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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

HyperSomari64

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Book 9 for Fire Emblem Heroes
Please, can I have the fabled Xenoblade collab that I'm not the only one who dreams about it? (same with SNK Neo Geo cards in Capcom's and GungHo's TEPPEN)
Mobile games and crossovers go hand-to-hand since the early days (just look at that one Lilo & Stitch X Bomberman game)
 
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Idon

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Please, can I have the fabled Xenoblade collab that I'm not the only one who dreams about it? (same with SNK Neo Geo cards in Capcom's and GungHo's TEPPEN)
Mobile games and crossovers go hand-to-hand since the early days (just look at that one Lilo & Stitch X Bomberman game)
Yes but FEH famously does zero collabs (at least where stuff goes into the game, dragalia lost (rip) had 2 FEH collabs).

They even had a Phantom Thief seasonal event, the perfect time to bring over Joker Persona 5 ( and kill the game).
 

HyperSomari64

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Yes but FEH famously does zero collabs (at least where stuff goes into the game, dragalia lost (rip) had 2 FEH collabs).

They even had a Phantom Thief seasonal event, the perfect time to bring over Joker Persona 5 ( and kill the game).
I know this is to not break the story flow and ruining plot points with silly collaborations. But FEH doesn't follow the crossing over trend.
Fate/Grand Order is another example where the gacha is only Fate servants + the occasional character from another entry in Type-Moon's Nasuverse. (I want Neco-Arc so badly). And if they want some sort of """Real""" crossover, the first one that come to mind is with other Visual Novels like 05thExpansion, Key and MAGES.
FGO and FEH have more in common with SpongeBob, in which they don't cross paths with others unless it's in the same verse. (Patchy the Pirate in Big Time Rush was an exception, but let's move on)
 
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Diddy Kong

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So.. do you think this is Geno's time?
Now or never basically. Super Mario RPG won't get another remake. And there's nothing else for him besides this. I see the chances as quite likely this time, but not guaranteed by any means.

I actually think Geno would make sense for an early reveal in one of the first trailers. Him or Waluigi.

Also there not being more Jigglypuff type of easy inclusions is a missed opportunity indeed. There are quite a few popular characters who could benefit from this type of approach. Especially since we're expecting more cuts than ever this time around.
 

Diddy Kong

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Many people keep talking about how many Fire Emblem characters are going to get cut, but unfortunately for them, next year is Fire Emblem's prime time. Why? Cause it's 2025 next year and it will be Fire Emblem's 35th Anniversary. And not many people know this, but 2+0+2+5+3+5 = 17. And what is 17? A Prime number.
Hence why next year, along with it's 35th Anniversary, Book 9 for Fire Emblem Heroes and a new game announced in 2025, there will be no cut Fire Emblem characters for next Smash. And 35 Anniversaries+9 FEH Books+1 new game+No cut characters for Fire Emblem meaning 8 Fire Emblem Reps uncut=53, which is a Prime number. It's Fire Emblem's Prime time.

This has been "Your Useless Fact of the Day".
Honestly... I can see this.

Many people want Fire Emblem to have cuts just for the sake of it. Buy many of these characters are low effort inclusions; Lucina, Chrom and Roy.

The only real sensible cut I can think of is Corrin, Roy maybe second. But Roy was specifically chosen over the likes of Wolf to return through DLC in Smash and is a very popular character. He also marked the revival of Fire Emblem at some point, hence also his inclusion in Melee. His promotional role in Melee holds extra weight therefore and, he's popular in Ultimate now too. Roy to me seems likely to stay therefore.

Corrin however, a very controversial character from the beginning of their DLC inclusion in 4, as well as the overall reception towards Fates and especially Corrin's role in these games. Not a very popular character for this reason.

I also think Chrom will stay around. Not too sure if he's gonna remain a Echo however. My idea for Chrom and Lucina is to give them their own movesets and have them be clones of each other. Difference lies with their Up B, Lucina keeps hers, Chrom keeps his, or receive a buffed version (Ike too by extension). Maybe, just maybe give Chrom a few lance based moves and Lucina a bow projectile. Could even be borrowed from Byleth as we free up Byleth's move set from the Heroes relics and give them a move set purely focused on the Sword of the Creator. Axe attacks go to Ike on certain Smash attacks, maybe.

That's how I'd handle Fire Emblem at least. No newcomers, just this approach.
 

RykZyk

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So... what do you think of characters that are primarily known in the West, but not in Japan where Smash Bros is made?
I ask this because whenever I suggest or I say that Goemon would be a good character addition, there's always people who jump to me saying that he's too niche for western audiences, but then those people ask for characters like Rayman, Lara Croft or someone from Mortal Kombat or a Valve character, forgetting they are pretty much in the same situation but in reverse, and arguably worse since Smash is a japanese game after all.
 

Opossum

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I agree that it's absolutely now or never for Geno. Now is the one time that he has something beyond his fan demand going for him, and probably the biggest "something" he could possibly have within reason. If that doesn't move the needle, nothing will.

So... what do you think of characters that are primarily known in the West, but not in Japan where Smash Bros is made?
I ask this because whenever I suggest or I say that Goemon would be a good character addition, there's always people who jump to me saying that he's too niche for western audiences, but then those people ask for characters like Rayman, Lara Croft or someone from Mortal Kombat or a Valve character, forgetting they are pretty much in the same situation but in reverse, and arguably worse since Smash is a japanese game after all.
I think that characters known in the west but unknown in Japan are in a significantly worse position than ones that are known in Japan but relatively unknown in the west. Completely unknown is obviously one thing, but for lopsided notability, we'd be far more likely to get someone like Goemon than, say, Scorpion, imo.
 

Gengar84

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So... what do you think of characters that are primarily known in the West, but not in Japan where Smash Bros is made?
I ask this because whenever I suggest or I say that Goemon would be a good character addition, there's always people who jump to me saying that he's too niche for western audiences, but then those people ask for characters like Rayman, Lara Croft or someone from Mortal Kombat or a Valve character, forgetting they are pretty much in the same situation but in reverse, and arguably worse since Smash is a japanese game after all.
I think they’re less likely as things currently stand. However, I think if Smash wants to truly embrace the “celebration of gaming”, it should continue branching out into characters who are popular in other regions as well. I just think it would be cool to celebrate gaming as a whole rather than overly focusing on one specific segment. There’s still tons of Japanese games and characters I’d love to see represented but I think other regions have a ton of untapped potential for Smash. Hopefully Steve and Banjo are just the start of Smash embracing a more global approach to character selection. That said, Nintendo is still a Japanese company and it makes sense for them and Sakurai to me more familiar with what’s popular over there so I’ll always expect at least a little Japanese focused character selection.
 

RykZyk

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I think they’re less likely as things currently stand. However, I think if Smash wants to truly embrace the “celebration of gaming”, it should continue branching out into characters who are popular in other regions as well. I just think it would be cool to celebrate gaming as a whole rather than overly focusing on one specific segment. There’s still tons of Japanese games and characters I’d love to see represented but I think other regions have a ton of untapped potential for Smash. Hopefully Steve and Banjo are just the start of Smash embracing a more global approach to character selection. That said, Nintendo is still a Japanese company and it makes sense for them and Sakurai to me more familiar with what’s popular over there so I’ll always expect at least a little Japanese focused character selection.
Agree tbh. I always thought that characters like Doom Slayer or Rayman are good choices in case they want to appeal to western audiences.
 

Gengar84

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Agree tbh. I always thought that characters like Doom Slayer or Rayman are good choices in case they want to appeal to western audiences.
Yeah, Doom Slayer especially. I like the idea of bringing in characters who are basically faces of their genre that are new to Smash. DOOM played a huge part in popularizing First Person Shooter games. My most wanted western characters are Rash/Pimple/Zitz (Battletoads), Fulgore (Killer Instinct), Jinx (League of Legends), Illidan Stormrage (WarCraft), Sarah Kerrigan (StarCraft), Raziel (Soul Reaver), Death (Darksiders), and Gaige (Borderlands). Several of these bring in new unrepresented genres to Smash and could act as the face of those genres much like Doom Slayer does for FPS games. Here’s a quick breakdown of each new genre they could bring in:

Battletoads - Beat ‘em Up
Jinx - MOBA
Illidan - MMORPG, RTS, and digital card game
Kerrigan - RTS
Gaige - FPS/Looter Shooter

Fulgore and Sub-Zero give us two more fighting game characters but don’t really bring in a new genre. Raziel and Death have some overlap with Zelda and Bayonetta so they don’t really either. I just happen to really like all those characters.
 
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Gengar84

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Ya know, given how people seem to much prefer Death over War, and I really enjoyed War, I should probably play Darksiders 2.
I think they’re all really cool personally. I like Death because he’s more supernatural looking with his skull like features and gray skin. War looks like a cool human knight and gives me a WarCraft vibe. I think I’m going to buy Darksiders Genesis soon because that looks like a fun co-op game. I played Darksiders 2 years ago but got stuck on a puzzle I couldn’t figure out. I’d love to play it again and the rest of the series.
 

RileyXY1

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Yeah, Doom Slayer especially. I like the idea of bringing in characters who are basically faces of their genre that are new to Smash. DOOM played a huge part in popularizing First Person Shooter games. My most wanted western characters are Rash/Pimple/Zitz (Battletoads), Fulgore (Killer Instinct), Jinx (League of Legends), Illidan Stormrage (WarCraft), Sarah Kerrigan (StarCraft), Raziel (Soul Reaver), Death (Darksiders), and Gaige (Borderlands). Several of these bring in new unrepresented genres to Smash and could act as the face of those genres much like Doom Slayer does for FPS games. Here’s a quick breakdown of each new genre they could bring in:

Battletoads - Beat ‘em Up
Jinx - MOBA
Illidan - MMORPG, RTS, and digital card game
Kerrigan - RTS
Gaige - FPS/Looter Shooter

Fulgore and Sub-Zero give us two more fighting game characters but don’t really bring in a new genre. Raziel and Death have some overlap with Zelda and Bayonetta so they don’t really either. I just happen to really like all those characters.
When Master Chief exists and is owned by the same company I highly doubt that Doom Slayer is getting in. And Doom didn't popularize FPS games at all. Actually it was Wolfenstein 3D that did that.
 

DarthEnderX

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Ya know, given how people seem to much prefer Death over War, and I really enjoyed War, I should probably play Darksiders 2.
Honestly, it's not as good.

Where as DS1 is a Zelda-like, DS2 is more of an open-world game with Diablo-style loot. Neither of those things improves the experience.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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As far as Wolfenstein vs Doom, it's a case where the former was the pioneer, but it was the latter that shot the FPS genre into the stratosphere. Doom being estimated as being installed on more computers than Windows 95 tells you just how big it was, so it being that significant to the first-person shooter genre (to the point where games like Star Wars Dark Forces were called Doom Clones before the FPS name was coined)? That does make it feel like it fits in the quasi-celebration of gaming Smash is.

Whether that's significant to Nintendo or would be greatly appreciated by the Japanese audience? Who knows.
 

Louie G.

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And Doom didn't popularize FPS games at all. Actually it was Wolfenstein 3D that did that.
I think Master Chief is more likely too, but this is just wrong. Wolfenstein came first but DOOM was the cultural phenomenon. Not that it matters anyway, both are by id Software and Wolfenstein’s subject matter gives it a virtual 0% chance of having anything in Smash. DOOM is simply the more sensible of the two and represents the same creative vision and innovation.
 

cashregister9

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And Doom didn't popularize FPS games at all. Actually it was Wolfenstein 3D that did that.
While Wolfenstein 3D was popular, it was not nearly as much of a leap forward or as influential as Doom was. Doom absolutely deserves it's notoriety.

Wolfenstein 3D was more of a refinement of the technologies that already existed at the time, in not only other id games but also other FPS games from that time (Obligatory Ultima Underworld and Catacomb 3d mention) Wolfenstein just combined the best of all of them into a pretty good game.

Doom blew everything else out of the water and was the cutting edge of technology until Duke Nukem came out, even then, Duke Nukem only had a fraction of the popularity that Doom did. Doom is also just more fun and more memorable than Wolfenstein.

Wolfenstein is still influential, but not as influential as Doom
 
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Thegameandwatch

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Do you guys think that Undertale’s representation in Smash will be expanded in Smash 6 other than just the Mii Costume and the music track?
 
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RileyXY1

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While Wolfenstein 3D was popular, it was not nearly as much of a leap forward or as influential as Doom was. Doom absolutely deserves it's notoriety.

Wolfenstein 3D was more of a refinement of the technologies that already existed at the time, in not only other id games but also other FPS games from that time (Obligatory Ultima Underworld and Catacomb 3d mention) Wolfenstein just combined the best of all of them into a pretty good game.

Doom blew everything else out of the water and was the cutting edge of technology until Duke Nukem came out, even then, Duke Nukem only had a fraction of the popularity that Doom did. Doom is also just more fun and more memorable than Wolfenstein.
Although you forgot about Quake, and that was an even bigger leap forward than Doom was. It also massively popularized online multiplayer as well to a greater extent than Doom.
 

cashregister9

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Although you forgot about Quake, and that was an even bigger leap forward than Doom was. It also massively popularized online multiplayer as well to a greater extent than Doom.
Quake is one of the most influential 3D games of all time, with most 3D games having at least a bit of Quakes DNA inside it somehow

but we wouldn't have Quake without Doom and Doom 2
 

cashregister9

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Quake is one of the most influential 3D games of all time, with most 3D games having at least a bit of Quakes DNA inside it somehow

but we wouldn't have Quake without Doom and Doom 2
I don't want to minimize Wolfenstein's influence though, What it did for the concept of Shareware games and FPS games as a whole is still major, I mentioned Catacomb 3d and Ultima Underworld, while those were similar, they also were not as simple or as fun as Wolfenstein and overall the presentation for Wolfenstein was the best at the time and did propel the FPS genre to eventually lead id to create Doom.

It's the UItima vs Dragon Quest conundrum all over again.
 
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Louie G.

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Do you guys think that Undertale’s representation in Smash will be expanded in Smash 6 other than just the Mii Costume and the music track?
IMO it almost certainly will, but to what extent is a more loaded question.

I choose to be more optimistic and recognize the real promise that an Undertale character holds right now. Indie games being something Nintendo has openly celebrated further and further through the years, Undertale's status as one of the western IP with truly consistent popularity across both the east and west, the absolute wave of excitement that Sans' Mii Costume uniquely evoked. I think it is absolutely on the radar.

But if they don't want to go that far, a Sans Assist Trophy isn't too hard to imagine. Nor are a few more tracks, spirits / trophies, whatever. I'd even go as far to say that a stage could be in order, another excuse to add more music at that, but honestly then I would just question why they didn't go all the way with a character. The bottom line though, given the warm reception from Ultimate and the continued worldwide popularity of Undertale I think it's a safe bet to see it get something new next game whatever it may be.
 
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The Prankster 16

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So.. do you think this is Geno's time?
I think he’s next in line after Ridley, K. Rool, Sora, and Waluigi for “Highly requested characters.” The recency of the remake and Squenix wanting to buddy up more with Nintendo is a great indication of his chances. He might be saved for DLC though, as a big selling point for hardcore Smash fans. But he might also be base game since he won’t sell as well as a Crash or a Dante.
 

Opossum

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Do you guys think that Undertale’s representation in Smash will be expanded in Smash 6 other than just the Mii Costume and the music track?
I'll go for broke and say that I think Sans is the single most likely third party character for the next Smash's base game.
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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Question is though, would an Undertale character be base game or dlc? What’s more likely in your opinion?
Honestly I think base game is more likely, just because I imagine Toby Fox would be easier to work with than a big company like Square Enix or Microsoft lol

It's mostly a vibes thing, admittedly, like Smash's first indie newcomer being from Undertale just kinda FEELS like it'd be a base game thing, you know?

Though that does make me wonder about the whole "2 unique third party newcomers per base game" thing a bit...
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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Not like Smash speculators are currently acknowledging that.
Yeah, and it's not like hard set or anything (since Ultimate had 1 unique one with Simon and 3 if you also include Echoes even though they're not unique lol), I'm just like "If we get Sans, that'd be one of the two unique third parties" which I'd be fine with, it's just like...

Since a third party is usually in the first trailer/initial reveal like Snake in Brawl and Mega Man in Smash 4, it makes me imagine a world where Sans is like the second reveal for a new Smash Bros. and I'm trying to imagine how I'd react to that lmao
 
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Gengar84

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I'll go for broke and say that I think Sans is the single most likely third party character for the next Smash's base game.
My guess for that spot is Shadow. I do think Sans has a decent shot too but the fact that Smash has yet to have a playable indie character keeps me from saying he’s the most likely.
 

Scrimblo Bimblo

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I'm not sure about Sans becoming a full character next time. I just feel like he would have been a DLC in Ultimate already if that was ever the intention. Undertale was already a massive phenomenon and it's not like they were slow to react to the latest trends judging from stuff like Joker.

I remain doubtful, love Undertale though so I'm open to being wrong.
 
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NintenRob

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I had a dream that Heracross :214: was a playable character, except he was always a playable character, since Brawl. Except the reason he was relevant is I was bringing him up as a potential cut. "I know he's popular but he's not the most stand outish Pokémon there is."

When I woke up, I realised the reason we don't talk about Heracross more is because he was never playable to begin with (though he'd be really cool)
 

HyperSomari64

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I had a dream that Heracross :214: was a playable character, except he was always a playable character, since Brawl. Except the reason he was relevant is I was bringing him up as a potential cut. "I know he's popular but he's not the most stand outish Pokémon there is."

When I woke up, I realised the reason we don't talk about Heracross more is because he was never playable to begin with (though he'd be really cool)
You have played too much Smash Crusade. :4pacman:
 
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Noipoi

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I'm not sure about Sans becoming a full character next time. I just feel like he would have been a DLC in Ultimate already if that was ever the intention. Undertale was already a massive phenomenon and it's not like they were slow to react to the latest trends judging from stuff like Joker.

I remain doubtful, love Undertale though so I'm open to being wrong.
I dunno, the way I see it Ultimate was the time for indie games to get a more prominent role, with all the costumes and the music and the Shovel Knight AT. Now the next step would be to get a whole fighter.

Sometimes you gotta start small and build up to things instead of just jumping in head first.
 
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