Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[GoldenYuiitusin]

How likely do you think a new Zelda character is?

Like... ANY new Zelda character?

Ultimate was probably the best bet for an older character due to the Ballot, and the most we got out of it was the Moon as an Assist and a Skull Kid Mii Costume as if to acknowledge he did ok on the Ballot.


So now it's down to a more contemporary pick. And....yeah, if Smash 4 didn't get Impa or Ghirahim despite Skyward Sword being out before the project proposal, kind of a really hard sell for someone like Rauru getting picked for Tears of the Kingdom.

 

[Noipoi]

How likely do you think a new Zelda character is?

Like... ANY new Zelda character?

I think, due to the overwhelming success of the two BOTW games, it’s actually slightly more likely they pull a fighter from one of those. Be it one of the champions, or Rauru, or something like that.

With that said, notice that I said slightly more likely instead of incredibly likely. Because I still don’t think it has that great a chance of actually happening.

At this rate, if they want a new fighter, the Zelda fanbase is gonna have to really throw all their weight behind one character. Like with Ridley or K Rool back in the day.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

I think the Wild-era has much more firmly established itself as a consistent story with a consistent set of characters, a lot more than characters like Ghirahim and Midna and Vaati and stuff. The last mainline Zelda game was a direct sequel and means the Wild era has already spanned 7 years. Especially given a new Smash game is probably in pre-production atm if it's gonna happen, I definitely don't think it would be unlikely.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The Legend of Zelda series is kind of interesting to think about. It got in Super Smash Bros. because duh. It got and because also duh, but also added to make sure Zelda stood out from the other fighters, as well as because a lot of people told Sakurai they didn't like how slow and clunky Link played. It got to keep the roster up to date and rep The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker. ,, and now reflect their appearance in The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess. They were even going to add new versions of . Then in SSB4...nothing happened on the fighter front. They added the Gust Bellows, The Skull Kid, Midna, Girahim, and Skyloft as items and stages, but no characters or character updates. The characters are still from Twilight Princess, not Skyward Sword. Super Smash Bros. Ultimate comes around and there really isn't space for new characters from any series, but and are now from The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, is now from The Legend of Zelda: Link Between Worlds, is back to being from The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, and is back! Together with , they represent quite a lot of the series as a whole.


I think they want to do the series justice, but keep being unable to swing an extra character, and so compensate by making the triforce heroes from different games each time, culminating in what happened in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. Keeping that in mind, maybe a Legend of Zelda character is more likely than we think. Or maybe we'll just get Tears of the Kingdom Link. Who knows.

I think the Wild-era has much more firmly established itself as a consistent story with a consistent set of characters, a lot more than characters like Ghirahim and Midna and Vaati and stuff. The last mainline Zelda game was a direct sequel and means the Wild era has already spanned 7 years. Especially given a new Smash game is probably in pre-production atm if it's gonna happen, I definitely don't think it would be unlikely.

True, but the Wild era is probably over at this point. I'm not sure we'd see what's next before the next Smash though so maybe they'd take that opportunity to add a character from those games?

Interestingly, if the next game doesn't take a billion years to come out, it might actually have perfect timing for a DLC character.

 

[osby]

Ultimate was probably the best bet for an older character due to the Ballot, and the most we got out of it was the Moon as an Assist and a Skull Kid Mii Costume as if to acknowledge he did ok on the Ballot.

Ballot was honestly a pretty bad way to add a Zelda character because fans were (and still are) divided between half a dozen good choices and Pig Ganon.

So now it's down to a more contemporary pick. And....yeah, if Smash 4 didn't get Impa or Ghirahim despite Skyward Sword being out before the project proposal, kind of a really hard sell for someone like Rauru getting picked for Tears of the Kingdom.

Fair, though I'd argue that BotW/TotK duology is a fair bit bigger deal than SS. It's not out of the question that it's still one of the biggest Zelda-related things when the next Smash rolls out.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Ballot was honestly a pretty bad way to add a Zelda character because fans were (and still are) divided between half a dozen good choices and Pig Ganon.

That, and more than a few other characters that weren't even from LoZ would've most likely gotten more votes anyway.

I forget if the exact numbers of the ballot were ever publicly released, but it sounds like K. Rool was essentially the "winner" of it, or at least out of all the newcomers that debuted in Ultimate instead of Smash 4.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I forget if the exact numbers of the ballot were ever publicly released, but it sounds like K. Rool was essentially the "winner" of it, or at least out of all the newcomers that debuted in Ultimate instead of Smash 4.

Numbers were never shared, but Sakurai has gone on record to say Sora was the true winner and Banjo was second.

 

[Noipoi]

Actually the true winner was Goku, with Shrek in second place. But we’re not supposed to talk about that

 

[Ivander]

I forget if the exact numbers of the ballot were ever publicly released, but it sounds like K. Rool was essentially the "winner" of it, or at least out of all the newcomers that debuted in Ultimate instead of Smash 4.

The exact numbers weren't released, but according to Sakurai, Sora was Number 1, with Banjo & Kazooie not far from them(They were the 2nd character behind Sora that was picked, meaning either they were 2nd place or there were characters between Sora and Banjo that they couldn't get, so Banjo & Kazooie were the 2nd highest they could get).
That said, if the rumors are true that Nintendo was very surprised at King K. Rool's popularity, he probably was one of the highest voted 1st Party fighters, if not the highest 1st Party, to get in.

Numbers were never shared, but Sakurai has gone on record to say Sora was the true winner and Banjo was second.

2nd highest Fighter they could get. Banjo & Kazooie were not confirmed to be 2nd place. Just that out of the fighters behind Sora, Banjo & Kazooie were the 2nd highest that they got in Smash Bros. They could've been 2nd place, but it's also possible that there were characters between Sora and Banjo that they couldn't get.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

True, but the Wild era is probably over at this point. I'm not sure we'd see what's next before the next Smash though so maybe they'd take that opportunity to add a character from those games?

Interestingly, if the next game doesn't take a billion years to come out, it might actually have perfect timing for a DLC character.

The way I see it is that if you compare, like, the release dates of Wind Waker and Breath of the Wild, by this point in time from the day BOTW came out, Skyward Sword was already announced. Even if TOTK was it and the next Zelda game is a complete setting reinvention with no shared characters and it comes out in 2026, the Wild era would still be in a prime timespan to get a character. That's not to say it's a guarantee, but I'd say chances are decent.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Numbers were never shared, but Sakurai has gone on record to say Sora was the true winner and Banjo was second.

The exact numbers weren't released, but according to Sakurai, Sora was Number 1, with Banjo & Kazooie not far from them(They were the 2nd character behind Sora that was picked, meaning either they were 2nd place or there were characters between Sora and Banjo that they couldn't get, so Banjo & Kazooie were the 2nd highest they could get).
That said, if the rumors are true that Nintendo was very surprised at King K. Rool's popularity, he probably was one of the highest voted 1st Party fighters, if not the highest 1st Party, to get in.

Banjo and Kazooie scoring high makes sense, but I'm honestly shocked that Sora got that many votes. I thought if anything he was a more controversial newcomer choice until like the last two or three years before he finally got into the game.

Good to know that his popularity outweighed that. Sora and KH were always well-liked and the ballot is solid proof of that.

Actually the true winner was Goku, with Shrek in second place. But we’re not supposed to talk about that

Yeah, because votes for those characters don't even count.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Actually the true winner was Goku, with Shrek in second place. But we’re not supposed to talk about that

Yeah, because votes for those characters don't even count.

I still to this day think "among realizable characters" when Sakurai said Bayonetta was one of the top votes was code for "no we're not adding Goku"

 

[DarthEnderX]

I still to this day think "among realizable characters" when Sakurai said Bayonetta was one of the top votes was code for "no we're not adding Goku"

No. It was code for "among characters we were already adding to Smash 4, because it's too late to add anyone based on the actual results".

 

[Gengar84]

I imagine if Goku actually did consistently score the highest on these polls, Nintendo and Sakurai would at least entertain the idea of opening up the possibility for non gaming characters to join the roster. The end goal is to please as many fans as possible in order to sell the most copies of the game. It wouldn’t make sense to risk that if the majority didn’t want it but if a ton of fans legitimately want it to happen and he’s not just a meme joke request, I don’t really see the harm.

I know my stance on that is extremely unpopular so I apologize in advance if I offended anyone.

 

[Ivander]

No. It was code for "among characters we were already adding to Smash 4, because it's too late to add anyone based on the actual results".

Good luck getting Sora in Smash 4 when the Wii U was doing very poorly during the Smash Ballot.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

No. It was code for "among characters we were already adding to Smash 4, because it's too late to add anyone based on the actual results".

I still think they would've taken the effort of adding an actual newcomer if it wasn't for the convenience of Bayonetta, who had evidence of being in the works months before the ballot ended, scoring highly and thus being an easy copout so Sakurai can move quicker into Ultimate.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I still think they would've taken the effort of adding an actual newcomer if it wasn't for the convenience of Bayonetta, who had evidence of being in the works months before the ballot ended, scoring highly and thus being an easy copout so Sakurai can move quicker into Ultimate.

Exactly.

It's been made very clear to us during Ultimate that Smash characters are chosen years ahead of time. The Ballot was only 6 months before Smash 4 development ended.

Cloud, Corrin and Bayonetta were decided on long before the Ballot.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Exactly.

It's been made very clear to us during Ultimate that Smash characters are chosen years ahead of time. The Ballot was only 6 months before Smash 4 development ended.

Cloud, Corrin and Bayonetta were decided on long before the Ballot.

This does make me wonder though of what would have happened if Bayonetta didn't do well in the Ballot.

I suppose they could've used Cloud as the copout since Sakurai did say he got a LOT of the Final Fantasy votes, iirc... but having the "winner" release with absolutely no content would not have been a good look.

 

[DarthEnderX]

This does make me wonder though of what would have happened if Bayonetta didn't do well in the Ballot.

They just wouldn't have mentioned the Ballot. There's no reason to bring it up at all unless someone they were adding happened to coincide with someone that did well in the Ballot.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I imagine if Goku actually did consistently score the highest on these polls, Nintendo and Sakurai would at least entertain the idea of opening up the possibility for non gaming characters to join the roster. The end goal is to please as many fans as possible in order to sell the most copies of the game. It wouldn’t make sense to risk that if the majority didn’t want it but if a ton of fans legitimately want it to happen and he’s not just a meme joke request, I don’t really see the harm.

I know my stance on that is extremely unpopular so I apologize in advance if I offended anyone.

He's working with Namco, who practically has a monopoly on Dragon Ball and other Shonen Jump properties when it comes to gaming, and still thinks there would be too many hoops to jump through to get Goku in Smash. That should say a lot.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Yeah, I'm still convinced that Goku in Smash ain't ever happening.

And if it does, then the series is taking a new direction and one I don't think will benefit the series. All the perceived or outright made-up "fan rules" for newcomer inclusions are one thing, but there's a reason why originating from a video game is an actual, official prerequisite for a character's eligibility to join Smash.

 

[DarthEnderX]

And if it does, then the series is taking a new direction and one I don't think will benefit the series. All the perceived or outright made-up "fan rules" for newcomer inclusions are one thing, but there's a reason why originating from a video game is an actual, official prerequisite for a character's eligibility to join Smash.

I honestly think I'd just lose interest in Smash altogether if the 4P barrier were broken. Because then it's just Fortnite.

 

[fogbadge]

I imagine if Goku actually did consistently score the highest on these polls, Nintendo and Sakurai would at least entertain the idea of opening up the possibility for non gaming characters to join the roster. The end goal is to please as many fans as possible in order to sell the most copies of the game. It wouldn’t make sense to risk that if the majority didn’t want it but if a ton of fans legitimately want it to happen and he’s not just a meme joke request, I don’t really see the harm.

I know my stance on that is extremely unpopular so I apologize in advance if I offended anyone.

if that was true though we'd only ever have fan favourite characters and there's be no PP or Incineroar and the like

 

[Gengar84]

My view is that the original intent for Smash was already changed with the introduction of Snake in Brawl. Smash 64 and Melee were originally strictly first party crossover titles but they’ve gradually increasing the number of guest characters to the point that Smash is now seen as a “celebration of gaming”. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing, just a different path from where the series started. Introducing non gaming characters is just the next logical step in my opinion. Not saying that it’s the only correct option but I never really understood the hard line against non gaming characters.

if that was true though we'd only ever have fan favourite characters and there's be no PP or Incineroar and the like

I think that there’s enough iconic gaming characters that that’s already the case for the most part. We’re much more likely to see huge icons like Master Chief than smaller third parties. I don’t really want Smash to turn into just including the top selling franchises at the exclusion of everything else but I don’t think opening up the possibility of non gaming characters changes much in that regard.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

My view is that the original intent for Smash was already changed with the introduction of Snake in Brawl. Smash 64 and Melee were originally strictly first party crossover titles but they’ve gradually increasing the number of guest characters to the point that Smash is now seen as a “celebration of gaming”. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing, just a different path from where the series started. Introducing non gaming characters is just the next logical step in my opinion. Not saying that it’s the only correct option but I never really understood the hard line against non gaming characters.

Because then it opens the door for virtually any character from almost any form of media. And then fan requests, fan backlash from character inclusions and exclusions alike, and licensing matters would all turn into an utter nightmare and the series could hypothetically just become an almost entirely random crossover fighter.

Just let Smash remain a gaming-focused fighter series.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I don’t really want Smash to turn into just including the top selling franchises at the exclusion of everything else but I don’t think opening up the possibility of non gaming characters changes much in that regard.

Trust me, it will. Just judging by how the fandom changed throughout the Fighter's Passes alone, we will go from "Master Chief would be so hype" to "Master Chief would be lame compared to Charlie Brown!"

Remember, even Nintendo characters that have millions of fans are still lumped into "there are no good Nintendo characters left"-posting.

 

[fogbadge]

Trust me, it will. Just judging by how the fandom changed throughout the Fighter's Passes alone, we will go from "Master Chief would be so hype" to "Master Chief would be lame compared to Charlie Brown!"

Remember, even Nintendo characters that have millions of fans are still lumped into "there are no good Nintendo characters left"-posting.

id take Charlie Brown over Master Chief any day

 

[osby]

My view is that the original intent for Smash was already changed with the introduction of Snake in Brawl. Smash 64 and Melee were originally strictly first party crossover titles but they’ve gradually increasing the number of guest characters to the point that Smash is now seen as a “celebration of gaming”. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing, just a different path from where the series started. Introducing non gaming characters is just the next logical step in my opinion. Not saying that it’s the only correct option but I never really understood the hard line against non gaming characters.

Not really, it's just a next step. There's no logic in it other than equating an increase in focus with a change of focus.

 

[Gengar84]

Because then it opens the door for virtually any character from almost any form of media. And then fan requests, fan backlash from character inclusions and exclusions alike, and licensing matters would all turn into an utter nightmare and the series could hypothetically just become an almost entirely random crossover fighter.

Just let Smash remain a gaming-focused fighter series.

I’m not really trying to push for the idea, just saying I’m open to it. There are a lot of characters I love from comics, anime, and other media that would be fun to play in Smash. I’m also totally fine if it never happens too. As long as the gameplay is still fun and I get to play as characters I enjoy, I’m happy.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

How likely do you think a new Zelda character is?

Like... ANY new Zelda character?

I think there is a good chance. I could see Sakurai referring back to the ballot and adding characters that got out prioritized from their limited selection, and given that Sakurai said he added Simon and Richter because Castlvania characters placed highly, and not any single character in particular, I wouldn’t be surprised if he does the same thing again, but for Zelda, because I’m guessing there was a good amount of requests for a new Zelda character in general.

I’ve also recently come around on the idea of Raru. I could see Sakurai wanting to represent the abilities from Tears of the Kingdom without reworking Link, and Raru could do that in a similar way to how Rosalina represents abilities from Mario Galaxy.

 

[JOJONumber691]

I mean either way after Ultimate, and TotK, I’d say one of the biggest fan requests is a redone Ganondorf, and Sakurai is aware of it. I 100% feel it happening next game, because it is more than possible for Ganondorf to have his Playstyle and be more accurate at the same time.

 

[Will]

If Ganondorf gets reworked, I would hope other characters get that kind of makeover as well.

Because this is just sad representation for this decade.

 

[ninjahmos]

Yeah, I'm still convinced that Goku in Smash ain't ever happening.

And if it does, then the series is taking a new direction and one I don't think will benefit the series. All the perceived or outright made-up "fan rules" for newcomer inclusions are one thing, but there's a reason why originating from a video game is an actual, official prerequisite for a character's eligibility to join Smash.

With Pokemon as the exception.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

With Pokemon as the exception.

....that is such a weird thing to try and spin into an exception.

Yes, Lucario technically debuted in a movie, but he was still originally designed with Gen 4 in mind before anything else, making him a gaming character. The movie just happened to be completed and released before Diamond and Pearl did.

By that logic, Byleth is our first mobile gaming rep since they showed up in Heroes before Three Houses released. See how silly that is?

 

[KingofPhantoms]

With Pokemon as the exception.

Pokemon literally started as a video game and most of the Pokemon that are playable in Smash either debuted in the games or were already planned to appear in them by the time any of them appeared in the anime.

As big as the anime is, it's not an exception by any means.

 

[Perkilator]

‘D

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

It always comes back to non-gaming IPs, eh?

 

[Louie G.]

How likely do you think a new Zelda character is?

Like... ANY new Zelda character?

Reasonably likely by virtue of the series visibility throughout the Switch era. Nowhere near a guarantee, though.

Obviously the big question mark remains who that character would be. Admittedly, I'm also not that sold on any of the BOTW or TOTK characters in a vacuum. Rauru makes sense if they want to explore more of the TOTK mechanics that wouldn't suit Link, but I dunno. It's possible but I'm not locking in on it or anything.

I see a shared sentiment about how the community needs to unanimously back one character, and I kind of reject that notion. DKC support was splintered and/or shared between K. Rool and Dixie Kong, with a general sentiment that we'd be happy with new DKC content at all. K. Rool won over in the end, but his support wasn't exclusive. I think it's less that we need to rally behind one strong pick and more that we need to continue to be vocal about Zelda. We don't necessarily need to leave any of Skull Kid, Midna, Impa behind. But I think we need to have a sense of comradery about the series and how any of these characters would be a strong step forward.

And besides, I think Skull Kid is handily the most prominent fan request already. Midna is often mentioned alongside him, but is pretty firmly in a number two spot between this uh... "category" of Zelda character. Nowhere near a big enough, exclusive movement to be cannibalizing that demand... I think many people just want them both. Impa presents the alternate perspective of introducing a persistently relevant character to the series. This is where the major divide comes in, and frankly one that I don't think will really be mended properly. I'm not against Impa, but I'm not personally excited by the prospect. Similarly there are many people convinced that we should prioritize consistency, and are not interested in one shot characters. This is that comradery that I suspect we lack a bit, but truth be told it's been hard to gauge how large this base of support is vs those who believe it's just more likely and practical based on prior precedent. In any case these are the three names in rotation outside of the "recency" picks, and Midna tends to fall by the wayside a bit.

In this way it actually does kinda parallel K. Rool and Dixie to me. A nostalgic antagonist of the past and a protagonist (not as actively as Dixie Kong, but nonetheless) with more longstanding presence and recent appearances. I'm not saying we're getting a Zelda character, but these aren't bad options for them to work with on either side of the spectrum.

An alternate, more negative perspective on this however is that the Zelda cast is frequently updated in Smash - perhaps those adjustments made more in line with recent appearances, and the general amount of attention put on the series would make a new character lower priority. I will say I believe one of the fanbase's most consistent talking points - reworking Ganondorf - may only be achieved at the expense of a new Zelda character. This is IMO the biggest complication about getting more Zelda characters, because the cast is usually demanding a certain amount of special attention and updating as is. Theoretically there's nothing wrong with seeing it get a little more love, but again I just think it would be made slightly lower priority compared to other series that may be getting less otherwise or are brand new to the roster. The best chance at a new Zelda character is if these changes post-Ultimate are minimal.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

It always comes back to non-gaming IPs, eh?

Smash speculation has its own version of Godwin's Law.

The longer a discussion goes on, the more likely it is to eventually revolve around Goku

 

[HyperSomari64]

As someone Pro-Non Video Game content in future Smash games, i feel bored of bringing "The Talk" again