Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[WeirdChillFever]

Remove Fire Emblem fighters.

Rework .

There, I owned the thread.

Ganondorf but he has a moveset that’s an amalgamation of all the current Fire Emblem characters in Smash.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Say that we did get an Ultimate Deluxe?

What new characters, stages (New or returning) and modes do you think we'd get?

Hopefully Break the Targets, Board the Platforms, and Boss Rush.

 

[Dan Quixote]

Rework .

Just make him Ganon you cowards

 

[Gengar84]

I’m kind of split on Ganondorf. I love his current play style and have mained him since Melee but I agree it would be better to be more faithful to his portrayals in the Zelda games. I think a good compromise is to change his running animation to a glide and change Warlock Punch to Deadman’s Volley. I feel like his forward special needs to stay but the others could change even if I do really like Wizard’s Foot. Maybe his down special could function like Pyra’s forward special where he throws his trident and spins in place.

 

[Opossum]

It's amazing how Fire Emblem still lives rent free in some people's minds lmao. How sad.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Say that we did get an Ultimate Deluxe?

What new characters, stages (New or returning) and modes do you think we'd get?

Hopefully Break the Targets, Board the Platforms, and Boss Rush.

new characters:

• Octoling
• Elma
• Crash
• Officer Howard
• several more echoes
• MAYBE Violet from P5R (assuming not an echo)
• MAYBE a LoL character
• MAYBE a couple new additions to the third party companies we have. Neku, Phoenix, Arle...

Stages:

• (new) Sylvalum (Xenoblade Chronicles X)
• (new) Shibuya (TWEWY)
• (new) Astral Chain stage
• (new) MC. Princess Diaries (Splatoon 2)
• (new) uhh Crash stage idk what could be used
• (returning) Orbital Gate
• (returning) the Woolly World stage from Wii U

Modes:

• a proper WoL expansion, with some spirit layout rearrangements. I still plan to do an Improvements to WoL write up someday
• All Star Mode
• a proper Boss Rush

 

[Michael the Spikester]

new characters:

• Octoling
• Elma
• Crash
• several more echoes
• MAYBE Violet from P5R (assuming not an echo)
• MAYBE a LoL character
• MAYBE a couple new additions to the third party companies we have. Neku, Phoenix, Arle...

Stages:

• (new) Sylvalum (Xenoblade Chronicles X)
• (new) Shibuya (TWEWY)
• (new) MC. Princess Diaries (Splatoon 2)
• (new) uhh Crash stage idk what could be used
• (returning) Orbital Gate
• (returning) the Woolly World stage from Wii U

Modes:

• a proper WoL expansion, with some spirit layout rearrangements. I still plan to do an Improvements to WoL write up someday
• All Star Mode
• a proper Boss Rush

Poke Floats and Rainbow Road would be nice too. Not sure how likely though they'd be.

 

[CannonStreak]

Poke Floats and Rainbow Road would be nice too. Not sure how likely though they'd be.

I would love to see those two, personally speaking, as well as Mute City from Melee.

 

[DarthEnderX]

For Castlevania, I specifically want Super Castlevania 4 and Rondo of Blood/Symphony of the night.

Castlevania Chronicles is a superior CV1 remake to CV4.

One thing I would hope we get is a few more bosses. I would love classic mode updated so that we are not always fighting the hands 80% of the time.

100% agree. Give me:

Mother Brain [Metroid]
Andross(N64 version) [Star Fox]
Arceus [Pokemon]
Porky [Earthbound]
Medusa [Kid Icarus]
Liquid Snake piloting Metal Gear REX [Metal Gear]
Eggman piloting Death Egg Robot [Sonic the Hedgehog]
Dr. Wily piloting Wily Machine [Mega Man]
Safer∙Sephiroth [Final Fantasy]

...and a REAL Boss Rush mode.

Just make him Ganon you cowards

No. Ganon is perfect the way he is. As a Boss.

I’m kind of split on Ganondorf. I love his current play style and have mained him since Melee but I agree it would be better to be more faithful to his portrayals in the Zelda games. I think a good compromise is to-

Give him a completely new moveset, then give his old moveset to Black Shadow?

 

[Gengar84]

The one thing I want more than anything in Smash is another Subspace Emissary. While I admit it had flaws, it was still a blast for my brother and I to play through multiple times. I feel it was a great way to emphasize the “platform” part of “platform fighter” which I feel is the one thing Ultimate kind of dropped the ball on. I love that it also gave a chance to see the characters interact with each other beyond simple vs matches. If they made a similar mode with a compelling story that better utilized existing worlds and enemies as well as adding voiced dialogue for the characters that speak, it would be perfect. My other suggestion is to use the Stamina mechanic and drastically reduce knock back. That got a little annoying on higher difficulties.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

if Ult DX does new base game spirits too cuz im all about the little things, here's what i'd like to see:

• Undertale spirits, assuming we don't get an event within however long they plan to continue doing spirit events
• THE OTHER TMS FE CHARACTERS FFS
• Octo Expansion spirits, such as Cap'n Cuttlefish and Off the Hook's OE designs; CQ Cumber; Iso Padre, and the phone. The phone evolves.
• assuming the dummied out strings for Jet Force Gemini, Devil's Third and Blast Corps were for spirits, maybe spirits of those. at least of JFG and BC cuz Rare's already on board. Not so sure about Devil's Third
• Xenoblade DE: Future Connected (Shulk and Melia's FC designs; Kino, and Nene)
• some more indie spirits like Darkest Dungeon, Hollow Knight, Gunvolt...
• Incineroar returning means bye bye Decidueye and Lycanroc, but at LEAST give those two Spirits if nothing else
• Gooigi, I mean come on. Assuming they don’t somehow make him a Luigi echo
• Overwatch spirits. Hopefully Activision Blizzard isn’t as controversial a brand in the future as it is now

 

[DarthEnderX]

if Ult DX does new base game spirits too cuz im all about the little things, here's what i'd like to see:

It's CRIMINAL that StarTropics and Pro Wrestling don't have Spirits. They're 1st party!

 

[CannonStreak]

It's CRIMINAL that StarTropics and Pro Wrestling don't have Spirits. They're 1st party!

I would have loved to see them in. Nintendo should acknowledge such series they do not pay attention to much nowadays more, especially StarTropics.

 

[Chuderz]

If "Everywhere is Here!" ever became a thing I'd honestly want Meta Crystal and all the unique Final Destinations and Battlefields counted in order to make that official. That means counting Wii U and 3DS FD and BF as separate unique iterations of the stage.

If you wanted to be even more pedantic you could include the Melee Adventure mode stages to that list but I'd be satisfied with my initial criteria.

My hope would be that this would be apart of an Ultimate DX. I should also state that my hope for an Ultimate DX is essentially that it's Smash 6 with the same level of development a Smash 6 calls for. I think it's really the perfect solution. It's probably the most cost-effective even with the dreaded "legal nightmare" people drum it up to be. You only get one shot to do Ultimate DX and I hope they take it.

 

[HYRULESHERO42]

I kinda like how Ganondorf is currently. I don’t think he needs to be completely reworked. He’s less and less of a captain falcon clone every game.

if it please the group we can say Ganondorf is the “dragon king” character and not captain falcon. Out of the two of them I think Ganondorf is more of a dragon king

 

[DarthEnderX]

if it please the group we can say Ganondorf is the “dragon king” character and not captain falcon.

It doesn't.

He's still a Falcon semiclone. And no character should be cloned from a character from a different franchise.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

It doesn't.

He's still a Falcon semiclone. And no character should be cloned from a character from a different franchise.

I disagree. If they play well, that's all that matters. Ganon does need some tweaks, and some of those could be solved with the source material, but none of them are caused by the lack of source material content.

Anyway, what if a character has a moveset that doesn't directly reference their franchise and can be cloned into another character with few canon moves? An NES Pro Wrestler from Incineroar for example? Is there reason to object to that?

 

[Gengar84]

It doesn't.

He's still a Falcon semiclone. And no character should be cloned from a character from a different franchise.

Yeah, what’s really weird is that Ganondorf is a much more important character for Nintendo than Falcon but Ganondorf is the clone. I understand why they did it but that excuse went away starting with Brawl.

 

[HYRULESHERO42]

He's still a Falcon semiclone. And no character should be cloned from a character from a different franchise.

Not saying I fully disagree with you, but why should it matter if they are from different series? Especially as a semi clone. If it works then it works.

 

[Mamboo07]

Say that we did get an Ultimate Deluxe?

What new characters, stages (New or returning) and modes do you think we'd get?

Hopefully Break the Targets, Board the Platforms, and Boss Rush.

Requested Nintendo characters like Bandana Dee, Waluigi, Isaac and more.

 

[DarthEnderX]

If they play well, that's all that matters.

I disagree. I'm not the FGC, lot's of other things matter to me then just how a character plays. Characters aren't just functions to me.

Having one of the most famous characters, and famous villains in gaming, as a clone of a character from a dead racing franchise, that is nothing like the character is in his own games, is an insult to the character.

Not saying I fully disagree with you, but why should it matter if they are from different series?

It just does.

 

[Perkilator]

Say that we did get an Ultimate Deluxe?

What new characters, stages (New or returning) and modes do you think we'd get?

Hopefully Break the Targets, Board the Platforms, and Boss Rush.

Characters

• Waluigi
• Bandana Waddle Dee
• Dr. Eggman
• Phoenix Wright
• Alph (Olimar Echo)

I was gonna add Crash but I'm too busy being torn on him because **** Activision

Stages

• Waluigi Pinball
• Bowser's Castle
• Clash at Castle Dedede
• Dr. Eggman's Incredible Interstellar Amusement Park
• The Courtroom

Modes

• Boss Battles
• Smash Run
• Volleyball

 

[HYRULESHERO42]

I disagree. I'm not the FGC, lot's of other things matter to me then just how a character plays. Characters aren't just functions to me.

Having one of the most famous characters, and famous villains in gaming, as a clone of a character from a dead racing franchise, that is nothing like the character is in his own games, is an insult to the character.

It just does.

I’m gonna have to politely ask for a better reply than “it just does”

You stated that it is an insult to have Ganondorf be cloned off a character from a dead racing franchise - true.

Then you say that Capt Falcon plays nothing like his base game - also true.

So wait - It’s not like Ganondorf fights like a stock car driver. He fights with moves that combine his physical prowess with his dark magic mastery. It just so happens that Capt Falcon (a stock car driver of sorts) has a move set that is completely random and involves some sort of pyrokinetic martial arts. Unseen in F-Zero, dead franchise or not.

If you take both characters and view their source material - Ganondorf fits (he even drops a warlock kick in OoT to collapse the floor in the final battle) and Capt Falcon is the one littered with question marks.

We can 100% be mad about clones and semi clones. But to say Ganondorf can’t be a clone of Capt Falcon because they come from different game series is essentially a fan rule. And those get mercilessly torn to shreds around here lately.

 

[Chuderz]

Black Shadow could take Ganondorfs old moveset I think if it came down to it. Maybe Deathborn rather? I'd actually rather Deathborn be a unique F-Zero addition ideally but somebody should take the old thing and let Ganondorf finally be fully realized as a fighter.

Another alternative could be characters with reworked movesets getting a sub-menu when selected allowing for the optioning between the "Classic" moveset and the "Modern" moveset or whatever they'd wanted to call them to distinguish the choice.

 

[Yamat08]

Say that we did get an Ultimate Deluxe?

What new characters, stages (New or returning) and modes do you think we'd get?

Hopefully Break the Targets, Board the Platforms, and Boss Rush.

Above all else, I want the return of a side-scrolling Adventure Mode. I'd be okay if it were a short bout like Smash Run or Melee's Adventure, or if they just tacked on a couple platforming stages somewhere in World of Light, but ideally, I'd love a beefy mode that could practically qualify as a game all its own, much like Subspace Emissary was. Though if they're stingy about resources, I'd be fine with, and in fact welcome, a straight port of Subspace, with all the new Fighters getting the Jigglypuff, Wolf, Toon Link treatment (in fact, since they're able to use Snake again, I thought Ultimate would've been the perfect opportunity to give it a re-release of sorts).

Other than that, the things you mentioned. In fact, it's saddening that we didn't get a proper Boss Rush as is (with what we technically got being limited to one character's Classic route). Also, this seems to be an unpopular opinion, but I was fine with the generic Break The Targets stages in Brawl (and they're rather understandable given how big the roster was getting at that point). Though if nothing else, they could let us use Stage Builder to make a Break The Target stage, as well as Board The Platforms, Race To The Finish, and other objectives apart from standard vs. play.

I mentioned the new characters I wanted earlier. As for stages, just getting all of the last few returning ones would be great. Pyrosphere could either establish that Ridley as a clone, or replace it with something like Meta-Ridley. Offline Miiverse could be workable, either with staff posts, or they include fan submissions via periodic updates (and really, at this point, Miiverse should be representing a piece of Nintendo's history). Mushroomy Kingdom 1-2 should just remove some of the blocks in hazardless play. The past versions of Battlefield, Final Destination, and Meta Crystal would also be nice (and maybe a stage based on the Subspace arenas where you battled the shadow Fighters), while also making Small Battlefield a standard stage variant. But if you wanted me to pick from a small number of returning stages, I guess I'd go with Pac-Maze, Rainbow Road, Orbital Gate Assault, Woolly World, Jungle Hijinks, and at least one vertical-scroller (I know they're unpopular, but when you've got LITERALLY more than a hundred stages, it seems remiss not to have one of those for variety's sake, plus they can be disabled or just played on an Omega/Battlefield variant anyway).

More room for Mii Fighters. It's a real shame that this didn't increase along with the number of DLC costumes. For one, they could give each of the three types their own set of 99 slots rather than having it shared between the three of them. Another solution could be to give us some pre-built sets separate from our custom ones (pre-builts being things like the default Mii Fighters unlocked in World of Light or matching hat+costume sets, especially the ones based off of characters). If nothing else, they could let us store some of our Mii Fighters on an SD card (on that note, they should let us do the same with custom stages again).

And finally, more ways to customize the character and stage select screens than just hiding/showing Echoes. A lot of people complain about it not being ordered by series, and while I'm perfectly fine with release order, I can't say I'm very fond of the Echoes being next to their base characters (seriously, it doesn't feel right having a newly introduced character like Dark Samus hanging around with the original 12). A larger set of different arrangement options would be nice, but giving the player full control of the arrangement (and even the ability the remove characters/stages from the selection) would be the best solution. Let people decide whether they want to have a massive screen full of every option, or just a small selection of their favorites (assuming they do manage to keep Everyone Is Here going, I just hope they avoid having **** like Smash 3DS's separate DLC screen). They could also probably give us separate options for Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard, and maybe Pyra and Mythra (selecting them over the combined options simply disables switching and keeps the Pokemon from forcibly changing every stock, but this could also be convenient for working with amiibos and personal banlists on the CCS).

The one thing I want more than anything in Smash is another Subspace Emissary. While I admit it had flaws, it was still a blast for my brother and I to play through multiple times. I feel it was a great way to emphasize the “platform” part of “platform fighter” which I feel is the one thing Ultimate kind of dropped the ball on. I love that it also gave a chance to see the characters interact with each other beyond simple vs matches. If they made a similar mode with a compelling story that better utilized existing worlds and enemies as well as adding voiced dialogue for the characters that speak, it would be perfect. My other suggestion is to use the Stamina mechanic and drastically reduce knock back. That got a little annoying on higher difficulties.

I'm not sure I agree about the voiced dialogue. If anything, the fact that Subspace could tell a competent story through almost no usage of dialogue was another facet that made it all the more amazing (and arguably, this is still present in a majority of reveal trailers). In comparison, World of Light's opening movie felt more like pandering to the crowd who complained about that, as the few spoken lines there were very generic and don't really amount to much.

Like I said before, I'd be fine with a straight port of Subspace (even the FMVs could just be passed off as legacy content, if Snake's codecs are any indication), but if I were to have a few changes, they'd be:
-Being able to select alts. They probably weren't as big of a deal in Brawl (though Subspace missed out on overalls Wario), but since Smash4, alts have become far more crucial, even establishing whole other characters. This could also serve as a way of letting you play with the same Fighter on multiple stocks (rather than being forced to select multiple different Fighters).
-Separate stage selections for bosses. Would make things like getting to the Meta-Ridley fight a lot less of a pain in the ass (especially if there's some equivalent to the Trophy Stand for collecting bosses' Spirits).
-Probably a given, but Spirits work as a fine replacement for Stickers, especially if you can unequip them without losing them.
-When selecting Kirby, you're able to select from any one of his hats, which remain for the duration of the stage (for being pretty much SSE's star player, it's pretty ironic that Kirby's signature Copy ability is almost completely useless in that mode).
-I could go either way on stamina or percentage (maybe both depending on the stage), but I would have the Final Smash Meter be included.

But if I really wanted to ask for the impossible, I'd have a complete Subspace remaster. While I'd keep the main storyline mostly the same (only things updated being the FMVs to reflect new character designs and Alph appearing alongside Olimar, and maybe having the Ridley bosses be involved in a B plot that ultimately leads to him joining the party), there'd be the addition of a whole new side story happening alongside the events of SSE (and can be selected by scrolling to a new area off the side of the SSE map). Now, this is just delving into fanfiction territory, but I envisioned something like starting off with a competition between Inklings, that eventually balloons into a plot about how the Subspace Army are causing familiar enemies to go crazy (thus a perfect excuse to reuse the enemies from Smash Run) while also giving some insight into how Tabuu took control of Master Hand. The Inklings somehow end up joining forces with Jigglypuff, Wolf, Toon Link, and a whole host of other new characters (with Dr. Mario acting as a prominent Mario stand-in) in a journey that culminates in the return of Master Core (with Ultimate's bosses also being featured along the way). And once both storylines are completed (and all characters are rescued from Subspace), the parties from both sides meet one another for one final story featuring Galeem and Dharkon. Also, anytime a new DLC character is released, an optional stage opens up on the map which features a self-contained story about the new character joining up with everyone else.

It's CRIMINAL that StarTropics and Pro Wrestling don't have Spirits. They're 1st party!

StarTropics is notably a Nintendo IP that was exclusively released in North America. I dunno why, but despite Smash's focus on Nintendo's history, the niche of games only released outside of Japan seems to have been almost completely ignored. The only exception to this seems to be the Americanized equivalents of existing Japanese games (Elite Beat Agents and Rusty Slugger).

Yeah, what’s really weird is that Ganondorf is a much more important character for Nintendo than Falcon but Ganondorf is the clone. I understand why they did it but that excuse went away starting with Brawl.

Actually, when you think about it, it isn't Ganondorf who's an important character so much as Ganon. This is especially true at the time of Melee's release, when F-Zero X was still pretty fresh in people's memory and Ganon's new human avatar had only appeared in a single game up to that point. Ganondorf was essentially just another Agahnim who could be gone the next game. But then again, his appearance in the Space World demo would suggest that they may've already had further plans for Ganondorf (and it wasn't just his appearance in Melee that helped him rise to prominence). Still, I think my point stands that, at the time of his inclusion in Melee, Ganondorf was actually less of a crucial character than one might think.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I would love to see more indie Miis with music, at least one swordfighter

heck, not-indie Miis with music as well if possible

 

[HyperSomari64]

Say that we did get an Ultimate Deluxe?

What new characters, stages (New or returning) and modes do you think we'd get?

Hopefully Break the Targets, Board the Platforms, and Boss Rush.

A stage based on Puyo Puyo and the Konami Code as an easter egg.

 

[Chuderz]

I'd love to see Counter standardized as a universal option across the entire cast just like Grab for example. It just seems right at this point. Could even keep unique counters like Sora's and Sephiroth's intact by moving them to this input. This would free up all the Down-Specials (and Peach and Daisy's Neutral-Special) we've tragically lost to the ages.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I'd love to see Counter standardized as a universal option across the entire cast just like Grab for example. It just seems right at this point. Could even keep unique counters like Sora's and Sephiroth's intact by moving them to this input. This would free up all the Down-Specials (and Peach and Daisy's Neutral-Special) we've tragically lost to the ages.

While I don't think the special slots are "lost" to counters, I honestly like the idea of everyone having a standardized option that's either a reflector, counter or both.

Heck, make it the shield special so that way, the only ones missing out on it are Inkling and Steve.

 

[Trevenant]

All counters should just be up b with absolutely no reworks to the current OOS systems. That would make competitive a lot more enjoyable to watch

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Ultimate was made in 3 years (december 2015 - december 2018), so I imagine an Ultimate DX can be made is much less, between 2-2.5 years.

A 2024 release would be possible.

Other 25th anniversary plans that they can make:

1) Add the original Smash 64 into NSO premium service, with online features.
2) re-release HD remasters of Melee and possible Brawl with added online play (like 3D Mario All-Stars games). They already have a gamecube/wii emulator so the work wouldn’t be very difficult. Melee is very loved in lots of people and still played theses days. Brawl isn’t popular any more but would be great to have a modern way to play SSE.

Ultimate DX will not happen. The expenses just for liscensing alone would be too much. Plus Ultimate is already on the Switch so what would be the point?

The 2 options are most likely.

I think the “Switch Pro” rumor is the result of the OLED revision and Nintendo’s next system (Switch 2?) getting their wires crossed.

People are right to be skeptical of Twitter/forum insiders like NateDrake, no disrespect, but what gets me is that one of the main outlets reporting on the new system is Bloomberg. Not saying they can’t be wrong, but Bloomberg isn’t some infotainment site like IGN, it’s a fairly prestigious news site that targets mainly investors, so I’m inclined to think that whatever it is they’ve been reporting on has some basis in reality.

Could still be hot air, but it’s worth entertaining IMO.

Nintendo literally came out twice for investors personally to shoot Bloomberg down so no, they are for now credible on the same level as the average leaker.

I've been thinking about it for a bit and I believe it's quite likely that the project plan for the next Smash Bros is gonna be finalized in 2023/2024. That should be around the time when the next Nintendo console will be revealed and Smash development usually goes full force a year or so before the console releases.

Nintendo knows how much of a system seller Smash is, so they want it to release within the first two years of the console's life. That's been the case for all Smash games since Melee, and I don't see it changing. We know from Furukawa that the Switch is in the middle of it's life cycle earlier this year, which could mean that we'll get the next console in 2024/2025.

We know from Sakurai that once the project plan has been finalized, they never deviate from it and change the roster, with exceptions happening to technical hardware issues like the Chorus Kids in 4 or one of the most popular requests delaying the game like Sonic in Brawl (but with the addition of DLC the latter becomes a moot point).

What I'm trying to get at is that it's likely we won't get any characters introduced after 2024 in the base roster of the next Smash game considering the project plan will already be finalized by then. The ONLY exception to this is Pokemon, where an obligatory future slot is placed for an unknown Pokemon game that will be decided later.

For this reason mainly is why even though Ultimate is done, people shouldn't stop really supporting for their characters for Smash, in a few months after Sakurai's break he will be moving onto his next project which will be mostly likely another Smash creating his project plan for which characters to add in

A few months from now like February - May 2022 is vital for campaigners and supporters not to lose steam and start ramping up support because this is the time, believe it or not, Sakurai will be looking for candidates when we least expect it. Maybe the date too early as we are half-way so 2024 maybe prime time.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

It's amazing how Fire Emblem still lives rent free in some people's minds lmao. How sad.

I mean it lives rent free in mine. Though for a better reason but still.

 

[Chuderz]

While I don't think the special slots are "lost" to counters, I honestly like the idea of everyone having a standardized option that's either a reflector, counter or both.

Heck, make it the shield special so that way, the only ones missing out on it are Inkling and Steve.

You could but I see Shield-B as unique attack opportunities rather more than. They represent the ability to add an entirely new special to the entire cast. My counter idea is mostly to this end seeking to free up moveset design real-estate so to speak. My design philosophy would be that they're (Shield-B inputs) somewhat balanced if they remain grounded like they currently are. Just keeps things more simple that way. Then I'd say most if not all are laggy and uncancelable by roll or otherwise. Once you commit to your Shield-B you're in for it.

I'll use Sora as an example. Obviously fans are somewhat sad about his taunts "spells" being aesthetic. What if instead Aeroga was his shield be instead. Sora stabs vertically in the air and unleashes a gust of wind into the air directly above him. Like Megaman's Up-Air except Sora's attack would be stronger but doesn't go as far. Could also be aesthetically different than the usual Smash gust of wind but could also repurpose that asset to great effect there as well.

Ultimate DX will not happen. The expenses just for liscensing alone would be too much. Plus Ultimate is already on the Switch so what would be the point?

The 2 options are most likely.

There are multiple ways to package an Ultimate DX that would very likely be very agreeable for all parties. The licensing "nightmare" will continue to get weaker and weaker as companies see Smash as a gateway into Nintendo's audience. The parties with characters currently I can't imagine see it any differently even in another entry to the series. I feel like this is just a tired thought-ending-cliche that only serves to lower Nintendo's commitment to growing Smash properly.

One way to sell the game is just to make a more expensive game than usual in one package but I'd rather they go with the Pokemon double game release philosophy except actually make it worth a damn and fundamentally different unlike Gamefreak's abysmal "offerings" haha.

Two fullprice Smash Ultimate DX's get released at the same time kind of similar to how Wii U/3DS launched except this time they will share a release date. The primary one is mandatory and first-party focussed in character inclusions and content but will still have some third-party content with it as well. Maybe just the cutesy mascots like Sonic, Pacman, Megaman and Banjo. The second would be a third-party focussed "expansion pack" to the primary Ultimate DX and is completely optional. I'd imagine it'd be preferable to allow players that bought both to play with players that only bought the primary one because you don't want to split your playerbase. This would only mean that sometimes certain players (likely a minority) would get to use the third-party stages online even if they haven't bought the secondary "expansion pack" to the primary game. It's such a small concern that I can't imagine it being extremely difficult to negotiate but probably would take considerable legalese nonetheless.

IDK just offering a counterthought to the usual "Smash Ultimate DX is so difficult it's likely impossible" claim.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Then you say that Capt Falcon plays nothing like his base game - also true.

No, I was saying Ganondorf fights nothing like his base games.

I mean, yes, Falcon ALSO doesn't, but that can't be helped, cause he doesn't fight in F-Zero games.

But Ganondorf does tons of fighting in Zelda games, but his Smash moveset doesn't really reflect any of it.

But to say Ganondorf can’t be a clone of Capt Falcon because they come from different game series is essentially a fan rule.

I WISH. If it was a fan rule, that would at least mean it hadn't happened yet.

No. This was a bad decision made a long time ago due to development limitations, that should have been fixed in future games, but wasn't, because they're worried about some people's reaction to the loss of their "slow Falcon" moveset.

Actually, when you think about it, it isn't Ganondorf who's an important character so much as Ganon.

They're literally the same character. Like, even moreso than the Links are.

Black Shadow could take Ganondorfs old moveset I think if it came down to it.

100%.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If you take both characters and view their source material - Ganondorf fits (he even drops a warlock kick in OoT to collapse the floor in the final battle) and Capt Falcon is the one littered with question marks.

Having a handful of animations making slight references doesn't mean Ganondorf is accurate to how he is in Zelda games, especially when he has none of his most iconic stuff, be it the magic in his OoT fight, anything related to his Ganon form (barring the Final Smash and not counting the boss since it's not playable) or, to a lesser extent, the swordfighting skills we've seen in Twilight Princess or Wind Waker (which the smash attacks barely tap into, if at all).

 

[Geno Boost]

One thing I would hope we get is a few more bosses. I would love classic mode updated so that we are not always fighting the hands 80% of the time. Here are a few bosses I think would be cool picks.

• The Reaper (Persona)
• Ender Dragon (Minecraft)
• Darkside (Kingdom Hearts)
• Metal Gear REX
• Porky (Mother)
• Gruntilda
• Rayquaza

Upgrade the stage bosses while we are at it, and you can spice up a lot of classic modes very quickly with some of these picks.

I would say bring in Smithy (SMRPG) he is a shapeshifter it would be epic to fight him and it would awesome to see him in a game again.
I also think Petey Piranha should return

 

[Chuderz]

How little? How little of development time would it take to add this? So inconsequential yet so far away! Does Sakurai even know? Does he even consider this to be missing from the game? How small but tremendous of an addition to the game would this be? Has anybody ever thought to tell him?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jQUrMfoRx8

I like to imagine Harada knows but doesn't tell Sakurai out of a strong commitment to maintaining friendliness with a cherished colleague.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

Say that we did get an Ultimate Deluxe?

What new characters, stages (New or returning) and modes do you think we'd get?

Hopefully Break the Targets, Board the Platforms, and Boss Rush.

Fighters

• Octoling (Splatoon 3)
• Ring Fit Trainer (Ring Fit Adventure)
• Gen 8 Pokémon (Pokémon Sword/Shield)
• Akira Yuki (Virtua Fighter, Sega)
• Chosen Undead (Dark Souls, Bandai-Namco)
• Leon/Jill (Resident Evil, Capcom)
• Bandana Waddle Dee (Kirby, Nintendo) [Bonus DLC]

Stages

• Splatoon 3 based stage
• Zelda BOTW2 based stage
• Next Mario Kart/3D Mario based stage
• Wild Area (Pokémon Sword/Shield)
• Dragaux Stadium (Ring Fit Adventure)
• Haunted Hotel (Luigis Mansion 3)
• Flooded Forest (Monster Hunter Rise)
• Raccon City (Resident Evil, Capcom)
• Firelink Shrine (Dark Souls, Bandai-Namco)
• Virtua Fighter based stage

Modes:

• New WoL map with 4 bosses: Porky, Tabuu, Dr.Eggman and Magnamalo.
• WoL includes local and online co-op.
• Master Hand WoL is now added as a separete mode. Can choose any battlefield form stage.
• Stage buildes includes option to make Break the Targets or Board the Plattaforms stages. Share and play other creations online. Can set rules like time or use X character only.
• Online gets improved, other multiplayer modes can be played online.

Misc:

• New Assist Trophies: Infantry Tanks (Advance Wars), Barbara the Hat (Band Brothers), Kat & Ana (Wario Ware), Saki Akamiya (Sin & Punishment), Ray MKIII (Custom Robo), Arthur (Ghost N Goblins), Magnamalo (Monster Hunter), Among Us crew
• 4 new gen 8 Pokémon
• All previous fighters retain their movesets, a new 9th alt is introduced for everyone.
• +100 new spirits and +150 songs. Less than 20 new remixes.
  
  DLC: It would be planned another FP (with stage, music and spirit board) with 5 characters; Xenoblade 3 protagonist, Crash, Dante, Master Chief and next Fire Emblem protagonist. As extra DLC, Chun-Li gets added.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Fighters

• Octoling (Splatoon)
• Ring Fit Trainer (Ring Fit Adventure)
• Gen 8 Pokémon (Pokémon Sword/Shield)
• Akira Yuki (Virtua Fighter, Sega)
• Chosen Undead (Dark Souls, Bandai-Namco)
• Leon/Jill (Resident Evil, Capcom)
• Bandana Waddle Dee (Kirby, Nintendo) [Bonus DLC]

Stages

• Splatoon 3 based stage
• Zelda BOTW2 based stage
• Next Mario Kart/3D Mario based stage
• Wild Area (Pokémon Sword/Shield)
• Dragaux Stadium (Ring Fit Adventure)
• Haunted Hotel (Luigis Mansion 3)
• Flooded Forest (Monster Hunter Rise)
• Raccon City (Resident Evil, Capcom)
• Firelink Shrine (Dark Souls, Bandai-Namco)
• Virtua Fighter based stage

Modes:

• New WoL map with 4 bosses: Porky, Tabuu, Dr.Eggman and Magnamalo.
• WoL includes local and online co-op.
• Master Hand WoL is now added as a separete mode. Can choose any battlefield form stage.
• Stage buildes includes option to make Break the Targets or Board the Plattaforms stages. Share and play other creations online. Can set rules like time or use X character only.
• Online gets improved, other multiplayer modes can be played online.

Misc:

• New Assist Trophies: Infantry Tanks (Advance Wars), Barbara the Hat (Band Brothers), Kat & Ana (Wario Ware), Saki Akamiya (Sin & Punishment), Ray MKIII (Custom Robo), Arthur (Ghost N Goblins), Magnamalo (Monster Hunter), Among Us crew
• 4 new gen 8 Pokémon
• All previous fighters retain their movesets, a new 9th alt is introduced for everyone.

How would online WoL work tho?

 

[11th]

Hi, new thread. o/ I'm mostly a lurker who likes the Kirby series (& Bandana Waddle Dee) and has a tendency to write long posts.


I've been flip flopping on posting this or not, but I may as well since it's already typed out...
Extremely early, very likely to be wrong thoughts on the roster.

Spoiler

It really depends on what direction they go in for the next game and how long it takes to be released.
If they don't change up the gameplay too much and prioritize fighters over other elements, then I could see a starting roster of ~60-70 characters before newcomers. The team has had an aversion to completely removing a series from the roster, with the Ice Climbers being the only first/second-party instance in Smash for due to hardware limitations, and Snake due to rights issues. That said, I could see them trying to keep at least one character from each current series while trimming a bit of fat, with only a handful of third-parties really being at risk of being cut for other reasons.

If the gameplay changes a lot (though I don't think that is likely) or if they decide to put more focus on modes over fighters, then I still couldn't see the roster being much smaller than Brawl's at worst, or 40-50 fighters.

Rankings:

Spoiler

64 core - unlikely that any of these will ever be cut (yes, even Jigglypuff):
(12)
Hard locks - characters that are the mascot/protagonist for their series or are currently the only representative for their series:
(15)
Probably locks - other iconic characters:
() (18)
Possibly returning - unique movesets that I don't think the team would want to cut unless resources are really stretched:
(8)
Possible cuts - redundant movesets/designs, series inactivity, and/or resource sinks:
(or)(or)()() (2 out of 11+1)
Echoes - easy enough to bring back with minimal resources:
(4)

Notes

• Jigglypuff explanation: It is the only real "joke" character on the roster and the dev team seems to like it. If Brawl stretching its budget and going past its deadline didn't result in it getting the axe, then I can't see them willingly removing the character now. (Especially because Jiggs is fairly easy to built off of Kirby.)
• Min Min is the only one in the second group that I think has a small chance of being cut, but only if they wanted to swap in a different ARMS fighter.
• Doc could be lumped in with the Echoes despite not being labeled as one, but if the team wanted to focus on story the way they did in Brawl, then I could absolutely see him being cut again for redundancy in multiple senses. He and Z-Suit are the only duplicate characters on the roster now, but at least Z-Suit has a wholly different moveset. Unless they really wanted Doc specifically for something...
• Star Fox has been struggling for a while, and unless it gets another game that does okay, it risks losing a fighter again.
• Pokémon Trainer is a cool concept that unfortunately takes up the resources of three unique veterans. I'm not sure if the team would split them again if they had to make cuts.
• Sorry, Lucas. ): MOTHER does get a lot of love in Smash for its size, but the inactivity may hurt it, and he has already been cut once before.

Safe third-parties - are consistently on good terms with Nintendo:
() (7+1)
Volatile third-parties - could just as easily stay or go due to the rights owner backing out or wanting to switch in other things:
() (8+1)
High risk third-parties - Disney... need I say more? :
(1)

Notes

• Sonic and Bayonetta are so close to Nintendo that they would probably return even if none of the other third-parties did.
• If Cloud returns, it's possible that Sephiroth may not based on the first/second-party rankings above, but both could also be renegotiated at the same time.
• Joker is only listed as volatile in case the team or Atlus want to swap him out for a different (newer?) Persona/SMT character. Otherwise, he's probably safe.
• As Echoes, Richter and Ken would most likely return if their counterparts did.

It's possible that I'm overestimating how much work it would take to bring back each fighter and that all of the first/second-parties will be safe, but I'd rather overestimate than underestimate to cover things like the model updates for the entire roster that were done for Brawl and Smash for and/or veteran fighter reworks. It also depends a lot on how many resources are needed for other things -- all stages are also up-to-date with a handful of exceptions, but adventure stages or other modes could still take up a lot resources.