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Yeah, people operate on the assumption that Nintendo and Sakurai’s interests can’t coincidentally align. Sakurai loves SNK, but also… SNK has a few dozen classic NeoGeo titles available to purchase on the eshop. And they’re a long standing Japanese company with a storied history, iconic characters and IPs, not to mention being notoriously generous with their collaborations.
By this logic, Luigi should have never lost his Smash 64 moveset and should be classified as an echo in Ultimate.
it’s not logic it’s more of a gut feeling
I mean echo fighters weren’t a thing back then, I don’t know about Luigi, but there are several clones that easily could have ended up as echo fighters if they were newly added to Ultimate like Dr. Mario, Lucas and Wolf.
That's fair. I do think Octolings are one of the more slept-on newcomers choices though. Splatoon is incredibly popular, but its Smash representation already feels very outdated. Octolings provide a very logical way to add elements from Splatoon 2 and 3 to a character without changing Inkling. It reminds me a lot of Animal Crossing and Isabelle going into Ultimate.
Mario Kart 8's engine is not made for half-pipes, so there's a lot of them that don't have good camera angles when you're going on them. The camera doesn't adapt to your movements like in Wii, so it just feels shoehorned in. Heck, there are some instances of pure track where the camera is awful, most notably the long turn on Rosalina's Ice World where you can't see anything if you so much as graze against the steeper part of the incline.
Yeah I'm pretty sure a lot of Assist trophies were chosen based on the ballot, not just the fighters. My guess is that Krystal, Zero, Alucard, Bomberman, Shovel knight and Knuckles were probably fairly high, and Rathalos might have been add because Monster hunter was pretty requested too.
Yeah Atlus was easily one of the biggest 3ds supporters, so it's really not weird that Nintendo would give them a character.
I've been mulling over this lately, and I think it's brought to light something I've felt for almost as long as Terry released - the whole "Sakurai bias" thing people do to justify his inclusion feels kind of dismissive of him, doesn't it? Like, there's absolutely no denying Sakurai's love for SNK, the man was clearly beaming with enthusiasm to do a loredump on their history - and I'm not even denying that that might've played a part in his inclusion - but whenever people try to explain his inclusion, 90% of the time it is immediately and solely pared down to "Sakurai bias". And when you approach things that way, I think it sends a message, intentionally or not, that his only merit is that Sakurai Liked Him (tm). Like that's the only reason he could ever have been picked, and it's the only way his inclusion makes sense. It reads like an attempt to rationalize the inclusion of a character you're not familiar with, and it never sat right with me. SNK and Terry have plenty of genuine merit and credentials to be included, even from a Nintendo perspective, and constantly pegging it as just "Sakurai bias", no matter how well-intentioned, comes across as very reductive, not only to SNK themselves, but to the character selection process itself. Hell, I feel like even I wound up unintentionally contributing to this with my diatribes on Sakurai's ties to the JP arcade scene
But this is different, right? Luigi demonstrated meaningful gameplay differences from Mario as early as SMB2. They didn't stick around for every game, but the seeds were planted. The two are also designed very deliberately to accentuate silhouette differences. One is short, one is tall. By the time Smash 64 rolled out, this was well established. And while it wasn't as set in stone just yet, the two had distinct personalities that differentiated each other as characters. After Melee, Luigi's Mansion came out and past that point there was no debate to be had about it. These two were night and day and only grew further apart.
In fairness, Splatoon 2 already wasn't out long enough to have too meaningful an influence on the game. And Octolings were promoted to being playable options after the Octo Expansion DLC... which had released the same year Smash Ultimate did. It wouldn't have been very practical for them to respond to this in that short a period of time, since that was Octoling's big breakout evolution to a playable role that made them such a no-brainer in the first place.
I mean if nothing else, Fatal Fury/King of Fights technically invented the concept of a crossover fighting game. Even if SNK's games weren't quality and they didn't put out a notable console like the Neo Geo, that fact alone is worth something.
Retro-ness.
I don't know. They might have to make the Octolings just alts for the Inklings instead of their own fighters.
No one said they can't be different from Inklings. We just said it's very likely that they won't be. They could very well be unique fighters, you know, just like Daisy, Dark Samus, Chrom, etc could.
"Octoling" isn't a unique character though, they're the second option for the player character. Just like Luigi was... and look how he ended up in his Smash debut.
Pretty sure Ocarina of Time is the third most talked about game. YouTube is full of video essay retrospectives about the game, and they actually do numbers. It's also the breaking point of the series arguably.
Master Sword, Hylian Shield, Rupees... yeah no.
This! Imagine if Smash 64 prioritized a unique Luigi and we ended up missing out on Ness or something. Or if Lucina was made unique at the cost of Robin. No thanks. If somebody can realistically and fittingly be a clone... it's a sign that they just should be. Ganondorf (and any cross-series clone, sorry Captain Blaziken fans) is the obvious exception before anyone mentions it.
What a bad comparison, horrible even. Luigi has had differences in his gameplay since SMB2 (Lost Levels and USA), has a totally different personality from Mario and even got his own series post-Melee. Octolings on the other hand are completely interchangeable with Inklings. 1 to 1.
I will always live for BCP shade. Whack her again for me!Mario Kart 8's engine is not made for half-pipes, so there's a lot of them that don't have good camera angles when you're going on them. The camera doesn't adapt to your movements like in Wii, so it just feels shoehorned in. Heck, there are some instances of pure track where the camera is awful, most notably the long turn on Rosalina's Ice World where you can't see anything if you so much as graze against the steeper part of the incline.
If a course has an underwater section, it was there in Tour (even if it wasn't accessible in Tour, and this only applies to a total of two small segments of city courses anyway). If a course has antigrav, it's either shoehorned into a section that doesn't need it (parts of the track where it's already flat anyhow), or applied to an entire course just because (Sky-High Sundae and Rainbow Road). I can count the BCP courses that make actually good use of antigrav on one hand.
A typical usage of anti-gravity between the BCP and Base 8 are objectively are not on the same level.
Even ignoring the mechanical issues, a solid half of the BCP ignores Base 8's artistic direction anyways, and the other half only kind of gets close. The comparison is night and day.
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Smash is the best-case scenario of Everything is Here because it has Sakurai as the director, a man who practically puts himself on Death's Door trying to make his games the best they can be. The concept can easily be floundered if given to a team that does not care as much, and MK8 isn't even going for Everytrack is Here to begin with.
All the Splatoon content in SSBU is based on the first game, in which Octolings are not playable.
, who was decided later to fill a reserved "New Pokémon" spot.
Sakurai shook a magic 8 ball
"Should I put in Shantae as a mii costume?"
How about a changing stage with different games. (Including the western-developed ones)
Probably on the same basis why some Assist Trophies were made Assists. Popular or Notable Characters that couldn't be made Playable characters for whatever reason
Utterly untrue, Sakurai showed some excerpts of the SSBU project plan in a YouTube video and Isabelle was slated to be a derivative of Villager from the start. Here's the video: https://youtu.be/2Iiu1k16Ukc?si=B_MGWx4ok7K0qhrK
Already is.
In the video you're talking about, the project plan revision he shows is dated to November 1st, 2016, with its first revision on December 16th, 2015, which Sakurai has also ofc talked about a bunch elsewhere. Given he mentions in the Nintendo Dream interview that Isabelle was designed from the ground up to be an original character, it makes sense to me that that's how she was proposed initially, and as she was designed, she became a variation on Villager naturally. That's basically what Sakurai says in the interview directly. The project plan would naturally be revised to reflect that, it's a whole year gap and we know Sakurai generally comes up with movesets fairly early based on how he talked about Chrom.
when the stars align and sakurai exists his lucid period
I think the Full game production already started some time in 2022 (Mid-to Late). Probably around the same time that Sakurai started his Youtube Channel and (according to rumors) when Switch 2 Devkits started getting sent out
I think the real question is, at what point up til now do you guys think it started development?
I know they're not playable, but the character exists so what's the point? Dark Samus was never playbale and she's echo, so Octoling could have easily been one too based on their antagonistic role.Time for a history lesson.
Ultimate's design document was finalized on 12/15/15, when the Final Smash Presentation for Wii U/3DS dropped.
The roster was locked in at that point with the sole exception of
Splatoon 2 wouldn't drop until 7/21/17. And the update to add Octolings as playable characters wouldn't happen until 6/14/18.
The "it would’ve happened already" excuse doesn't fly here.
I searched for the interview you're talking about and didn't find anything relating to Isabelle being built completely from the ground up and the similarities coming up naturally. Seems like that's just you theorizing. And the theory is weak because we have evidence of Sakurai slating her as a variation of Villager pretty early on.
Dunno if you've ever played Splatoon (seems like you haven't) but Splatoon 1's Octolings and 2/3's Playable Octolings are much different. It's night and day really.
I've played every Splatoon games, genuinely didn't remember Octoling were very different in 1.
So you're saying Smash 6 could be releasing in 2025? That seems a bit too early to me...would 3 years be enough to make a new smash game with updated HD character models, brand new stage roster....etc? I don't think so honestly...i think this game might need and extra year or two of development, specially because they'll want to have as less cut characters as possible with a decent new amount of newcomers.
Bruh. You cannot be ****ing serious right now.
Ohhh Retro-Ness
2022
I included a link to it in my original post if you didn't see. There's a whole section on Isabelle, but this is the relevant part.
Given that, and that he mentions that if the team had made her too different from Villager she would have been too complex, it seems like she was initially proposed and designed as her own character, and as development began and alterations were made, her being somewhat derivative of Villager was the natural direction her moveset took.
