Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Swamp Sensei]

Making a Byleth moveset and not even trying to make Divine Pulse is a crime, tbh.

That'd be like Joker without Arsene.

So a moveset that isn't infuriating to play against?

 

[Ivander]

Can't speak to Marth, but the Fire Emblem isn't really all that important to Chrom's character. He mainly just wears it as a shield when you promote him to Great Lord, and IIRC, is what gives him to obtain the infinitely cooler 1,000° Falchion.

I would definitely not say "no" to a Great Lord alternate costume for Chrom though, especially if they give it the Awakened Falchion. That would be so cool.

I completely forgot he only uses the shield as a Great Lord, cause I could've sworn he starts using the shield, regardless of being unpromoted or promoted, after the chapter when he is given it.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Or Mario without the Ground Pound. Or Pikachu without Thundershock. Or Ness without PSI Rockin'. Or Marth or Chrom without the Fire Emblem. Or Simon without the Knife...or was that Arthur?

Ground Pound ? Eh maybe. If we do Aerial Smash attacks, definitely. I mostly want Mario to have a Stomp D Air Dr.Mario has. And Down B not being FLUDD but the Mario Tornado or something else.

Pikachu with Thunder Shock? Functionally the Thunder Jolt is quite similar. I'd rather have Thunder Bolt, and it being a chargeable high damage projectile. Thunder Jolt is fine if we had a better Side B for Pikachu. Skull Bash shouldn't be it.

Ness PSI Rockin' is a definite yes though.

Marth without the Fire Emblem is a possibility, Chrom not so much. I generally always advocate for Lucina and Chrom being like their Great Lord Awakening classes, and them being Echoes of each other instead of Marth and Roy.

I doubt Marth is gonna change much however. Him not having the Fire Emblem as a shield and being the second swordsman included after Link might have a lot to do with it.

My biggest gripe however is Mewtwo not having Psychic or Psy Strike, but low level psychic attacks as Confusion and Disable. I'd settle for Psycho Cut even.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Ground Pound is more of Yoshi's thing. Yeah every Mario character can do it, but Yoshi created it back in Mario World 2.

I actually agree with the decision to give it to Yoshi and not Mario.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

(is 40 really the most common number that you see tossed around?)

I personally think ~50 is very reasonable, as it's SSB4's number and that game was two games in a trench coat.

Ground Pound is more of Yoshi's thing. Yeah every Mario character can do it, but Yoshi created it back in Mario World 2.

I actually agree with the decision to give it to Yoshi and not Mario.

At the time, I agree, as Yoshi started out with it, and Mario had only recently gained it in Super Mario 64. Nowadays though it's become a huge part of Mario's depth when it comes to mobility, so he should absolutely have it.

This comes with the caveat of it actually being a utility mobility move instead of Yoshi Bomber and Bowser Bomb that trade usability outside of the casual environment and niche use cases in favor of being able to kill really early (and IIRC, not even that in Yoshi Bomber's case).

I completely forgot he only uses the shield as a Great Lord, cause I could've sworn he starts using the shield, regardless of being unpromoted or promoted, after the chapter when he is given it.

I believe it shows up in the beginning of the game and is an important plot point since you need to go out and get the mcguffins to power it so that might be why.

 

[Ivander]

I believe it shows up in the beginning of the game and is an important plot point since you need to go out and get the mcguffins to power it so that might be why.

It does appear near the beginning, but it's not given to Chrom until the Chapter when his sister gives it to him to protect it while she goes to do what she can to save any survivors she can find or something along that lines. Chrom then keeps it until Robin gets mind controlled to take it from Chrom for Validar near the end of the game, then they get it back after defeating Validar shortly after just before Grima comes back. Sure, it's not always with Chrom, but for most of the game, Chrom has it on him.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Or Pikachu without Thundershock.

Do you mean Thunderbolt since Thundershock isn’t really associated with Pikachu outside of early levels.

Thunderbolt is always used by Pikachu in the anime in almost every episode while it’s replaced by Thunder in Smash.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Thunderbolt isn't really present on Pikachu. It's not "replaced by Thunder" either. They're essentially different moves. And Pikachu can learn that too. Thunder Jolt is the only move not from the games, and the origin isn't really clear at all. While the name alone could come from a mistranslation in the card game, the actual animation doesn't have a hard basis. We at most have seen Pikachu able to do a very tiny spark in one episode of the anime, but that's not entirely it. The move looks to be more of a simple projectile to balance out Pikachu's bigger strengths.

Apparently the Forward Smash is called Thundershock, but I can't find a source on it outside of Smash Wiki. It might've been from one of the older websites or guides, though. Albeit, the guides are notable for having made-up stuff, so grain of salt. Being it's an extremely powerful full ball of electricity, it still works as a name. Especially since the various electrical moves don't often have unique animations even in the anime.

(Well, at least the original SSB website does list it as a specific move. Though funnily enough Thundershock is still the name of the Forward Smash, and Thunder Shock is the name of the Custom Special. It's not the first time things share names, but with a space between 'em, though. A lot of works do that in order to separate things. Transformers did that for a comic due to having more than 1 of a same named character, via a slightly different letter(K to C for instance), or a space, or a hyphen, etc).

 

[Amornal1]

Could m rated characters enter even with the new esrb rule?

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Could m rated characters enter even with the new esrb rule?

What new rule?

 

[Amornal1]

What new rule?

This One: https://www.reddit.com/r/SmashBrosUltimate/s/SWyE3a54kA

 

[Thegameandwatch]

This One: https://www.reddit.com/r/SmashBrosUltimate/s/SWyE3a54kA

I feel like there would be a workaround if a M rated series has T or E10 games.

 

[Amornal1]

I feel like there would be a workaround if a M rated series has T or E10 games.

According to him, even t rated games would be affected because fortnite has the same problem. Even so, i still think m rated characters could enter, even if they can't mention the franchise.

 

[fogbadge]

My biggest gripe however is Mewtwo not having Psychic or Psy Strike, but low level psychic attacks as Confusion and Disable. I'd settle for Psycho Cut even.

Isn't Psy Strike his final smash?

 

[RileyXY1]

According to him, even t rated games would be affected because fortnite has the same problem. Even so, i still think m rated characters could enter, even if they can't mention the franchise.

I don't think Sakurai would want to add a character if he can't even mention what series they came from out of fear of Smash getting slapped with an M rating. Unfortunately Smash might end up becoming a game that solely represents E rated games.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

I don't think Sakurai would want to add a character if he can't even mention what series they came from out of fear of Smash getting slapped with an M rating. Unfortunately Smash might end up becoming a game that solely represents E rated games.

Not even sure if the rule applies to Cero (Japan) so it could just be a localization thing where it’s not mentioned in the American region settings.

 

[RileyXY1]

Not even sure if the rule applies to Cero (Japan) so it could just be a localization thing where it’s not mentioned in the American region settings.

It's still something I don't think Sakurai would do to avoid compromising his creative vision for Smash. So I think there will be a massive cut down of the roster, along with severe limitations on exactly who can get in so that Smash isn't slapped with an M rating. I do think that Ultimate itself, along with Smash 4 and even Brawl will get an M rating if they are ever rereleased.

 

[PersonAngelo53]

I feel like there would be a workaround if a M rated series has T or E10 games.

Hopefully the next smash is T rated like Brawl so this is somewhat less of a problem at least.

 

[Amornal1]

It's still something I don't think Sakurai would do to avoid compromising his creative vision for Smash. So I think there will be a massive cut down of the roster, along with severe limitations on exactly who can get in so that Smash isn't slapped with an M rating. I do think that Ultimate itself, along with Smash 4 and even Brawl will get an M rating if they are ever rereleased.

I still think that sakurai could do that. Also, Smash Bros it's more focused to the japanese market that the global market. Also, if the mii costumes could get a pass, i think that the characters could also get a pass.

 

[BritishGuy54]

I don't think Sakurai would want to add a character if he can't even mention what series they came from out of fear of Smash getting slapped with an M rating. Unfortunately Smash might end up becoming a game that solely represents E rated games.

If that’s the case, say goodbye to Metroid, Fire Emblem, Mother (Earthbound), and Xenoblade from getting in the roster.

It's still something I don't think Sakurai would do to avoid compromising his creative vision for Smash. So I think there will be a massive cut down of the roster, along with severe limitations on exactly who can get in so that Smash isn't slapped with an M rating. I do think that Ultimate itself, along with Smash 4 and even Brawl will get an M rating if they are ever rereleased.

I agree it’s something Sakurai won’t compromise his creative vision for.

But I think there’s a clear choice between possibly losing half of the roster by remaining E10+, and losing 3 characters maximum by boosting up to a T rating.

Or we end up no longer having games directly referenced in the game. Ultimate came at a weird time where we had to go in the middle, but a new game? It’s all or nothing, in my opinion.

Considering how some people claim Ultimate was already pitiful without descriptions for Spirits, imagine the reaction to games no longer being referenced through Spirits OR stages.

 

[Amornal1]

If that’s the case, say goodbye to Metroid, Fire Emblem, Mother (Earthbound), and Xenoblade from getting in the roster.

I agree it’s something Sakurai won’t compromise his creative vision for.

But I think there’s a clear choice between possibly losing half of the roster by remaining E10+, and losing 3 characters maximum by boosting up to a T rating.

Or we end up no longer having games directly referenced in the game. Ultimate came at a weird time where we had to go in the middle, but a new game? It’s all or nothing, in my opinion.

Considering how some people claim Ultimate was already pitiful without descriptions for Spirits, imagine the reaction to games no longer being referenced through Spirits OR stages.

I mean, i dont think that these characters should have spirits or stages. Also, i dont think that these franchises would be affected, and i still think that Smash Bros Will get at least One or two new m rated characters.

 

[Gengar84]

I agree that since the new ESRB rule prevents E rated games from mentioning M rated games, Sakurai would more likely just make Smash T rated again like it has been before. Otherwise, I have no idea what they’d do about Bayonetta. They can’t use the same “Smash X Dante” trick they used for Devil May Cry since Bayonetta’s both the character and series name.

 

[Amornal1]

I agree that since the new ESRB rule prevents E rated games from mentioning M rated games, Sakurai would more likely just make Smash T rated again like it has been before. Otherwise, I have no idea what they’d do about Bayonetta. They can’t use the same “Smash X Dante” trick they used for Devil May Cry since Bayonetta’s both the character and series name.

Yeah, i think that Smash Bros should be t rated too.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Sakurai would more likely just make Smash T rated again like it has been before

He's not in charge of the ESRB rating, he just cares about CERO. And Astro Bot having M-rated series being given bots didn't prevent it from having the family-friendly ratings Smash aims for. For that matter the Japanese presentations didn't have "Dante from DANTE", it still referred to M-rated series with their actual names.

 

[Gengar84]

He's not in charge of the ESRB rating, he just cares about CERO. And Astro Bot having M-rated series being given bots didn't prevent it from having the family-friendly ratings Smash aims for. For that matter the Japanese presentations didn't have "Dante from DANTE", it still referred to M-rated series with their actual names.

What I mean is that he won’t stress too much about making the game adhere to ESRB E rating standards if it means compromising his vision. I know he doesn’t actually rate the game himself.

 

[fogbadge]

smash is rated for teens over here

 

[Guynamednelson]

What I mean is that he won’t stress too much about making the game adhere to ESRB E rating standards if it means compromising his vision. I know he doesn’t actually rate the game himself.

He already doesn't care about the ESRB rating. He just wants Japanese gamers to understand children can play this game without worrying about it being too explicit.

 

[Stratos]

I believe that any video game character, even M-rated ones, is welcome in the Super Smash Bros. series, as long as they don't show or mention content that isn't family-friendly.

 

[Gengar84]

I believe that any video game character, even M-rated ones, is welcome in the Super Smash Bros. series, as long as they don't show or mention content that isn't family-friendly.

Same here. It might just affect the age rating over here but Smash has been T rated before so I don’t think that’s a huge issue.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Same here. It might just affect the age rating over here but Smash has been T rated before so I don’t think that’s a huge issue.

Honestly I never though Smash deserved its T ratings.

Melee was only T-rated because during the early 2000s someone at the ESRB had a thing for giving T ratings to games that either barely deserved one or really shouldn't have one because they were meant for kids. (The E10+ rating was made to calm that guy down). Brawl only had it because of blood in one cutscene. One.

 

[BuckleyTim]

I definitely think the ersb shenanigans will lead to a few weird compromises in the future but if they still kept Dante and dragonborn/doomguy in the mii costume pipeline after that then I don't think the ersb is going to jeopardize any one ip's chances of getting into smash. Like yes, a mii costume is a lot less to juggle than a full pack but I don't think you'd include those costumes and a wink to their popularity with smash die-hards only to go "sorry guys the rule that was instated before we showed you the honorable mention stuff suddenly matters that much, shrug".

 

[Diddy Kong]

Isn't Psy Strike his final smash?

Oh.. Guess that's right. I never play with them. And it's so underpowered it might as well be part of his regular move set.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Could m rated characters enter even with the new esrb rule?

Im sure nintendo has enough money to "bend" the rules for playable characters.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I believe I've kracked the code.
Here's what I believe is a very good encapsulation of what the next game's roster is going to look like according to the thread's general consensus.

Spoiler

Mario
Luigi
Bowser
Peach
Daisy
Rosalina
Yoshi
Wario
Waluigi
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
Link
Zelda
Ganondorf
Toon Link
Impa
Samus
Ridley
Kirby
Meta Knight
Dedede
Bandana Dee
Fox
Pikachu
Lucario
Greninja
Charizard
Gen 10 Pokémon
Ness
Captain Falcon
Marth
Lucina
Ike
Robin
Byleth
Alear
Ice Climbers
Mr. Game & Watch
Pit
Dark Pit
Palutena
Olimar
Oatchi
ROB
Villager
Isabelle
Tom Nook
Little Mac
Shulk
Pyra/Mythra
Noah
Inkling
Octoling
Ring Fit Trainer
Isaac
Sonic
Shadow
Megaman
Pac-man
Ryu
Ken
Monster Hunter
Sans
Mii Fighters

45 veterans, 13 newcomers, a bunch of echoes and the Mii Fighters.
I tried to keep as many as possible of the most commonly considered safe veterans inside the most commonly deemed likely number of veterans (40 something), and I added the newcomers that are usually seen as particularly likely.

My question is... Would you find something like this actually exciting?
To be perfectly honest, I'm pretty sure I'd kinda hate this.

Other than there being too many cuts, the newcomer selection could be more exciting. The newcomers are pretty good individually, but I would want some surprising, in a good way, newcomers.

 

[Opossum]

I believe I've kracked the code.
Here's what I believe is a very good encapsulation of what the next game's roster is going to look like according to the thread's general consensus.

Spoiler

Mario
Luigi
Bowser
Peach
Daisy
Rosalina
Yoshi
Wario
Waluigi
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
Link
Zelda
Ganondorf
Toon Link
Impa
Samus
Ridley
Kirby
Meta Knight
Dedede
Bandana Dee
Fox
Pikachu
Lucario
Greninja
Charizard
Gen 10 Pokémon
Ness
Captain Falcon
Marth
Lucina
Ike
Robin
Byleth
Alear
Ice Climbers
Mr. Game & Watch
Pit
Dark Pit
Palutena
Olimar
Oatchi
ROB
Villager
Isabelle
Tom Nook
Little Mac
Shulk
Pyra/Mythra
Noah
Inkling
Octoling
Ring Fit Trainer
Isaac
Sonic
Shadow
Megaman
Pac-man
Ryu
Ken
Monster Hunter
Sans
Mii Fighters

45 veterans, 13 newcomers, a bunch of echoes and the Mii Fighters.
I tried to keep as many as possible of the most commonly considered safe veterans inside the most commonly deemed likely number of veterans (40 something), and I added the newcomers that are usually seen as particularly likely.

My question is... Would you find something like this actually exciting?
To be perfectly honest, I'm pretty sure I'd kinda hate this.

I agree with Louie G. Something like this as a framework would honestly be fine by me, and it's mostly just specific choices here that feel off. Like I'm sorry I cannot see a world where they cut all of K. Rool, Min Min, Cloud, Snake, and Terry, but keep Toon Link of all characters lol. And then just specific irksome newcomer choices. But the framework is fine.

You could probably reasonably add five characters and still be in the range of realism and I think they'd go a long way, though any more than that would push things.

 

[Shinuto]

I don't think Sakurai would want to add a character if he can't even mention what series they came from out of fear of Smash getting slapped with an M rating. Unfortunately Smash might end up becoming a game that solely represents E rated games.

If that happens Id seriously consider gettingg the idiots responsible for it banned from any type of authority.

 

[Gengar84]

I don’t think we’re going back to a base Smash 4 or Brawl roster size in the next game. I agree that there will likely be some cuts but I think scaling the roster back so much would make it really hard for the game to feel exciting after Ultimate. If we get a severely reduced roster, I feel like Subspace Emissary 2 is almost mandatory. Either that or the veterans we’re keeping will have to get a ton of updates to make them feel fresh and exciting. I just don’t envision a scenario where the game is mostly just Ultimate again but with way fewer characters.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

I haven't posted here in a while, but something I thought was interesting

Stardew Valley - Press

www.stardewvalley.net

The most recent sales update for Stardew Valley says it's sold over 40 million copies, 8 million of which were on Switch. That makes it one of the most successful indie games of all time, and I would say is as strong an indication as any that it's effectively supplanted Harvest Moon itself. I think if indie content expands in the next Smash game, Stardew Valley getting some form of representation is very likely, I could see at least a music track getting in or whatever the collectible is next game.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I believe I've kracked the code.
Here's what I believe is a very good encapsulation of what the next game's roster is going to look like according to the thread's general consensus.

Spoiler

Mario
Luigi
Bowser
Peach
Daisy
Rosalina
Yoshi
Wario
Waluigi
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
Link
Zelda
Ganondorf
Toon Link
Impa
Samus
Ridley
Kirby
Meta Knight
Dedede
Bandana Dee
Fox
Pikachu
Lucario
Greninja
Charizard
Gen 10 Pokémon
Ness
Captain Falcon
Marth
Lucina
Ike
Robin
Byleth
Alear
Ice Climbers
Mr. Game & Watch
Pit
Dark Pit
Palutena
Olimar
Oatchi
ROB
Villager
Isabelle
Tom Nook
Little Mac
Shulk
Pyra/Mythra
Noah
Inkling
Octoling
Ring Fit Trainer
Isaac
Sonic
Shadow
Megaman
Pac-man
Ryu
Ken
Monster Hunter
Sans
Mii Fighters

45 veterans, 13 newcomers, a bunch of echoes and the Mii Fighters.
I tried to keep as many as possible of the most commonly considered safe veterans inside the most commonly deemed likely number of veterans (40 something), and I added the newcomers that are usually seen as particularly likely.

My question is... Would you find something like this actually exciting?
To be perfectly honest, I'm pretty sure I'd kinda hate this.

Not bad.

Personally I'd replace Ice Climbers with Mewtwo in a heartbeat but this is quite solid.

Other big omissions: King K.Rool, Bowser Jr. and Jigglypuff.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Isn't Psy Strike his final smash?

Yes.