Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Noipoi]

TOMORROW!!!!

IN FIVE MINUTES

 

[fogbadge]

I mean, it's not really a competition when it comes to these two. Mario and/or its extended universes have gotten two or more characters every game, Waluigi being in doesn't explicitly discredit Toad or vice versa. You'd probably be better off just looking out for whatever Peach's Neutral B is to make that call.

our dreams have been crushed a fair bit. any reveal could knock 'em over

 

[dream1ng]

Here's my hypothesis for the next game's lifecycle.

Later in 2024: Next Nintendo system is revealed with year 1/launch titles. No Smash yet.
Sometime in 2025: A press release/statement comes out and says that the next title in the Super Smash Bros. series of games is being worked on.
Winter/Summer 2026 Direct: Super Smash Bros. 6 is officially unveiled, slated for either Holiday 2026 or early 2027. Rest of the year is dedicated to gradually unveiling base game content.
Late 2026: "Final" base game presentation for Smash, details plans for post-launch content.
After Smash 6's release: Post-launch content begins development, and new content continues to be rolled out for the game until around a year prior to the reveal of the next Nintendo system's own successor.

I think this all seems pretty plausible. Except I have to imagine if it releases early 2027 that would be mean it missed its target date and got delayed, either internally or publicly. The year that Smash comes out it's very unlikely Nintendo doesn't position it as a big holiday game.

But I also imagine being able to simply finish content after launch and release it later means a delay would only be in fairly dire circumstances, as hitting the holiday release would be very high priority.

That may have even been what happened with Ultimate, what with PP, the post-launch modes, and the fact that it released fairly late in the year for a big holiday title (December).

Also, this is just a small thing but I don't see them needing to prematurely confirm a new Smash is in development if their current games are coming out at a steady clip and the system is doing well. Which is my expectation for year one of the next thing, in any case.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Waluigi definitely feels like the last of the major first party crowd pleasers. Don't get me wrong, Dixie Kong, Toad, BWD, Impa, Octolings, Noah/Mio, and so forth would all be positively embraced. It's just that Waluigi stands out as the one that would go most viral given his status and history with Smash.

 

[dream1ng]

View attachment 391849

IN FIVE MINUTES

I trusted you

 

[Louie G.]

Ngl, I still think Pauline could go hard as a fighter if they play their cards really well.

Imagine her using her items from the DK arcade for the charged Smash attacks, the Minis for most of her specials and her singing skills similar to Jigglypuff.

Pauline could work, I just feel like she gets outclassed in most categories. As a Mario character there are far more popular or more prominent character choices, and as a musical character there are just like a half dozen better choices (Rhythm Heaven, Splatoon idols, KK Slider...)

There is one gameplay hook that I'd be interested in seeing her explore though, and that's if they decided to take a creative liberty and pair her with Cappy. She wears that flashy mayor's hat, so if they wanted to have someone represent Odyssey's mechanics without making Mario himself too centralized this might be an interesting compromise - alongside the music stuff, fighting with a mic stand, whatever. Perhaps a bit similar to Rosalina's role in Smash 4, although admittedly Pauline isn't as important to Odyssey as Rosalina is to Galaxy. Even though superficially, she is receiving a similar amount of prestige in recent Mario spinoffs.

Bottom line though, there are just a bunch more exciting characters I would pick over Pauline within any niche she could fill. I love that they gave her something to do in Odyssey, but I think adding her to Smash could feel a little forced personally. She's carried by just how good Jump Up Super Star was, if we're being real. She references it at every opportunity in the spinoffs too.

 

[RouffWestie]

So the question is who should be the first newcomer revealed?

Brawl started with a banger of Pit, Meta Knight, Zamus, Wario, and Snake getting revealed in the first trailer

Wii U/3DS started with Villager, Megaman, and Wii Fit Trainer

ultimate had all the veterans return along with Inklings being revealed for newcomers.

I’m thinking it has to be someone who is popular and heavily requested. But the question is who? Can others join after the first reveal, but the first one creates hype

End a Nintendo Direct with what seems to be a trailer for a new Rhythm Heaven
Make everything look like it's just straight gameplay of one of the "Remix" type stages, with the BGM being a goofy/light-hearted arrangement of the new Smash's theme, everyone will think it's just a new Rhythm Heaven song. Then when it gets to whoever the newcomer will be, linger for a bit before fading out the music and bring two veterans into frame fighting each other, and then transition into the actual Smash reveal + have the music change to the regular version of the new main theme.
And since the "not actual gameplay footage," will kill any surprise this could have, maybe start the trailer with something generic like a faux in-game intro animation.

 

[dream1ng]

Re: M-rated series

One thing to keep an eye on is this, that they're apparently teasing Scorpion coming to Multiversus.

For one, despite having very little hope for him when it comes to Smash, I hope this helps dispel the argument that for some reason he can't be toned down. Though he already has been before, so idk people will probably still come up with some mental gymnastics as to why this doesn't count.

But also, they do list the franchise of the character in Multiversus. Which is T. So let's see what they do if Scorpion does truly arrive.

 

[HyperSomari64]

End a Nintendo Direct with what seems to be a trailer for a new Rhythm Heaven
Make everything look like it's just straight gameplay of one of the "Remix" type stages, with the BGM being a goofy/light-hearted arrangement of the new Smash's theme, everyone will think it's just a new Rhythm Heaven song. Then when it gets to whoever the newcomer will be, linger for a bit before fading out the music and bring two veterans into frame fighting each other, and then transition into the actual Smash reveal + have the music change to the regular version of the new main theme.

I would accept it if the RH arrangement is in this Smash.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Pauline is in a weird spot because she feels like she's in a similar situation to Rosalina: Got a standout role, and is getting assimilated into the Mario Spinoff Roster Starter Kit(TM). That alone could get her in.

But then there's Waluigi, who's very firmly in that category and is massively demanded by at least the western audience.

And Geno, who's been a very popular request since Brawl, and it seems like the stars are aligning for him.

Aaand Toad, a series icon only one step down from the core four who still hasn't made it in yet.

Aaaaand picks like King Boo or Edge, who serve as off the wall picks that still make some sort of sense to keep people on their toes.

There's just so much competition I have no idea what they're gonna do. Even if we're getting more than one from the franchise I'd hesitate to call anyone a lock, or even say that their chances are high.

 

[AreJay25]

Re: M-rated series

One thing to keep an eye on is this, that they're apparently teasing Scorpion coming to Multiversus.

For one, despite having very little hope for him when it comes to Smash, I hope this helps dispel the argument that for some reason he can't be toned down. Though he already has been before, so idk people will probably still come up with some mental gymnastics as to why this doesn't count.

But also, they do list the franchise of the character in Multiversus. Which is T. So let's see what they do if Scorpion does truly arrive.

I don't know why people keep parroting this, it's never been an issue and it never will be. MK vs. DC exists, Injustice 1 exists. Hell, MK had a Saturday morning cartoon of all things. If Sakurai could figure out how to make Bayo work, then certainly he can do the same thing with the blueprint NRS themselves have already provided.

The problem is, well... y'know, Mortal Kombat not officially being sold in Japan.

 

[Will]

The problem is, well... y'know, Mortal Kombat not officially being sold in Japan.

That gives a misleading perception that not being officially sold also means not a single soul in Japan knows Mortal Kombat exists.

Mortal Kombat Deadly Alliance was on a Japanese game show where a blind American pro player played an exhibition match against contestants and won.

I agree with you I just really wanted an excuse to talk about the game show fact.

 

[Opossum]

Re: M-rated series

One thing to keep an eye on is this, that they're apparently teasing Scorpion coming to Multiversus.

For one, despite having very little hope for him when it comes to Smash, I hope this helps dispel the argument that for some reason he can't be toned down. Though he already has been before, so idk people will probably still come up with some mental gymnastics as to why this doesn't count.

But also, they do list the franchise of the character in Multiversus. Which is T. So let's see what they do if Scorpion does truly arrive.

I mean...Scorpion wouldn't even be the worst thing Multiversus has referenced explicitly. Arya literally has a mechanic where she spawns a pie when defeating an enemy, which is based on a scene in Game of Thrones where she kills the two sons of House Frey and feeds their father a pie made from their remains without telling him until it was too late, right before killing him.

And then there's the fact that Jason Vorhees is on the roster at all.

I absolutely agree Scorpion could hypothetically be toned down for Smash, but I also don't think that Multiversus not taking issue with him being added is necessarily a point in his favor any more so than other additions to that game are.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Mortal Kombat Deadly Alliance was on a Japanese game show where a blind American pro player played an exhibition match against contestants and won.

Is thiat real?
Can you post footage from that game show?

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Pauline is in a weird spot because she feels like she's in a similar situation to Rosalina: Got a standout role, and is getting assimilated into the Mario Spinoff Roster Starter Kit(TM). That alone could get her in.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. That alone will do nothing. Pauline would have to jump up out at Sakurai as a potential fighter concept. She has to "dance" in his mind as he's expressed before.

Using Rosalina for an example, what did she have prior to being picked, which would have been by April 26, 2012?
Just the Galaxies and two Mario Karts.
Before she would have a playable platformer role in 3D World and before she would be a true mainstay in spinoffs.

And she was picked for her potential fighting style as a "Puppet Fighter" with Luma.


Conversely, Daisy had dozens upon dozens of spinoff appearances and only got in Ultimate.....as just a 1:1 copy of Peach because Echoes were a thing.


Pauline could have all the spinoff roles singing Jump Up, Super Star in the world, and that won't really benefit her if she does not give any inspiration to the man in charge on first glance.

 

[RodNutTakin]

My gut says Waluigi would be the second newcomer revealed for the new game. Smash has historically left the "headliner" character last when a new game is shown off for the first time--Snake was the last character shown for Brawl's first trailer, Mega Man was the last character shown during Smash 4's initial reveal (I'm not counting Wii Fit Trainer since that explicitly happened a little while after the Digital Event that year), and Ridley was the last character shown when Ultimate got formally revealed. For the first character shown off, I'd put money on it being a more "expected" choice like Officer Howard, a Xenoblade 3 character, a new Zelda fighter, something like that.

 

[AreJay25]

That gives a misleading perception that not being officially sold also means not a single soul in Japan knows Mortal Kombat exists.

Mortal Kombat Deadly Alliance was on a Japanese game show where a blind American pro player played an exhibition match against contestants and won.

I agree with you I just really wanted an excuse to talk about the game show fact.

Actually you just reminded me that Multiverus now has Japanese servers.

So... I don't know how many people are playing the game over there, but hey, in the event that Scorpion gets in, it's something.

 

[CardiganBoy]

I haven't posted in years... anyways I hope Samus gets both her Dread and Beyond designs for the hypothetical new Smash game, she's in need of an update. Just like Link there's no reason for her not to get the latest design from the 2D games which is a more modernized look and the newest design from the 3D games which is the iconic Varia Suit. Perfect Balance.

Both already have similar proportions when compared to the very wide shoulders of older games, just make it half-half like Link, Cloud, Ike, etc.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I mean...Scorpion wouldn't even be the worst thing Multiversus has referenced explicitly. Arya literally has a mechanic where she spawns a pie when defeating an enemy, which is based on a scene in Game of Thrones where she kills the two sons of House Frey and feeds their father a pie made from their remains without telling him until it was too late, right before killing him.

And then there's the fact that Jason Vorhees is on the roster at all.

I absolutely agree Scorpion could hypothetically be toned down for Smash, but I also don't think that Multiversus not taking issue with him being added is necessarily a point in his favor any more so than other additions to that game are.

It's also worth noting that just because something is peachy keen in one game doesn't mean it's just as acceptable in another.

Different companies with different mindsets and all.



....to be 100% clear I'm not using this as something against Scorpion, just that just because Warner Bros. has no issue with featuring Scorpion in their own platform fighter game and hypothetically toned down doesn't exactly mean Nintendo/Sakurai are just as willing to do so.

 

[dream1ng]

I mean...Scorpion wouldn't even be the worst thing Multiversus has referenced explicitly. Arya literally has a mechanic where she spawns a pie when defeating an enemy, which is based on a scene in Game of Thrones where she kills the two sons of House Frey and feeds their father a pie made from their remains without telling him until it was too late, right before killing him.

And then there's the fact that Jason Vorhees is on the roster at all.

I absolutely agree Scorpion could hypothetically be toned down for Smash, but I also don't think that Multiversus not taking issue with him being added is necessarily a point in his favor any more so than other additions to that game are.

I know Multiversus has content from very not child-friendly IP, but given neither of those series originate from video games, the cross-medium brand reference seems like it wouldn't affect how the ESRB rated it if it wasn't actually explicitly present in the game. Or at least it would be a weird grey area.

I'm just speculating, given... well we really haven't been informed of how any of this actually works, but I think an actual game series like MK would provide the most useful precedent outside of Smash itself.

And I'm not saying this helps Scorpion for Smash. Scorpion isn't getting into Smash; he basically doesn't exist in Japan. And even before this it was obvious he could be toned down. This is just another example. It's more to see how a current game handles the branding of a higher-rated gaming property.

 

[Pupp135]

So do you guys feel the roster is going to be slightly smaller than Ultimate, slightly bigger, or modified to a Wii U/3DS number?

At the moment, I’d assume something close to SSBFor’s post DLC roster, so high 50s/low 60s. At worst, it would be in the 40s, but that would only be if drastic really changes are occurring.

Okay, let's play a roster game: I'm gonna take the first playable reps of each series and sort them into a table:

Mario​	Donkey Kong​	Link​	Samus​	Yoshi​	Kirby​	Fox​	Pikachu​
Ness​	Captain Falcon​	Ice Climbers​	Marth​	Mr. Game & Watch​	Pit​	Wario​	Olimar​
R.O.B.​	Villager​	Wii Fit Trainer​	Little Mac​	Shulk​	Duck Hunt​	Inkling​	Min Min​
Snake​	Sonic​	Mega Man​	PAC-MAN​	Ryu​	Cloud​	Bayonetta​	Simon​
Joker​	Hero​	Banjo & Kazooie​	Terry​	Steve​	Kazuya​	Sora​	Mii​

Let's try building a roster for the next game around this table.

If I follow my best case roster size above (let’s say 62 fighters), I’ll add 10 veterans and 10 newcomers. This isn’t ideal, but I feel like the three Mario characters, Zelda, and Isabelle are nonnegotiable, I like Pokemon Trainer’s gimmick, and Diddy and Dedede help expand upon other popular franchises.


Waluigi and Bandana Waddle Dee are the most requested Nintendo fighters. Tom and Octavio help flesh out Animal Crossing and Splatoon. Ashley and Lyn have some requests. Tinkaton and Ring Fit help provide fresher faces. Ganon is not ideal, but he does help make the best of my limitations. Rayman has had nonplayable content in base For and Ultimate, so that’s why he’s here.
(Waluigi), (Ashley), (Ganon), (Lyn), (Bandana Waddle Dee), (Tinkaton), (Tom Nook), (DJ Octavio), (Ring Fit Trainee), (Rayman)

So the question is who should be the first newcomer revealed?

I don’t want to use the word “should”, but I could see another Animal Crossing or Splatoon fighter taking the first newcomer reveal next game given their popularity where Animal Crossing has Tom Nook and K.K. Slider as options while Splatoon has Octoling, DJ Octavio, or one of the pop Idol duos. A larger request like Waluigi or Bandana Waddle Dee may be saved for a little bit later in the reveal like with Wario, Mega Man, or Ridley.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. That alone will do nothing. Pauline would have to jump up out at Sakurai as a potential fighter concept. She has to "dance" in his mind as he's expressed before.

Using Rosalina for an example, what did she have prior to being picked, which would have been by April 26, 2012?
Just the Galaxies and two Mario Karts.
Before she would have a playable platformer role in 3D World and before she would be a true mainstay in spinoffs.

And she was picked for her potential fighting style as a "Puppet Fighter" with Luma.


Conversely, Daisy had dozens upon dozens of spinoff appearances and only got in Ultimate.....as just a 1:1 copy of Peach because Echoes were a thing.


Pauline could have all the spinoff roles singing Jump Up, Super Star in the world, and that won't really benefit her if she does not give any inspiration to the man in charge on first glance.

I mean, maybe? But it does make her a serious contender, and has nothing to do with her actual problem of just...there's too many characters.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I mean, maybe? But it does make her a serious contender, and has nothing to do with her actual problem of just...there's too many characters.

Except, no, it really doesn't. :/

She isn't a serious contender just because she makes a number of spinoff appearances. It literally hasn't helped anyone.

 

[smashkirby]

Hey, all. Not too sure where else to ask this, so I guess it'll be here.

I'm about done with the Subspace Emissary, and I'm at 96% completion. Does that mean I've collected all of the orange cubes found within the Great Maze (and the remaining percentage simply pertains to Sonic, Toon Link, Jigglypuff, and Wolf O'Donnell)?

For the record, I've just finished taking down every Subspace clone Tabuu tried to throw at me AND taken down every boss he revived for the final battle, so the cubes are pretty much my main concern at this point.

Honestly... not to step on anyone's toes, but I never understood why so many have such a hang-up over the Great Maze. It certainly wasn't as big of a chore as I remember. Heck, I actually had some fun traversing it, fighting all those enemies.

Meh. Different strokes, I guess.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I've love to see how Scorpion would be portrayed in a platform fighting game.

I don't know why people keep parroting this, it's never been an issue and it never will be. MK vs. DC exists, Injustice 1 exists. Hell, MK had a Saturday morning cartoon of all things. If Sakurai could figure out how to make Bayo work, then certainly he can do the same thing with the blueprint NRS themselves have already provided.

The problem is, well... y'know, Mortal Kombat not officially being sold in Japan.

Just weak excuses. Either that, or they really have no idea what they're talking about and just tend to miss those details.

The very few appearances in Japan might the only real problem but even then, we don't know for sure.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Except, no, it really doesn't. :/

She isn't a serious contender just because she makes a number of spinoff appearances. It literally hasn't helped anyone.

Then she's not a serious contender.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I only found one aspect of SSE annoying; the higher gravity to every character, which made many barely usable at all during some areas. Otherwise, it was pretty fun. Sure, I'd like more non-OC enemies, but that didn't outright bother me.

 

[Louie G.]

So the question is who should be the first newcomer revealed?

This is a really tough question that I don’t have a consistent answer for yet. I guess I generally agree with the sentiments of a Mario character, or an Animal Crossing character or something with mass appeal across all demographics. And also maybe one who wouldn’t have the most bombastic solo trailer reveal. Tom Nook or Toad are good options… although Nook might feel like doing the Smash 4 trailer a second time.

I’m also inclined to agree that Waluigi is a lock for “but wait there’s more” if he’s in. And at the very least, you need all three of the plumber boys to be there. So it depends how they choose to show off characters and in what order, etc. Waluigi is one reveal that hinges heavily on when those other characters pop up (could very well just be in his trailer).

Ring Fit is the next super obvious “may as well get it out of the way” pick, so it could just be them. Although on the other hand, I don’t think they’re equivalent to Animal Crossing or Splatoon. It’s still a bit out there, and maybe not a series people feel THAT strongly about yet.

Honestly, the best option might just be doing a Brawl-esque multi-reveal trailer again. Not only would be a lot of fun, but it would make it clear to everyone that Smash is back to its old tricks and will be giving us a bigger crop of newcomers than last time around.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Then she's not a serious contender.

Precisely my point.

But who knows? Sakurai could reflect back on her being a legacy character from the original Donkey Kong title that has major significance to Nintendo's history as a company and that's how she gets in. Kind of late to do so imo, but I suppose it could be that the iron might be hotter for that now that she's a more common figure in the modern era.

 

[CannonStreak]

You know, considering how we talked about Scorpion from Mortal Kombat not being in Smash Bros., to me, I find it kinda odd that is the case sense Scorpion is a ninja, and ninjas are mainly from Japan. Now, I said kinda because he is not THE ninja, or probably not a ninja that works with Japanese standards, especially considering Mortal Kombat was made in the west and all, so any Japanese ninja history that game has would probably not be accurate to what Japan has, standards or history wise.

Still, all that and I still find it odd since Scorpion is a ninja, or is he?

 

[SPEN18]

Hey, all. Not too sure where else to ask this, so I guess it'll be here.

I'm about done with the Subspace Emissary, and I'm at 96% completion. Does that mean I've collected all of the orange cubes found within the Great Maze (and the remaining percentage simply pertains to Sonic, Toon Link, Jigglypuff, and Wolf O'Donnell)?

For the record, I've just finished taking down every Subspace clone Tabuu tried to throw at me AND taken down every boss he revived for the final battle, so the cubes are pretty much my main concern at this point.

Honestly... not to step on anyone's toes, but I never understood why so many have such a hang-up over the Great Maze. It certainly wasn't as big of a chore as I remember. Heck, I actually had some fun traversing it, fighting all those enemies.

Meh. Different strokes, I guess.

It's been a looong time, but I 100%'d SSE before. On the level select screen there should be a crown-type symbol indicating the level is 100%'d, instead of just a flag. 100% here means including orange cubes, yeah. For the Great Maze, which has multiple entry points on the level select screen, you should have that crown symbol over all entry points.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Precisely my point.

But who knows? Sakurai could reflect back on her being a legacy character from the original Donkey Kong title that has major significance to Nintendo's history as a company and that's how she gets in. Kind of late to do so imo, but I suppose it could be that the iron might be hotter for that now that she's a more common figure in the modern era.

So...her recent appearances do nothing for her and won't even put her into consideration, except they might put her into consideration? It doesn't work both ways. Her recent appearances make her a serious contender because they get her foot in the door. True, Sakurai has to find something in her that offers something strong enough to add over other ideas, and she's probably not more likely than Toad and the fan picks, but her chances aren't 0 just because her appearances aren't major enough.

 

[CannonStreak]

You know, this talk of spin off characters apparently not yet making it into a Smash Bros. game as playables, I still think that is a fan made rule, one that can be broken, and while I could be wrong, I think that fan rule could be broken next Smash Bros. game. It hasn't happened yet of course, but who knows?

I would like to see Geno, who is a spinoff character, be added as a playable, but I would actually like to see another spinoff character like Waluigi be first to break that rule before Geno.

Anyhow, didn't Pauline debut in a mainline game, one for Donkey Kong and Mario? And in a mainline Mario game that is Super Mario Odyssey? I think she is more relevant than some may think.

 

[Wonder Smash]

You know, considering how we talked about Scorpion from Mortal Kombat not being in Smash Bros., to me, I find it kinda odd that is the case sense Scorpion is a ninja, and ninjas are mainly from Japan. Now, I said kinda because he is not THE ninja, or probably not a ninja that works with Japanese standards, especially considering Mortal Kombat was made in the west and all, so any Japanese ninja history that game has would probably not be accurate to what Japan has, standards or history wise.

Still, all that and I still find it odd since Scorpion is a ninja, or is he?

He's definitely a ninja.

 

[Louie G.]

I think Pauline's chances are okay, but are not fantastic either. Golden is right to say that Sakurai needs Pauline to "dance" in his mind. For all we know, he may have already cracked the code on her. But Golden is also right to say that she's no Rosalina, which is a sentiment I've been trying to express as well. Rosalina's role in Galaxy is very unorthodox for the series... it's rare for a supporting character to be that prominent and that deeply fleshed out. She isn't the kind of character you see in a Mario game very often - it makes sense that she caught Sakurai's eye. Let alone for her unique gameplay hook.

Although the fact that we can come up with various avenues for Pauline moveset wise - singing, representing the original DK, working as an Odyssey Mario expy - means Sakurai could easily come upon the same ideas, and they may excite him. Anything we've thought of I imagine he must have thought of ten times over. And Pauline has at least existed for a whopping 40+ years now, so it's not as if she's a new face on the scene... she's just had something of a character rebirth.

So I can see the reasons why someone would take Pauline as a serious contender right now, although it probably shouldn't be simply because she's in Mario Kart and Mario Strikers. Rather both of those things happened because of her newfound popularity and breakout role in the last mainline Mario game.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You know, this talk of spin off characters apparently not yet making it into a Smash Bros. game as playables, I still think that is a fan made rule, one that can be broken, and while I could be wrong, I think that fan rule could be broken next Smash Bros. game. It hasn't happened yet of course, but who knows?

I would like to see Geno, who is a spinoff character, be added as a playable, but I would actually like to see another spinoff character like Waluigi be first to break that rule before Geno.

Anyhow, didn't Pauline debut in a mainline game, one for Donkey Kong and Mario? And in a mainline Mario game that is Super Mario Odyssey? I think she is more relevant than some may think.

The argument is less that spin-off characters won't be added (Daisy first appeared in a mainline title too), it's that characters that pretty much only appear in the spin-offs tend not to get chosen due to not being as relevant as those with more consistent mainline appearances. It's why people didn't think Daisy was likely, and it's why people didn't think Waluigi was likely.

And more than that, I think the main concern (at least, at the time) was that they didn't have a solid hook. The moveset suggestions for both characters were just "I dunno, sports!", which is a tad weak. I think that's likely because while they mainly appear in the sports games, it's not really what the characters are about, and Peach already pulls from those games anyway.

 

[CannonStreak]

He's definitely a ninja.

Okay, just making sure.

I think another thing I think that makes him not a ninja by Japanese standards, if you know what I mean, is the fact he uses Hellfire. Now, I am not well versed in Japanese history and culture, but I do not think Hellfire originated in or was a thing in Japan. I mean, there could be a Japanese equivalent to Hellfire, and Hellfire may not be a western exclusive concept, but it did mainly originate in the west if I recall correctly. I mean, have there been many ninjas in Japan who used hellfire? Feel free to correct me on everything I said.

The argument is less that spin-off characters aren't added (Daisy first appeared in a mainline title too), it's that characters that pretty much only appear in the spin-offs tend not to get chosen. It's why people didn't think Daisy was likely, and it's why people didn't think Waluigi was likely.

And more than that, I think the main concern (at least, at the time) was that they didn't have a solid hook. The moveset suggestions for both characters were just "I dunno, sports!", which is a tad weak. I think that's likely because while they mainly appear in the sports games, it's not really what the characters are about, and Peach already pulls from those games anyway.

Ah, I see. Thanks for correcting me.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Okay, just making sure.

I think another thing I think that makes him not a ninja by Japanese standards, if you know what I mean, is the fact he uses Hellfire. Now, I am not well versed in Japanese history and culture, but I do not think Hellfire originated in or was a thing in Japan. I mean, there could be a Japanese equivalent to Hellfire, and Hellfire may not be a western exclusive concept, but it did mainly originate in the west if I recall correctly. I mean, have there been many ninjas in Japan who used hellfire? Feel free to correct me on everything I said.

Well, demon flames are very much a thing in Japanese media, but hellfire specifically is a very western, very Christian concept. That being said, I highly doubt whether or not he's a ninja is the issue here. The main issue is that Mortal Kombat just doesn't really appeal to Japan, since it's appeal so rooted in American B movie films. IIRC, the first few games did so poorly they just stopped trying to enter the market.

 

[CannonStreak]

Well, demon flames are very much a thing in Japanese media, but hellfire specifically is a very western, very Christian concept. That being said, I highly doubt whether or not he's a ninja is the issue here. The main issue is that Mortal Kombat just doesn't really appeal to Japan, since it's appeal so rooted in American B movie films. IIRC, the first few games did so poorly they just stopped trying to enter the market.

Yeah, except I wasn't saying that was an issue. I might have been saying it like it was a side issue, but one with least importance.

With the kind of game it is, being western based, it is bound to have things that aren't liked or appreciated in Japanese culture. You know the excessive gore? The thing coming from Fatailties and all? I heard Japan is not anywhere close to being big on that kind of stuff, so there is that one thing, I assume.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Yeah, except I wasn't saying that was an issue. I might have been saying it like it was a side issue, but one with least importance.

With the kind of game it is, being western based, it is bound to have things that aren't liked or appreciated in Japanese culture. You know the excessive gore? The thing coming from Fatailties and all? I heard Japan is not anywhere close to being big on that kind of stuff, so there is that one thing, I assume.

I dunno if it's necessarily the gore, Japan's media can get really disturbing too. I might be conflating body horror with gore with that statement, and it might be colored by my viewing of Blood C (don't watch it. It's terrible), so it's not the most reliable observation, but I feel it's less that Fatalities are a turn off, and more just...that it's pretty much the only thing the series offers, at least as a selling point.