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SEGA: Kazuma Kiryu
Konami: Bomberman or Alucard
As a disclaimer I've sunk like 270 hours into Monster Hunter Rise so my opinions are probably tinged with bias and copium. That being said, I will argue that there's some factors that could've played into the lack of a playable Hunter.
Specified as a weirdo pick that nobody would see coming. Since he was also a pre-order bonus I don't think he operated under the same Representative of early Switch titles that almost certainly would've been in the base game if there was enough time Planned in advance for a big upcoming third-party game A recent smash success that Sakurai was known to be a big fan of An absolutely legendary series in Japan, and while I'll have to check, I'm sure there were a good few Japanese votes on the ballot for 'em. They also clearly jumped at the chance to shill DQ XIS, but that seems more like a bonus to me A hotly-requested character who was stated to have done well on the ballot A bit smaller compared to the other DLC fighters, but still represents a highly influential company and series with a strong legacy in the fighting game sphere, including in Smash's origins From the best selling game period. Probably also saw a good few requests going off of that An iconic villain, I'll need the source but I'm pretty sure he was a popular Japanese request. Also addresses the complaints of miniscule Final Fantasy content Representative of one of the most successful fighting game franchises, as well as one of Bandai-Namco's flagships He wasn't even planned originally, but he also won the ballotDid you just call FE 3rd party?As a disclaimer I've sunk like 270 hours into Monster Hunter Rise so my opinions are probably tinged with bias and copium. That being said, I will argue that there's some factors that could've played into the lack of a playable Hunter.
Firstly, almost three-quarters of the series' sales come solely from World, Rise, and their DLC expansions. Ultimate's base roster was set around 2016, before either of those games released. Monster Hunter was still pretty successful back then, but it's wasn't gigaton record-smashing successful at the time - It was still just a cult classic among Western audiences, and the likes of Street Fighter and Mega Man almost certainly outsold it, on top of Resident Evil's perennial records. Sakurai probably thought it was big enough to warrant a boss, but wasn't top priority for a fighter. Now that Monster Hunter has struck gold overseas and shattered almost all of Capcom's records, I'm sure the profile of a playable Hunter would've shot up massively.
Secondly, Ultimate's number one priority was getting in every single veteran, leaving room for only six full new fighters and a handful of clones. It's second priority was filling out ballot picks; As mentioned above, Monster Hunter was still niche in the West at the time, and any potential candidates it might've had (Hunters, Palicoes, maybe Rathalos if we're feeling bold) probably weren't topping the lists. There just wasn't enough room, and a Hunter wasn't big enough yet to reach those high standards.
Third, the DLC focused primarily on third-party characters. The first pass was settled around late 2018, after World had hit it big, and the second pass was set up around late 2019-early 2020, and could've possibly accounted for Monster Hunter Rise as a major Switch exclusive. However, given the wide range of third-parties Nintendo dealt with over the course of Ultimate's lifespan, I think it's safe to say competition was tight for those twelve DLC slots. The fighters we did get were:
Everyone has some pretty solid reasons to be added, and when you look at the video game industry as a whole, I'm certain you can find a lot of other potential candidates who also have strong incentives to be added to Smash. Hell, we didn't even get a Capcom fighter during the entire DLC cycle, but Capcom alone has a lot of other big names like Chun-Li, Dante, and the Resident Evil cast.
So to conclude, Monster Hunter's rise to fame happed roughly around Ultimate's life cycle, after the base game fighters were picked, and there were just too many potential options that could've (or did) been added instead and not enough room for everyone. Given the circumstances I don't think "well it hasn't happened yet" is a good reason discount a Hunter's chances for Smash 6
It was a big enough deal to make a collaborative effort to get not only costumes in Smash For, but also a boss that doubles as an Assist and music tracks in Ultimate, and then costumes again and Spirits post-release, but not "enough" to get a fighter when even as far as the costumes first came to Smash, the franchise had surpassed Mega Man and was rapidly encroaching Street Fighter's numbers?As a disclaimer I've sunk like 270 hours into Monster Hunter Rise so my opinions are probably tinged with bias and copium. That being said, I will argue that there's some factors that could've played into the lack of a playable Hunter.
Firstly, almost three-quarters of the series' sales come solely from World, Rise, and their DLC expansions. Ultimate's base roster was set around 2016, before either of those games released. Monster Hunter was still pretty successful back then, but it's wasn't gigaton record-smashing successful at the time - It was still just a cult classic among Western audiences, and the likes of Street Fighter and Mega Man almost certainly outsold it, on top of Resident Evil's perennial records. Sakurai probably thought it was big enough to warrant a boss, but wasn't top priority for a fighter. Now that Monster Hunter has struck gold overseas and shattered almost all of Capcom's records, I'm sure the profile of a playable Hunter would've shot up massively.
Secondly, Ultimate's number one priority was getting in every single veteran, leaving room for only six full new fighters and a handful of clones. It's second priority was filling out ballot picks; As mentioned above, Monster Hunter was still niche in the West at the time, and any potential candidates it might've had (Hunters, Palicoes, maybe Rathalos if we're feeling bold) probably weren't topping the lists. There just wasn't enough room, and a Hunter wasn't big enough yet to reach those high standards.
Third, the DLC focused primarily on third-party characters. The first pass was settled around late 2018, after World had hit it big, and the second pass was set up around late 2019-early 2020, and could've possibly accounted for Monster Hunter Rise as a major Switch exclusive. However, given the wide range of third-parties Nintendo dealt with over the course of Ultimate's lifespan, I think it's safe to say competition was tight for those twelve DLC slots. The fighters we did get were:
Everyone has some pretty solid reasons to be added, and when you look at the video game industry as a whole, I'm certain you can find a lot of other potential candidates who also have strong incentives to be added to Smash. Hell, we didn't even get a Capcom fighter during the entire DLC cycle, but Capcom alone has a lot of other big names like Chun-Li, Dante, and the Resident Evil cast.
So to conclude, Monster Hunter's rise to fame happed roughly around Ultimate's life cycle, after the base game fighters were picked, and there were just too many potential options that could've (or did) been added instead and not enough room for everyone. Given the circumstances I don't think "well it hasn't happened yet" is a good reason discount a Hunter's chances for Smash 6
Kinda feel like they would've refused to let Nintendo/Namco bring back the Monster Hunter Mii costumes if they don't want the Hunters in any more crossover fighters.
Well, Koei Tecmo co-developed the game, so?
I appreciate your writeup and I hear you, the competition was pretty fierce. But just as well, I don't think it's an unreasonable concern to have. I'm certainly not discounting it altogether, like I said plenty can change over the last 5-6 years and I noted it as an honorable mention for a reason.
I mean, at the end of the day they're just basic costumes, not a full-fledged character with a unique moveset. Perhaps that was good enough for them.
The difference here is that the Mii costumes are just that: costumes. It's Miis dressed as the hunters, not actual hunters from the series. Having characters dress in various hunter gear is a very common for MonHun collabs, but outside of MvC:I I cannot think of any other instance where an actual Hunter with a defined personality (even just a bland blank slate) has appeared in another game and wasn't just existing characters playing dress-up.
I fully support Rajang.
Speaking as someone who only played the first couple hours of Xenoblade 1*... It's fine. The character choices are fine (Noah and/or Mio is probably happening next game), the music selection is good, and the stages are... adequate. I like Metal Face but he's the only good part about Gaur Plain.So, how do guys feel about the Xenoblade representation in Smash?
We have two (three) characters in Shulk, Pyra and Mythra.
We have two stages with Gaur Plains and Cloud Sea of Alrest.
We have lots of music tracks from 1 and 2.
We have no items but Riki is an assist trophy.
There are lots of spirits from 1 and 2 with a few other spirits from X. And of course, there's the promotional XC3 spirit.
Overall, I think Xenoblade is doing really well. The two (three) characters are some of the franchise's most popular and important. The stages are great. I especially like Cloud Sea of Alrest. The music selection is great even if there are very few remixes. Riki is a fun assist trophy and the spirits all make sense.
Everything in the game seems to be great (except Shulk's face). I don't think it's fair to count the absence of XC3 stuff because that game came out much later. I do wish there was more XCX stuff though. Elma would be rad, but even a XCX stage or some music tracks would go a long way. Honestly I'd just love more XCX spirits. There's only five and they feel more like obligations.
What do you guys think?
There are some minor things like how I think Shulk needs a visual overhaul, he sounds nothing like how he does in the game, he looks weird and they should remove Riki from his Final Smash because he is already an assist and it ruins the reference because you can only have 3 characters in your party including Shulk. The Moveset is fine, it's just cosmetic problems I have. Other than that though it is in a good spot, maybe promote Metal Face to an actual boss.So, how do guys feel about the Xenoblade representation in Smash?
We have two (three) characters in Shulk, Pyra and Mythra.
We have two stages with Gaur Plains and Cloud Sea of Alrest.
We have lots of music tracks from 1 and 2.
We have no items but Riki is an assist trophy.
There are lots of spirits from 1 and 2 with a few other spirits from X. And of course, there's the promotional XC3 spirit.
Overall, I think Xenoblade is doing really well. The two (three) characters are some of the franchise's most popular and important. The stages are great. I especially like Cloud Sea of Alrest. The music selection is great even if there are very few remixes. Riki is a fun assist trophy and the spirits all make sense.
Everything in the game seems to be great (except Shulk's face). I don't think it's fair to count the absence of XC3 stuff because that game came out much later. I do wish there was more XCX stuff though. Elma would be rad, but even a XCX stage or some music tracks would go a long way. Honestly I'd just love more XCX spirits. There's only five and they feel more like obligations.
What do you guys think?
...Yeah? Space is tight when you have only ten-ish slots planned for your passes and like half the game industry you could reasonably negotiate with (Piranha Plant was a bonus and Sora wasn't originally planned, so I don't think they were factored into the original plan). Hell, Resident Evil was Capcom's top seller, and has still sold 6- million more copies than Monster Hunter, and it only got four Spirits. Actually we could make a solid argument for RE in regards to the original topic starter, but let's not get sidetracked.
I'd chalk that up to simple pragmatism. Monster Hunter is usually pretty light on plot, and the handfuls of defined characters are usually replaced each game; Out of those handfuls, only a few of them actually do any hunting, and they'll always be second fiddle to the player's avatar. Plus, those avatars are usually covered head-to-toe in gear, with little distinctive traits of their own. So, the most recognizeable aspects of the series are the armors and monsters. A quick armor set or weapon would be the easiest bit of crossover media - And what do you think is more enticing to a player, decking themselves out in Rathalos armor or staring at an NPC who's much cooler than you could ever hope to be (And probably an OC, no less, given the whole blank slate avatar thing)?
Eh, I wouldn't be that quick to definitively say it's because the devs are against it. At the moment, the only reliable source on that is eleven years old and has been later contradicted. With as wide a selection pool as the one Smash has, sometimes a character isn't added simply because they aren't added.
Eh... Maybe for another series, but Smash places a big emphasis on player characters and translating the gameplay of a game. Felynes are funny marketable mascots, but they're primarily support characters. They're only playable appearance was in Generations, where they're still low-damage support characters. If we're talking about the first, possibly only MH fighter in Smash, I highly doubt we'll see a Palico.
Metal Face should be a real boss next time.
I dunno, selling over a hundred million copies seems pretty dang mainstream to me. I don't doubt Chun-Li would see an a lot of cheering and excitement, but I feel like you're underselling how big MH has gotten. Besides, Smash is no stranger to generic avatars; Our first look at Ultimate was a pair of nameless Inklings looking at a burning Smash Ball and people went wild. Partially because HOLY CRAP NEW SMASH BROS, but Splatoon's a major pillar for Nintendo now. You can't tell me people weren't hyped just to see Splatoon represented in Smash.
I was mainly listing off all the DLC characters, but I grouped the first-parties at the top. I was trying to cover all the DLC fighters to explain why the DLC collection was so jam-packedSharkLord sorry for repeating what fog said, but since when Fire Emblem is Third Party?
Yeah but then we could force Smash players to read iconic quotes like "Meow! What a furr-ocious meownster!" and "Fly with furr-ious force!"
mynintendonews.com
In general a lot of ATs feel like they're halfway to being fighters. I can easily see Sakurai going "Ah, this guy's super cool and got a lot of requests, but there's not enough time for another fighter. Best we can manage is putting the coolest moves on the trophy." Black Knight, Alucard, to a degree Shovel knight also feel like "fighter-lite" ATs the way Zero does.
Chun-Li is a huge deal.
I think they're referring to Byleth being listed as "Planned in advance for a big upcoming third-party game", which I assume was just a typo since it was primarily about the third parties lol
Technically it's more like 1/3 but a lot of post-Brawl fighters are made pretty much the same way that Wolf was but with extra steps anyway so the rest of the attack animations he needs pretty much already exist thanks to the likes of Roy and Cloud.
Honestly? Sometimes I wonder if the "one fighter per company in a wave" rule is just something we're imagining. Why would Nintendo only settle for one character at a time? They're going to pay the licensing fees to the company regardless, so it's not like they're worried about Capcom or Sega or whever getting extra money. If the apparent replacement is another third-party, why would it matter? They'll paying for someone regardless. And they still negotiated for Snake back and both of the Belmonts in Ultimate's base game, on top of Bomberman as an Assist Trophy, so they can obviously license multiple characters at a time. Obviously making a fighter takes more than an Assist Trophy, but would licensing them really cost more? Genuine question, I'm no legal expert but I'm not sure if it would matter in the first place.
Asking for two more Mega Man characters would be really pushing it, but my fantasy has always been a Simon/Richter repeat with .EXE as the major Japan appeal character and Zero as the Western popular fighter. Different movesets and playstyles obviously, just a dual inclusion that pleases fans worldwide.
Whoever is more pressing to you probably just boils down to your preference in how characters are selected. Aside from the fact that I'm a bigger Street Fighter fan, I also just identify more with established characters over avatars. This doesn't make Monster Hunter less viable on paper, it just makes their addition a bit less personal or valuable to myself. Sakurai and Nintendo have shown no hesitation to add those kind of characters, but we got Sephiroth just as well as we got Hero. I feel like that illustrates the point nicely.
