Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Perkilator]

You know, I really am surprised that they didn't include a Gen 8 Pokémon in either Volume of the Fighters Pass. However you feel about the games themselves, you'd think that a rep from Galar would've been a shoe-in for DLC, especially with how successful Sword and Shield were.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You know, I really am surprised that they didn't include a Gen 8 Pokémon in either Volume of the Fighters Pass. However you feel about the games themselves, you'd think that a rep from Galar would've been a shoe-in for DLC, especially with how successful Sword and Shield were.

Ironically?

I think it came out too late to be planned for Fighter's Pass 2.

I know that sounds really strange with Byleth in the prior pass, but I think they're the one exception.

 

[Ivander]

My opinion on SW/SH is that any video game that doesn't go down in price is my enemy. This includes all other Nintendo games, of course.

You say it includes all other Nintendo games. But according to your opinion, Everybody 1-2-Switch is your best friend then, considering it went down in price before release.

 

[JCKirbs]

You and I both know they made Robin way too slow for no reason. Their kit does not justify that ass tier speed.

He feels more aligned with how the rest of the Fire Emblem characters are designed, on the contrary.

The slowest ones either excel in strength (Ike) and/or distance (Byleth, Corrin), while the ones who specialize in closer combat (Marth, Roy) excel in speed and movement with a more consistent damage output.

Robin has plenty of projectiles with different functions, as well as a potent sword for closer combat. If he had more movement options, he'd only be more annoying to fight.

 

[Lionfranky]

Last question’s answer is no, because the most requested non-Nintendo characters don’t have video game origins like —>

I meant characters that don't have their games on Nintendo platform, not video game origin.
Master Chief is a video game character foremost. And, don't bring novel coming before game.
Otherwise, so many characters in Smash wouldn't count as video game characters just because their promo materials got released before their actual games.

 

[RileyXY1]

I meant characters that don't have their games on Nintendo platform, not video game origin.
Master Chief is a video game character foremost. And, don't bring novel coming before game.
Otherwise, so many characters in Smash wouldn't count as video game characters just because their promo materials got released before their actual games.

Particularly Lucario, who was in an anime movie that released before Diamond and Pearl.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Everything I was psyched about in the Direct was remakes/remasters.

Trails in the Sky remake (Estelle for Smash!)
Castvania DS collection
Capcom Fighting collection 2

I'm also excited about that Capcom Fighting Collection 2. Just too bad it didn't have Tech Romancer. I would have liked to give that game a try.

 

[TheQuester]

Thoughts on Alear's (Engage) chances?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Thoughts on Alear's (Engage) chances?

Their chance is dependent on timing.

We can't really determine whether or not they have good timing just yet.

 

[osby]

Thoughts on Alear's (Engage) chances?

If the dev team is actively looking at a new Fire Emblem game that aligns with the timing of the next Smash, I don't see them getting in.

But I'd say they have a moderate chance of making it in if Sakurai is inspired by the emblem mechanic and wants to include it.

 

[fogbadge]

They werent well recieved, i still see people dunking on the graphics and story to this day, you dont get something like that if people actually liked your game.
The first main series Pokemon game on console was Colosseum on the gamecube over a decade before Sword and shield were released, but people gaslit themselves into thinking Sword and shield was the first so they bought it to check it outthen moved on to the next thing.

see the mistake you’ve made there is assuming opinions are binary. People can complain about things they like. I have seen plenty of people complain about graphics and or stories for video games they love. Opinions aren’t all one way or the other and it’s a mistake to think that they are

colosseum does not count as a main series game

 

[JCKirbs]

Thoughts on Alear's (Engage) chances?

The second another Fire Emblem game comes out, I'd say their chances are next to none unless they're really popular and/or IS actively wants them in a Smash game.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Potentially stupid question.

Does Steve count as a PoC?

 

[Noipoi]

I give Sword/Shield a lot of ****, mainly for the story and the region design, but at the end of the day they’re not awful games by any means. Just kind of bland.

Certainly nothing worth getting heated over

 

[Ivander]

Thoughts on Alear's (Engage) chances?

50/50. Either they are in or they are not.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I give Sword/Shield a lot of ****, mainly for the story and the region design, but at the end of the day they’re not awful games by any means. Just kind of bland.

Certainly nothing worth getting heated over

You'd think these people haven't seen a "just okay" game before.

 

[dezeray112]

I'm also excited about that Capcom Fighting Collection 2. Just too bad it didn't have Tech Romancer. I would have liked to give that game a try.

I predict maybe perhaps if they do the next Capcom Fighting Collection, Tech Romancer may have a possible chance to be included.

 

[Louie G.]

Thoughts on Alear's (Engage) chances?

I think they can continue to coast by on Three Houses given that it’s still a prominent Switch game, Byleth was added late into Ultimate’s life and Engage failed to match its impact or popularity. I don’t exactly anticipate another major game will come and obscure Engage either, I just do not think adding a new Fire Emblem protagonist will be a priority this time.

As mentioned before, Alear’s best chance is that they inspire some striking new gameplay mechanic or moveset potential. That’s possible, but it really just doesn’t seem like this game set the world on fire in a way that makes it tremendously likely. We have word from Sakurai that even Awakening may have missed the boat if Smash 4’s timing had been different… Alear is far past that honeymoon period.

 

[Shinuto]

Potentially stupid question.

Does Steve count as a PoC?

He doesn't qualify as a person. Its an abomination.

 

[Will]

Potentially stupid question.

Does Steve count as a PoC?

I don’t think he has an intentional race in the same way Notch said he wasn’t designed to have a gender.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I don’t think he has an intentional race in the same way Notch said he wasn’t designed to have a gender.

He's supposed to be a low-res version of Tommy Vercetti. In that regard, his race would be the exact same as Mario and Luigi.

 

[Noipoi]

I think they can continue to coast by on Three Houses given that it’s still a prominent Switch game, Byleth was added late into Ultimate’s life and Engage failed to match its impact or popularity. I don’t exactly anticipate another major game will come and obscure Engage either, I just do not think adding a new Fire Emblem protagonist will be a priority this time.

As mentioned before, Alear’s best chance is that they inspire some striking new gameplay mechanic or moveset potential. That’s possible, but it really just doesn’t seem like this game set the world on fire in a way that makes it tremendously likely. We have word from Sakurai that even Awakening may have missed the boat if Smash 4’s timing had been different… Alear is far past that honeymoon period.

Could you imagine? If a Smash goes by without a new FE character certain parts of the fanbase will treat it like the second coming of Christ.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

He doesn't qualify as a person. Its an abomination.

Bro thought this was worth posting in 2024.

 

[Will]

He's supposed to be a low-res version of Tommy Vercetti. In that regard, his race would be the exact same as Mario and Luigi.

It all makes sense now…

 

[Louie G.]

He's supposed to be a low-res version of Tommy Vercetti. In that regard, his race would be the exact same as Mario and Luigi.

This is unfortunately a false rumor, but the resemblance is still striking. I’d love to believe it anyway.

I wouldn’t fault you for considering Steve to be a POC, although it seems not even Mojang is really sure about it. As conveyed by his hilariously inconsistent skin tone across official merch. I feel it’s maybe a bit too unclear to consider explicit representation, vs an unshakably black character like Marina or Rodin for example, but if someone sees themselves represented in Steve that’s great.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

I actually don't remember the writing in Sword/Shield being all that bad. The story absolutely is, but not the writing.

Compare that to X & Y, where the story is only somewhat less bad, and the writing is absolute GARBAGE!

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Better moveset potential

Really?... I'd imagine that banking on her most unique aspect would probably result in a slower, more predictable moveset that relies mostly on set-ups, like Rosalina with Luma-shaped Mechakoopas, Pac-Man minus whatever versatility he has, or Robin who sacrifices speed for everything else.

You and I both know they made Robin way too slow for no reason. Their kit does not justify that ass tier speed.

This interaction is weird to me because it implies that being a slow, methodical fighter means that they have less moveset potential.

And maybe that's not what you guys are trying to communicate, but I've seen similar arguments like "they'd be a zoner so therefore they don't fit into Smash very well" before and I don't really know how I feel about that.

 

[ninjahmos]

I predict maybe perhaps if they do the next Capcom Fighting Collection, Tech Romancer may have a possible chance to be included.

I'm still kinda hoping they'll do Capcom Beat 'Em Up Bundle 2, where they rerelease their licensed beat 'em ups (Cadillacs & Dinosaurs, Alien VS Predator, Dungeons & Dragons, etc.)

Although, they may have more issues with that than with SNK for Capcom Fighting Collection 2.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I wouldn’t fault you for considering Steve to be a POC

Well, uh...that's the thing. I don't, but only because I haven't put much thought into what race he is.

Being based on Tommy or not, that would actually contribute to the idea that Steve's race is ambiguous, because Tommy Vercetti is pretty tan himself, but you can argue it comes from him spending so much time in the hot Florida sun.

 

[Louie G.]

Well, uh...that's the thing. I don't, but only because I haven't put much thought into what race he is.

I was responding generally to Swamp’s question, that wasn’t really directed at you. It was a separate thought. Sorry if that was unclear.

 

[DarthEnderX]

If we get the entire trilogy remade across the Switch and Switch 2, this is PERFECT timing for her inclusion and Trails is THE franchise for Nihon Falcom.

I'm a little disappointed that it looks like it's not a tactics game anymore.

But yes! Estelle and Kiryu for Smash! The time is now!

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Pokémon Sword/Shield is a fun game that could be so much more than it is. The story is a bunch of sub plots that weave together pretty decently, except for the evil team subplots. Marnie isn't given enough screen time to have anything to do, so she just exists, which makes Team Yell lack any sort of dramatic impact in comparison to other non-evil teams like Team Skull. Chairman Rose's subplot happens entirely offscreen until the very end so when they're having their dramatic "oh no we gotta stop Chairmen Rose" moment, it's just funny because he hasn't done anything yet. And then he hits the nuke button for some reason.

But that's OK, because story isn't exactly what the fans are here for. In terms of gameplay, the battle system is showing its age and acts a bit clunkier than it should, but if that doesn't bother you, you've got a Pokémon game on your hands. Everything is just as fun as it was before, and the Wild Area allows for a ton of diversity in team comp from playthrough to playthrough, not to mention the allowance for types you don't normally get early game, such as Ice. It's genuinely so fun to replay. The new EXP Candy system also allows for you to switch out party members without a ton of hassle due to them being underleveled.

That last part is probably what people latched onto the most. I'd imagine its similar for Pokémon Scarlet/Violet, though I personally put my foot down on that one so I can't say exactly how good/fun it is or isn't. The next game will probably be missing just as much potential while still being quite successful. I'd also imagine that any Gen 8+ pick will be considered a "controversial" pick that actually ends up being fairly well received anyway.

 

[Opossum]

Potentially stupid question.

Does Steve count as a PoC?

Steve's a weird case where, particularly in the early days, he pretty obviously had some degree of non-whiteness, but then in more recent years Microsoft/Mojang have been whitewashing him to such a degree that it makes Brock from Pokémon look consistent.

But then Smash corrected course and gave him more of his classic look. Ultimately it's up to interpretation I guess, but it's still pretty bad that you have to count Steve if you want to say Ultimate has six non-white, non-Japanese characters on a roster of 89.

 

[SharkLord]

I’d argue Gooey’s potential is pretty potent. He has access to any of the abilities Kirby used in Dream Land 3, and he is a Dark Matter blob that can adopt elements of Dark Matter / Zero as they see fit. This is what Star Allies does. A lot of people have voiced interest in playable Dark Matter and IMO this would be the most productive way to do it.

And being such a simple design, you can kinda make him contort into whatever you like. Plenty of creative liberty but there’s a lot to garner from what’s already there too. Not that I think he’s a frontrunner or anything but he’s got about as much potential as Adeleine does. It’s kinda hard to argue any of these characters have less potential than the other since Star Allies gave them all a bunch of fun stuff to do.

Also the tongue, don't forget the tongue.

I think it's worth noting that in Kirby Fighters 2, there's five non-Kirby fighters. As you'd expect, there's Bandana Dee, Meta Knight, and King Dedede, the most prominent characters since Return to Dreamland. There's Magolor, who had only been playable once before at that point, but still makes frequent appearances in a supporting role, would later get an extra mode to himself in RtDL DX, and is arguably the next most important character after the main quartet. And the last one? Gooey, who had two appearances early on, vaporized from the franchise for over two decades, and only came back as part of the big 25th anniversary ensemble in Star Allies.

Also worth consideration is the unlock order. Bandana Dee is already unlocked when you first boot up the game, Meta Knight and Dedede have to be unlocked by playing the story mode, and Magolor's unlocked at Rank 39, pretty far into the game. Gooey is actually one of your first unlocks, at Rank 3. Now, Gooey hasn't had much appearances since then, but it's still interesting that he out of all characters is placed so prominently in the roster.

 

[JCKirbs]

This interaction is weird to me because it implies that being a slow, methodical fighter means that they have less moveset potential.

And maybe that's not what you guys are trying to communicate, but I've seen similar arguments like "they'd be a zoner so therefore they don't fit into Smash very well" before and I don't really know how I feel about that.

Oh yeah, I've heard arguments about that for characters like Geno, but that's not what I'm trying to convey.

Rather, that I personally believe moveset potential stems from more than just '(X) character does something unique, therefore they will automatically be fun to play as than (Y) character, have more to work with in comparison, and will be flawlessly translated to Smash... and this doesn't even address how one's visual appearance also somehow factors into how 'worthy' they could be. This has routinely applied to the case for potential Kirby candidates (as that was part of the topic to begin with), because apparently that's how some people are still thinking nowadays.

I could thoroughly highlight the nuances surrounding characters that seem better than others, if it meant bringing them to a level that could better visualize what they might actually bring to the table. But at this point, it's not a Dee 'Me against the World' situation anymore, so it's only worth bringing them up when they're actually relevant.

Also, I wouldn't be any better throwing certain characters under the bus for simply looking like they'd bring something new to the game. If I ever do so, it'd probably occur via an emotion-based opinion or something, frivolous by nature and utterly meaningless in the long-term.

But regardless, anything I do say is also from a completely subjective standpoint, and isn't trying to portray an end-all statement by any means. Instead, a correlation with the current outlook I could perceive for a character based on their abilities, appearances, and/or playstyle(s) in existing media.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

Really?... I'd imagine that banking on her most unique aspect would probably result in a slower, more predictable moveset that relies mostly on set-ups, like Rosalina with Luma-shaped Mechakoopas, Pac-Man minus whatever versatility he has, or Robin who sacrifices speed for everything else.

(This is speaking from a competitive lens, since any character could be given a pass from a casual perspective. But even then, some of the most exciting matches are gloves-off competitive based.)

Adeleine has a pretty quick setup in Star Allies, as well as a move that lets her control the big bosses she creates. I'd imagine she'd be more of a fusion of Pokemon Trainer's idea with some Rosalina sprinkled in. Could still be a volatile moveset, though.

I think it's worth noting that in Kirby Fighters 2, there's five non-Kirby fighters. As you'd expect, there's Bandana Dee, Meta Knight, and King Dedede, the most prominent characters since Return to Dreamland. There's Magolor, who had only been playable once before at that point, but still makes frequent appearances in a supporting role, would later get an extra mode to himself in RtDL DX, and is arguably the next most important character after the main quartet. And the last one? Gooey, who had two appearances early on, vaporized from the franchise for over two decades, and only came back as part of the big 25th anniversary ensemble in Star Allies.

Also worth consideration is the unlock order. Bandana Dee is already unlocked when you first boot up the game, Meta Knight and Dedede have to be unlocked by playing the story mode, and Magolor's unlocked at Rank 39, pretty far into the game. Gooey is actually one of your first unlocks, at Rank 3. Now, Gooey hasn't had much appearances since then, but it's still interesting that he out of all characters is placed so prominently in the roster.

I wouldn't qualify Fighters 2 as evidence. That game was apparently only made as a pandemic project, and the quality shows pretty hard.

 

[Laniv]

Potentially stupid question.

Does Steve count as a PoC?

Steve is a character that is ambiguously brown, that is, he's dark enough that he stands out from others, but his actual race is unclear. And as Opossum said, the character got very whitewashed in merchandise. I mean, who is this guy:

I'm black and I personally don't count him as a character of color, but I don't fault anyone who does count him. EDIT: Especially since he's one of the few brown people in this game that isn't an alt for someone else, the other being Ganondorf who is... well, you know.

Here's why Barret Wallace should be the next Final Fantasy character

 

[HyperSomari64]

ambiguously brown

Wario Wario Wario doesn't like TV Tropes

 

[JCKirbs]

Adeleine has a pretty quick setup in Star Allies, as well as a move that lets her control the big bosses she creates. I'd imagine she'd be more of a fusion of Pokemon Trainer's idea with some Rosalina sprinkled in. Could still be a volatile moveset, though.

Presumably so, seeing that she's able to control her wildcard creations directly or leave them to act freely on their own. Perhaps she could also draw smaller creations to distract opponents while she spends a little more time painting boss creations.

Of course I don't think she'd be able to mount a boss like Kracko and move around that way, but I would like if a handful of her creations had different movement and attack patterns like Pac-Man's fruit as well. Star Allies already showed signs of that, but I think it could be expanded upon more.

I think one of Adeleine's inherent strengths would be recognizing various aspects of the Dark Matter Trilogy through her art as well, so that's also something.

 

[BuckleyTim]

Re: Pokemon's Quality

I think Pokemon is definitely hurt by it's release schedule more than anything else, and I really wouldn't be surprised if we hit a breaking point in terms of 'how well the game runs vs when it "needs" to be out' once we jump hardware again.... but idk, I feel like I "grew out" of pokemon at this point. I still like the character and mon designs, but I think what'd I want out of the series is better fulfilled by something in the indie space, like Casette Beasts.

Re: Kirby reps in smash

I just think it'd be perfect if we got a character to rep the Dark Matter Trilogy in addition to BWD. Yes, I'm incredibly biased for Adeline because of a certain blue-and-white webcomic of yore..

Re: PoC in Smash

It sucks that of the prominent PoC characters Nintendo has, I can't rate any of them as "the most possible next rep for that franchise" just yet. Marina obviously has to contend with the expected Octoling pick, Twintelle has to contend with Spring Man, Ninjara, even Ribbon Girl to an extent, Rodin would be awesome but with the Bayonetta IP's current reception I doubt they'll focus as hard as they could on the series next game. Maybe Doc Louis? But I feel like most punch-out fans are channeling their energy into Mac getting reworked next game...

Here's an idea for a surprise pick on that front: Lifeline from Apex Legends, considering that seems to be the battle royale that's doing the best in Japan.