Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[ninjahmos]

If we ever get a PlayStation rep for Smash, and if it ever happens to be Kratos (whether he's based on his classic Greek saga design or his modern Norse saga design), I'm hoping we get a Smash remix of The Vengeful Spartan

 

[Borskaboska]

If I were making Smash just for myself, I’d definitely prioritize fan favorites over sticking strictly to the main character of every game. I do think having the main character makes the most sense in the majority of cases but it gets kind of boring to me if that’s all we ever get. In my opinion, as long as we have the main character from the first entry in a series, we should be able to get more experimental with the others. Fire Emblem, for example, should still have Marth but we shouldn’t be obligated to always go with the lord every single time. Going with someone like Tharja or Edelgarde could have been interesting alternative choices.

After seeing the disappointment some people have in Smash not meeting their expectations with getting the main character, like what happened with Rex, I can understand why that might not be the best idea for the general audience. It would have been interesting to see how fans reacted if this was always the approach from the beginning but it can be a bit tricky to expand these options going forward while keeping most people satisfied.

Sometimes I think about how different the philosophies are between the character lineups of smash and the capcom vs games. Like, MvC3 doesn't even have megaman, capcom's own mascot.
In Tastunoko, instead of megaman they had Roll in her powered up appearance and Megaman Volnutt from legends, two spin off games that are fairly niche compared to the rest of the franchise. Infact, Tron Bon is much more beloved than Megaman in the Vs games despite only appearing in legends. Thats like if instead of Mario, they had Vivian and Fawful in smash bros brawl (based).

 

[Louie G.]

In Tastunoko, instead of megaman they had Roll in her powered up appearance and Megaman Volnutt from legends, two spin off games that are fairly niche compared to the rest of the franchise. Infact, Tron Bon is much more beloved than Megaman in the Vs games despite only appearing in legends. Thats like if instead of Mario, they had Vivian and Fawful in smash bros brawl (based).

I'd say it'd be more like if they added Paper Mario and uh... Rabbid Peach maybe (lol)? Which is still quite strange, just not quite as random as plopping in two RPG characters since at least Roll and Volnutt are variants of more recognizable characters.

Tron is a different case altogether though, I guess that's more equivalent to bringing in Vivian or Fawful as a mainstay.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I support Twintelle but I don't necessarily disagree here. ARMS characters largely have the same fighting style, so it would be hard to make a second one stand out.

Just give her 3 different attachments than Min-Min.

But unless we get an ARMS 2, we should not be getting a 2nd ARMS character.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

How likely is ARMS 2?

Because I really want ARMS 2.

 

[Borskaboska]

How likely is ARMS 2?

Because I really want ARMS 2.

I feel like arms was made just to take advantage of the joy con gimmick, unless the switch 2 has a similar controller im not hopeful.
That said, we need to fund as many ARMS sequels as it takes until we get a character who is an old timey beach muscleman who punches with his handlebar mustache.

 

[fogbadge]

How likely is ARMS 2?

Because I really want ARMS 2.

I hope we get another some day. Cause I remember plenty of fun concepts people came up with

 

[RileyXY1]

I feel like arms was made just to take advantage of the joy con gimmick, unless the switch 2 has a similar controller im not hopeful.
That said, we need to fund as many ARMS sequels as it takes until we get a character who is an old timey beach muscleman who punches with his handlebar mustache.

I think it would. It's most likely that the new console is just a more powerful version of the Switch, so I'm expecting them to still have Joy-Cons.

 

[Gorgonzales]

I feel like arms was made just to take advantage of the joy con gimmick, unless the switch 2 has a similar controller im not hopeful.

ARMS worked very well with a traditional control scheme, which is available right there in the game. I don't think choice of controller matters too much.

That said, we need to fund as many ARMS sequels as it takes until we get a character who is an old timey beach muscleman who punches with his handlebar mustache.

I hope we get another some day. Cause I remember plenty of fun concepts people came up with

One of the best parts of ARMS is the character designs. They're all bangers, and some of the stuff the community has come up with shows there's still a lot of ideas to explore.

Art Credit to BromoJumbo on Insta/Twitter.

 

[Ivander]

How likely is ARMS 2?

Because I really want ARMS 2.

Might be a while since last time I checked, ARMS was done by the Mario Kart team. They might've gotten lucky with being able to do ARMS since Mario Kart 8 was ported to the Switch whereas right now, they're very clearly working on the next Mario Kart for the next system. If we get an ARMS 2, it'll likely be after the new Mario Kart is done.
Although Bandai Namco has a team doing a 3D action game for Nintendo and Namco did help with developing ARMS, which does fit as a 3D Action game. Will have to see what happens when Bandai Namco reveals the 2D action and 3D action they got the two teams for.

 

[fogbadge]

ARMS worked very well with a traditional control scheme, which is available right there in the game. I don't think choice of controller matters too much.





One of the best parts of ARMS is the character designs. They're all bangers, and some of the stuff the community has come up with shows there's still a lot of ideas to explore.

Art Credit to BromoJumbo on Insta/Twitter.

see what I mean? I’ve seen the firefighter and Christmas ideas before and they’re some of my favourites

 

[Deleted member]

Tbh I'm kind of of the opinion that as long as we have Min-Min we don't really need another ARMS character to begin with because pretty much all of them would play pretty similarly minus specific quirks like Byte having Barq or Ribbon Girl having an extra jump. Like you could give them different arms to use aside from Ramram, Megawatt, and Dragon, but I kinda feel like it'd boil down to different element attributes on the same moves (sorta like how Richter's Holy Water is aura element instead of fire like Simon's, which is why it kills Red Pikmin). Just feels like it'd be a hard sell when the Arm attacks are like jab, neutral special, forward smash, forward air, back air, side special, probably at least the tether half of up special, down special for changing arms, like a lot of the kit is just the punches that everyone in ARMS can do.

Plus none of the other characters are able to kick like Min-Min can, so unless they go all in on their specific quirk (which admittedly I could see with characters like Helix or Max Brass), then I don't really know how they could differentiate themselves, I guess? Like Twintelle for example would basically just be Min-Min with different arms and access to Witch Time/Foresight lol

I dunno, that's just my opinion on another ARMS character anyhow. Just kinda throwing it out there while ARMS is getting brought up as someone who enjoyed the game for a while when it came out.

I mean, we have characters like Toon Link and Ganondorf in the roster that play similary to other characters, so i don't think having Spring Man along Min Min would be an issue to me for gameplay reasons.
I personally think a 2nd ARMS rep just isn't really needed right now or particually wanted as far i'm aware, so it would be a "cool i guess, but why tho?", it begin fully unique or a semi-clone wouldn't change that reaction for me.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I mean, we have characters like Toon Link and Ganondorf in the roster that play similary to other characters, so i don't think having Spring Man along Min Min would be an issue to me for gameplay reasons.
I personally think a 2nd ARMS rep just isn't really needed right now or particually wanted as far i'm aware, so it would be a "cool i guess, but why tho?", it begin fully unique or a semi-clone wouldn't change that reaction for me.

That's true, the main thing for me is just it feels like ARMS could only really get a semi-clone at BEST since like half of Min-Min's moveset is just how every character in ARMS is, since so many moves are used for the regular mechanics of her home series while the rest are improv based on the fact that she's the only character in the game that uses kicks lol

Other characters could do other things for sure and different weight classes and stats would help, alongside different arms equipped (though I feel like they'd most likely just be reskins of Min-Min's light, normal, heavy attack setup minus maybe a couple?), but they'd have to share so many moves. Not to mention most of the cast is in Min-Min's Final Smash, though obviously this can be edited and Chrom shows it probably doesn't matter too much.

 

[Louie G.]

ARMS 2 is up in the air, I think a lot of people kinda spelled doom for the series prematurely. Because for many of their series, Nintendo is perfectly content releasing one entry per console. ARMS being so early in the Switch lifespan and other series like Splatoon being granted their second entry makes these optics a little dubious, but ARMS is not Splatoon. It was a moderate success, but maybe not one that calls for such frequent drops.

I'd say the likelihood of the series continuing is 50/50. It may be worth one more go at it before putting it to rest and deeming it a lost cause... it's actually kind of rare for this kind of Nintendo series to be a one and done thing, honestly. Maybe it's different nowadays, and new series are less common, but if you look back at a lot of those dormant / dead GBA era series they would at least get two or three entries. I agree that the Switch gimmick is kind of the bread and butter of the concept, but for now I'm going to assume the next console won't be too far off course.

I'd say the most damning evidence against a new ARMS is the way its tie-in comic was silently cancelled, which I'm still a bit disappointed about. What does this mean about their confidence in the series, if even something like a promotional comic was tossed out? And I want to say the series didn't quite reach the esports prominence that Nintendo was possibly holding out for. Although this predates Min Min's addition to Smash, which may have given them a bit more confidence to truck forward and give this another try. The Smash effect is real, folks.

As a side note I just want to say, even if we don't get an ARMS 2 that Min Min is still likely to return. Characters created within the Switch era onward will be a valuable asset for a roster that now has a real opportunity to represent it, her playstyle is distinctly fresh and fulfills a lesser explored niche within the roster, and we just tend not to see first party series cut altogether if we can help it. And if we did, I think ARMS has a leg up over some of the more dubious and lesser represented retro series. On paper ARMS is on par with the best selling entry of Xenoblade, lol. I think it's probably okay for now.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

As a side note I just want to say, even if we don't get an ARMS 2 that Min Min is still likely to return. Characters created within the Switch era onward will be a valuable asset for a roster that now has a real opportunity to represent it, her playstyle is distinctly fresh and fulfills a lesser explored niche within the roster, and we just tend not to see first party series cut altogether if we can help it. And if we did, I think ARMS has a leg up over some of the more dubious and lesser represented retro series. On paper ARMS is on par with the best selling entry of Xenoblade, lol. I think it's probably okay for now.

I agree with this, we've never really seen a whole first-party series get cut before outside of the Ice Climbers in 4 for obvious reasons. Definitely think Min-Min is coming back in base game.

As for ARMS 2, I don't see why they wouldn't make one when the first one did slightly better than Xenoblade 2 and Pikmin 3 Deluxe lol

 

[Guynamednelson]

This video's description says "By the way, this is the final video in the Marketing category!"

Combined with this video having a segment on Nintendo World Championships: NES Edition despite that game not being out by the time Sakurai said he's filmed the last video for his YouTube channel, I think it's safe to say we're in the endgame now.

 

[Sucumbio]

I think we're getting ARMS 2.
I think 3 Houses would still be front runner especially edleguard

 

[Kirbeh]

Re: ARMS

I don't think we'll get a second character or a sequel tbh. MinMin herself I feel is a sort of 50/50 character as far as returning next game.

I don't think she's in danger per say, but I could see her being lower priority and slipping through the cracks if they wind up being strapped for time.

Going back to the subject of a second ARMS characters though, I stand by the opinion that translating the gameplay as literally as possible was a poor decision.

The fact that a whole cast of characters with such varying builds and personalities are confined to the idea of "they get one punch for 70% of their moveset" feels like a disservice imo.

I wish Sakurai and the team had taken more creative liberties with MinMin. Maybe then a second ARMS character wouldn't seem like such a boring/limited prospect.

 

[Borskaboska]

Gotta be honest I have only ever heard people talk about MinMin in smash when they are complaining about her. As far as i can tell she just isnt that popular of a character to play or fight against. Hearing people say she is 'safe' is super weird because i think something like series representation is secondary compared to gameplay.

 

[Louie G.]

In regards to Min Min's odds, I just have a hard time justifying the thought of us getting like... Ring Fit Trainee, Officer Howard + Noah / Mio, Raven Beak, new Pokemon whatever people think we're getting from the current gen and then bumping out ARMS while presumably keeping Pyra / Mythra and Byleth too.

If ARMS missed Ultimate full stop I think we would still be talking about adding Spring Man today. Neglecting ARMS while talking about representing contemporary Nintendo IPs (of which there are not many) and Switch era releases feels like it'd be taking a step backwards. I get that Min Min is kind of annoying to play against and people think ARMS is dumb but when you get past those somewhat trivial barriers it just doesn't really make sense to cut her.

i think something like series representation is secondary compared to gameplay.

In an ideal world this is the case but, respectfully, I don't think this is really true. Both things are important, but Smash is clearly strapped with the responsibility to simultaneously offer fun gameplay opportunities and make sure Nintendo's most important series and characters are accounted for.

ARMS and Xenoblade 2 characters brought fresh gameplay opportunities sure, but it's clear they were added first and foremost because they are from ARMS and Xenoblade 2, two of the most noteworthy games to miss out on extensive base game representation. Min Min and Pyra / Mythra were potentially added themselves for their unique qualities, but that was within a more vague criteria. And we can look at a character like Isabelle, who doesn't offer as much as a character like Piranha Plant... but it's not hard to figure out which one is going to be more essential to the roster. At the end of the day, representation wins. Fortunately Smash has managed to make most of these essential characters refreshingly different anyway, so it's not that much of a problem.

But even if that was the case, Min Min is unabashedly unique. I don't really agree with the way she was designed either, but she is a weapon-swapping stretchy armed zoner, and there's nothing else like her in the game. She's unfun to play against, but so were Meta Knight or Bayonetta... and like, half of Ultimate's DLC characters. That's just the responsibility of next game to assess and adjust for accordingly.

 

[Idon]

Gotta be honest I have only ever heard people talk about MinMin in smash when they are complaining about her. As far as i can tell she just isnt that popular of a character to play or fight against. Hearing people say she is 'safe' is super weird because i think something like series representation is secondary compared to gameplay.

As a certified Min Min hater, I can say that's not really true. "Gameplay" is important, yes but there are times when the actually enjoyed gameplay takes a backseat. Smash has no shortage of obnoxious characters that have a very consistent attendance record because their novelty holds inherent value.

And for what it's worth, gameplay can be changed. Incredibly unlikely, but it is possible.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Gotta be honest I have only ever heard people talk about MinMin in smash when they are complaining about her. As far as i can tell she just isnt that popular of a character to play or fight against. Hearing people say she is 'safe' is super weird because i think something like series representation is secondary compared to gameplay.

People say the same for Olimar.

Is he not safe?

 

[Super Devon]

This video's description says "By the way, this is the final video in the Marketing category!"

Combined with this video having a segment on Nintendo World Championships: NES Edition despite that game not being out by the time Sakurai said he's filmed the last video for his YouTube channel, I think it's safe to say we're in the endgame now.

The same happened for his previous upload earlier this week:

This also has that part in the description.
"By the way, this is the final video in the Effects category!"
Yeah, I'd say we're in the endgame as well.

 

[YeppersPeppers]

I want ARMS 2 so bad. So, so bad. I love the characters and designs so much. I had a lot of fun with the gameplay and can see so many avenues for how it can grow. The comic being cancelled was a shot to the heart.

 

[Louie G.]

I just think people are unfair toward Min Min. I have my gripes with the way she was designed too... she's emblematic of a design philosophy that I hope the next Smash can step away from a bit and focus more on intuitive creative liberties that match game essence rather than replicating it full stop. Ultimate has kind of let this reach its reasonable extreme. I'm excited for characters that abide more by the philosophy that gave us the wonderfully designed base game characters.

But ARMS was made to be represented in Smash. It was one of the first things people talked about when we saw those designs for the first time. And frankly Smash getting its Dhalsim expy is - in theory - a really good idea. Everything about the game exuded potential, and that enthusiasm and/or expectation behind a character is what eventually got us Min Min. Because ARMS was part of the same conversation as Xenoblade 2, where their absence was exclusively a matter of poor timing, but nowadays few people are willing to give it that acknowledgement. A character from ARMS was once a popular request.

As Swamp said, and as I tried to highlight, there are mainstay characters who are annoying to deal with. Who are somewhat boring in execution, who aren't all that popular to play, but are not likely to be cut. Olimar is a perfect example. I think Min Min is in this camp. New Nintendo series are far and few in between these days and I think both Sakurai and Nintendo will see it as necessary to hold onto what little we've got from the last decade. The main thing I can hope for is that they have enough time to rework her into someone more dynamic and fun... because she deserves that. I love Min Min, she was the ARMS character who I wanted in Smash before I even knew we had more than one option, but I do wish I loved her more in execution.

 

[Sucumbio]

As Swamp said, and as I tried to highlight, there are mainstay characters who are annoying to deal with. Who are somewhat boring in execution, who aren't all that popular to play, but are not likely to be cut.

Is it okay that I feel his way about Mario ><

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'll be honest. I don't think a single franchise that has a character, is treated worse by the Smash fan base than ARMS.

It can be exhausting hearing people call one of your favorite games a failure, bad or braindead. I genuinely love ARMS. There's a lot of depth to it's gameplay and I regularly play more traditional fighting games. ARMS is a fun breath of fresh air with it's simple yet deep gameplay. It's all about movement, mind games and using your chosen arms to the best of your abilities. It's not combo centric or ultra flashy, but it's fun and rewarding. I love the world and it's characters, and it saddens me that Nintendo chose not to expand upon its world. I've argued for the franchise's worth many times and even after it got into Smash, so many people just seem to hate it. Maybe an ARMS 2 could improve public perception, but I don't know.

When it was revealed that ARMS was getting a character, I was full of joy. One of my favorite Switch games got to prove it wasn't just some flop at launch. And Min Min wasn't my first choice for an ARMS character, but I was super happy that she got in. As a Morrigan style character, I think she was a fantastic pick.

But then she released and people started to hate her. I'm not going to pretend her design isn't problematic, but I can still have fun playing with her. I have my own reservations about Smash players hating anything that isn't constant rush down, but even I can see Min Min is overturned in many areas. But I don't think her design is unsalvageable.

I dunno. I feel like other smaller franchises don't get this kind of treatment. Olimar has been annoying and top tier since Brawl but you never heard anyone even consider cutting him. Shulk was some unintuitive weirdo in Smash 4 and very few people considered cutting Xenoblade. Bayonetta got some people wanting her gone due to her being overpowered but nobody denied the quality of her games. The only other characters that get treated like this are the Miis and at least we're seeing Mii fans rally, asking for more appearances in more games.

I dunno. It just kind of sucks being an ARMS fan.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Gotta be honest I have only ever heard people talk about MinMin in smash when they are complaining about her. As far as i can tell she just isnt that popular of a character to play or fight against. Hearing people say she is 'safe' is super weird because i think something like series representation is secondary compared to gameplay.

I mean I could say the same thing about Sonic but I know he's not going anywhere lol

 

[Opossum]

Gotta be honest I have only ever heard people talk about MinMin in smash when they are complaining about her. As far as i can tell she just isnt that popular of a character to play or fight against. Hearing people say she is 'safe' is super weird because i think something like series representation is secondary compared to gameplay.

Hi, Min Min enjoyer here. The ones who hate her are just incredibly loud.

Honestly it's wild that more people complain about Min Min than they do Kazuya. If you want to talk about being overtuned, he's right there.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I'll be honest. I don't think a single franchise that has a character, is treated worse by the Smash fan base than ARMS.

Even worse than Fire Emblem?

If you want to talk about being overtuned, he's right there.

I do: He'd actually be more accurate to Tekken if he had less gimmicks. Giving him Tough Guy doesn't reflect how Tekken works for example.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Hi, Min Min enjoyer here. The ones who hate her are just incredibly loud.

Honestly it's wild that more people complain about Min Min than they do Kazuya. If you want to talk about being overtuned, he's right there.

Kazuya and Steve are the main two characters I imagine are getting hit with the nerf bat like MK and Bayonetta lol

Not the only ones obviously, but the main two.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Even worse than Fire Emblem?

Smash fans usually have a Fire Emblem game or two they think is okay. There are a lot of Smash loving Fire Emblem fans too.

 

[Sid-cada]

Speaking as someone who still thinks Min Min should have been Spring Man, I wonder how it would have gone down if he gotten in instead.

I think a few things might have gone differently if he were chosen...

• Spring Man radiates more "Protagonist" energy, if that makes sense, and thus would be seen as a less "weird" pick for Smash. Why'd they pick Spring Stadium instead of the Ramen Bowl as a stage? It just makes her feel even more out-of-place than she should be.
• Min Min's ability to kick, I think, let them more lean into the uniqueness of ARMS use in the game, which I think lead her over the edge in terms of her gimmick. Plus, it gives her both good close and long-range options, which means that overall it feels like she has less weaknesses than she should. Using Spring Man would have made the developers have to think harder on how to differentiate his moves instead of just trying to port over as many mechanics of ARMS as possible.
• Lastly, being able to break out of AT hell might have given Spring Man some honor that couldn't easily be replicated.

Sometimes I wonder if they might even judge Min Min's current gameplay unsalvageable and replace her with Spring Man. I could see it if they radically redesign Smash Bros next game. Then again, I'm biased for him, as I said, and mostly just think of it as a pipe dream. I wonder how people would react to that...

 

[Undella2]

It's just a thought I had, but what if they were to make zelda/sheik and samus/zero suit samus able to transform into one another again, but in the interest of not hampering their movesets, just have the transform ability done with the taunts somewhow (as was the case for samus/ZSS in Brawl to an extent)?

It's a tad odd to me that they brought back transforming characters with the Aegis girls (and in some ways also with the Pokemon Trainer's return) but Samus/ZSS can't transform anymore, not to mention Zelda/Sheik also can't transform anymore despite being the origin of the mechanic.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Sometimes I wonder if they might even judge Min Min's current gameplay unsalvageable and replace her with Spring Man. I could see it if they radically redesign Smash Bros next game. Then again, I'm biased for him, as I said, and mostly just think of it as a pipe dream. I wonder how people would react to that...

I don't really see what the point of that would be when they'd have to make normals for Spring Man anyway, and unless you're going for Little Mac levels of polarity, your first thought would probably be "Well his ranged options are covered, let's make some quick close range attacks" and run into the same problems regardless. Sure, he probably wouldn't have a reflector but I don't get why Min-Min would be "unsalvageable" and then they'd immediately turn around and make ANOTHER ARMS characters that shares like 70% of the same kit.

And I think Spring Man's "protagonist" energy is overstated because Min-Min was never really a "strange" choice when it was revealed we were getting an ARMS character. She was the most popular character and the favorite of the game's creator. There were other options thrown around but most people agreed Min-Min was at least decently likely, meanwhile Spring Man talk was basically "what if they added Spring Man and retextured his AT to look like Springtron".

 

[Pupp135]

It's just a thought I had, but what if they were to make zelda/sheik and samus/zero suit samus able to transform into one another again, but in the interest of not hampering their movesets, just have the transform ability done with the taunts somewhow (as was the case for samus/ZSS in Brawl to an extent)?

It's a tad odd to me that they brought back transforming characters with the Aegis girls (and in some ways also with the Pokemon Trainer's return) but Samus/ZSS can't transform anymore, not to mention Zelda/Sheik also can't transform anymore despite being the origin of the mechanic.

I initially thought it was a little odd that Zelda and Samus cannot transform anymore, but Pokemon Trainer and Aegis exist as transformation fighters. After thinking about it, I can understand how we got here. In the case of the Zeldas and Samuses, both iterations of the character were playable in SSBFor, but Squirtle and Ivysaur were cut in For, meaning that there was some precedence for the Zeldas and Samuses to be split from each other. Also, making Squirtle and Ivysaur separate would have excluded the Pokemon Trainer, and Pokemon Trainer was something that the developers would have wanted in Ultimate. In the case of Aegis, they were a pivot after the Rex-Aegis tag team idea proved to be too much of a technical hurdle.

Given that they’ve been split for two entries now, I don’t see a transforming Zelda or Samus coming back next entry, but I’d be open to seeing it again as it was fun to switch between Zelda and Sheik mid battle.

 

[Sid-cada]

I don't really see what the point of that would be when they'd have to make normals for Spring Man anyway, and unless you're going for Little Mac levels of polarity, your first thought would probably be "Well his ranged options are covered, let's make some quick close range attacks" and run into the same problems regardless. Sure, he probably wouldn't have a reflector but I don't get why Min-Min would be "unsalvageable" and then they'd immediately turn around and make ANOTHER ARMS characters that shares like 70% of the same kit.

My first thought would be to only keep the Neutral Special and replace the remaining 5 moves with something a bit more "Normal."

Honestly, the fact alone that Min Min has 6 moves that do the exact same thing could be seen as a problem, as it means that about a third of her arsenal is a single move, which makes her at the very least seem far more one-dimensional compared to everyone else. Even Mega-Man uses his base buster in only three moves. The fact that so much of her kit is in this Punch move means that they have to be relatively overpowered compared to the rest of her kit, as she inherently has less options compared to everyone else and thus needs this move to be more powerful for it to be worth it.

Do you think it might be possible to re-work Min Min so that her Punch move takes up less of her move set?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Do you think it might be possible to re-work Min Min so that her Punch move takes up less of her move set?

Yeah.

Make her back air some weak, long arc swat. Make her jab the only move that comes out when you tap the attack button.

Let her keep her forward air and forward tilt. Her long range options now force her to move forward and closer to her opponent ,with the exception of her Forward Smash attack. That's her committal option where she has to stay put.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Do you think it might be possible to re-work Min Min so that her Punch move takes up less of her move set?

Absolutely. Make Neutral B the Left Arm Punch and Side B the Right Arm Punch.

From there, give her new moves to fill up the missing slots. A quick arm swipe for F-Tilt, a mid-range twisting springy punch for F-air (or a swipe), you get the idea.

I'm in the same boat of thought, Punch takes up too many move slots on her and they need to dial it back a bit.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I initially thought it was a little odd that Zelda and Samus cannot transform anymore, but Pokemon Trainer and Aegis exist as transformation fighters. After thinking about it, I can understand how we got here. In the case of the Zeldas and Samuses, both iterations of the character were playable in SSBFor, but Squirtle and Ivysaur were cut in For, meaning that there was some precedence for the Zeldas and Samuses to be split from each other. Also, making Squirtle and Ivysaur separate would have excluded the Pokemon Trainer, and Pokemon Trainer was something that the developers would have wanted in Ultimate. In the case of Aegis, they were a pivot after the Rex-Aegis tag team idea proved to be too much of a technical hurdle.

Given that they’ve been split for two entries now, I don’t see a transforming Zelda or Samus coming back next entry, but I’d be open to seeing it again as it was fun to switch between Zelda and Sheik mid battle.

It's not so much the separation factor in For in that Pokemon Trainer works way better as a Transformation Character for how they balanced Ivysaur and Squirtle. Charizard can work either way, but the other two don't work well otherwise.

Zelda was never balanced well with Sheik. And Zero Suit Samus couldn't easily transform back into Samus. These two simply didn't work out well in the long run. Also, for Zelda at least, she's been changed to different versions of her, while there's only one version of Sheik(well, a TP design was created, though we don't know if it was for TP or simply for Smash based upon a TP-like design). It's actually easy to separate them. Samus and Zero Suit Samus were only justified as a full split beyond the 3DS due to being pretty difficult to switch between 'em in any battles. Overall, PT balances well with the concept(as well as it being one that doesn't change depending the entry), and also was programmed overall better into the concept.

That, and you can't really make PT work with Everyone Is Here without the Transformations. You can still do that with Samus, Zero Suit Samus, Zelda, and Sheik just fine. It may also help that you could actually play Z/S and S/Z(heh) entirely separate from each other without issues. You can't literally do that with PT. So... it's a lot of factors that go into it. Though that said, having no Ivysaur and Squirtle in Smash 4 does matter, but it's not all of it.