Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Shroob]

You would need to have released Warcraft 4 + expansions before a WOW2 absolutely. That's your opportunity to introduce new lore.

You'd also need to transition WOW1's expansions into a place where Warcraft 4 can get started as seamlessly as possible.

I think it needs a sequel to improve the overall engine. More trees, more enemies, more buildings, more NPCs, a dynamic camera, fresh start to balancing, better graphics, a bigger more fully realized world, real-time action-oriented combat, a rework of existing structures in-game like the Alchemist and Engineer professions being scrapped to make way for Witch Doctors and Tinkerer class (in Tinkerer's case I'd prefer it just be called Engineer) and basically just a fresh start for everyone. That fresh start into new world would be the closet thing you could ever get to recapturing WOW's former glory in the current era. Not to mention if a hypothetical WOW2 of this nature was tied to GamePass then I truly believe that THAT is a subscription seller. THAT will get people interested in GamePass.

I also don't see expansions in the case of MMOs as sequels. More like enhanced-super-patches.

I largely agree with you about the beauty of MMOs being that you can keep supporting them for a long time but where I disagree is the timeline being forever. 20 years is more than enough. Like I said the newer generations are not going to care about a game inherently stuck in 2004 in the current gaming climate and the old players are leaving anyways.

You want WOW (not you specifically btw) to return to its former glory? Stop appealing to aging players that are living in the past. Present the new generation with an equally as new generation of Azeroth in all her splendor and more fully realized than ever before and they will come. I bet you that the older players wouldn't be able to help themselves from checking it out as well.

Also would just like to say that Microsoft is currently about pushing for the power of their machines and making their machine kind of like the standard "easy" alternative to just building a PC. Well a huge part of WOW1's initial appeal was that it could be played on almost any PC. A long as WOW2 could be played in some way on Microsoft's machines then that's kind of reboot if you will of this old selling point and it's one that's directly in the interest of Microsoft moving consoles. Just something I thought of now.

I just wanna say that in the bolded part here in that, that's a weird as hell take to have.


Because from being around active WoW communities, it's the aging players that don't like retail and choose to play on Classic for that very reason. If anything, Retail WoW is doing exactly what you're saying, it's NOT appealing to the aging players living in the past, it's pushing forward.


But the thing is, the numbers don't lie. Classic is, for all intents, the most popular version of WoW nowadays, where retail is floundering, and retail has made strives to modernize itself.


But the people playing WoW, for the most part, don't like the changes. They don't like the Borrowed Power systems set in place since Legion, they don't like the Garrison-like features started in WoD, they don't like where the story's gone(And tbh, I 100% agree with this one, BFA and SL have been terrible).

 

[Chuderz]

I just wanna say that in the bolded part here in that, that's a weird as hell take to have.


Because from being around active WoW communities, it's the aging players that don't like retail and choose to play on Classic for that very reason. If anything, Retail WoW is doing exactly what you're saying, it's NOT appealing to the aging players living in the past, it's pushing forward.


But the thing is, the numbers don't lie. Classic is, for all intents, the most popular version of WoW nowadays, where retail is floundering, and retail has made strives to modernize itself.


But the people playing WoW, for the most part, don't like the changes. They don't like the Borrowed Power systems set in place since Legion, they don't like the Garrison-like features started in WoD, they don't like where the story's gone(And tbh, I 100% agree with this one, BFA and SL have been terrible).

Oh well I thought you were implying Classic was failing. I still hold my opinion that it's not the answer. I legitimately had no idea it's doing well because I think it's stupid. WOWbeing tied to one strictly confined era and it being really hard to level and get certain gear was not the appeal of WOW and anybody that thinks that is ridiculous. It was chatting with your friends, wasting time PVPing, getting bored of traditional PVP and ganking enemy faction players, traveling to parts of the world you weren't supposed to be in and maybe occasionally reading the stupid script to get more immersed in what you were doing. Voice acting for everything would be a potential HUGE benefit to a rehaul of the game. Also maybe potentially give players a legitimate choice like Star Wars The Old Republic gave their players?

I mean there have just been so many improvements scattered around the genre that a WOW2 could do exactly what a WOW1 did and that's take everything other MMOs did well and put it all together into one mainstream-friendly package.

EDIT: Also retail is always going to fail to modernize itself. It's tied to 2004. There's no escaping it. It's always going to have inherent limits no matter how much they dig into its guts and re-arrange things. I think retail's failure at being able to modernize itself with its inherent limitations is in no way akin to the potential a WOW2 would have.

 

[Shroob]

Oh well I thought you were implying Classic was failing. I still hold my opinion that it's not the answer. I legitimately had no idea it's doing well because I think it's stupid. WOWbeing tied to one strictly confined era and it being really hard to level and get certain gear was not the appeal of WOW and anybody that thinks that is ridiculous. It was chatting with your friends, wasting time PVPing, getting bored of traditional PVP and ganking enemy faction players, traveling to parts of the world you weren't supposed to be in and maybe occasionally reading the stupid script to get more immersed in what you were doing. Voice acting for everything would be a potential HUGE benefit to a rehaul of the game. Also maybe potentially give players a legitimate choice like Star Wars The Old Republic gave their players?

I mean there have just been so many improvements scattered around the genre that a WOW2 could do exactly what a WOW1 did and that's take everything other MMOs did well and put it all together into one mainstream-friendly package.

"Well" is an understatement. Although they'll never say it outright after WoD caused that massive sub loss, they pretty much more or less heavily implied that Classic overtook Retail's subscriber count by, well, a lot.



Also, I'm confused, because, those reasons that you listed as to why people like WoW, are literally the reasons people say they love Classic.


As someone who bounces between retail and classic content channels, the sense of "Community" like you described is hands down a thousand times greater in Classic WoW than it's been in retail for years.


Like, while I'm not a WoW player, at all, I did try it once with the free trial back during Warlords, and the thing that made me quit? Is that my very first dungeon, I clicked the Dungeon Finder, got paired up with 4 other people, and because they were decked out in head to toe heirloom gear, they blitzed through the dungeon and I sat in the start the entire time because I wasn't needed, no one talked, no one said anything, it was just morbidly quiet as bosses died in one hit. Likewise, there's no Dungeon Finder or Heirlooms in classic, so people need to group together physically and actually chat.



I think you're a bit lost in what you're talking about, because that sense of wonder... really doesn't exist in retail anymore, but in Classic? Yeah, you literally described Classic while ****ting on it at the same time.

 

[Chuderz]

"Well" is an understatement. Although they'll never say it outright after WoD caused that massive sub loss, they pretty much more or less heavily implied that Classic overtook Retail's subscriber count by, well, a lot.



Also, I'm confused, because, those reasons that you listed as to why people like WoW, are literally the reasons people say they love Classic.


As someone who bounces between retail and classic content channels, the sense of "Community" like you described is hands down a thousand times greater in Classic WoW than it's been in retail for years.


Like, while I'm not a WoW player, at all, I did try it once with the free trial back during Warlords, and the thing that made me quit? Is that my very first dungeon, I clicked the Dungeon Finder, got paired up with 4 other people, and because they were decked out in head to toe heirloom gear, they blitzed through the dungeon and I sat in the start the entire time because I wasn't needed, no one talked, no one said anything, it was just morbidly quiet as bosses died in one hit. Likewise, there's no Dungeon Finder or Heirlooms in classic, so people need to group together physically and actually chat.



I think you're a bit lost in what you're talking about, because that sense of wonder... really doesn't exist in retail anymore, but in Classic? Yeah, you literally described Classic while ****ting on it at the same time.

Then I literally hate that what they adore so much about classic and think those types of players are ridiculous. Those players are the ones ruining the game then. You want to do Naxx forever and ever and ever? Okay but that's ****ing stupid. Even with a sense of community I'd be so ****ing bored being confined to that era or any single one era of WOW for that matter. At that point it doesn't even feel like an RPG to me anymore. The world isn't dynamic and changing. It's just static bull**** hardcore gamer chores. What a ****ing waste of Azeroth and its characters for such a meaningless dead-end all so those older players can play pretend that their nostalgia is still real.

I'm not lost in what I'm talking about because I didn't bother to check in on Classic and how it was doing. Its success is a cancer on the IP. You can't stagnate an MMORPG like that. It's not fun and I absolutely do not agree with you. There is no wonder in Classic. It's just nostalgia-bait masquerading as a meaningful gaming experience.

I also would like to say I don't think implying retail WOW is the only possible method of the game embracing modernity is fair at all. Heirloom gear is a consequence of the game lasting so long. Why would you need it in a WOW2 where everything would start fresh again? It'd only become an issue later on down the line and you wouldn't necessarily have to even implement heirloom gear or XP boosts in general if the player-base actively didn't want it.

I'm fine with a WOW2 being hard and gear being difficult to get but not at the cost of the game being statically confined to the same content over and over again and especially the platform for doing such menial tasks being a 20-year-old product at this point. No way that's just boring and beyond stupid.

I'm fine with ****ting on Classic WOW. The player base is hurting the game by holding it back like that.

 

[Shroob]

Then I literally hate that what they adore so much about classic and think those types of players are ridiculous. Those players are the ones ruining the game then. You want to do Naxx forever and ever and ever? Okay but that's ing stupid. Even with a sense of community I'd be so ****ing bored being confined to that era or any single one era of WOW for that matter. At that point it doesn't even feel like an RPG to me anymore. The world isn't dynamic and changing. It's just static bull hardcore gamer chores. What a ****ing waste of Azeroth and its characters for such a meaningless dead-end all so those older players can play pretend that their nostalgia is still real.

I'm not lost in what I'm talking about because I didn't bother to check in on Classic and how it was doing. Its success is a cancer on the IP. You can stagnate an MMORPG like that. It's not fun and I absolutely do not agree with you. There is no wonder in Classic. It's just nostalgia-bait masquerading as a meaningful gaming experience.

I also would like to say I don't think implying retail WOW is the only possible method of the game embracing modernity is fair at all. Heirloom gear is a consequence of the game lasting so long. Why would you need it in a WOW2 where everything would start fresh again? It'd only become an issue later on down the line and you wouldn't necessarily have to even implement heirloom gear or XP boosts in general if the player-base actively didn't want it.

I'm fine with a WOW2 being hard and gear being difficult to get but not at the cost of the game being statically confined to the same content over and over again and especially the platform for doing such menial tasks being a 20-year-old product at this point. No way that's just boring and beyond stupid.

I'm fine with ****ting on Classic WOW. The player base is hurting the game by holding it back like that.

And yet in your last post you were praising people who liked that kinda stuff.


And again, the numbers don't lie. While there's no official numbers given because again, the WoD sub dropoff, some sites report Classic having anywhere of about 25 million players, while Retail probably has like, 1/3rd of that. Blizzard did say in 2020 that Classic existing "Doubled" WoW's total subscriber count, and that was in 2020.



What this tells me is that the playerbase isn't happy with where WoW is, and they haven't been for a long, long while. It's no one's fault but Blizzard here to be brutally honest. Ever since Cataclysm, they've been making the game less and less focused on, ya know, actually interacting with people and focusing more on solo-content where "You are the chosen one!". When you buy into an MMORPG, you expect it to be an MMORPG, not an RPG where you maybe group with people once in a blue moon.



And you are lost. If you had done some research, you'd know that Classic's also incorporating TBC and WotLK, where you can either choose to progress your character, OR stay in Classic, where Classic itself(So pre-TBC servers) are then updated every 6 months with tweaks to make the existing content different to stop it from being stale.

 

[Chuderz]

And yet in your last post you were praising people who liked that kinda stuff.


And again, the numbers don't lie. While there's no official numbers given because again, the WoD sub dropoff, some sites report Classic having anywhere of about 25 million players, while Retail probably has like, 1/3rd of that. Blizzard did say in 2020 that Classic existing "Doubled" WoW's total subscriber count, and that was in 2020.



What this tells me is that the playerbase isn't happy with where WoW is, and they haven't been for a long, long while. It's no one's fault but Blizzard here to be brutally honest. Ever since Cataclysm, they've been making the game less and less focused on, ya know, actually interacting with people and focusing more on solo-content where "You are the chosen one!". When you buy into an MMORPG, you expect it to be an MMORPG, not an RPG where you maybe group with people once in a blue moon.



And you are lost. If you had done some research, you'd know that Classic's also incorporating TBC and WotLK, where you can either choose to progress your character, OR stay in Classic, where Classic itself(So pre-TBC servers) are then updated every 6 months with tweaks to make the existing content different to stop it from being stale.

I legitimately don't understand you now? You say I'm ****ting on Classic and I am but now you're saying I'm praising them? No I'm not praising them. I'm saying that even with a sense of community a static game is a disservice to the world of Azeroth. Not even sense of community is enough to salvage it. Classic WOW having a sense of community centered around 20-year-old content is actually a bad thing. It means more people are literally stuck in the past and won't let the series progress.

There's literally nowhere to go with that static content. I had no idea you could confine yourself to BC and WotLK now. Great let's "progress" my character by stagnating the game into another completely confined era of rehashed content. What a blast.

You do realize the inherent difference between "progressing" by doing rehashed content, progressing by patching in an expansion on top of a 20-year-old product and progressing by making a completely new game started from scratch right? I'm kind of sick of this confused conversation comparing completely different concepts or implying they're in any way similar to each other. They're not. It seems like you're the lost one.

I'm simply an advocate for WOW2 because I see far more merit in it than the current trajectory of rehashing WOW1 forever and ever.

 

[Shroob]

I legitimately don't understand you now? You say I'm ****ting on Classic and I am but now you're saying I'm praising them? No I'm not praising them and it seems like you're taking my criticism personally at this point.

You were praising people that liked to do things like grow as a community and **** around. Now you're demonizing them because it's around old content. As for personal, I don't even play WoW, I have no horse in this race, I'm just pointing out your sudden heelturn when you realized that the reason people liked Classic wasn't just because "Hard game good."

I'm saying that even with a sense of community a static game is a disservice to the world of Azeroth. Not even sense of community is enough to salvage it.WOW having a sense community centered around 20 year old content is actually a bad thing. It means more people are literally stuck in the past and won't let the series progress.

A disservice to Azeroth is the various retcons and character assassinations the cast of characters go through whenever the writing team at Blizzard decides to toss a dart at the board to decide what happens next. "Oh Sylvanas is cool and badass! Oh, now she's a warmonger! Now she's Garosh 2.0! Oh, now she's actually not evil and was just confused...."

Battle for Azeroth killed my enjoyment of WoW's story, especially coming off Legion, which was fantastic. BFA had some good moments, like Jaina, Talanji, Bwomsamdi, but on the whole? It was just awful, and I don't think many people would disagree. Shadowlands has somehow even been worse in the story department with hands down the most boring and uninteresting villain in WoW's history.


I also high, HIGHLY disagree with the bolded part, but that's a whole different can of worms I'm not opening.

There's literally nowhere to go with that static content. I had no idea you could confine yourself to BC and WotLK now. Great let's "progress" my character by stagnating the game into another completely confined era of rehashed content. What a blast.

And yet, that's what's getting people to not only come back, but also stay subscribed. Shadowlands had the biggest sales of any WoW expansion, but the subscriber count fell off a cliff at a drastic rate, and it's already shaping up to be the next Warlords of Draenor as a 2 patch Expansion before they ship off the next Expansion. Shadowlands is basically dead content they're rushing out the door to push out the next Expansion.

You do realize the inherent difference between "progressing" by doing rehashed content, progressing by patching in an expansion on top of a 20-year-old product and progressing by making a completely new game started from scratch right? I'm kind of sick of this confused conversation comparing completely different concepts or implying they're in any way similar to each other. They're not. It seems like you're the lost one.

This implies a WoW2 would even be successful at this stage of the game when both Retail is a dying game and FF14 exists, which even you agreed it's simply too late.

I'm simply an advocate for WOW2 because I see far more merit in it than the current trajectory of rehashing WOW1 forever and ever.

And that's perfectly fine, but I'm looking at it from a different viewpoint, because in my eyes, there's no way to 'fix' WoW other than to give the players what they want, and what they want is either 2 things:

Either content akin to Classic, which they're already getting

Or, another Legion


And we've had 2 Expansions in a row that are most certainly not another Legion.


If I don't trust the current development team with what they got already, why would I trust them with a WoW2? Yes, we can speculate til the cows come home about Xbox buying them, but it's just that, speculation, we have zero clue how WoW will change right now due to the acquisition, it could get better, worse, or stay the exact same. We don't know.

 

[Simnm]

It is definitely important enough to get some representation but I have no idea what that would be. As far as I know, it doesn’t have any standout characters that would make for great fighters.

I mean theres captain john price
But when i was thinking something spirits,assist trophies or mii costumes or something like that
And also cod is extremely popular in japan
And also is one of the most played fps games

 

[Shroob]

I mean theres captain john price
But when i was thinking something spirits,assist trophies or mii costumes or something like that
And also cod is extremely popular in japan
And also is one of the most played fps games

Looking into this


I'm actually surprised COD does as well as it does in Japan.


Granted, in recent years the numbers have dropped considerably, but in 2018, the same year as Ultimate, one game sold like 200k copies, which for Japan is fantastic.

 

[ForsakenM]

You said "you guys", did you not?
Not "you guys who told me this".
Not "you anti-crash guys".
Not "you guys who hate blizzard".

"You guys".​

Do you even have a post or a user tag to show me how malicious Smashboards users are to you by demoralizing every fiber in your being for wanting one of the currently most popular and requested video game characters for Smash Bros? Are you implying that you've been harrassed and that you nor the staff were doing anything about it? At this point I'm not even about Crash on this, the post is just sus.

Just be careful with how you throw words around, man.

I made a big response to this but honestly, it's not a big deal and doesn't matter. I'm not worried about it. I'm merely pointing out that I said something, people here thought it was wrong or bad and I disagreed, and now no one has to worry about it anymore...all while tossing in some snark that is more for entertainment than it is of representation of my personality.

I think we can move on.
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Regardless, this is massively off-topic. Way more interesting is how easily more characters people love and want in Smash can get in.

Remember that we got 2 MS characters as DLC and rumor has it that we were going to get a third, even if that rumor was either just flat-out wrong or was correct in some regard that we have yet to see or understand.

We could easily now see a MS character in base for the next Smash and at least two more throughout DLC which will inevitably happen. I really believe that Crash, Chief and Slayer are the ones who will get in but, even though the Spyro games aren't that great upon reflection, I would still enjoy him getting in in a similar manner to Sora where it would please a younger version of myself and excite me for a brief moment.

That said, I'm more interested in Xbox getting something worth buying their console. I'm not 13 anymore, so gritty shooters don't grab my attention like they used to. They have all this talent for building worlds and they shove it into Forza, for god's sake MS make a badass MMO with that team!

 

[Chuderz]

You were praising people that liked to do things like grow as a community and **** around. Now you're demonizing them because it's around old content. As for personal, I don't even play WoW, I have no horse in this race, I'm just pointing out your sudden heelturn when you realized that the reason people liked Classic wasn't just because "Hard game good."

Fair enough but I was expressing that sentiment in regards to a WOW2 recapturing WOW's glory days not anything else. I have a different view of it when it's applied to current WOW let alone Classic WOW. I absolutely do not feel the same way about that about Classic WOW because they're not recapturing WOW's former glory they're literally re-living it. I think the reason we don't find that sense of community in retail WOW is things like Dungeon Finder and Heirloom gear but I think it's also because the game is just too damn old now. DF and Heirlooms gear themselves are a byproduct of the game being too old.

A disservice to Azeroth is the various retcons and character assassinations the cast of characters go through whenever the writing team at Blizzard decides to toss a dart at the board to decide what happens next. "Oh Sylvanas is cool and badass! Oh, now she's a warmonger! Now she's Garosh 2.0! Oh, now she's actually not evil and was just confused...."

Battle for Azeroth killed my enjoyment of WoW's story, especially coming off Legion, which was fantastic. BFA had some good moments, like Jaina, Talanji, Bwomsamdi, but on the whole? It was just awful, and I don't think many people would disagree. Shadowlands has somehow even been worse in the story department with hands down the most boring and uninteresting villain in WoW's history.

Skip this part if you don't want the context of my personal experience with the game.

I guess I'll clarify what I played and what I did in each. I played the tail-end of Vanilla leading into BC. I literally begged my grandma for a subscription after I saw the South Park episode. I got two characters to level 70 a Paladin first that I raided with. I wasn't even a teenager at the time and I kind of hated raiding culture. These guys treated it like a job and honestly when I think back to it those adults were complete ****ing assholes to somebody that was clearly a child. I was forced into being a healer which was the complete opposite of the Retpally (lolret) I wanted to play but I wasn't even allowed to tank either. This is probably why I don't respect the try-hard crowd. Haven't thought about it in a while. Then I leveled a Hunter to 70 and focused on PVP and OH BOY DID I LOVE WOW. I had 3 rare pets that each did a different thing I had fully epic and enchanted PVP gear and freaking Deathcharger dropped and I freaking got it just helping a friend one time! I rode into battle on a Horde mount as a silly Dwarf Hunter and damn did I love that game. I quit before WotLK came out.

I then played Legion when it was current and had a good time again but in a completely different way. I leveled each class I was missing to max level. I had 3 whole new classes to play! That was sooooo much fun for me especially because I was a big fan of all 3 but especially the two Hero classes. Then after that I farmed mounts and transmogs. Honestly Blizzard timegating a lot of that cool gear/mounts inhibited my enjoyment of the game tremendously. There's no reason to get Thunderfury or Illdian's glaives if I can't transmog them. Why lock items away forever? Not fun really. My dream for an end to WOW1 official support would include bringing these lost items back. By all means make it hard to get these things still in some way but let them come back. Like Corrupted Ashbringer or Atiesh's staff or the Spidermount and the old titles!

I also high, HIGHLY disagree with the bolded part, but that's a whole different can of worms I'm not opening.

That's fine agree to disagree. Again I've never claimed it's bad in concept as an option but as far the future of the game and series goes absolutely no way do I think that's the best route to take; it's actually the worst. I don't care if it's the most successful part of the game. That's just a massive condemnation of game itself I feel like. That people would literally rather play rehashed 20-year-old content over seeing the series progress. Whether or not the expansions have been implemented poorly is subjective because I think lots of potential players don't even get into the game because they perceive the task to be too daunting hence the existence of Dungeon Finder and Heirlooms Gear and XP boosts. What I feel like is objective though is that game is waaaaay too old now. It needs to be remade from scratch. That's my personal opinion but I feel like the strategy has literally been to cater towards the WOW1 forever crowd. It's a dead-end. There's literally nowhere to go with the series if that's the future.

And yet, that's what's getting people to not only come back, but also stay subscribed. Shadowlands had the biggest sales of any WoW expansion, but the subscriber count fell off a cliff at a drastic rate, and it's already shaping up to be the next Warlords of Draenor as a 2 patch Expansion before they ship off the next Expansion. Shadowlands is basically dead content they're rushing out the door to push out the next Expansion.

Yeah I think when presented the option of updating a 20-year-old product with a poorly thought-out expansion versus just playing the 20-year-old content you're nostalgic for then I can sort of see where those players are coming from.

However poorly thought-out expansions on top of WOW1 =/= WOW2's potential.

This implies a WoW2 would even be successful at this stage of the game when both Retail is a dying game and FF14 exists, which even you agreed it's simply too late.

I assume you meant WOW2 wouldn't be successful.

Again I don't feel like WOW2's potential is comparable to expansions, especially half-hearted ones likely due to Activision's corporate mandate of conservative investment and minimal effort in supporting a 20-year-old product. That's especially not the case given Activison-Blizzard's debt leading to massive layoffs and the toxic work culture leading to massive walkouts making an already half-hearted effort into an almost impossible task.

And that's perfectly fine, but I'm looking at it from a different viewpoint, because in my eyes, there's no way to 'fix' WoW other than to give the players what they want, and what they want is either 2 things:

Either content akin to Classic, which they're already getting

Or, another Legion


And we've had 2 Expansions in a row that are most certainly not another Legion.


If I don't trust the current development team with what they got already, why would I trust them with a WoW2? Yes, we can speculate til the cows come home about Xbox buying them, but it's just that, speculation, we have zero clue how WoW will change right now due to the acquisition, it could get better, worse, or stay the exact same. We don't know.

Well I want a WOW2. It's been a concept rolling around in the gamer zeitgeist since the 10 year anniversary but there are all these reasons the conversation gets shot down. I think talented people could be brought in. Maybe the talent is already there and can thrive under new management with Microsoft funding? Maybe a little bit of both?

I don't want to play a classic version of a particular era of WOW. I don't want another expansion thrown on top of a 2004 game. I want a new MMORPG with modern systems. I want a Warcraft 4. I want Warcraft 3 Remake to be fixed. I want WOW1 to get a proper send-off and allowed to thrive in a true end-game post-official support world with maybe some mod tools given to the community. That offline single-player game idea is a good one too. Azeroth could totally work for a single-player experience.

Will I get exactly what I want? Probably not but dammit I'm just saying it'd be cool. I'd at least appreciate it. I just want Warcraft to finally progress and I was pretty much certain it'd never happen under Blizzard but especially not Activision-Blizzard. This buyout might not change anything but it's the closet thing to a chance the series has to actually progress and dammit I'm just going to say it.

I WANT WOW TO PROGRESS! I DECLARE IT!

 

[Dinoman96]

Worst case scenario is that RileyXY1 ends up being right and that Microsoft bails from Smash to go make their own platform fighter using all the characters and companies they've acquired over the years, thus ejecting Banjo and Steve from the series and also killing any possibility of Chief, Crash, Doomguy, etc joining in lol

(god i hope not...)

 

[Shroob]

Worst case scenario is that RileyXY1 ends up being right and that Microsoft bails from Smash to go make their own clone using all the characters and companies they've acquired over the years, thus ejecting Banjo and Steve from the series and also killing any possibility of Chief, Crash, Doomguy, etc joining in lol

(god i hope not...)

I just can't see Microsoft making a platform fighter, no matter how hard I try tbh. They've never really come off as a company that's a trend chaser outside of like, the Kinect, and with PSASBR and NASB's failure, Multiversus still yet to be seen, and Smash pretty much ruling the platform fighter genre, I kinda doubt they'd dip their toes into it.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'll be honest, even under that scenario, I don't see Crash happening over Steve and Banjo & Kazooie.

Banjo & Kazooie are a result of the ballot plus Sakurai being aware of how much they've been requested over the years and negotiations at that point becoming realizable. Even if Crash is a bigger name, the push to have him in Smash hasn't been as historically extensive as Banjo & Kazooie.

Steve is from Minecraft. Enough said.

This is exactly the reason I don't think there will be more Microsoft owned characters. Banjo and Steve where specifically requested and are big namesakes to Nintendo (Banjo), and gaming as a whole (Steve).

Nothing else Microsoft owns really compares. Crash even is a big maybe to me, and was always doubtful of Master Chief. Especially if there are gonna be cuts in the 3rd party roster, as negotiations for a second time are all but guaranteed.

 

[osby]

This is exactly the reason I don't think there will be more Microsoft owned characters. Banjo and Steve where specifically requested and are big namesakes to Nintendo (Banjo), and gaming as a whole (Steve).

Nothing else Microsoft owns really compares. Crash even is a big maybe to me, and was always doubtful of Master Chief. Especially if there are gonna be cuts in the 3rd party roster, as negotiations for a second time are all but guaranteed.

I think it's too early to speculate which third parties we'll get in the future but living up to Banjo is hardly a difficult feat.

With how many requests they got towards the end of this speculation cycle, it wouldn't be risky to say that Crash and Master Chief may be big requests like him, all while having significantly higher recognizability.

 

[Gengar84]

This is exactly the reason I don't think there will be more Microsoft owned characters. Banjo and Steve where specifically requested and are big namesakes to Nintendo (Banjo), and gaming as a whole (Steve).

Nothing else Microsoft owns really compares. Crash even is a big maybe to me, and was always doubtful of Master Chief. Especially if there are gonna be cuts in the 3rd party roster, as negotiations for a second time are all but guaranteed.

I think it could go either way honestly but I think the fact that Nintendo has already negotiated with Microsoft for Smash makes it a lot more likely. Microsoft has a ton of worthy options beyond just Crash, Master Chief, and Doom Slayer that seem to get all the attention. Blizzard’s IP are some of the most iconic in gaming and Nintendo has a lot of history with RARE. I think both of these are sadly being overlooked.

I might be wrong but I believe WarCraft is an even bigger franchise than Halo and definitely eclipses both Crash and DOOM so I feel like it is a very strong contender. On RARE’s end, a new Perfect Dark is in development and a new Killer Instinct is rumored to be being developed by Namco-Bandai. That’s not to mention the possibility of the Battletoads as a retro character. They recently had a new game and have had cameos in KI and Shovel Knight. RARE’s characters may not have the mainstream popularity of other Microsoft characters but I still believe the company’s history with Nintendo should mean something and at least put them on the table for consideration.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Hoo boy, so Microsoft buying Activision-Blizzard eh?
This is probably one of the biggest gaming news in like....ever. 70 ****ing billion dollars to buy the company, for comparison's sake Bethesda was like 7 billion. Sony is in a pickle now since Call of Duty, which is one of the most sold games on Playstation, is now owned by Microsoft and might be excluded from Playstation. PC players though will continue to win, CoD games will come back to Steam and Battle.net will get merged with the Xbox network.

Now as for Smash.....all I'll say is that Microsoft now has the largest amount of popularly requested third party characters for Smash, even surpassing Capcom. It's going to be really interesting how speculation for the next game will go, here's to hoping the next generation of speculators don't make the same mistake we did with assuming only one Microsoft rep could get in which resulted in the silly Banjo-Steve slap fest.

Unless something bad happens to Nintendo's relations with Microsoft in the coming years, I think it's safe to say we'll get more than one Microsoft newcomer for the next game. Microsoft just has waaay too many iconic characters to ignore.........though then again I said the same thing for Capcom, so who knows?

 

[Gengar84]

Hoo boy, so Microsoft buying Activision-Blizzard eh?
This is probably one of the biggest gaming news in like....ever. 70 ****ing billion dollars to buy the company, for comparison's sake Bethesda was like 7 billion. Sony is in a pickle now since Call of Duty, which is one of the most sold games on Playstation, is now owned by Microsoft and might be excluded from Playstation. PC players though will continue to win, CoD games will come back to Steam and Battle.net will get merged with the Xbox network.

Now as for Smash.....all I'll say is that Microsoft now has the largest amount of popularly requested third party characters for Smash, even surpassing Capcom. It's going to be really interesting how speculation for the next game will go, here's to hoping the next generation of speculators don't make the same mistake we did with assuming only one Microsoft rep could get in which resulted in the silly Banjo-Steve slap fest.

Unless something bad happens to Nintendo's relations with Microsoft in the coming years, I think it's safe to say we'll get more than one Microsoft newcomer for the next game. Microsoft just has waaay too many iconic characters to ignore.........though then again I said the same thing for Capcom, so who knows?

Yeah, I think it’s a mistake for people to arbitrarily set a limit to how many characters a company can have. To me, Smash has always been about the characters themselves and not the companies they represent. Even more, Microsoft now owns several major developers with their own impact on gaming before their acquisition so I don’t see anything wrong with having several characters. We could get Crash, Master Chief, Doom Slayer, Illidan, and the Battletoads and all of them would give us something completely different. I don’t see how them all being owned by Microsoft hurts them in terms of Smash. If anything, being owned by one company just makes negotiating for multiple characters easier.

 

[RileyXY1]

Yeah, I think it’s a mistake for people to arbitrarily set a limit to how many characters a company can have. To me, Smash has always been about the characters themselves and not the companies they represent. Even more, Microsoft now owns several major developers with their own impact on gaming before their acquisition so I don’t see anything wrong with having several characters. We could get Crash, Master Chief, Doom Slayer, Illidan, and the Battletoads and all of them would give us something completely different. I don’t see how them all being owned by Microsoft hurts them in terms of Smash. If anything, being owned by one company just makes negotiating for multiple characters easier.

Well, it wouldn't make sense unless the next Smash goes the "Nintendo vs. Microsoft" route like Marvel vs. Capcom.

 

[Gengar84]

Well, it wouldn't make sense unless the next Smash goes the "Nintendo vs. Microsoft" route like Marvel vs. Capcom.

I wouldn’t mind that either but I don’t think getting 5 characters necessarily means that it would have to be limited to just Microsoft. I think people get too hung up on the idea of company representation rather than the characters themselves. Even then, All of Microsoft’s major developers have their own separate histories so it wouldn’t be the same as getting 5 Capcom characters.

 

[RileyXY1]

I wouldn’t mind that either but I don’t think getting 5 characters necessarily means that it would have to be limited to just Microsoft. I think people get too hung up on the idea of company representation rather than the characters themselves. Even then, All of Microsoft’s major developers have their own separate histories so it wouldn’t be the same as getting 5 Capcom characters.

It might be unfair to all the other third party companies, and I don't think that Microsoft would want to be that greedy unless they intend to outright buy out Nintendo in the near future.

 

[Chuderz]

Hoo boy, so Microsoft buying Activision-Blizzard eh?
This is probably one of the biggest gaming news in like....ever. 70 ****ing billion dollars to buy the company, for comparison's sake Bethesda was like 7 billion. Sony is in a pickle now since Call of Duty, which is one of the most sold games on Playstation, is now owned by Microsoft and might be excluded from Playstation.

I don't really have a dog in that race because I don't really play COD. That being I wonder if it could potentially be used as a negotiating chip with Sony in exchange for universal crossplay between applicable titles and even potentially for GamePass itself someday. Namely the former option, similar to how keeping Minecraft multiplat allowed for crossplay with Minecraft itself and later Fortnite.

COD seems like the kind of franchise like Minecraft that'd have a more pronounced benefit in remaining multiplat and would give Microsoft a big PR win with gamers officializing crossplay between all machines.

Obviously it's safer to assume the exclusive route. I said as much about the Bethesda buyout when people were hoping (coping) for those games to remain multiplat.

I'm not the biggest crossplay advocate, I actually largely don't really care but I know it's something gamers have advocated for and I see it obviously as a net-positive for the industry so long as Nintendo gets their act together on that front in the future I guess.

Sorry I keep not talking about Smash stuff.

I don't wanna presume Crash just gets in the first chance he does but it's hard not to right now. I think it'd be cool if he just came with Spyro at the exact same time as his reveal. We'd all be like expecting him at some point then like "WEN CRASH4SMASH" status of anticipation. You start off with his reveal and it's of course hype as **** and people are losing it but then... SPYRO TAKES CHARGE. WHOA nobody was expecting them both at the same time! That'd be so cool if they got double revealed together. I know it's kind of greedy or whatever but I'm just throwing it out there. I mean if Crash gets in I pretty much immediately move to Spyro sooooooo that'd be pretty awesome for me.

 

[RileyXY1]

I just can't see Microsoft making a platform fighter, no matter how hard I try tbh. They've never really come off as a company that's a trend chaser outside of like, the Kinect, and with PSASBR and NASB's failure, Multiversus still yet to be seen, and Smash pretty much ruling the platform fighter genre, I kinda doubt they'd dip their toes into it.

NASB is not exactly a failure. It's clearly taking the Battle for the Grid approach to game development, and you know how that game turned out.

 

[Gengar84]

It might be unfair to all the other third party companies, and I don't think that Microsoft would want to be that greedy unless they intend to outright buy out Nintendo in the near future.

We already don’t have balanced representation from companies in Smash. SNK only has Terry while other developers have 3 characters. Depending on how you count Sora, Square-Enix has four unique characters that are at least strongly associated with them. Koei-Tecmo never even got a single character despite their great relationship with Nintendo and Ryu Hyabusa’s popularity.

 

[Xombie_Rhythm]

Edit. Peace

 

[Chuderz]

I don't really have a dog in that race because I don't really play COD. That being I wonder if it could potentially be used as a negotiating chip with Sony in exchange for universal crossplay between applicable titles and even potentially for GamePass itself someday. Namely the former option, similar to how keeping Minecraft multiplat allowed for crossplay with Minecraft itself and later Fortnite.

COD seems like the kind of franchise like Minecraft that'd have a more pronounced benefit in remaining multiplat and would give Microsoft a big PR win with gamers officializing crossplay between all machines.

Also to add to this thought it kind of gives Microsoft some plausible deniability to maneuver around the reasonable monopoly accusations they're getting now. Defenders could point to them sharing COD with Sony as a counterpoint against saying they're a monopoly. Totally cynical and slimy because that wouldn't negate the argument (of them being a monopoly) but also it'd be a situation where they stand to make more money that way and potentially also stand to gain access to Playstation's userbase in very meaningful ways.

Of course if nothing is done anyway (and I have plenty of reason to believe there won't be) then it functionally doesn't matter but I wonder how the gaming division will handle this. The thought of them being a monopoly runs in direct opposition to the consumer-friendly image they've been working to build up over the last 5 or so years. Public perception seems important to them somewhat. Seems like something to consider.

Anyways Smash. Um. Really I largely agree with the sentiment around Microsoft POTENTIALLY being the best buyer of Activision-Blizzard. though that remains to be seen but damn the well of the opportunity it opened up for Smash is insane. I don't mean to harp on Ultimate DX specifically because any route for Smash stands to benefit from this but damn... EiH plus established working relationship with Microsoft at this point is basically the silly bloated roster of the Smash communities' dreams.

I wonder what Sakurai thinks of all of this? I wonder if like us he's thinking about the possibilities this could bring to Smash.

 

[Gengar84]

Also to add to this thought it kind of gives Microsoft some plausible deniability to maneuver around the reasonable monopoly accusations they're getting now. Defenders could point to them sharing COD with Sony as a counterpoint against saying they're a monopoly. Totally cynical and slimy because that wouldn't negate the argument (of them being a monopoly) but also it'd be a situation where they stand to make more money that way and potentially also stand to gain access to Playstation's userbase in very meaningful ways.

Of course if nothing is done anyway (and I have plenty of reason to believe there won't be) then it functionally doesn't matter but I wonder how the gaming division will handle this. The thought of them being a monopoly runs in direct opposition to the consumer-friendly image they've been working to build up over the last 5 or so years. Public perception seems important to them somewhat. Seems like something to consider.

Anyways Smash. Um. Really I largely agree with the sentiment around Microsoft POTENTIALLY being the best buyer of Activision-Blizzard. though that remains to be seen but damn the well of the opportunity it opened up for Smash is insane. I don't mean to harp on Ultimate DX specifically because any route for Smash stands to benefit from this but damn... EiH plus established working relationship with Microsoft at this point is basically the silly bloated roster of the Smash communities' dreams.

I wonder what Sakurai thinks of all of this? I wonder if like us he's thinking about the possibilities this could bring to Smash.

My ideal scenario is to keep every character and for Microsoft to get a good amount of characters in the next game. There would still be plenty of room for other companies to get characters like Bill Rizer, Shionne, Crono, Ryu Hyabusa, and Nemesis just to name a few.

The funny thing is that I never really cared about Microsoft themselves but I’ve always been a huge RARE and Blizzard fan. That combined with their other iconic characters like the big 3 means there is a ton of potential from Microsoft alone. If the next Smash does actually go down the path of limiting to just Nintendo vs Microsoft, who would you like to see represent each company? If the roster needs to be cut, let’s start with a starting roster of 50 split evenly between Nintendo and Microsoft.

 

[RileyXY1]

I'm not expecting too much from Microsoft next Smash, as I don't know if they would want to be greedy and essentially turn Smash Bros. into "Nintendo vs. XBox".

 

[Gengar84]

I'm not expecting too much from Microsoft next Smash, as I don't know if they would want to be greedy and essentially turn Smash Bros. into "Nintendo vs. XBox".

I don’t really agree with the sentiment that it would make Microsoft greedy. It’s just a different direction to potentially go if cuts need to be made for future titles. Capcom does crossovers with a single company all the time and I wouldn’t call that greedy.

 

[Lyncario]

For next Microsoft in the next Smash, I kinda expect it to be similar to this one, with one new character by dlc cycle. I see Banjo and Steve very easily coming back, with maybe Doomguy in base game next game since ID Software actualy talked about it with Sakurai. And if this happens, well, the next one would be between Crash and Master Chief, at which point I have no idea which one would get in before the other.

 

[RileyXY1]

For next Microsoft in the next Smash, I kinda expect it to be similar to this one, with one new character by dlc cycle. I see Banjo and Steve very easily coming back, with maybe Doomguy in base game next game since ID Software actualy talked about it with Sakurai. And if this happens, well, the next one would be between Crash and Master Chief, at which point I have no idea which one would get in before the other.

If we're getting any Bethesda character I instead expect them to add the Dragonborn from Skyrim.

 

[Dinoman96]

I don't think adding like, 1-3 more Microsoft characters in the next game will turn it into "Nintendo vs. Xbox" or whatever lol

Reminds me of those people complaining about how there's too many third party characters in Smash, even though the roster is still essentially dominated by Nintendo characters.

 

[Gengar84]

For next Microsoft in the next Smash, I kinda expect it to be similar to this one, with one new character by dlc cycle. I see Banjo and Steve very easily coming back, with maybe Doomguy in base game next game since ID Software actualy talked about it with Sakurai. And if this happens, well, the next one would be between Crash and Master Chief, at which point I have no idea which one would get in before the other.

I think that is probably the most likely scenario. I have doubts that Microsoft would go with just Doom Slayer and Master Chief due to their similar appearance and genre. I think they’ll likely go with Crash over one of the two for that reason but we could always get a WarCraft character instead.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

I don't think adding like, 1-3 more Microsoft characters in the next game will turn it into "Nintendo vs. Xbox" or whatever lol

Reminds me of those people complaining about how there's too many third party characters in Smash, even though the roster is still essentially dominated by Nintendo characters.

People also mean Assist Trophies or even Mii Costumes.
Just also think about the Spirits or Music Tracks.
What about Stages?!

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I really hope that call of duty gets some representation in smash.
Its one of the most influential fps games of all time heck it might be one of the most influential games of all time

The problem with Call of duty is that even the most iconic characters like Price don't have that much personality. This was said by Sakurai that characters in Smash need to have a personality and that it's important that the character have something only him can do. Sakurai said this: "No matter how suited a character may be to fighting, if I cannot meaningfully distinguish them from other characters, or create fun unique characteristics of the characters, then that’s the end for them.". You can read the full article here if you're interested in the topic: SourceGaming

Even for non playable representation I really doubt we'll see Cod in Smash. The character design is probably too generic for a mii. The best chances is probably spirits, but it would probably cause problems if they have realistic guns on their artwork so even that I wouldn't count on it.

 

[Simnm]

Honestly the activision buyout feels much more sudden than the zenimax buyout which felt like it was planned for years prior

 

[Sucumbio]

I feel this acquisition by Microsoft can only be positive for Smash and for gaming in general. Microsoft now has control over several unrepresented IPs that would be great in Smash, and in terms of overall gaming culture they've demonstrated their commitment to positive gaming culture and development. They have their sights set on their own version of Metaverse and with the success of Gamepass they are positioned to be the true leader in all things entertainment.

This said, I will be cautiously optimistic in regards to which IPs Nintendo courts. Even though Steve got in for example the negotiating was long and intense. With the addition of all these new IPs we're going to see even lengthier negotiating windows though obviously the reward to fans will be huge if they pull it off.

On a side note many in the game reporting sector are worried about the impact to Sony. While it's clear Nintendo has solidified it's legacy time and again, the supply chain issues haunting the PS5, their inability to keep up with Gamepass's upward trajectory and their falling behind in terms of development for legacy Franchises (which Microsoft just added a treasure trove to their potential lineup)... It just worries a lot of people regarding their future. Me personally though I skipped even getting a PS4 and am contemplating heavily going with Xbox this generation (Gamepass is a system seller IMHO), I don't think the doom and gloom will pan out. Only time will tell I suppose.

 

[Gengar84]

I feel this acquisition by Microsoft can only be positive for Smash and for gaming in general. Microsoft now has control over several unrepresented IPs that would be great in Smash, and in terms of overall gaming culture they've demonstrated their commitment to positive gaming culture and development. They have their sights set on their own version of Metaverse and with the success of Gamepass they are positioned to be the true leader in all things entertainment.

This said, I will be cautiously optimistic in regards to which IPs Nintendo courts. Even though Steve got in for example the negotiating was long and intense. With the addition of all these new IPs we're going to see even lengthier negotiating windows though obviously the reward to fans will be huge if they pull it off.

On a side note many in the game reporting sector are worried about the impact to Sony. While it's clear Nintendo has solidified it's legacy time and again, the supply chain issues haunting the PS5, their inability to keep up with Gamepass's upward trajectory and their falling behind in terms of development for legacy Franchises (which Microsoft just added a treasure trove to their potential lineup)... It just worries a lot of people regarding their future. Me personally though I skipped even getting a PS4 and am contemplating heavily going with Xbox this generation (Gamepass is a system seller IMHO), I don't think the doom and gloom will pan out. Only time will tell I suppose.

It’s kind of funny that my whole life I’ve bought almost exclusively Nintendo and Sony consoles. I bought every Nintendo console since the NES and every Sony console other than Vita. The only exceptions are a Dreamcast I bought for cheap after support was already dead and an X-Box 360 to play JRPGs early in that Gen. Once they stopped focusing on those, I switched back to Sony and bought a PS3. With Sony’s recent lack of support of Japanese games and Microsoft now owning my two favorite western developers (putting aside the controversy and just focusing on their IP), I’m thinking of buying an X-Box again over a PS5. My biggest worry is missing out on Final Fantasy, but besides VII Remake, I haven’t truly loved a Final Fantasy since X nearly 20 years ago.

 

[Sucumbio]

It’s kind of funny that my whole life I’ve bought almost exclusively Nintendo and Sony consoles. I bought every Nintendo console since the NES and every Sony console other than Vita. The only exceptions are a Dreamcast I bought for cheap after support was already dead and an X-Box 360 to play JRPGs early in that Gen. Once they stopped focusing on those, I switched back to Sony and bought a PS3. With Sony’s recent lack of support of Japanese games and Microsoft now owning my two favorite western developers (putting aside the controversy and just focusing on their IP), I’m thinking of buying an X-Box again over a PS5. My biggest worry is missing out on Final Fantasy, but besides VII Remake, I haven’t truly loved a Final Fantasy since X nearly 20 years ago.

Yeah Sony is in a tough spot. Japanese companies don't really spend money on mergers and acquisitions in gaming like US companies do and even if they wanted to their options are... Square, Konami, Capcom and Sega and honestly none of those companies would want to be merged with Sony because their relationship with Nintendo would suffer so from a purely business perspective there's just no good incentive to be limited like that. Sony will have to focus on hardware sales and development to stay relevant and this will require them to bleed profits to outlast chip shortages. They can do it but it'll hurt them depending on how long these issues last.

 

[Gengar84]

Yeah Sony is in a tough spot. Japanese companies don't really spend money on mergers and acquisitions in gaming like US companies do and even if they wanted to their options are... Square, Konami, Capcom and Sega and honestly none of those companies would want to be merged with Sony because their relationship with Nintendo would suffer so from a purely business perspective there's just no good incentive to be limited like that. Sony will have to focus on hardware sales and development to stay relevant and this will require them to bleed profits to outlast chip shortages. They can do it but it'll hurt them depending on how long these issues last.

The good news for me at least is that I never really had much personal attachment to Sony, unlike Nintendo. I just bought every PlayStation because it happened to have the games I was interested in playing. If Sony drops out of the console race, I’ll just switch over to whatever console has those games, which is likely X-Box. I’ll probably always buy every Nintendo console because they have so many great exclusives and they have more sentimentality for me as part of my childhood.