Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Gengar84]

Time for a little history lesson.

Back in the pre-Smash 4 Days, we had something called the SmashBoards Elite Four.

It was our top five most wanted characters. Like the Elite Four from Pokemon, there was a champion too.

Before the game's reveal, the champion was none other than Mewtwo. With the other four being Mega Man, Ridley, King K. Rool and Little Mac. Those five were decided by a number of extensive community polls done by a fantastic community member by the name of Shorts (RIP King).

When the game and Mega Man was revealed, Palutena joined the Elite Four and replaced Mega Man. When Little Mac was revealed, Isaac replaced him. By the time Palutena was revealed, people stop tracking the Elite Four thing so much. The Gematsu leaks were dominating the conversation.

All of the original SmashBoards Elite Four were eventually included in the franchise. But my question is... What do you think today's Elite Four would be? And should we work together to find out today's Elite Four would be?

Also, my memory past Little Mac's reveal was slightly foggy. I know Palutena eventually joined the Elite Four, but my memory is still foggy on Isaac. If I misremembered anything. Let me know.

I’m pretty sure mine are wildly different than almost anyone else so I doubt I’d contribute much to the end result. It could still be fun to share our favorites again.

I have so many characters I’d love to see that it’s really hard to narrow down to just four but I think I’d go with:

Rash/Pimple/Zitz (alt costumes)
Magus
Fulgore
Illidan Stormrage

The bottom two change from day to day with some of my other favorites but that’s how I’m feeling right now. Zegram would be at the top of that list but I usually leave him out because I think he has literally no chance.

As far as my prediction for the community’s Elite 4, I’d guess something like:

Waluigi
Geno
Octoling
Bandana Dee

 

[Ivander]

Time for a little history lesson.

Back in the pre-Smash 4 Days, we had something called the SmashBoards Elite Four.

It was our top five most wanted characters. Like the Elite Four from Pokemon, there was a champion too.

Before the game's reveal, the champion was none other than Mewtwo. With the other four being Mega Man, Ridley, King K. Rool and Little Mac. Those five were decided by a number of extensive community polls done by a fantastic community member by the name of Shorts (RIP King).

When the game and Mega Man was revealed, Palutena joined the Elite Four and replaced Mega Man. When Little Mac was revealed, Isaac replaced him. By the time Palutena was revealed, people stop tracking the Elite Four thing so much. The Gematsu leaks were dominating the conversation.

All of the original SmashBoards Elite Four were eventually included in the franchise. But my question is... What do you think today's Elite Four would be? And should we work together to find out today's Elite Four would be?

Also, my memory past Little Mac's reveal was slightly foggy. I know Palutena eventually joined the Elite Four, but my memory is still foggy on Isaac. If I misremembered anything. Let me know.

If I had to make a guess, it'd probably be Waluigi, Isaac, Bandana Dee and Octoling. With a couple like Ashley and Krystal close behind.

Edit: Dixie Kong and maybe Skull Kid too.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

What do you think today's Elite Four would be? And should we work together to find out today's Elite Four would be?

It would probably be among the same select characters people wouldn't shut up about during the DLC period as being "locks".

With Waluigi as the Champion or perhaps the Rival.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Time for a little history lesson.

Back in the pre-Smash 4 Days, we had something called the SmashBoards Elite Four.

It was our top five most wanted characters. Like the Elite Four from Pokemon, there was a champion too.

Before the game's reveal, the champion was none other than Mewtwo. With the other four being Mega Man, Ridley, King K. Rool and Little Mac. Those five were decided by a number of extensive community polls done by a fantastic community member by the name of Shorts (RIP King).

When the game and Mega Man was revealed, Palutena joined the Elite Four and replaced Mega Man. When Little Mac was revealed, Isaac replaced him. By the time Palutena was revealed, people stop tracking the Elite Four thing so much. The Gematsu leaks were dominating the conversation.

All of the original SmashBoards Elite Four were eventually included in the franchise. But my question is... What do you think today's Elite Four would be? And should we work together to find out today's Elite Four would be?

Also, my memory past Little Mac's reveal was slightly foggy. I know Palutena eventually joined the Elite Four, but my memory is still foggy on Isaac. If I misremembered anything. Let me know.

Bandana Waddle Dee, Dixie Kong and Waluigi get my votes.

 

[Garteam]

Time for a little history lesson.

Back in the pre-Smash 4 Days, we had something called the SmashBoards Elite Four.

It was our top five most wanted characters. Like the Elite Four from Pokemon, there was a champion too.

Before the game's reveal, the champion was none other than Mewtwo. With the other four being Mega Man, Ridley, King K. Rool and Little Mac. Those five were decided by a number of extensive community polls done by a fantastic community member by the name of Shorts (RIP King).

When the game and Mega Man was revealed, Palutena joined the Elite Four and replaced Mega Man. When Little Mac was revealed, Isaac replaced him. By the time Palutena was revealed, people stop tracking the Elite Four thing so much. The Gematsu leaks were dominating the conversation.

All of the original SmashBoards Elite Four were eventually included in the franchise. But my question is... What do you think today's Elite Four would be? And should we work together to find out today's Elite Four would be?

Also, my memory past Little Mac's reveal was slightly foggy. I know Palutena eventually joined the Elite Four, but my memory is still foggy on Isaac. If I misremembered anything. Let me know.

I remember when Wolf was added to the Elite Four by some groups following the ESRB Leak. Good times. Simpler times. I will admit that I don't remember who replaced Palutena. I wanna say that the fanbase largely left that spot open until later, but I might be mistaken.

In terms of a modern Elite Four, I think it's a bit tougher because speculation is a bit more decentralized in terms of what the fanbase sees as possible, but I think it would be something like Bandana Waddle Dee, Doom Slayer, Crash, and Geno with Waluigi as the champion. I considered adding Dante and Isaac, but I think the aforementioned five are just a touch more popular.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

It would probably be among the same select characters people wouldn't shut up about during the DLC period as being "locks".

With Waluigi as the Champion or perhaps the Rival.

Waluigi can be Youngster Joey.

 

[SpecterFlower]

Not quite. I see that this Pharaoh Man might have taken a few design elements from Anakaris, like the eye motif, but he’s got a much slimmer frame. They do share some resemblance though.

View attachment 388430
View attachment 388431

I’ve just always loved the ancient Egyptian fantasy aesthetic so it would be really cool to see either of these guys. Extremely unlikely, but really cool.

I honestly doubt either took anything from each other, just based them on the same thing.

 

[Gengar84]

I honestly doubt either took anything from each other, just based them on the same thing.

Yeah, the only reason I’m entertaining the idea is that they’re both Capcom characters. You’re probably right though.

 

[kirbstr]

Waluigi can be Youngster Joey.

I'm ngl the more people that genuinely want Waluigi in smash the worse of an inclusion he becomes.

He would have been a great joke character in Brawl or Smash 4, like a Jigglypuff or Pichu. I think ROB and Duck Hunt were significantly better and more interesting choices.

By the time of Ultimate, too many people were asking for him. Piranha Plant fit better as an unexpected joke mario character.

 

[Golden Icarus]

Also, my memory past Little Mac's reveal was slightly foggy. I know Palutena eventually joined the Elite Four, but my memory is still foggy on Isaac. If I misremembered anything. Let me know.

Oh I vividly remember the elite four conversation coming back strong once the full Smash 4 roster was revealed and was somehow missing our champion, Mewtwo, as well as Ridley and K. Rool, who were maybe the two biggest titans in the elite four. Smashboards mostly agreed that instead of Mewtwo being seen as a champion, it was now just a new elite four of Mewtwo, Ridley, K. Rool and Isaac.

And I very much remember Isaac's inclusion among those three being controversial. Many begrudgingly referred to the new group as "The Big Three, plus Isaac."

 

[Quillion]

I'm ngl the more people that genuinely want Waluigi in smash the worse of an inclusion he becomes.

He would have been a great joke character in Brawl or Smash 4, like a Jigglypuff or Pichu. I think ROB and Duck Hunt were significantly better and more interesting choices.

By the time of Ultimate, too many people were asking for him. Piranha Plant fit better as an unexpected joke mario character.

I guess the only way he'd be surprising at this point is if he goes for an entirely made-up moveset as opposed to the "spin-off amalgamation" that's almost universally wanted among his unironic fans.

Still though, the Mario spin-offs of all kinds do not need a fighter. Dr. Mario should stay a precedent never followed up on.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I'm ngl the more people that genuinely want Waluigi in smash the worse of an inclusion he becomes.

He would have been a great joke character in Brawl or Smash 4, like a Jigglypuff or Pichu. I think ROB and Duck Hunt were significantly better and more interesting choices.

By the time of Ultimate, too many people were asking for him. Piranha Plant fit better as an unexpected joke mario character.

Adding this to the list of bad takes I've seen regarding Waluigi.

Why the hell should Waluigi only be seen as some "unexpected joke"?

 

[Golden Icarus]

I remember when Wolf was added to the Elite Four by some groups following the ESRB Leak. Good times. Simpler times. I will admit that I don't remember who replaced Palutena. I wanna say that the fanbase largely left that spot open until later, but I might be mistaken.

Yeah I don't think the conversation was all that relevant after Palutena's reveal. The ESRB Leak and the prospect of DLC revived the concept.

Also you bringing up Wolf reminded me of something. After the "new Elite Four" of Mewtwo, Ridley, K. Rool and Isaac was formed, people very quickly turned it into "The Forbidden 7" or "The 7 Stars" or something to that effect. From there it was Mewtwo, Ridley, K. Rool, Isaac, Wolf, Dixie Kong...and I think Snake? I'm kind unsure on the last one, but I'm pretty sure that was it. From there the idea slowly fizzled, probably because of how convoluted it had gotten lol

And to answer the original prompt, I think the current four would be Waluigi, Bandana Dee, Geno, Isaac. And if you wanna bump Waluigi up to champion, then I'd add Skull Kid to the lineup. I feel like that bunch is the most emblematic of classic Smash requests that continue to grow.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Reminder that Wario himself only really interacts with Mario in sports/kart/party games

Even his own series barely acknowledges that Wario is supposed to live in the same universe as Mario.

 

[Quillion]

Even his own series barely acknowledges that Wario is supposed to live in the same universe as Mario.

Wario's "series" is essentially a bunch of disconnected games using a Mario-adjacent character to sell.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Time for a little history lesson.

Back in the pre-Smash 4 Days, we had something called the SmashBoards Elite Four.

It was our top five most wanted characters. Like the Elite Four from Pokemon, there was a champion too.

Before the game's reveal, the champion was none other than Mewtwo. With the other four being Mega Man, Ridley, King K. Rool and Little Mac. Those five were decided by a number of extensive community polls done by a fantastic community member by the name of Shorts (RIP King).

When the game and Mega Man was revealed, Palutena joined the Elite Four and replaced Mega Man. When Little Mac was revealed, Isaac replaced him. By the time Palutena was revealed, people stop tracking the Elite Four thing so much. The Gematsu leaks were dominating the conversation.

All of the original SmashBoards Elite Four were eventually included in the franchise. But my question is... What do you think today's Elite Four would be? And should we work together to find out today's Elite Four would be?

Also, my memory past Little Mac's reveal was slightly foggy. I know Palutena eventually joined the Elite Four, but my memory is still foggy on Isaac. If I misremembered anything. Let me know.

Waluigi
Bandana Waddle Dee
Geno
Crash
Master Chief

 

[HyperSomari64]

Wario Land characters like Syrup, Mad Scienstein and Rudy the Clown should be in Mario Kart.
And WarioWare characters should be on a Mario Sports game.
Problem Solved!
Also, There are Rhythm Heaven references in WarioWare, meaning a shared universe.
By proxy, the Tap Girl will be in a Mario spin-off.

 

[Louie G.]

And I very much remember Isaac's inclusion among those three being controversial. Many begrudgingly referred to the new group as "The Big Three, plus Isaac."

Admittedly, I was of this mind at the time lmao. Isaac has grown on me a lot, and I have no qualms listing him among the most popular first parties now, but I do still believe there was a pretty stark fall-off in huge, inescapable community requests after Ridley / K. Rool. Those felt like the last two absolutely massive (pun intended) standing requests. I feel like nowadays, some of the reason people make the false assumption that we're "running out of first parties" or something is because that vocal, grassroots community support just doesn't exist the same way anymore and attention is scattered elsewhere.

Isaac and Geno are like the two characters left who feel like remnants of "old school" Smash community support, with Waluigi being the only character who I feel has come anything close to the degree of inescapability that Ridley / K. Rool have. I suppose I'd liken Geno's controversial status to Ridley, but it feels like that chagrin comes from a different place altogether.

Does it feel at all like we just don't agree on certain things the way we used to anymore? There were always spats and a few bad eggs causing a stir about nonsense, but there were very few people denying that Mega Man, Little Mac or King K. Rool would make a good addition to the series. I can't think of many characters anymore who have a certain universal quality to them like that, everyone seems to provoke some separate argument stemmed from a different perspective on what the roster should be. Anyone who hasn't made it by now or reaches a certain threshold of popularity becomes controversial. And "relevance / recency" went from dominantly an argument about why a character may be less likely, to why a character should be gatekept altogether.

For this reason I'm not sure I really feel right putting many characters into a nice concise box like the "elite four". Waluigi and Geno could be argued for Ridley levels of frequent community talking points and circular arguments, but it doesn't feel like the optimism, creativity or excitement around characters, particularly first party characters, rings true the same way it used to. And when major third parties are factored into the conversation, things just get muddled and those grassroots first party campaigns get buried underneath.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I'm ngl the more people that genuinely want Waluigi in smash the worse of an inclusion he becomes.

He would have been a great joke character in Brawl or Smash 4, like a Jigglypuff or Pichu. I think ROB and Duck Hunt were significantly better and more interesting choices.

By the time of Ultimate, too many people were asking for him. Piranha Plant fit better as an unexpected joke mario character.

Wait, are you saying that R.O.B. and Duck Hunt are joke characters?

 

[Quillion]

Wario Land characters like Syrup, Mad Scienstein and Rudy the Clown should be in Mario Kart.
And WarioWare characters should be on a Mario Sports game.
Problem Solved!
Also, There are Rhythm Heaven references in WarioWare, meaning a shared universe.
By proxy, the Tap Girl will be in a Mario spin-off.

It's such a simple problem, but it's been two decades since Wario Ware started and about 15 years since the last Wario platformer, and Nintendo STILL refuses to solve it.

 

[Gengar84]

I am a bit curious as to how Master Chief has as much support as he does in the Smash community. Halo is a pretty huge and important series in gaming but I wouldn’t think its audience would overlap much with Smash’s. They’re two completely different genres of games and have never been on the same console. I suppose they do have the whole multiplayer thing in common but that’s all I can think of. I’m not really against Master Chief’s inclusion, I just don’t completely get the huge amount of fan support for him. If it were just based on sales and impact, you’d think similarly impactful titles like WarCraft and League of Legends would be right up there with Halo in terms of requests.

 

[HyperSomari64]

It's such a simple problem, but it's been two decades since Wario Ware started and about 15 years since the last Wario platformer, and Nintendo STILL refuses to solve it.

Because Nintendo doesn't want a perfect being like Jimmy T. to be in something inferior like a Mario game.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

I recall hearing somewhere that Wario was essentially made in relation to the original team not really liking to be tethered to making Mario titles. If true, it could mean the separation of Wario and Mario's franchises is an intentional point of reference.

 

[fogbadge]

I am a bit curious as to how Master Chief has as much support as he does in the Smash community. Halo is a pretty huge and important series in gaming but I wouldn’t think its audience would overlap much with Smash’s. They’re two completely different genres of games and have never been on the same console. I suppose they do have the whole multiplayer thing in common but that’s all I can think of. I’m not really against Master Chief’s inclusion, I just don’t completely get the huge amount of fan support for him. If it were just based on sales and impact, you’d think similarly impactful titles like WarCraft and League of Legends would be right up there with Halo in terms of requests.

I certainly agree that Nintendo and Xbox gamers live in separate worlds but the smash community seems to attract a lot of people who aren’t Nintendo fans

 

[BlackSheepOfSmash]

For the next Smash after Ultimate, I thought that Sakurai should a total number of playable characters from that previous game into a very fewer amount by excluding all of those that non-fans thought were too unfit for all previous Smashes like Ultimate due to any reasons. Do you think?

 

[Golden Icarus]

Admittedly, I was of this mind at the time lmao. Isaac has grown on me a lot, and I have no qualms listing him among the most popular first parties now, but I do still believe there was a pretty stark fall-off in huge, inescapable community requests after Ridley / K. Rool. Those felt like the last two absolutely massive (pun intended) standing requests.

As a diehard Isaac bro, I just agree and totally understood the sentiment at the time. I felt similarly annoyed when Palutena just up and replaced Mega Man after he was revealed. Instead of being like “cool we got 1/4 of the Elite Four!” the community instead said “oh no now we need a very distant 5th place to take Mega Man’s spot.”

I am a bit curious as to how Master Chief has as much support as he does in the Smash community. Halo is a pretty huge and important series in gaming but I wouldn’t think its audience would overlap much with Smash’s. They’re two completely different genres of games and have never been on the same console. I suppose they do have the whole multiplayer thing in common but that’s all I can think of. I’m not really against Master Chief’s inclusion, I just don’t completely get the huge amount of fan support for him. If it were just based on sales and impact, you’d think similarly impactful titles like WarCraft and League of Legends would be right up there with Halo in terms of requests.

Mario vs. Master Chief. Nintendo vs. Xbox. The same reason people want Crash to reflect the N64 vs PS1 era, or how Sonic represented Nintendo vs. SEGA.

MC is also cool in his own right, represents the FPS genre, yada yada, but I think it’s mostly the hype of seeing some of the biggest rivalries in the gaming industry play out in Smash.

 

[Perkilator]

For the next Smash after Ultimate, I thought that Sakurai should a total number of playable characters from that previous game into a very fewer amount by excluding all of those that non-fans thought were too unfit for all previous Smashes like Ultimate due to any reasons. Do you think?

BlackSheep what the **** are you talking about

 

[kirbstr]

Adding this to the list of bad takes I've seen regarding Waluigi.

Why the hell should Waluigi only be seen as some "unexpected joke"?

I mean, I'm sure you've heard it before. He's a niche character that only appears in the sports and party games and has no real significance past that. His moveset being based on using a tennis racket or dancing or mario strikers could apply to any of the other filler cast members that recur in those games. Other Mario characters like Kamek, Toad, King Boo, or like even Boom Boom probably have a better case than him.

I'm not personally against him joining smash. It's just an inherently weird pick.

Wait, are you saying that R.O.B. and Duck Hunt are joke characters?

Not in the same way Jigglypuff and Pichu were, but they were definitely surprise characters like GnW. Which is almost like a joke on the fanbase. Wii Fit is similar but iirc Sakurai stated somewhere that he felt like Wii Fit was actually an important inclusion bc of the success of the games and wasn't meant to be one those kinds of characters.

At this point Waluigi wouldn't be much of a surprise with how much he gets requested.

 

[Guynamednelson]

that only appears in the sports and party games

...and Mario Kart, which has a tendency to outsell the mainline Mario games anyway. That combined with Wario's lack of appearances in mainline Mario as well means both the Wahs are spinoff-only to the general public.

 

[Louie G.]

I am a bit curious as to how Master Chief has as much support as he does in the Smash community. Halo is a pretty huge and important series in gaming but I wouldn’t think its audience would overlap much with Smash’s. They’re two completely different genres of games and have never been on the same console.

On a personal level, I grew up around friends who played Xbox. I was a Nintendo kid through and through, but going to friends' houses was the way I would get exposed to whatever else was out there. Halo was a consistent presence and one I grew to appreciate, and just become very familiar with. My friends were diehard Nintendo and Smash fans just as well, so it's never struck me that Halo and Smash would have such vastly different communities or anything. We also played games like Team Fortress 2 or Grand Theft Auto together. We didn't let genre or platform be a limitation.

There's also something of an easily understood appeal about getting another console mascot to fight in Smash. Of course someone like Crash has more understandable overlap and some presence on Nintendo, but for the same reasons people want a "Playstation mascot" in Smash the idea of Chief getting to shake hands with Mario feels important. It's something true to my own experiences with video games growing up, even moreso than Playstation. Couple that with Microsoft already having a strong showing on the roster and discussion of their defacto mascot is quick to follow.

I certainly agree that Nintendo and Xbox gamers live in separate worlds but the smash community seems to attract a lot of people who aren’t Nintendo fans

You have a very close-minded and immature perspective.

 

[ScrubReborn]

entirely made-up moveset

Is exactly why I want Waluigi. Sure he can swing his racket and allat for a few moves, but what I really wanna see is Sakurai take his cheat personality, and go full Captain Falcon mode and make a new toolkit based on his personality. A full "sports man" moveset would be disapointing.

...and Mario Kart, which has a tendency to outsell the mainline Mario games anyway. That combined with Wario's lack of appearances in mainline Mario as well means both the Wahs are spinoff-only to the general public.

Sometimes I like to tell people about a character that has appeared in dozens of games that sell millions (including 10M+ sometimes), has long-lasting and rabid popularity, and has a perfect personality for moveset crafting, and is more known than maybe 80% of the non-Mario roster. Most would be on board with that character appearing and some even ask "Why isn't he in yet?"

It's only when I reveal the character is Waluigi and the million selling games are Mario Kart games that people start to change tune and go "Wait, no, we can't have him, he's not important enough."

 

[Guynamednelson]

And "relevance / recency" went from dominantly an argument about why a character may be less likely, to why a character should be gatekept altogether.

It really feels weird having this develop after the Smash game that added K. Rool and Banjo. Yes, it was for fans campaigning for them, but how is "X is never gonna get in unless you campaign for them" going to bear any fruit when the people who post that stuff will do anything but help fans of Character X get that started?

That doesn't apply to you specifically.

 

[Garteam]

I like Issac and I think he has a reasonably decent shot for the next Smash, but he has always felt like a character who floats just outside of the top echelons of popularity.

In Smash for Wii U/3DS, he never quite reached the levels of Mega Man, Little Mac, Mewtwo, Ridley, etc. In Ultimate's base game, he was a popular first-party, but he was largely overshadowed by Ridley and K. Rool still. For Ultimate's DLC, he felt like one of the most popular first-party choices, but every first-party struggled to gain support during that period.

Presently, I would call Issac the third most popular Nintendo character in terms of requests, but it still seems like there's a massive gap between where he's at and where Waluigi and Bandana Waddle Dee are at. I think the biggest issue is that a lot of people like Golden Sun and Issac in Smash as a concept, but the series' hiatus seems to deter people from publicly supporting Isaac to the same extent they normally would. That then has a cyclical effect where the absence of support makes people feel a new Golden Sun is increasingly unlikely, which just spirals from there.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Why do you say characters that may as well be alternate skins are better than characters that can actually have differences?

A false equivalency.

Why do you assume every Echo has to be as bad as Daisy? Echoes can actually have differences.

That said, it's always silly to think that Clones shouldn't exist anyway.

Clones should exist. They should just also be classified as Echoes.

The fact that we have one official term an two fan terms to describe 3 different versions of "character that uses another character's moves" is dumb as hell.

If a characters moveset isn't unique, they should be an Echo.

Besides what I said above, where it's trying to make characters into Echoes that literally impossible within how they work.

Stop acting like there's rules for how Echoes work! There aren't!

You're like one of those people that keep making up rules for who can't get into Smash based on what hasn't happened yet, and then has to retract their "rule" when a character is added that breaks that rule.

There's only differences that Echoes have had, and differences they haven't had...yet.

 

[Gengar84]

On a personal level, I grew up around friends who played Xbox. I was a Nintendo kid through and through, but going to friends' houses was the way I would get exposed to whatever else was out there. Halo was a consistent presence and one I grew to appreciate, and just become very familiar with. My friends were diehard Nintendo and Smash fans just as well, so it's never struck me that Halo and Smash would have such vastly different communities or anything. We also played games like Team Fortress 2 or Grand Theft Auto together. We didn't let genre or platform be a limitation.

There's also something of an easily understood appeal about getting another console mascot to fight in Smash. Of course someone like Crash has more understandable overlap and some presence on Nintendo, but for the same reasons people want a "Playstation mascot" in Smash the idea of Chief getting to shake hands with Mario feels important. It's something true to my own experiences with video games growing up, even moreso than Playstation. Couple that with Microsoft already having a strong showing on the roster and discussion of their defacto mascot is quick to follow.



You have a very close-minded and immature perspective.

Yeah, the whole mascot thing is a strong argument. I’ve never really been into either Halo or Crash but I can’t deny there’s a certain appeal of settling classic console rivalries through Smash. I think that’s why I’d still be pretty excited for both of them despite my lack of interest or experience with their series. They’re not at the top of my list or anything but I can totally see the appeal once you put it that way.

 

[Schnee117]

Halo is like one of the OG local couch co-op/MP games.
And you can't exactly have James Bond nevermind that Goldeneye doesn't really hold up

Also Haloid. The people want Samus v Chief.

He's a niche character that only appears in the sports and party games and has no real significance past that.

I don't think a constant mainstay in damn near every Mario spin-off can be considered "niche" in any way shape or form, especially when those spin-offs include some of the best selling Nintendo games ever.

 

[kirbstr]

...and Mario Kart, which has a tendency to outsell the mainline Mario games anyway. That combined with Wario's lack of appearances in mainline Mario as well means both the Wahs are spinoff-only to the general public.

Wario isn't just a mario character though. He's got his own thing going on. His games were also huge on the gameboy.

 

[Quillion]

Sometimes I like to tell people about a character that has appeared in dozens of games that sell millions (including 10M+ sometimes), has long-lasting and rabid popularity, and has a perfect personality for moveset crafting, and is more known than maybe 80% of the non-Mario roster. Most would be on board with that character appearing and even ask "Why isn't he in yet?"

It's only when I point out the character is Waluigi and the million selling games are Mario Kart games that people start to go "Wait, no, we can't have him, he's not important enough."

You can say most of the same things for Ring Fit Adventure tbf.

That new IP has more of a franchising future than ARMS and yet almost no one seems to give it a second look. Those who do consider it redundant with the Wii Fit content.

 

[Gengar84]

Halo is like one of the OG local couch co-op/MP games.
And you can't exactly have James Bond nevermind that Goldeneye doesn't really hold up

Also Haloid. The people want Samus v Chief.



I don't think a constant mainstay in damn near every Mario spin-off can be considered "niche" in any way shape or form, especially when those spin-offs include some of the best selling Nintendo games ever.

I mean, there’s Perfect Dark, which is one game my friends and I were all really into on the N64 but I understand it didn’t really have the same global impact as Halo. If Joanna made it in at some point, it would primarily be thanks to RARE’s connection with Nintendo back in the day more-so than its overall popularity. We all loved GoldenEye too but that probably won’t ever make it in for other reasons.

 

[kirbstr]

I don't think a constant mainstay in damn near every Mario spin-off can be considered "niche" in any way shape or form, especially when those spin-offs include some of the best selling Nintendo games ever.

Well yea but a lot of other characters fit that description its not just Waluigi. Toad, Birdo, Boo, Shy Guy, Dry Bones, Kamek, Lakitu, ect