Clones should exist. They should just also be classified as Echoes.
The fact that we have one official term an two fan terms to describe 3 different versions of "character that uses another character's moves" is dumb as hell.
If a characters moveset isn't unique, they should be an Echo.
Still doesn't work that way. Moveset Clones did not originate because of Echoes. They originated because of extra time to create characters, and have been one kind of Model Swap Fighter. This isn't some weird made up thing. This literally happened. It was just cited recently. The reclassifcation won't ever make any sense since they have had definitions(most of it is loose, agreed). Notably Echoes were not a "last minute clone" either as a concept. While two previous ones were turned into those, the other 5 were planned from the start. Normal clones were otherwise last minute(Smash 64, Melee, 4), while Brawl didn't have any normal clones, but still had everyone in planned from the start. Albeit, it still had older clones, but generally some were Model Swap Fighters(Wolf is especially barely a clone at all, but still required Fox for 70% of the work required). Either way, Ultimate did things a tad differently, similar to Brawl's project plan(but everyone who was base was meant to be base and made it in there, so still a notable difference).
Stop acting like there's rules for how Echoes work! There aren't!
You're like one of those people that keep making up rules for who can't get into Smash based on what hasn't happened yet, and then has to retract their "rule" when a character is added that breaks that rule.
There's only differences that Echoes have had, and differences they haven't had...yet.
I mean other than citing countless times that they "must have the same bodyshape" being the exact reason should say something. And no, there isn't a "didn't happen yet". It literally was told to us that's a defining part of an Echo.
But here's yet another quote which shows... you're still wrong; "Isabelle was designed as sort of a customized version of Villager–similar, but not an Echo Fighter.
Echo Fighters have the same shape and structure as their original counterparts, but Villager and Isabelle are built completely differently. Some of their actions, like the Pocket, are very similar in order to maintain the
Animal Crossing feel. Also, she’s cute, especially when she’s moving around."
He literally tells us that it's a rule. Sorry, man, but that's just how it is. It's directly cited. You can disagree with it all you want, but that's something that is a hard fact. Is it possible something could change later? Sure. But saying it isn't a hard rule at this time doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Besides that, there's really no reason to try and redefine it.
Sakurai discusses Ultimate’s character selection, Smash as an e-sport and more!
sourcegaming.info
That said, hey, that's fair if you dislike the normal type of clones Smash has(which is clearly variable) over only Echo Fighters. And it's a perfectly fine headcanon, but people don't just say that to make up stuff. It's actually based around facts. We absolutely hard know the only core rule, and there's no denying the rest is actually legitimately difficult to define. (And this is not counting the bad 4 Marth meme. That never made sense outside of being silly). We don't know if Weight is an actual real factor or just turned out that way due to say, not much time to test. Understandably the overall attributes being similar to the original make sense, as they're mostly 1:1 characters. It still counts as an observation. Only actual thing said about that was by Reggie, who isn't a proper source.
The most confirmed is "they sometimes will have some changes in general", being with the citing of "Echo fighters aren’t simple reskins. First, we give them their own taunts and victory animations. Then, we adjust their abilities and parameters as necessary. Many people also overlook the artwork. Each piece features a given character in their standing pose, and each one undergoes a slew of tiny revisions–but it doesn’t end there. We then have to create a total of eight palette swaps for those artworks. I don’t think there are many other games that feature artwork that changes colors like that." This doesn't make it sound like attributes must be similar, even though it turned out to be the case. And it's fair to think it's not that simple. Cause it isn't, heh.
Sakurai discusses the August 8th Smash Direct in this column.
sourcegaming.info
I do hope they define it more beyond "same bodyshape", though. That's a really boring set of information and doesn't help much to speculate. While the rest at least can be observed reasonably due to what we know of, the massive lack of information is just silly. Nothing is stopping him from making it a tad more clear. The only thing I know of is some weird interview that compares Ken and Dr. Mario, but apparently that's just a rumor or something somebody said but never cited?? I dunno. That's about the only time how Echoes work had any note of being arbitrary(and I agree there is some, due to a major ambiguous set of information).
