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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Guynamednelson

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I feel like Sakurai would totally choose Shadow. He loves Iori, he created Meta Knight and Dark Pit, he has a thing for the whole edgy rival type.
I kinda feel like people are exaggerating how much of an edgelord Sakurai really is. He's still the creator of Kirby, we got Terry over Iori even though I'm sure SNK would be fine with either, and Dark Pit was actually supposed to be a parody of dark-colored edgy rivals.
 

Louie G.

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I have to disagree with this point here. In terms of advertising Nintendo has been using the Dread design ever since it's release, including the recent Nintendo Museum where they used it alongside her classic varia design rather then ignore it entirely. It also has been very popularly received and accepted by the fandom so it wouldn't face much resistance in switching over to it, particularly when compared to the Other M design which was controversial even separate of its home game's reception.
Fair enough, although we will be seeing a lot of her more traditional Prime design come next year so I guess it depends when some of these decisions were being made. Dread being squashed between two other more conventionally designed Samus makes me feel like it'd be unfitting by the time Smash 6 actually does roll around. But I'll eat my words on that if I'm wrong, I just have a hard time seeing it as the default unless it's more of a Dread-influenced Varia Suit.

I'm sure it will be a prominently featured alternate costume regardless, and maybe even souped up like Meta Ridley to have distinctive properties rather than just being a simple palette swap. Improving the standards for costumes next game would make this debate pretty moot. Although if they don't mind spoilers, I think there's another costume I'd rather see get that kind of special treatment from Dread.
 
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TheFirstPoppyBro

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Well, this might not be a good question to ask, but...

If there WAS another ballot for Smash Bros., who would you all personally vote for?

Even though it may be best for there to not be a second ballot.
If he's not playable in the next game (AKA the likely scenario, but I have a little copium lol), I'd probably vote for Starfy again. I did it the first time, so might as well keep it going.
 

CannonStreak

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If he's not playable in the next game (AKA the likely scenario, but I have a little copium lol), I'd probably vote for Starfy again. I did it the first time, so might as well keep it going.
That is a good way to approach this. Even if there is no ballot in the future, I like this mind set.

After all, if first you don't succeed, try again.
 

fogbadge

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I feel like Sakurai would totally choose Shadow. He loves Iori, he created Meta Knight and Dark Pit, he has a thing for the whole edgy rival type.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed

Dark Pit was actually supposed to be a parody of dark-colored edgy rivals.
evidently using the older meaning of parody where it was basically just reference
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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That is a good way to approach this. Even if there is no ballot in the future, I like this mind set.

After all, if first you don't succeed, try again.
Like I said, I'm on a little bit of copium because the three non-playable first party series in Smash with the most Spirits in Ultimate I'm pretty sure are Golden Sun, Rhythm Heaven, and Starfy, but yeah not anticipating anything realistically lol

I still remember during Smash 4 speculation when Starfy got revealed as an Assist Trophy on Christmas morning and I'm not going through that again lmao
 

Kirbeh

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I kinda feel like people are exaggerating how much of an edgelord Sakurai really is. He's still the creator of Kirby, we got Terry over Iori even though I'm sure SNK would be fine with either, and Dark Pit was actually supposed to be a parody of dark-colored edgy rivals.
Nah, he's a repressed edgelord. :4pacman:

That said, I could see Shadow being passed over much like Iori. Even if Shadow were Sakurai's preference (which I actually don't think is the case), he'd still go for the character he felt was best suited, which could still wind up being Shadow anyway, but he wouldn't default to the edgy one just because.
 

Scrimblo Bimblo

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I kinda feel like people are exaggerating how much of an edgelord Sakurai really is. He's still the creator of Kirby, we got Terry over Iori even though I'm sure SNK would be fine with either, and Dark Pit was actually supposed to be a parody of dark-colored edgy rivals.
Meta Knight is also a bit of a parody. He's still a blue marshmallow ball who acts all edgy and is ashamed of his own appearance.
Iori without Kyo wouldn't make much sense I think. Edgy rivals can only bring their full edgy rival energy if they have the OG to bounce off of.
 

Louie G.

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If there WAS another ballot for Smash Bros., who would you all personally vote for?
By default I would say my MWs, but in a situation like this it would be good to try and rally behind something as a community.

Chorus Kids are my most wanted character from Rhythm Heaven, but there's a lot of division among fans as to which character is the best choice. I'm pretty stubborn about not wanting to back Karate Joe, but I could be flexible about any other choice if we all decided to band together for it. Unlike something like Zelda or Sonic where that more divided support will still collectively mean a lot of votes for both respective series, I fear that Rhythm Heaven's divided support will just fizzle all of the characters out and prevent their chance of ranking highly. That's what happened in Swamp's poll, they missed Top 5.

Arle is probably a safer bet if I can count on people in Japan feeling similarly compelled. Her support is modest over here but I hope Puyo would be one of the more popular third party series requested overseas, and all in all I think she would have the potential to do pretty well. She and Chorus Kids occupy an equal space as my most wanted character, so if it came down to one vote I might rally behind the one whose chances I think are better.

Unfortunately it's not a matter of "I'll vote for the one that needs more help" either because I think both of them would need all the help they can get.
 

Borskaboska

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An idea I've been thinking about for a while, what do you think the roster would be like if it was made by the Capcom VS team? We get so caught up on "this character is necessary" or "this character deserves to be in the most", I think it'd be nice to try and take a different perspective for once.
What I mean is, while smash tends to go for the 'perfect' roster (characters that have proven staying power and are representative of their series), Capcom Vs games usually go for whatever makes for a fun and interesting roster for that particular game, which means a lot more strange inclusions and a much more rotating cast than smash ever has.

Some weird decisions capcom vs games have had:
-Megaman, despite being the company mascot, has only been in 2 VS titles. The megaman series is most often represented by spin off characters, Like Zero and Tron Bon. Roll is playable in 2 vs games despite only ever being playable in a bonus mode of a psp remake of the first megaman game. This would basically be like if Mario wasn't in smash and instead the series was represented by Paper Luigi and Fawful.

-Black Widow was considered for MVC3, but was cut due to "too many gun people". Hagar and Zangeif can't be in the same game because their both big grappler guys. Capcom games tend to prioritize aesthetically different character archetypes in their roster, even if they mechanically play differently, so I'm sure the swordie haters are happy with this one.

-Several franchises are represented either solely by the main villain, or the main villain got in ages before their actual protagonist. Shuma Gorath before Dr Strange, Dr Doom without the Fantastic 4, Blackheard before Daredevil. Like if Skull Kid got in before Link, or Dark Matter without Kirby.

-They couldnt pick just one Fantastic 4 character for the roster, so they just used Super Skrull because he could copy all of them. Like if they couldn't pick just one Pokemon, so they added Ditto and he turned into every pokemon. Aditionally, when they had trouble getting the rights to Iron Man, they just used War Machine because he looks exactly like Iron Man but gray.

-Cyberbots, the series about giant fighting robots, is represented by one of the robot pilots and he has a completely original moveset. The closest equevalent i can think of is saying "Olimar is too small, so pikmin will be represented by a playable SS Drake".

-MVC2 just had 3 totally made up characters. One is a cut Darkstalkers character and the others are rumored to be (by me), so like imagine if WaPeach just got into the next smash basically.

-Bone Claw Wolverine... i guess this isnt too differant from Young Link, actually.

-Judging by how Darkstalkers gets treated by capcom... if you are a hot lady you are 10x more likely to get into crossover rosters.
 
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DarthEnderX

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HyperSomari64

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An idea I've been thinking about for a while, what do you think the roster would be like if it was made by the Capcom VS team? We get so caught up on "this character is necessary" or "this character deserves to be in the most", I think it'd be nice to try and take a different perspective for once.
What I mean is, while smash tends to go for the 'perfect' roster (characters that have proven staying power and are representative of their series), Capcom Vs games usually go for whatever makes for a fun and interesting roster for that particular game, which means a lot more strange inclusions and a much more rotating cast than smash ever has.

Some weird decisions capcom vs games have had:
-Megaman, despite being the company mascot, has only been in 2 VS titles. The megaman series is most often represented by spin off characters, Like Zero and Tron Bon. Roll is playable in 2 vs games despite only ever being playable in a bonus mode of a psp remake of the first megaman game. This would basically be like if Mario wasn't in smash and instead the series was represented by Paper Luigi and Fawful.

-Black Widow was considered for MVC3, but was cut due to "too many gun people". Hagar and Zangeif can't be in the same game because their both big grappler guys. Capcom games tend to prioritize aesthetically different character archetypes in their roster, even if they mechanically play differently, so I'm sure the swordie haters are happy with this one.

-Several franchises are represented either solely by the main villain, or the main villain got in ages before their actual protagonist. Shuma Gorath before Dr Strange, Dr Doom without the Fantastic 4, Blackheard before Daredevil. Like if Skull Kid got in before Link, or Dark Matter without Kirby.

-They couldnt pick just one Fantastic 4 character for the roster, so they just used Super Skrull because he could copy all of them. Like if they couldn't pick just one Pokemon, so they added Ditto and he turned into every pokemon. Aditionally, when they had trouble getting the rights to Iron Man, they just used War Machine because he looks exactly like Iron Man but gray.

-Cyberbots, the series about giant fighting robots, is represented by one of the robot pilots and he has a completely original moveset. The closest equevalent i can think of is saying "Olimar is too small, so pikmin will be represented by a playable SS Drake".

-MVC2 just had 3 totally made up characters. One is a cut Darkstalkers character and the others are rumored to be (by me), so like imagine if WaPeach just got into the next smash basically.

-Bone Claw Wolverine... i guess this isnt too differant from Young Link, actually.

-Judging by how Darkstalkers gets treated by capcom... if you are a hot lady you are 10x more likely to get into crossover rosters.
mix this with a SFIII-like roster with 3-4 returning characters and a new cast.
 

GoldenYuiitusin

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Like I said, I'm on a little bit of copium because the three non-playable first party series in Smash with the most Spirits in Ultimate I'm pretty sure are Golden Sun, Rhythm Heaven, and Starfy, but yeah not anticipating anything realistically lol
I know you said it's copium, but it's really not worth looking into.

In Melee, Animal Crossing and Custom Robo had the most Trophies out of non-playable franchises. This did not lead to characters in Brawl.

In Brawl, barring Animal Crossing (which had its own stage), Starfy and Magical Starsign/Vacation had the most Stickers out of non-playable series, and Custom Robo, Magical Starsign/Vacation, and Chosoju Mecha MG had the most Trophies out of non-playable series. The only series that got a character in Smash 4 was Animal Crossing, and bear in mind that series was given everything BUT a character in Brawl.


I could mention For's stuff, but I think the fact the only new 1st Party franchise in base for Ultimate was Splatoon and the only new 1st Party franchise for DLC was ARMS speaks for itself.
 
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TheFirstPoppyBro

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I know you said it's copium, but it's really not worth looking into.

In Melee, Animal Crossing and Custom Robo had the most Trophies out of non-playable franchises. This did not lead to characters in Brawl.

In Brawl, barring Animal Crossing (which had its own stage), Starfy and Magical Starsign/Vacation had the most Stickers out of non-playable series, and Custom Robo, Magical Starsign/Vacation, and Chosoju Mecha MG had the most Trophies out of non-playable series. The only series that got a character in Smash 4 was Animal Crossing, and bear in mind that series was given everything BUT a character in Brawl.


I could mention For's stuff, but I think the the only new 1st Party franchise in base for Ultimate was Splatoon and the only new 1st Party franchise for DLC was ARMS speaks for itself.
Yeah, I always bring it up for Golden Sun since the disparity between Smash 4's absolute zero of anything extra and Ultimate suddenly giving it a ton of stuff feels like some level of acknowledgement, but beyond that it realistically doesn't mean anything lol

If it DID though, I'd be eating good between Rhythm Heaven AND Starfy lol
 

Louie G.

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An idea I've been thinking about for a while, what do you think the roster would be like if it was made by the Capcom VS team?
- I kinda don't think they would feel strapped to "Princess" Zelda. Sheik is actually a very MVC styled pick in a vacuum, to me, and I could see them throwing in someone like Tetra too. With Peach already on the roster (duh) and fruitful options for other mage characters I think it'd be interesting if they went for a subversive depiction of Zelda over the standard one. Depends how big the roster is though.

- This team really loves Roll, so I feel like a "cute" girl character like Lip or Ashley could be under consideration. Panel de Pon strikes me as an older series Capcom may take an interest in, and it'd be a more eccentric choice so I'd lean further in her direction.

- Paying further mind to series that may be beloved among Capcom developers, I think Sin & Punishment is a big one. Saki is a perfect fit for a game like this, his rule of cool - futuristic laser gunsword, 80s/90s anime OVA aesthetic - overlaps heavily with some of Capcom's own favorites.

- MVC is less concerned about the protagonist or avatar and more about which is the most compelling or identifiable character. Min-Min over Spring Man always struck me as a "what Capcom would have done" move. I also feel that the likes of Chrom and Edelgard would have made it over Robin and Byleth respectively. And maybe Villager would have been skirted over in favor of Nook and/or Isabelle.

- In respect to Fire Emblem I think we would have gotten someone like Tiki by now too. Not only does she play into the previous point about "cute" characters depending on which version you're using but I think Capcom would treat a recurring face like her more as a pseudo-mascot. Branching off toward other Nintendo RPGs, I think Xenoblade would look about the same but maybe we'd get Fiora or even Metal Face, assuming....

- Ridley would have actually been "big", I suspect the character size differences would push further extreme.

- Star Fox and F-Zero strike me as Darkstalkers parallels in Smash already, so I think they would continue to be strong character-driven forces. Perhaps we'd even get a second or third F-Zero character like Samurai Goroh. I think those characters are designed perfectly for a fighting game. Same with Kid Icarus, honestly - I think Pit and Palutena would have both made it onto the roster still. Pit actually evokes MVC2's choice of SonSon very strongly.
 
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Guynamednelson

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evidently using the older meaning of parody where it was basically just reference
Smash doesn't give him enough room to actually show what makes him a parody.
which could still wind up being Shadow anyway, but he wouldn't default to the edgy one just because.
Yeah I'm not saying he can't come, so much as that Ow The Edge won't be that much of an advantage. Smash just has too many characters that tell me Sakurai doesn't default to the edgy choice every time.
 

Louie G.

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Yeah, I always bring it up for Golden Sun since the disparity between Smash 4's absolute zero of anything extra and Ultimate suddenly giving it a ton of stuff feels like some level of acknowledgement, but beyond that it realistically doesn't mean anything lol
Well I wouldn't dismiss it as completely meaningless, at the very least I think all the attention Golden Sun and Isaac got (spirits, Mii Costume, a refreshed Assist Trophy) are a clear response to some kind of ballot showing. Up to you how much that will influence things a decade out, but I think some of those results will still be kept close to the chest when deciding the roster next game. But we're looking at pretty much everything but a playable character.

You'd be right in saying it's striking coming from specifically where Golden Sun was at last game, too. The relative lack of anything substantial in Smash 4 is why it stands out so much to see them restore and increase that representation in Brawl. That's something we haven't seen happen to any of these other series - Rhythm Heaven remained pretty consistent, and Starfy's AT has remained a staple. I suppose we've got more spirits than we did trophies, though.

So I think all this puts Isaac in a good spot, although I'm still dubious of Starfy and a Rhythm Heaven character. Golden Sun is the one series out of these three where you can confidently say it received a hefty glow-up, and that makes its role among the pack very unique as it stands. It's that upward momentum that makes it worth keeping an eye on, less than just having the most content in a vacuum.
 

Ivander

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- This team really loves Roll, so I feel like a "cute" girl character like Lip or Ashley could be under consideration. Panel de Pon strikes me as an older series Capcom may take an interest in, and it'd be a more eccentric choice so I'd lean further in her direction.
I mean, Jigglypuff kinda fits this. Sure, it's not a cute girl in the traditional sense since Jigglypuff is a Pokemon and can be both female and male(although there are more females than males), but Jigglypuff still fits alot of the criteria.

Tinkaton would also fit the "cute girl" archetype, even more than Jigglypuff because Tinkaton and it's Pokemon line are only female.
 

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Well I wouldn't dismiss it as completely meaningless, at the very least I think all the attention Golden Sun and Isaac got (spirits, Mii Costume, a refreshed Assist Trophy) are a clear response to some kind of ballot showing. Up to you how much that will influence things a decade out, but I think some of those results will still be kept close to the chest when deciding the roster next game. But we're looking at pretty much everything but a playable character.

You'd be right in saying it's striking coming from specifically where Golden Sun was at last game, too. The relative lack of anything substantial in Smash 4 is why it stands out so much to see them restore and increase that representation in Brawl. That's something we haven't seen happen to any of these other series - Rhythm Heaven remained pretty consistent, and Starfy's AT has remained a staple. I suppose we've got more spirits than we did trophies, though.

So I think all this puts Isaac in a good spot, although I'm still dubious of Starfy and a Rhythm Heaven character. Golden Sun is the one series out of these three where you can confidently say it received a hefty glow-up, and that makes its role among the pack very unique as it stands. It's that upward momentum that makes it worth keeping an eye on, less than just having the most content in a vacuum.
Yeah, I do think Golden Sun specifically had a good showing because in Smash 4 all Golden Sun has is the remix from Brawl and like an overworld track I think (Weyard). It has no trophies even on Smash 3DS which was a bit more focused on handheld games and the Assist Trophy has been removed.

Since we know Ultimate started development around when DLC finished for Smash 4, seeing Golden Sun and Isaac by extension go from that to everything it has in Ultimate in such a relatively short time frame definitely feels like it means something, to me anyway. Especially the Mii Costume, that feels kinda like the consolation ones in Smash 4 during the Ballot period for characters like Chrom and K. Rool, and we know how they turned out.
 
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Golden Icarus

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I asked a few days ago about the time and resources required for different characters; Sakurai made direct statements about the Melee clones being ~17% the work of a traditional fighter and Brawl Wolf being ~70% of a traditional fighter. And we can imagine characters like Dr. Mario and Dark Pit would only ever have a chance of being playable because they likely fall under that ~17% mark. When discussing clones, we keep in mind that certain characters only have a real shot of inclusion because of their ease of development.

But what about the flip side of things - what are some characters that would certainly require ~2x - 3x the resources of a traditional fighter, yet still might be included because they’re just that significant or interesting?

Transforming characters are understandably rare, but the alter ego of the titular character of one of Nintendo’s biggest franchises is an exception. A 3-in-1 of 3 totally unique characters is an insane idea, but if it’s to represent Pokemon’s player character, some incredibly popular starters and a mechanic that’s emblematic of the franchise’s gameplay, suddenly there is enough incentive to actually do it.

Steve was a gargantuan undertaking, but Minecraft is like the most relevant and influential game of the past decade. It’s no surprise that Nintendo execs were really pushing for it and that Sakurai was willing to conceptualize an extremely novel moveset that also involved reprogramming every stage in the game.

Thinking about this - I’ve started to come around on Eevee. If there is a character towards the very top of Nintendo’s lists of must-haves that would also have Sakurai stop and say “well I can’t include him without an evolving mechanic…and I can’t leave out anyone’s favorite…” and now he’s saddled with a beast of a character that will require a ton of resources.

I don’t personally think it’s likely that we’ll see something as crazy as a 9-in-1 character, but…maybe a 4-in-1 with moves that utilize the other 5 as assists? It would be wild, but it’s one of the only characters I can imagine being worth the effort.
 
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LiveStudioAudience

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I asked a few days ago about the time and resources required for different characters; Sakurai made direct statements about the Melee clones being ~17% the work of a traditional fighter and Brawl Wolf being ~70% of a traditional fighter. And we can imagine characters like Dr. Mario and Dark Pit would only ever have a chance of being playable because they likely fall under that ~17% mark. When discussing clones, we keep in mind that certain characters only have a real shot of inclusion because of their ease of development.

But what about the flip side of things - what are some characters that would certainly require ~2x - 3x the resources of a traditional fighter, yet still might be included because they’re just that significant or interesting?
I've seen Chell noted as a great potential fighter for Smash, but getting the physics and general balance of the portal gun would be a heck of an undertaking to pull off.
 

Guynamednelson

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But what about the flip side of things - what are some characters that would certainly require ~2x - 3x the resources of a traditional fighter, yet still might be included because they’re just that significant or interesting?

Transforming characters are understandably rare,
In the event we DO get another transforming character, I think they'll be like Pythra and have some shortcuts taken. Look at how Pyra and Mythra are clones of each other with their most prominent difference being their specials.

Eevee could be an example of that with it being a semiclone of Pikachu and its evolutions being semiclones of each other (but I don't wanna get into another argument on its debut game or whatever), but also on the subject of some notable Pokemon trainers whose signature mons include potential semiclones there's Elesa with her Emolga (being based off Pikachu), and Cynthia with her Garchomp (possibly based off Charizard)
 

Louie G.

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But what about the flip side of things - what are some characters that would certainly require ~2x - 3x the resources of a traditional fighter, yet still might be included because they’re just that significant or interesting?
I've been banking on either Squid Sisters or Off the Hook and those would require two characters' worth of unique animation and minimally a Pyra / Mythra level undertaking of moveset distinction. I think realistically they'd be somewhere between Pythra and Pokemon Trainer in development strain.

I anticipate they would share some attacks with each other, attack in tandem like Ice Climbers for some as well, but at least in the case of Pearl / Marina you'd want to take further advantage of their distinct silhouettes and personalities to emphasize them differently. Callie / Marie may be able to play it closer to one another not unlike Pyra / Mythra if they were like Ice Climbers + could simply swap the lead.

And I do think this could happen - Splatoon being a big enough series to justify the effort, these characters are some of the most popular new Nintendo icons of the last decade, but also due to Sakurai's seeming interest in doing this kind of team mechanic and promptly abandoning every attempt so far (Diddy / Dixie, Chorus Kids, Rex / Pyra). I think he'll crack the code soon enough.
 
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Guynamednelson

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I feel like if F-Zero had more games or had more successful and relevant for several years than it was, we would have at least gotten Samurai Goroh as a secondary F-Zero character on the roster by now.
I guess there is some hope for Goroh in the form of F-Zero 99 being a thing and being based on the game where he's OP. But it's a long shot.
 

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I feel like if F-Zero had more games or had more successful and relevant for several years than it was, we would have at least gotten Samurai Goroh as a secondary F-Zero character on the roster by now.
Well... Yes.

That's almost a given.
 

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Well... Yes.

That's almost a given.
I mean to be fair, a franchise as big as Zelda hasn't had a newcomer in like 16 years since Toon Link in Brawl, so I'd say it'd certainly help F-Zero get a second character, but probably not quite a given per se, though I imagine that's what the "almost" is for lol
 

LiveStudioAudience

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So.. do you think this is Geno's time?
Hard to say. There will be some distance between the Mario RPG remake and whenever Smash 6 releases (though granted it could be in development right now) so whether or not that game and the associated fandom with it is still in Nintendo's thoughts is difficult to determine. The big x factor is whether or not the remake was a one-off project to no longer have the game stuck on SNES hardware or whether there's plans to maybe do a sequel with licensing from Square Enix and possible developed by ArtePiazza again.

Geno would be a natural choice either way, though I will say his absence in the next SSB would actually sting a lot less because Seven Stars has been enshrined so strongly via the Switch release, and he's got a kind of immortality now beyond even what the Super Nintendo game gave him.
 
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TheFirstPoppyBro

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So.. do you think this is Geno's time?
After the remake did pretty well, I'd be surprised if there wasn't at least some consideration and this is definitely his best shot I think, though it depends on if Square is willing to play ball, which to be fair they could be for what's basically a Mario character.

But I also kinda feel like if he doesn't make it this time, he probably won't? I dunno, just a feeling, but like after this game the ship will have sailed on the remake being recent.
 

BuckleyTim

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It is actually hilarious how people still have little faith in Geno's chance after a full-fledged remake of his game was made. Smash fans really picked the most complicated long-shot of a character ever to rally around.
 

cashregister9

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So.. do you think this is Geno's time?
I mean Fortnite's story has been ramping up again after a period where they stopped entirely, but it seems like they've abandoned the Imagined Order and The Seven plotlines, unless the story somehow brings them back, I can't really see them using Geno as the main representative at this point.
 

Noipoi

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It is actually hilarious how people still have little faith in Geno's chance after a full-fledged remake of his game was made. Smash fans really picked the most complicated long-shot of a character ever to rally around.
I’m not sure where and why he got such a big following amongst Smash fans. Like, K Rool was once the main villain of his franchise, Ridley is one of Samus’ most recurring rivals, Banjo & Kazooie are the main characters of their series. Comparatively Geno is was more obscure.

But at this point the following is there, and I just think it’d be nice to see them get the big win :nifty:
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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It is actually hilarious how people still have little faith in Geno's chance after a full-fledged remake of his game was made. Smash fans really picked the most complicated long-shot of a character ever to rally around.
These two sentences make me unsure if you're saying people are putting too much stock in Geno ("most complicated long-shot of a character ever"), or if people should put MORE stock into Geno (people still have little faith after a full remake) lmao

EDIT: Either way, should note that Sakurai went on record in an interview in 2016 and said Geno is a character he'd like to see playable and that he tried to add him back in Brawl, but it never panned out, hence why we got the Mii Costume twice lol
 
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