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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Hadokeyblade

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Monolith has a 25th anniversary site up


Not much new info but there are some wallpapers

If you want to stretch it could also be a decent indicator of what characters could be considered for smash? or some **** like that IDK
They referenced Day of crisis, Baten Kaitos and even Project X Zone but not the Super robot wars games they made.
 

Opossum

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I am going to try to sell you on Oatchi from Pikmin 4 as a Smash bros. character, here is a basic moveset mock up. Artwork is borrowed from Kino Takahashi's official Pikmin 4 comic strips.


General Stats and Premise
View attachment 394798

Down Special: Lumiknoll Dig
View attachment 394800

Neutral Special: Glowmob
View attachment 394801

Side Special: Mega Rush
View attachment 394802

Up Special: Space Dog Lift-off
View attachment 394803

Misc. Mechanics
View attachment 394804

Final Smash: The Glowbomb
View attachment 394805
This is a really good moveset concept. Consider me sold lol
 

Will

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I am going to try to sell you on Oatchi from Pikmin 4 as a Smash bros. character, here is a basic moveset mock up. Artwork is borrowed from Kino Takahashi's official Pikmin 4 comic strips.


General Stats and Premise
View attachment 394798

Down Special: Lumiknoll Dig
View attachment 394800

Neutral Special: Glowmob
View attachment 394801

Side Special: Mega Rush
View attachment 394802

Up Special: Space Dog Lift-off
View attachment 394803

Misc. Mechanics
View attachment 394804

Final Smash: The Glowbomb
View attachment 394805
If he doesn’t have a glow pikmin, can his bark still be a hitbox like Luigi’s taunt please and thank you
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I am going to try to sell you on Oatchi from Pikmin 4 as a Smash bros. character, here is a basic moveset mock up. Artwork is borrowed from Kino Takahashi's official Pikmin 4 comic strips.
This is literally just a fully developed version of what I was thinking for Oatchi complete with adorable artwork. I love this.
 

Louie G.

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I am going to try to sell you on Oatchi from Pikmin 4 as a Smash bros. character, here is a basic moveset mock up. Artwork is borrowed from Kino Takahashi's official Pikmin 4 comic strips.
This is genuinely one of the most inventive fan concepts I’ve ever seen and directly addresses the key hangup I had with the character - the inevitable overlap with Olimar, and how to make Oatchi or another Captain feel unique without well… making it feel forced, I guess.

The commitment to exclusively Glow Pikmin is wonderful. Now Oatchi has this whole tower defense thing going on and manages to be conceptually distinct in nearly every way. Honestly, I even like how well this works thematically and lets Oatchi be a “guard dog”! I sincerely hope this is the angle they would take.

I do have a question though. How does the Lumiknoll work on moving / scrolling stages? Does it simply spawn back in like Steve’s crafting table? Does Oatchi need to be continually digging up new ones? I’m sure there’s a neat tidy workaround but that’s my one reservation.
 

Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
6,422
I am going to try to sell you on Oatchi from Pikmin 4 as a Smash bros. character, here is a basic moveset mock up. Artwork is borrowed from Kino Takahashi's official Pikmin 4 comic strips.


General Stats and Premise
View attachment 394798

Down Special: Lumiknoll Dig
View attachment 394800

Neutral Special: Glowmob
View attachment 394801

Side Special: Mega Rush
View attachment 394802

Up Special: Space Dog Lift-off
View attachment 394803

Misc. Mechanics
View attachment 394804

Final Smash: The Glowbomb
View attachment 394805
I’ve never played a Pikmin game so I can’t speak to its accuracy but this moveset does look fun. I love the little pictures to help illustrate the attacks. Great work!
 

MeteoRain

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I could be wrong but I feel like Crash’s chances are a bit overestimated. If we’re just going by historical impact, I feel like other Activision/Blizzard series were bigger like StarCraft, WarCraft, and Diablo. Microsoft also has Halo and DOOM for huge iconic series. There is a strong argument that Crash’s rival mascot status on the PS1 could be enough though. I think a second RARE character has a strong case for a similar reason due to their connection to Nintendo. Crash also has fan support, which helps. Crash certainly still has a chance, I just don’t see him as the default most likely Microsoft rep.
Normally I'd understand this logic, as I've said it in the past towards Banjo Kazooie with Halo and Minecraft

But fast forward to now after Banjo getting deemed first priority Microsoft character for Smash and Steve following instead of Halo, I'm pretty sure Doomguy is the only Microsoft character with a candle and a prayer against Crash
 

Gengar84

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Normally I'd understand this logic, as I've said it in the past towards Banjo Kazooie with Halo and Minecraft

But fast forward to now after Banjo getting deemed first priority Microsoft character for Smash and Steve following instead of Halo, I'm pretty sure Doomguy is the only Microsoft character with a candle and a prayer against Crash
Yeah, some of that is probably hopeful thinking on my end. I like Crash well enough but I’ve never played any of his games for more than 5 minutes. I have a much stronger personal connection to many other Microsoft characters so I’m probably projecting my personal biases a bit in all fairness. I still think Crash isn’t as big a series as it’s made out to be but fan demand is important and could really help him like it did for Banjo. My personal most wanted Microsoft owned characters are the Battletoads, Fulgore, Illidan, Kerrigan, and Joanna Dark. I’ll admit that Crash probably has the edge over all of them thanks to more fan support but I don’t think it’s set in stone.
 

Borskaboska

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i had the idea yesterday that Sootopolis from RSE would make for a really cool stage. Groudon and Kyogre would be fighting in the background and the stage would cycle between heavy rain and bright sunlight effects.
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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Normally I'd understand this logic, as I've said it in the past towards Banjo Kazooie with Halo and Minecraft

But fast forward to now after Banjo getting deemed first priority Microsoft character for Smash and Steve following instead of Halo, I'm pretty sure Doomguy is the only Microsoft character with a candle and a prayer against Crash
Yeah, I feel like Crash miiiight have a slight edge because it feels like Microsoft understands they're adding characters to a Japanese game, so they need to use their characters that are popular in the country. Banjo was number 2 on the Ballot, Minecraft is huge including in Japan, and I dunno how other Microsoft franchises stack up over there, but Crash has a pretty decent presence and was pretty big at least during the original trilogy's run (Fake Crash was added to the games because of a hilarious bootleg Japanese plushie, and the Crash Dance was created in a Japanese commercial for the first game).
 
Last edited:

KingofPhantoms

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I am going to try to sell you on Oatchi from Pikmin 4 as a Smash bros. character, here is a basic moveset mock up. Artwork is borrowed from Kino Takahashi's official Pikmin 4 comic strips.


General Stats and Premise
View attachment 394798

Down Special: Lumiknoll Dig
View attachment 394800

Neutral Special: Glowmob
View attachment 394801

Side Special: Mega Rush
View attachment 394802

Up Special: Space Dog Lift-off
View attachment 394803

Misc. Mechanics
View attachment 394804

Final Smash: The Glowbomb
View attachment 394805
I'm actually shocked at how well this translates as an actual Smash moveset. This actually feels like something Sakurai and the devs would actually make.

Insanely well done!
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I do have a question though. How does the Lumiknoll work on moving / scrolling stages? Does it simply spawn back in like Steve’s crafting table? Does Oatchi need to be continually digging up new ones? I’m sure there’s a neat tidy workaround but that’s my one reservation.
My first thought would be to have the blast zones cull any Lumiknolls that cross it, playing an animation, and giving Oatchi a single Glow Pikmin as if he had destroyed it. The mechanic seems to be designed for Oatchi to be able to make a bunch of Lumiknolls throughout the match, even if it's better for him if he keeps them up, so stages that can take them away from him should be fine. The extra animation and Glow Pikmin spawn is mainly there to make sure players know when their Lumiknoll is gone and they can make a new one.
 

King Sonnn DeDeDoo

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This is genuinely one of the most inventive fan concepts I’ve ever seen and directly addresses the key hangup I had with the character - the inevitable overlap with Olimar, and how to make Oatchi or another Captain feel unique without well… making it feel forced, I guess.

The commitment to exclusively Glow Pikmin is wonderful. Now Oatchi has this whole tower defense thing going on and manages to be conceptually distinct in nearly every way. Honestly, I even like how well this works thematically and lets Oatchi be a “guard dog”! I sincerely hope this is the angle they would take.

I do have a question though. How does the Lumiknoll work on moving / scrolling stages? Does it simply spawn back in like Steve’s crafting table? Does Oatchi need to be continually digging up new ones? I’m sure there’s a neat tidy workaround but that’s my one reservation.
I'd say if the Lumiknoll ever gets to the blast zones it despawns, since the Lumiknoll can be attacked (and by extension also absorb attacks sort of like Villager's tree.) Oatchi would need to continually dig up new ones, which does require a rather short digging animation that could potentially leave you vulnerable but is fast enough that if you have some space it can be easily executed.

SMAASH puppy has it right, if the Luminkoll shifts into a blast zone, it gets treated like it was destroyed by Oatchi, that way Oatchi is not completely out of luck on those types of stages.
 

fogbadge

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Normally I'd understand this logic, as I've said it in the past towards Banjo Kazooie with Halo and Minecraft

But fast forward to now after Banjo getting deemed first priority Microsoft character for Smash and Steve following instead of Halo, I'm pretty sure Doomguy is the only Microsoft character with a candle and a prayer against Crash
do we know B&K were given priority? always sounded like the negotiations for both must have over lapped
 

Gengar84

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Since we’re on the topic of Microsoft reps and King Sonnn DeDeDoo shared his (awesome) idea for a resource management based summoning style character in Oatchi, I thought it could be fun to share my Sarah Kerrigan (StarCraft) concept again. Her Zergs function differently than the Pikmin but the general idea is similar. I’m pretty happy with how she came out and I think it would make for a fun and unique Smash moveset.

DeDeDoo’s Lumiknoll idea actually works really well for the Zerg too since that game has the player construct buildings to summon units from that can be attacked. Really cool idea I hadn’t considered at the time when making Kerrigan. My idea was a bit closer to Hero’s MP system but either could work well.

Special Traits / Other:
Kerrigan would be the first true summoner character in Smash. All of her special attacks other than Psionic Shift summon various Zerg units to aid her in battle. In order to balance this, I decided to incorporate an element of resource management similar to her home series.

Vespian Gas - As the battle goes on, Kerrigan builds up resources that she can spend to use all of her special attacks minus Psionic Shift (which doesn’t cost anything since it is her recovery move). Being a simple attack, Zergling Rush attack uses the least amount of gas while the Hydralisk/Defiler/Mutalisk uses the most.

Weak Attacks:
A Combo – Chain Reaction
Kerrigan attacks with a flow of electricity. Like Megaman’s A combo, this is a projectile attack and deals no knockback. In multiplayer, the electricity can flow to other nearby enemies if they are close enough.

Forward Tilt – Kinetic Blast
A small short range explosion from her hand

Up Tilt – Razor Swarm
Kerrigan sends out several mini shockwaves diagonally upwards

Down Tilt
A low claw swipe

Running A
A running double claw swipe

Smash Attacks:
Forward Smash – Leaping Strike
Kerrigan lunges forward and stabs the opponent with her wings

Up Smash
Kerrigan thrusts her wings upward and stabs above her

Down Smash – Impaling Blades
Kerrigan slams the ground causing spikes to rise from the ground on both sides

Specials:
Neutral B – Hydralisk /Defiler / Mutalisk
Similar to Dedede’s original side B that summoned Waddle Dees, Kerrigan summons one of a variety of Zerg units that wander along the battlefield and attack opponents. The hydralisk is the most basic of these. They travel along the ground and attack any opponent nearby. The defiler doesn’t actively attack but instead inflicts various status effects on anyone that gets too close with a cloud of poisonous gas. Finally, the mutalisk flies through the air and attacks any airborne opponents in its range.

Forward B (Grounded) – Zergling Rush
Kerrigan summons a pair of Zerglings to rise from the ground and charge forward for a bit before diving back into the ground.

Forward B (Aerial) – Scourge
If performed in the air, Kerrigan hatches a pair of Scourge who fly forward and explode into any opponent they touch.

Up B – Psionic Shift
Kerrigan surrounds herself in energy then dashes in the chosen direction, damaging anyone she touches

Down B - Lurker
Similar to Snake’s mine attack, Kerrigan summons a Lurker to burrow in the ground right next to her. Anyone who walks over this location is attacked with a rising spike attack for a short while. Like the Hydralisk, only one Lurker can be summoned at a time.

Grabs:
Grab
Kerrigan impales the opponent with her wings

Pummel
Kerrigan grabs the opponent’s face and shocks it with energy

Forward Throw
Kerrigan kicks her opponent forward

Back Throw
A simple toss backward

Up Throw
Kerrigan throws her opponent upwards followed by a quick lightning attack

Down Throw
Kerrigan slams her opponent into the ground

Aerial Attacks:
Neutral A
Kerrigan surrounds herself with electric energy and attacks around her, much like Mewtwo

Forward A
A forward claw swipe

Back A
A backward thrust kick

Up A
A somersault kick

Down A – Quantum Ray
Shoots a beam of energy diagonally downward

Final Smash: Apocalypse
Kerrigan surrounds herself in a radius of energy. Any opponent that comes within range is struck by an explosion which triggers a cinematic cutscene. This scene mimics the final few seconds of the Betrayal on Kerrigan scene. After landing the initial strike, the opponent is transported to a ruined planet where he or she is surrounded by zergs on all sides. As they reach the target, the screen turns to black. It then returns to the normal battle screen and the opponent takes massive damage and knockback.
 
Last edited:

MeteoRain

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Yeah, I feel like Crash miiiight have a slight edge because it feels like Microsoft understands they're adding characters to a Japanese game, so they need to use their characters that are popular in the country. Banjo was number 2 on the Ballot, Minecraft is huge including in Japan, and I dunno how other Microsoft franchises stack up over there, but Crash has a pretty decent presence and was pretty big at least during the original trilogy's run (Fake Crash was added to the games because of a hilarious bootleg Japanese plushie, and the Crash Dance was created in a Japanese commercial for the first game).
Yeah, Microsoft seems to work differently compared to other third parties. I'm not sure it's because of popularity in Japan, or just popularity in Smash circles

If it's the latter, Doomguy has a pretty good shot being an earlier significant request in Ultimate's lifecycle with Hayabusa
 

MeteoRain

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do we know B&K were given priority? always sounded like the negotiations for both must have over lapped
Do we know anything really?

The fact Banjo was on the negotiation table at all speaks for how strong of a case Crash has for Smash
 

King Sonnn DeDeDoo

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Since we’re on the topic of Microsoft reps and King Sonnn DeDeDoo shared his (awesome) idea for a resource management based summoning style character in Oatchi, I thought it could be fun to share my Sarah Kerrigan (StarCraft) concept again. Her Zergs function differently than the Pikmin but the general idea is similar. I’m pretty happy with how she came out and I think it would make for a fun and unique Smash moveset.

DeDeDoo’s Lumiknoll idea actually works really well for the Zerg too since that game has the player construct buildings to summon units from that can be attacked. Really cool idea I hadn’t considered at the time when making Kerrigan. My idea was a bit closer to Hero’s MP system but either could work well.

Special Traits / Other:
Kerrigan would be the first true summoner character in Smash. All of her special attacks other than Psionic Shift summon various Zerg units to aid her in battle. In order to balance this, I decided to incorporate an element of resource management similar to her home series.

Vespian Gas - As the battle goes on, Kerrigan builds up resources that she can spend to use all of her special attacks minus Psionic Shift (which doesn’t cost anything since it is her recovery move). Being a simple attack, Zergling Rush attack uses the least amount of gas while the Hydralisk/Defiler/Mutalisk uses the most.

Weak Attacks:
A Combo – Chain Reaction
Kerrigan attacks with a flow of electricity. Like Megaman’s A combo, this is a projectile attack and deals no knockback. In multiplayer, the electricity can flow to other nearby enemies if they are close enough.

Forward Tilt – Kinetic Blast
A small short range explosion from her hand

Up Tilt – Razor Swarm
Kerrigan sends out several mini shockwaves diagonally upwards

Down Tilt
A low claw swipe

Running A
A running double claw swipe

Smash Attacks:
Forward Smash – Leaping Strike
Kerrigan lunges forward and stabs the opponent with her wings

Up Smash
Kerrigan thrusts her wings upward and stabs above her

Down Smash – Impaling Blades
Kerrigan slams the ground causing spikes to rise from the ground on both sides

Specials:
Neutral B – Hydralisk /Defiler / Mutalisk
Similar to Dedede’s original side B that summoned Waddle Dees, Kerrigan summons one of a variety of Zerg units that wander along the battlefield and attack opponents. The hydralisk is the most basic of these. They travel along the ground and attack any opponent nearby. The defiler doesn’t actively attack but instead inflicts various status effects on anyone that gets too close with a cloud of poisonous gas. Finally, the mutalisk flies through the air and attacks any airborne opponents in its range.

Forward B (Grounded) – Zergling Rush
Kerrigan summons a pair of Zerglings to rise from the ground and charge forward for a bit before diving back into the ground.

Forward B (Aerial) – Scourge
If performed in the air, Kerrigan hatches a pair of Scourge who fly forward and explode into any opponent they touch.

Up B – Psionic Shift
Kerrigan surrounds herself in energy then dashes in the chosen direction, damaging anyone she touches

Down B - Lurker
Similar to Snake’s mine attack, Kerrigan summons a Lurker to burrow in the ground right next to her. Anyone who walks over this location is attacked with a rising spike attack for a short while. Like the Hydralisk, only one Lurker can be summoned at a time.

Grabs:
Grab
Kerrigan impales the opponent with her wings

Pummel
Kerrigan grabs the opponent’s face and shocks it with energy

Forward Throw
Kerrigan kicks her opponent forward

Back Throw
A simple toss backward

Up Throw
Kerrigan throws her opponent upwards followed by a quick lightning attack

Down Throw
Kerrigan slams her opponent into the ground

Aerial Attacks:
Neutral A
Kerrigan surrounds herself with electric energy and attacks around her, much like Mewtwo

Forward A
A forward claw swipe

Back A
A backward thrust kick

Up A
A somersault kick

Down A – Quantum Ray
Shoots a beam of energy diagonally downward

Final Smash: Apocalypse
Kerrigan surrounds herself in a radius of energy. Any opponent that comes within range is struck by an explosion which triggers a cinematic cutscene. This scene mimics the final few seconds of the Betrayal on Kerrigan scene. After landing the initial strike, the opponent is transported to a ruined planet where he or she is surrounded by zergs on all sides. As they reach the target, the screen turns to black. It then returns to the normal battle screen and the opponent takes massive damage and knockback.
LOL I remember seeing the Lumiknolls in Pikmin 4 and thinking "hmmm those sort of look concerningly like a Zerg Hatchery in shape"
 

Gengar84

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Joined
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Messages
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Do we know anything really?

The fact Banjo was on the negotiation table at all speaks for how strong of a case Crash has for Smash
I’m not sure the two are entirely comparable other than fan demand. I feel like part of why Banjo joined is due to RARE’s close association with Nintendo from back then. That made Banjo feel like an honorary Nintendo character (at least to me). Like you said though, we don’t really know anything and I could be way off. That’s just how I personally saw things.
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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Do we know anything really?

The fact Banjo was on the negotiation table at all speaks for how strong of a case Crash has for Smash
I mean we know Steve was in talks for 5 years, so talks probably started around 2013/2014 (since he came out in 2020 and you can't just start making a character until you get the okay, and I figure he took a while because of all the reprogramming and stuff for the blocks).

If anything Steve was probably the priority and could've potentially been in Smash 4 if negotiations didn't take so long, but then the Ballot happened and Banjo stormed it to reach second, only losing out to Sora, so he ended up getting in first since he was incredibly easy to license.

Crash doesn't quite have that going for him like Banjo did, so while I do think Crash has a pretty decent shot, there's really no telling how he stacks up against other characters.
 

fogbadge

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Do we know anything really?

The fact Banjo was on the negotiation table at all speaks for how strong of a case Crash has for Smash
well we know steve took 5 years to get into smash and B&K was an easy deal to make

I don’t see how this affects crash at all
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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I am going to try to sell you on Oatchi from Pikmin 4 as a Smash bros. character
You could've stopped right there, pal.

He's a dog so I want him in Smash, end of story, because dogs are the best. :b:

Incredible amount of effort conceptualizing everything though.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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The fact Banjo was on the negotiation table at all speaks for how strong of a case Crash has for Smash
It... really doesn't.

Crash's merits and Sakurai/Nintendo's desire to add him should stand on their own, not just because another 3D platforming mascot was thought about.

What's next, Roblox guy is in the cards because of Jack Black Minecraft Steve?
 

GoldenYuiitusin

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It... really doesn't.

Crash's merits and Sakurai/Nintendo's desire to add him should stand on their own, not just because another 3D platforming mascot was thought about.

What's next, Roblox guy is in the cards because of Jack Black Minecraft Steve?
Well you see, Steve got in because Bowser was in. So we should expect our first non-gaming guest to be Po, obviously.
 

MeteoRain

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I’m not sure the two are entirely comparable other than fan demand. I feel like part of why Banjo joined is due to RARE’s close association with Nintendo from back then. That made Banjo feel like an honorary Nintendo character (at least to me). Like you said though, we don’t really know anything and I could be way off. That’s just how I personally saw things.
Is being the honorary Nintendo character the reason he got into Smash, because Nintendo reminisces of RARE? Or is that why he saw so much demand through nostalgia that Microsoft or Nintendo themselves couldn't ignore it?

They have the same 90s nostalgia factor, and now they're owned by the same company with the same degree of demand. That's the way I personally see it

No biggie tho, I've been wrong before. We just we just got to wait an see
 

MeteoRain

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It... really doesn't.

Crash's merits and Sakurai/Nintendo's desire to add him should stand on their own, not just because another 3D platforming mascot was thought about.

What's next, Roblox guy is in the cards because of Jack Black Minecraft Steve?
Nah, we're going to see either Rayman or Spyro fans go stir crazy

I hope it's Klonoa
 
Last edited:

Scrimblo Bimblo

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 30, 2023
Messages
638
I am going to try to sell you on Oatchi from Pikmin 4 as a Smash bros. character, here is a basic moveset mock up. Artwork is borrowed from Kino Takahashi's official Pikmin 4 comic strips.


General Stats and Premise
View attachment 394798

Down Special: Lumiknoll Dig
View attachment 394800

Neutral Special: Glowmob
View attachment 394801

Side Special: Mega Rush
View attachment 394802

Up Special: Space Dog Lift-off
View attachment 394803

Misc. Mechanics
View attachment 394804

Final Smash: The Glowbomb
View attachment 394805
Fantastic job, this really sells the concept of how a Pikmin character that's not just a slight variation on Olimar could work.
Also the drawings are super cute.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Is being the honorary Nintendo character the reason he got into Smash, because Nintendo reminisces of RARE?
No. The reason he got in Smash was explicitly stated in one of Sakurai's Famitsu columns to be because he was second place in the Ballot, right behind Sora. Fan demand got him in, not Nintendo getting a sudden nostalgia vibe for a company they should've but never bought.

(assuming this only considered realistic options so maybe people like Goku or Shrek did better but we don't know that)

Or is that why he saw so much demand through nostalgia that Microsoft or Nintendo themselves couldn't ignore it?
That's probably why Banjo got so many votes though
 
Last edited:

Laniv

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
2,228
I am going to try to sell you on Oatchi from Pikmin 4 as a Smash bros. character, here is a basic moveset mock up. Artwork is borrowed from Kino Takahashi's official Pikmin 4 comic strips.


General Stats and Premise
View attachment 394798

Down Special: Lumiknoll Dig
View attachment 394800

Neutral Special: Glowmob
View attachment 394801

Side Special: Mega Rush
View attachment 394802

Up Special: Space Dog Lift-off
View attachment 394803

Misc. Mechanics
View attachment 394804

Final Smash: The Glowbomb
View attachment 394805
I am now sold on Oatchi. Let the Oatchi Sweep begin
 
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