately do care about those ESRB ratings. It's actually how the Gamecube survived the 6th gen: Parents who liked that it didn't have Halo or GTA. (never mind that it still had M-rated games like the GTA clone True Crime)

I think that's less the ratings and more the reputation of the brands.

Any parents who got shocked at GTA being GTA is living under a rock, even back during the GameCube era. Meanwhile, Nintendo had this "family-friendly" image which was people had and still to this day deconstruct as "for babies" so it was perfect for parents. The ESRB had nothing to do with that.

An image that has very much become less "family-friendly" and more "for everyone" in these days, which is an important distinction that lets them actively fund or work on stuff like Bayonetta and Emio while still making logical sense with the brand. But some people still have the image that Nintendo is for kids despite that solely because of the past.

Funnily, the GameCube had Mortal Kombat games, and they weren't censored like in the SNES

 

[Diddy Kong]

Sorry guys, the next Smash is aiming to resurrect the Early Childhood rating and will feature no fighting at all.

No way they're ever cutting Pichu if this happens.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Maybe they could go back to how Melee labeled stages instead of how the other games labeled stages, where instead of saying the games name is says the location the stage is in.

You know, "Kanto Region: Pokemon Stadium"

It would be weird if references to certain series, even longstanding series like Metroid, Earthbound, and Fire Emblem, have to be completely censored away. I'm concerned they won't be allowed to have stages at all if these series stuck around, like just the character and nothing else, with only E-rated series allowed to have complete representation.

The ESRB is extremely inconsistent with this sort of thing anyway, im sure it wont be a big deal going forward.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

The ESRB has been owing Nintendo a big favor since they leaked all of Smash 3DS ahead of time. I'm sure the ninjas are going to have very convincing arguments

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

"Just bump up Smash to T rating lmao"

That's not how it's going to work. They can't just arbitrarily assign their own rating, they get rated based on the content that is presented.

And the idea that they'll be so meticulous to make sure they feature just enough content to warrant the T rating while at the same time making sure said content DOESN'T bump CERO to B is asinine.

We're far more likely to just not address franchises/games by name/logo anymore, which would be stupid but might have to be a necessary evil.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

"Just bump up Smash to T rating lmao"

That's not how it's going to work. They can't just arbitrarily assign their own rating, they get rated based on the content that is presented.

And the idea that they'll be so meticulous to make sure they feature just enough content to warrant the T rating while at the same time making sure said content DOESN'T bump CERO to B is asinine.

We're far more likely to just not address franchises/games by name/logo anymore, which would be stupid but might have to be a necessary evil.

Don't they just need to write "Xenoblade Chronicles" somewhere in the game or even just in the game's website in order to get the T rating?

But yeah if it was up to me I'd just drop the original games' logos. It's dumb and lame but it's not really that big of a deal.

 

[Gengar84]

"Just bump up Smash to T rating lmao"

That's not how it's going to work. They can't just arbitrarily assign their own rating, they get rated based on the content that is presented.

And the idea that they'll be so meticulous to make sure they feature just enough content to warrant the T rating while at the same time making sure said content DOESN'T bump CERO to B is asinine.

We're far more likely to just not address franchises/games by name/logo anymore, which would be stupid but might have to be a necessary evil.

I don’t think anyone is suggesting that they assign their own rating. Instead, just have Sakurai make the game he wants to make and the ERRB will rate it accordingly. If that rating ends up being a T, that’s fine. Smash has been T before.

Did CERO also change their rating criteria? If not, I think they’re fine just continuing the direction they’ve already been going for past Smash games. If they’ve gotten more strict themselves, then you probably have a point and they’d have to stop referring to series by name.

 

[Kirbeh]

So, humoring the whole ESRB thing for a moment, you technically could still make a Smash game with most series still getting accounted for.

- The Mario umbrella is all safe of course.

- The Legend of Zelda is also safe, but Twilight Princess specifically is barred from being referenced.

- Both franchises are safe.

- Safe but the two GC games are left out. (Sorry Kyrstal.)

- Safe but the Prime series and Dread are off the table.

- Safe except for content from GX.

- The first ratings cut as the most recent rating for the EB games fall under T despite being E on the Wii.

- Surprisingly, several titles are safe, including Marth's own, Radiant Dawn for Ike (but not PoR?) and the GBA titles. (Rejoice Lyn supporters.)

- All safe.

- The second franchise to be out of luck. All games are T.

The safe third parties are: * (Not all DQ's accounted for but Erdrick gets a pass and becomes the new default.)

We really ought to have series icons as smilies...

Just to clarify, I don't think this is the direction they'll go, nor do I want it, but Absolutely Safe Capsule Smash is technically doable.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Were the franchise names actually namedropped?

Most of the copyright credits don't mention the names of the games featured, but Stellar Blade, Rise of the Ronin, and Assassin's Creed (which currently doesn't have a bot, it's for the future) are specifically credited.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Yeah, this ESRB thing isn't really new, it's why our Mii Costume trailers had "Super Smash Bros. x Travis" or "Super Smash Bros. x Vault Boy" instead of mentioning No More Heroes or Fallout directly.

As for playable characters, this would only really affect Snake, Joker, and Bayonetta, wouldn't it? Since it only applies to M-rated games/series. I don't know if it only applies in advertisements or if it'd have some effect on the game itself or whatever update website they make, but like all three of these characters are coming into the next game as prospective veterans so it's unlikely they'd show up in new trailers and stuff anyway. Could potentially hamper newcomers though, since none of the Fighters Pass characters after Joker were M-rated. Then again, they could potentially also just do the "Super Smash Bros. x [insert M-rated game main character]" thing again, so...

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Sorry guys, the next Smash is aiming to resurrect the Early Childhood rating and will feature no fighting at all.

And the series' English localizations will henceforth be done by 4Kids.

"Now I understand how bad fighting really is."

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Im sure you guys are just overthinking this, i doubt they'll do any massive changes to the games in the future.

 

[YeppersPeppers]

I also recall Xenoblade Chronicles 3, 13 Sentinels: Aegis Rim, and Hades all going unnamed in-game for their respective spirits when added, with the one connection between them being they all have a Teen rating. I believe 13 Sentinels and Hades were also not directly mentioned in the in-game event announcement either. Not sure how this was for other regions outside of NA.

 

[Shinuto]

OK so, two things: The first is that Sakurai absolutely cares about the ESRB. It's why the whole "no realistic guns" was a thing around Brawl, and it affected the way Snake was designed. I'm also fairly certain that while CERO is on them about the ability to upskirt the girls, but censorship around things like the slit in Palutena's dress and...Tharja's design in general were brought about by the ESRB.

The second is that the ESRB's new rule is weird. You can't put in an add featuring higher rated series names, but you can give it to IGN to show everyone for some reason as seen with the Fall Guys trailer (unless that was a fluke or something that IGN did or some other technicality). Either way, it can be circumvented by just not including names. For menus and stuff, they could easily just include logos, even if it they have to make them up like they typically do.

This is ******* stupid to begin with, kids are bombarded by crap on the Internet and general media anyway, stop ruining everything for everyone that's not a kid

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I also recall Xenoblade Chronicles 3, 13 Sentinels: Aegis Rim, and Hades all going unnamed in-game for their respective spirits when added, with the one connection between them being they all have a Teen rating. I believe 13 Sentinels and Hades were also not directly mentioned in the in-game event announcement either. Not sure how this was for other regions outside of NA.

Honestly that one could be that this was done by a skeleton crew and Nintendo didnt care enough to get this sorted out.

 

[Diddy Kong]

This is ******* stupid to begin with, kids are bombarded by crap on the Internet and general media anyway, stop ruining everything for everyone that's not a kid

Exactly. These kids are on YouTube and Tiktok all day. It's not Smash what is gonna "ruin" them.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

I honestly think it wouldn’t anything major and especially since Astro Bot got also got a E10+ despite featuring characters like Joker, Snake, and etc.

They will probably just do a compromise and that’s it if it’s necessary.

 

[Gengar84]

Exactly. These kids are on YouTube and Tiktok all day. It's not Smash what is gonna "ruin" them.

It’s not even just kids that are being ruined by social media and TikTok. My near 70 year old father is addicted to TikTok.

 

[Golden Icarus]

Any thoughts on Kamek? I think he's a really underdicussed choice.

This year I heard someone say Kamek is Nintendo’s most significant villain still missing from Smash and I find that statement pretty difficult to dispute. King Boo? Medusa? DJ Octavio? I don’t think any of them are as recognized, or as heavily featured as Kamek, especially in recent years as you pointed out.

I also don’t think this would influence Sakurai’s decision, but Yoshi is the only character from the original 8 missing a villain / rival. For me, this makes the prospect of Kamek that much more enticing.

Spoiler: Examples

Mario -> Bowser
Link -> Ganondorf
Kirby -> Meta Knight / Dedede
Samus -> Ridley
Fox -> Wolf
Donkey Kong -> K. Rool
Pikachu -> Mewtwo (although I do think Meowth fits that label better)
Yoshi -> nothing yet

I think it’ll mainly just take Sakurai being inspired by Kamek for a moveset. He’s certainly a character Nintendo wouldn’t mind promoting, but the past two Smash games have treated the Mario series like a grab bag of iconic characters that Sakurai can draw from at his own discretion. Not only is Kamek competing with Toad and Waluigi, but everything from King Boo to Monty Mole is probably on the table. But luckily it’s also the one series that can warrant anywhere from 2 to 5 newcomers per game, so the odds still aren’t that bad.

And I do think Kamek stands out and maybe Smash 6 is the game Sakurai will finally feel compelled to expand on Yoshi content.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I honestly think it wouldn’t anything major and especially since Astro Bot got also got a E10+ despite featuring characters like Joker, Snake, and etc.

They will probably just do a compromise and that’s it if it’s necessary.

This is fair, but as far as I recall, none of the character Bots are actually named after their character? For example, Joker's is named "Phantom Thief" and I don't believe any of them mention the series they come from either.

 

[Guynamednelson]

This is fair, but as far as I recall, none of the character Bots are actually named after their character? For example, Joker's is named "Phantom Thief" and I don't believe any of them mention the series they come from either.

It's inconsistent. The credits don't censor the names of T/M-rated games, but several companies only have generic copyright credits that just mention the company. And then for some reason Namco's copyright credit only mentions Ace Combat and not their E-rated games that've been featured.

 

[Gengar84]

This year I heard someone say Kamek is Nintendo’s most significant villain still missing from Smash and I find that statement pretty difficult to dispute. King Boo? Medusa? DJ Octavio? I don’t think any of them are as recognized, or as heavily featured as Kamek, especially in recent years as you pointed out.

I also don’t think this would influence Sakurai’s decision, but Yoshi is the only character from the original 8 missing a villain / rival. For me, this makes the prospect of Kamek that much more enticing.

Spoiler: Examples

Mario -> Bowser
Link -> Ganondorf
Kirby -> Meta Knight / Dedede
Samus -> Ridley
Fox -> Wolf
Donkey Kong -> K. Rool
Pikachu -> Mewtwo (although I do think Meowth fits that label better)
Yoshi -> nothing yet

I think it’ll mainly just take Sakurai being inspired by Kamek for a moveset. He’s certainly a character Nintendo wouldn’t mind promoting, but the past two Smash games have treated the Mario series like a grab bag of iconic characters that Sakurai can draw from at his own discretion. Not only is Kamek competing with Toad and Waluigi, but everything from King Boo to Monty Mole is probably on the table. But luckily it’s also the one series that can warrant anywhere from 2 to 5 newcomers per game, so the odds still aren’t that bad.

And I do think Kamek stands out and maybe Smash 6 is the game Sakurai will finally feel compelled to expand on Yoshi content.

I was trying to come up with an example of a Nintendo villain not yet playable in Smash that was more iconic than Kamek and I couldn’t either. There are plenty I’d personally prefer but none are as generally recognizable as Kamek. Plus, he had a fun role in the Mario movie which elevates him even more. I certainly wouldn’t be opposed to seeing him even if he’s not exactly on my most wanted list. He seems like he could be a fun addition and Smash could always use more villains.