Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[SMAASH! Puppy]

"Just bump up Smash to T rating lmao"

That's not how it's going to work. They can't just arbitrarily assign their own rating, they get rated based on the content that is presented.

And the idea that they'll be so meticulous to make sure they feature just enough content to warrant the T rating while at the same time making sure said content DOESN'T bump CERO to B is asinine.

We're far more likely to just not address franchises/games by name/logo anymore, which would be stupid but might have to be a necessary evil.

I think it's more not censoring to bring it back down to E10+ if including names gets the game slapped with a T rating.

So, humoring the whole ESRB thing for a moment, you technically could still make a Smash game with most series still getting accounted for.

- The Mario umbrella is all safe of course.

- The Legend of Zelda is also safe, but Twilight Princess specifically is barred from being referenced.

- Both franchises are safe.

- Safe but the two GC games are left out. (Sorry Kyrstal.)

- Safe but the Prime series and Dread are off the table.

- Safe except for content from GX.

- The first ratings cut as the most recent rating for the EB games fall under T despite being E on the Wii.

- Surprisingly, several titles are safe, including Marth's own, Radiant Dawn for Ike (but not PoR?) and the GBA titles. (Rejoice Lyn supporters.)

- All safe.

- The second franchise to be out of luck. All games are T.

The safe third parties are: * (Not all DQ's accounted for but Erdrick gets a pass and becomes the new default.)

We really ought to have series icons as smilies...

Just to clarify, I don't think this is the direction they'll go, nor do I want it, but Absolutely Safe Capsule Smash is technically doable.

It's worth noting that series names mainly show up for the music menu, Spirit/trophy descriptions, and in Ultimate, on the stage select screen. Since you could easily get away with simply removing the series names in the latter two places, content from T rated games in otherwise E rated series would be perfectly fine.

So like, you can't say Metroid Dread, but you can give Samus the Dread Suit as an alternate costume.

This is ******* stupid to begin with, kids are bombarded by crap on the Internet and general media anyway, stop ruining everything for everyone that's not a kid

Yeah it really is super arbitrary, but the damage done to Smash at least should be minimal.

Amusingly, if the idea was that they'd be introduced to adult content by a kids game due to it mentioning said content, the kids will probably still have to go onto the internet to check it out proper. It really isn't the game's fault for the child getting traumatized in any sort of scenario that you can think of for this law existing.

 

[BuckleyTim]

I can't hate anyone for liking Kamek, but man I could not care less about him. Honestly? I think I'm at the point where I don't really want to see any new Mario characters in the next roster tbh (sorry Waluigi). No fancy reasoning here, I'm just content with the Mario characters we have in smash and would rather do something that interests me more than selecting the next most recoccuring Mario guy and getting them in
Heck, this might even apply to a lot more of the mainstay franchises...

 

[Guynamednelson]

It's inconsistent. The credits don't censor the names of T/M-rated games, but several companies only have generic copyright credits that just mention the company. And then for some reason Namco's copyright credit only mentions Ace Combat and not their E-rated games that've been featured.

And for future reference for the next bimonthly Oh No They're Going To Cut All The T/M-Rated Characters debate, here's all the T/M-rated series mentioned in Astro Bot's credits:

• Ace Combat
• Legacy of Kain
• Tomb Raider
• Kena: Bridge of Spirits
• Oddworld
• Worms
• Stellar Blade
• Rise of the Ronin
• Beyond Good & Evil
• Assassin's Creed

 

[BuckleyTim]

Bro you guys gotta stop casually spoiling the surprise guests in Astro bot

I don't have a PS5 so I'm learning like at least 20 third party bots' existence just from you guys listing them with zero spoiler tags lmao

 

[Guynamednelson]

Bro you guys gotta stop casually spoiling the surprise guests in Astro bot

I don't have a PS5 so I'm learning like at least 20 third party bots' existence just from you guys listing them with zero spoiler tags lmao

It's okay, the BG&E and Assassin's Creed credits are futureproofing for later DLC anyway

 

[Louie G.]

I’m on my way out so maybe I’ll talk more about it later, but I’ve had Kamek on the mind too. I think he’s quite a solid choice. That being said…

I can’t help but shake that he’s missing that “it” factor. How many big vocal Kamek fans are there out there (not even talking about the Smash community here, but the Mario fan community)? How much do we really see him plastered in Mario cast shots and merchandise, despite his frequent appearances? He’s in a weird position where he is technically a major character, but also sort of blends into the background a lot.

That shouldn’t disqualify him on its own - that in-game prominence is valuable and frankly I think he could be super unique. But position Kamek against someone thematically similar say, King Boo and honestly the choice isn’t particularly close to me (I would pick King Boo).

 

[Gengar84]

I can't hate anyone for liking Kamek, but man I could not care less about him. Honestly? I think I'm at the point where I don't really want to see any new Mario characters in the next roster tbh (sorry Waluigi). No fancy reasoning here, I'm just content with the Mario characters we have in smash and would rather do something that interests me more than selecting the next most recoccuring Mario guy and getting them in
Heck, this might even apply to a lot more of the mainstay franchises...

I mostly agree. I’d still love Goomba because they’re my favorite mook in any game but I do worry about the Smash roster being overloaded with Mario and Mario-adjacent characters, especially in the event we scale back the roster but keep all the Mario characters. I really like the Mario games but I always prefer varied representation compared to focusing too much on any one series or subseries in particular. I’m not really opposed to more Mario characters but I wouldn’t really get hyped about almost any of them at this point either.

 

[Kirbeh]

I used to not care for Kamek at all, but I'm warmed up to the idea over the years. Still not my first choice for a new Mario character, but I'd be happy if he got in.

As for who we've got now, I'm not really satisfied with the lineup (Toad and Wah at least are still musts imo) or portrayals, but I guess I could say I'm content? I'd be fine if we had the exact same Mario characters next time around, without additions and even with a cut or two. I wouldn't be happy about it, but it'd be fine.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Kamek is a nondescript character that somehow has a whole lot of and almost no notoriety simultaneously. As a pick, they make sense, but are pretty meh.

As a smash fighter though, they'd go super hard because they can do a heck of a lot of cool stuff with his magic, and his flavor of mage is basic, but actually quite novel as our only other mages are princesses, and a sword & sorcery type.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I kind of agree on the sentiment that Kamek as a concept would be interesting for Smash, but he just doesn't have that pop-out "wow" factor in general. He's just kinda "there".

 

[Golden Icarus]

To bully Kamek a bit more, can you imagine a Kamek reveal being anything more than the least viewed newcomer trailer? Who is gonna jump out of their seat when they hear Kamek is in the next Smash? It really is difficult to imagine many people lining up for such an event.

I also don't know if "he was the host of the most recent Mario Party" is really doing him any favors. That seems to be a role exclusively given to characters that they can get away with excluding from the playable roster. Take it from a Toad supporter - unfortunately 'number of Mario Party games hosted' isn't the criteria they seem to use when selecting Smash newcomers.

 

[HyperSomari64]

And for future reference for the next bimonthly Oh No They're Going To Cut All The T/M-Rated Characters debate, here's all the T/M-rated series mentioned in Astro Bot's credits:

• Ace Combat
• Legacy of Kain
• Tomb Raider
• Kena: Bridge of Spirits
• Oddworld
• Worms
• Stellar Blade
• Rise of the Ronin
• Beyond Good & Evil
• Assassin's Creed

I want Worms as an assist trophy so badly.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Kamek falls into that unfortunate category of being a character that could have popped up in something like 64 or even Melee was an unexpected wacky addition that that the burgeoning Smash audience would have probably accepted, but now with the series being so defined by hype and selections of some significance (cultural, financial, fandom) that if were to show up? It would be hard to escape a sense by many that he's a letdown, despite the fact that his magic could have a lot potential attack wise. It almost feels like his best chance would be as a Pirahna Plant esque bonus fighter, thus not feeling too unworthy as an outright base game selection nor being seen as a big rip-off via inclusion in a fighter's pass.

It's also funny how much the guy struggles with popping up in any of the spin-offs until relatively recently. Presumably there's an alternate universe out there where he got into the final version of Mario Kart 64 and became a mainstay in numerous multiplayer oriented Mario games to the point of getting high demand in Smash.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I want Worms as an assist trophy so badly.

I see the vision

 

[Shinuto]

It'll never happen but I'd love a core crystal item to summon blades from xenoblade

 

[SPEN18]

Yeah Kamek definitely has merit and is likely to always be a player of some sort in the Mario brand. No doubt he could be an interesting fighter, too. In a less competitive series, a candidate of his type would probably look pretty good, but it's difficult to put a pin on what might move him to the top of the list of potential Marioverse reps. Chronically overshadowed, it seems.

 

[ninjahmos]

I wouldn't mind Kamek, but I don't think he has enough of a following to be playable in Smash.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Here's a topic, what characters do you think would make good Mii costumes?

I got one:

I think a Ryo mii would look nice.

 

[ninjahmos]

Here's a topic, what characters do you think would make good Mii costumes?

How about Captain Commando?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Dixie Kong
Bandana Waddle Dee
Toad
Kamek
Impa

Are these the characters that are uncountably popular and important but just lack sauce?!?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think a Ryo mii would look nice.

I thought that was a picture of Shenmou at first.

Dixie Kong
Bandana Waddle Dee
Toad
Kamek
Impa

Are these the characters that are uncountably popular and important but just lack sauce?!?

Depends on what you mean. All of them have the potential to be pretty cool mechanically, though Bandana Waddle Dee is the most likely to be kinda basic. As far as making a splash, Impa, Dixie Kong, and Toad could (though the latter would probably rely on presentation), but I do think that the other characters would at best just get a "Nice." from the community.

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

Since he's a legit Never Ever as an actual character I'd love to have a De Blob Assist Trophy where he locks on to opponents and slams down on them. Burying them plus having the "splatted" mechanic appear on a non-Splatoon character.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I thought that was a picture of Shenmou at first.


Depends on what you mean. All of them have the potential to be pretty cool mechanically, though Bandana Waddle Dee is the most likely to be kinda basic. As far as making a splash, Impa, Dixie Kong, and Toad could (though the latter would probably rely on presentation), but I do think that the other characters would at best just get a "Nice." from the community.

Its is related to Shenmue, it's just Ryo's art from Project x zone 2.

 

[Gengar84]

Dixie Kong
Bandana Waddle Dee
Toad
Kamek
Impa

Are these the characters that are uncountably popular and important but just lack sauce?!?

I think both Dixie Kong and Impa have a ton of potential for really unique and interesting movesets but most people dismiss them as echoes of Diddy and Sheik. The other three are important and could be fun but aren’t quite as interesting to me despite being deserving.

 

[Golden Icarus]

Dixie Kong
Bandana Waddle Dee
Toad
Kamek
Impa

Are these the characters that are uncountably popular and important but just lack sauce?!?

Meowth. So lacking in sauce he isn't even mentioned within these groups anymore, lol

Although to be fair "popular" isn't the word I'd use to describe Kamek (and I would only hesitantly apply that label to Toad or Impa, given the popular competition within their series). But there will always be this list of characters who on paper are incredibly significant and recognizable within their home series, but just don't "sparkle." And frankly, we all know who these characters are.

Being left out of Smash because you can't pass the vibe check is such a bummer.

 

[Guynamednelson]

So lacking in sauce he isn't even mentioned within these groups anymore, lol

His only sauce was from still having a role in the anime. A role that's now gone with Horizons focusing on an all-new cast with new partners Pokemon.

 

[NintenRob]

People who say Kamek lacks sauce need to fight him in Dream Team and Paper Jam. His boss fight in those games are incredible and really show off what the Magikoopa can do. Also, his brief appearance in Galaxy goes hard, Smashing Mario into orbit.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Since he's a legit Never Ever as an actual character I'd love to have a De Blob Assist Trophy where he locks on to opponents and slams down on them. Burying them plus having the "splatted" mechanic appear on a non-Splatoon character.

As one of the few de Blob fans on this site that I'm aware of, I love this idea and want to see it implemented into the next SSB.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Its is related to Shenmue, it's just Ryo's art from Project x zone 2.

Yeeah I also forgot Ryo was the dude's name. lol

I only know about Shenmue in passing.

People who say Kamek lacks sauce need to fight him in Dream Team and Paper Jam. His boss fight in those games are incredible and really show off what the Magikoopa can do. Also, his brief appearance in Galaxy goes hard, Smashing Mario into orbit.

His fight in Dream Team is instantly what I think of every time he's brought up.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I think Shenmue has enough notoriety to have something of it in smash brothers.

But i dont think it should be a character or anything.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Dixie Kong
Bandana Waddle Dee
Toad
Kamek
Impa

Are these the characters that are uncountably popular and important but just lack sauce?!?

Throw Eevee on the list.

A popular Pokémon in general, but has such little sauce on its own (outside Partner Moves) that people have to force in the evolutions in some form just to make it look appealing.
And fail miserably trying.

 

[Golden Icarus]

His only sauce was from still having a role in the anime. A role that's now gone with Horizons focusing on an all-new cast with new partners Pokemon.

I don't think Meowth is getting into Smash anytime soon and I don't wanna get caught typing a whole essay, but the anime isn't the only argument for Meowth in Smash, even though it's the primary incentive. He's one of the easiest Pokemon to find merchandise of. He's also one of three unevolved Pokemon to receive a gigantimax form and the only Pokemon to have two different regional forms. And these are things that he gained just within the past decade.

The Pokemon Company still clearly views him as significant beyond his role in the anime. He isn't as popular as Charizard or Mewtwo, but gets a lot of the same favoritism.

 

[fogbadge]

Dixie Kong
Bandana Waddle Dee
Toad
Kamek
Impa

Are these the characters that are uncountably popular and important but just lack sauce?!?

well if I was to listen to the more paranoid regions of my brain i'd say it's cause sakurai hates me

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Throw Eevee on the list.

A popular Pokémon in general, but has such little sauce on its own (outside Partner Moves) that people have to force in the evolutions in some form just to make it look appealing.
And fail miserably trying.

I still think the manga Eevee idea had some merit.

But it's something Nintendo would never go for since it requires referencing the manga.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I still think the manga Eevee idea had some merit.

But it's something Nintendo would never go for since it requires referencing the manga.

It's still as I said, forcing in the evolutions.

For a gimmick that completely goes against the games (evolution and "de-evolution" at will).

 

[fogbadge]

I still think the manga Eevee idea had some merit.

But it's something Nintendo would never go for since it requires referencing the manga.

hey the mangas nearly decided the mascot

 

[NintenRob]

I mean, Eevee's whole thing is it's evolution. It makes sense that The Moveset would involve it's evolutions in some way.

That said, I wouldn't have Eevee turn into the evolutions, but rather have them pop up for certain attacks (specials and Smash attacks) and of course the Zmove final smash

 

[Guynamednelson]

God I wish I could have some other Pokemon I have the tiniest bit of faith in joining Smash that isn't from Gen 9.

 

[NintenRob]

God I wish I could have some other Pokemon I have the tiniest bit of faith in joining Smash that isn't from Gen 9.

Would you settle for gen 10?

 

[Ivander]

For a gimmick that completely goes against the games (evolution and "de-evolution" at will).

For the video games, sure. But the card games?