Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Wonder Smash]

Is it? Because whenever i see crossovers made in the west it's usually just the villains of both things teaming up, or both groups of heroes go up against one villain from the other thing.

An element of an OC exclusive to the crossover almost never comes up

Well, I admit, MKvsDC is the only one that comes to mind right now. It had an original villain that was behind everything. It was a merger of two villains though.

I do like when a villain is merger of two characters from different worlds, like Dark Kahn and Ultron Sigma. It makes their worlds feel truly equal in a way.

 

[Gorgonzales]

It's really cool how in the years since Ultimate a lot of other platform fighters have cropped up and tried their hand at evolving the genre.

There are a lot of cool ideas like Rivals 2's ledge/getup/pummel specials, NASB2's Slime Meter, and Combo Devil's aimable shield and platform clinging. Platform clinging especially is such an intuitive idea that I can't believe hasn't been done sooner.

I really wonder if the next Smash will introduce a slew of new mechanics on the level of Melee (side specials, more directional throws, etc) to further the platform fighter genre. The pessimist in me says they won't really change that much since they're content being at #1, but hearing how aerial smash attacks were considered for Ultimate, I think it is something they'd go for in the case where the next game is a more traditional title.

If anything... please let me at least map tilts and smash attacks to separate buttons so I can stop doing the one I don't want on accident. Having an option to remove stick+A Smashes from my control setup would go a long way; it's hard for me to only tilt the stick a little when trying to do a tilt and I frequently end up doing a Smash instead.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I do like when a villain is merger of two characters from different worlds, like Dark Kahn and Ultron Sigma. It makes their worlds feel truly equal in a way.

Indeed. Although that's not an approach that works for Smash. Because Smash isn't just 2 worlds.

About the closest you could do for Smash would be to have Gilgamesh, but all his swords are from different franchises.
Cloud's Buster Sword
Hero's Sword of Light
Link's Master Sword
Marth's Falchion
Shulk's Monado
Zero's Beam Saber
Hayabusa's Dragon Sword

 

[Kirbeh]

If we're still on the subject of Smash's OC villains/story, if Sakurai's going to keep making them I'd like to see him try making an actual character instead of another abstract boss monster (and maybe even make one that's finally a proper playable character too.)

He and the writing team on Kid Icarus had a lot of fun with Hades and the rest of the cast so I wish he'd try the same for Smash. It is ultimately a problem of incorporating the third parties that likely makes such a thing an issue/incredibly unlikely but to be honest I don't think every character needs to participate in an adventure/story mode. Making a bunch of characters optional or secret "party members" would work just fine imo.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Indeed. Although that's not an approach that works for Smash. Because Smash isn't just 2 worlds.

About the closest you could do for Smash would be to have Gilgamesh, but all his swords are from different franchises.
Cloud's Buster Sword
Hero's Sword of Light
Link's Master Sword
Marth's Falchion
Shulk's Monado
Zero's Beam Saber
Hayabusa's Dragon Sword

You have NO idea how much i want this as a boss.

Lets also lump in Pyra and Mythra in that sword list.

And too list gaming characters that'll never be playable:

Megaman.EXE's Long Sword
Omnimon's Transcendent Sword
Cybuster's Discutter.

 

[superprincess]

Here's a question that's rarely discussed in Smash speculation; what are your ideas for the next game's title? Will they go back to the synonym for fight they used with Melee and Brawl, be boring and just name it after the console like for 3DS/Wii U, do a generic buzzword that kinda fits the game like Ultimate/Special, just do the number 6, or something else?

 

[Laniv]

Here's a question that's rarely discussed in Smash speculation; what are your ideas for the next game's title? Will they go back to the synonym for fight they used with Melee and Brawl, be boring and just name it after the console like for 3DS/Wii U, do a generic buzzword that kinda fits the game like Ultimate/Special, just do the number 6, or something else?

I've always been a fan of Rumble

 

[superprincess]

I've always been a fan of Rumble

That'd be a fun title, I can imagine the announcer saying it and really prolonging that R. "Super Smash Brothers RRRRRUUUMBLE!"

Showdown sounds more epic, if a bit dramatic in my opinion.

 

[Noipoi]

Here's a question that's rarely discussed in Smash speculation; what are your ideas for the next game's title? Will they go back to the synonym for fight they used with Melee and Brawl, be boring and just name it after the console like for 3DS/Wii U, do a generic buzzword that kinda fits the game like Ultimate/Special, just do the number 6, or something else?

Super Smash Bros: Mild Disagreement

 

[Perkilator]

Here's a question that's rarely discussed in Smash speculation; what are your ideas for the next game's title? Will they go back to the synonym for fight they used with Melee and Brawl, be boring and just name it after the console like for 3DS/Wii U, do a generic buzzword that kinda fits the game like Ultimate/Special, just do the number 6, or something else?

Maybe something like “Reborn” to emphasize that this is a new beginning for the franchise? Depending on the changes to the core game, that is.

 

[BritishGuy54]

Here's a question that's rarely discussed in Smash speculation; what are your ideas for the next game's title? Will they go back to the synonym for fight they used with Melee and Brawl, be boring and just name it after the console like for 3DS/Wii U, do a generic buzzword that kinda fits the game like Ultimate/Special, just do the number 6, or something else?

If it’s a soft reboot, or a passing of the torch from Sakurai to someone else, I could see a name like Super Smash Bros. Nova.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Maybe something like “Reborn” to emphasize that this is a new beginning for the franchise? Depending on the changes to the core game, that is.

Reborn is a little on the nose but I get what you're coming from. I'm more of a fan of BritishGuy54 's Nova suggestion.

They've pretty much exhausted all of the good-sounding synonyms for the word "fight" so I'd be down for the sub-titles to be whatever sounds good at this point.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Indeed. Although that's not an approach that works for Smash. Because Smash isn't just 2 worlds.

About the closest you could do for Smash would be to have Gilgamesh, but all his swords are from different franchises.
Cloud's Buster Sword
Hero's Sword of Light
Link's Master Sword
Marth's Falchion
Shulk's Monado
Zero's Beam Saber
Hayabusa's Dragon Sword

This but with Fate's Gilgamesh.

Here's a question that's rarely discussed in Smash speculation; what are your ideas for the next game's title? Will they go back to the synonym for fight they used with Melee and Brawl, be boring and just name it after the console like for 3DS/Wii U, do a generic buzzword that kinda fits the game like Ultimate/Special, just do the number 6, or something else?

Super Smash Bros. Bit of Argy-Bargy.

 

[Kirbeh]

Here's a question that's rarely discussed in Smash speculation; what are your ideas for the next game's title? Will they go back to the synonym for fight they used with Melee and Brawl, be boring and just name it after the console like for 3DS/Wii U, do a generic buzzword that kinda fits the game like Ultimate/Special, just do the number 6, or something else?

New Super Smash Bros. to keep the Mario inspiration going.

Joke aside, I think the most likely options are SSB >insert console name< or SBB >insert generic title like Legends or something<

Obviously they'd have to do something different for the JP version, but I'd honestrly like to see them import the name so to speak. So name the title after the JP version and call it Great Fray: Super Smash Bros.

As far as the logo goes, the "Super Smash Bros." part would still be the primary focus, with Great Fray being on top but much smaller.

quick mockup

no, i don't think they'd add kirby stars, i just placed them there to make it feel less empty

 

[SubspaceJigglypuff]

Super Smash Bros. War.

(Super Smash Bros. Armageddon would go hard af too, but I feel it'd only fit with a game with a darker aesthetic like Brawl)

 

[DarthEnderX]

Lets also lump in Pyra and Mythra in that sword list.

Nah. One sword per franchise. So it's either the Monado, or Pyra.

Here's a question that's rarely discussed in Smash speculation; what are your ideas for the next game's title? Will they go back to the synonym for fight they used with Melee and Brawl, be boring and just name it after the console like for 3DS/Wii U, do a generic buzzword that kinda fits the game like Ultimate/Special, just do the number 6, or something else?

Ultimate Deluxe.

 

[HyperSomari64]

New Super Smash Bros. to keep the Mario inspiration going.

Joke aside, I think the most likely options are SSB >insert console name< or SBB >insert generic title like Legends or something<

Obviously they'd have to do something different for the JP version, but I'd honestrly like to see them import the name so to speak. So name the title after the JP version and call it Great Fray: Super Smash Bros.

As far as the logo goes, the "Super Smash Bros." part would still be the primary focus, with Great Fray being on top but much smaller.

quick mockup
View attachment 386896
no, i don't think they'd add kirby stars, i just placed them there to make it feel less empty

The Japanese name should be Dairantō! Super Smash Brothers, similar to how RE7 was named Biohazard VII Resident Evil.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Here's a question that's rarely discussed in Smash speculation; what are your ideas for the next game's title? Will they go back to the synonym for fight they used with Melee and Brawl, be boring and just name it after the console like for 3DS/Wii U, do a generic buzzword that kinda fits the game like Ultimate/Special, just do the number 6, or something else?

Next game should be called Special in the West and Ultimate in Japan

 

[Ivander]

I am going to do some preemptive precaution speculation, but how would some of you feel about this specific scenario?

Spoiler: We get our new Smash Bros. announcement and one of the first newcomers is revealed to be...

The Sable Prince now playable instead of an Assist Trophy.

And not only that, but for whatever reasoning, alongside the Sable Prince, we get Prince Richard as an Echo Fighter of the Sable Prince.

Knowing that some people will no doubt go, "Look Zelda fans. Your series finally got a new character!", how would some of you, as a Zelda fan, be feeling about this? Now obviously, since this is along the reveal of the game, there are more characters yet to be revealed after those 2 alongside whatever characters are also shown with them, but this is just preemptive speculation on what would your thoughts be on the people who try to do the "funny series crossover joke" regarding Prince Richard and him being in Legend of Zelda Link's Awakening if this kind of scenario were to happen.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

The next Smash Bros will be called...

Super Smash Bros: The One With Waluigi In It

 

[Kirbeh]

I am going to do some preemptive precaution speculation, but how would some of you feel about this specific scenario?

Spoiler: We get our new Smash Bros. announcement and one of the first newcomers is revealed to be...

The Sable Prince now playable instead of an Assist Trophy.

And not only that, but for whatever reasoning, alongside the Sable Prince, we get Prince Richard as an Echo Fighter of the Sable Prince.
View attachment 386901
Knowing that some people will no doubt go, "Look Zelda fans. Your series finally got a new character!", how would some of you, as a Zelda fan, be feeling about this? Now obviously, since this is along the reveal of the game, there are more characters yet to be revealed after those 2 alongside whatever characters are also shown with them, but this is just preemptive speculation on what would your thoughts be on the people who try to do the "funny series crossover joke" regarding Prince Richard and him being in Legend of Zelda Link's Awakening if this kind of scenario were to happen.

I'd be super down.

As a Zelda fan, I wouldn't care, if anything I'd be disappointed if they made no mention or didn't include some nod to the cameo. That aside, I doubt the vast majority of Zelda fans would even know there was a connection at all. But again, my being a Zelda fan doesn't really affect my opinion on this choice.

The real problem here is that it won't happen and that makes me sad because I like these two.

 

[Noipoi]

The next Smash Bros will be called...

Super Smash Bros: The One With Waluigi In It

Super Smash Bros 6 & Waluigi
Super Smash Bros: New Waluigi Mode!
Super Smash Bros + Waluigi's Fury
Super Smash Bros (Featuring Waluigi from the WAvil May Cry series)

 

[cashregister9]

Here's a question that's rarely discussed in Smash speculation; what are your ideas for the next game's title? Will they go back to the synonym for fight they used with Melee and Brawl, be boring and just name it after the console like for 3DS/Wii U, do a generic buzzword that kinda fits the game like Ultimate/Special, just do the number 6, or something else?

Yeah I'd like to see the return of a fight synonym or the idea of brining the Japanese name worldwide

and if it is an Ultimate sequel, I personally like the idea of calling it "Super Smash Bros. Ultimate: [SUBTITLE]" just to see how long we can get that name.

 

[Garteam]

Playing Joy Mech Fight makes me want Sukapon as the next game's WTF character. His hitboxes and animations are so bizarre and he's such a deep cut to 95% of the audience that he's kind of perfect for the role.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I am going to do some preemptive precaution speculation, but how would some of you feel about this specific scenario?

Apathetic.

Super Smash Bros 6 & Waluigi

Jokes aside, I would totally be down with Smash taking after Mario Kart and just switching numbers.

 

[SPEN18]

If we're still on the subject of Smash's OC villains/story, if Sakurai's going to keep making them I'd like to see him try making an actual character instead of another abstract boss monster (and maybe even make one that's finally a proper playable character too.)

He and the writing team on Kid Icarus had a lot of fun with Hades and the rest of the cast so I wish he'd try the same for Smash. It is ultimately a problem of incorporating the third parties that likely makes such a thing an issue/incredibly unlikely but to be honest I don't think every character needs to participate in an adventure/story mode. Making a bunch of characters optional or secret "party members" would work just fine imo.

I like the "abstract boss monster" in the way that it doesn't take too much attention away from the main cast, but also avoids giving favoritism to some existing character by making them the biggest bad. But they could have more fleshed out lore and stuff, sure.

I'd be fine with some characters being optional/secret for the story mode, especially if that's the only way to make it work with such a big cast. And, yeah, to avoid any issues with third parties.

 

[DarthEnderX]

but also avoids giving favoritism to some existing character by making them the biggest bad.

The idea of being worried about favoritism, while a series like FE has 8 characters, and a series like Zelda only has 6, is laughable.

The favoritism ship has sailed. That's a ridiculous reason to keep the big bads in Smash as characters nobody cares about.


If you really want an "abstract boss monster" use Giygas. Or one of Kirby's eldrich horrors.

 

[SPEN18]

The idea of being worried about favoritism, while a series like FE has 8 characters, and a series like Zelda only has 6, is laughable.

The favoritism ship has sailed. That's a ridiculous reason to keep the big bads in Smash as characters nobody cares about.


If you really want an "abstract boss monster" use Giygas. Or one of Kirby's eldrich horrors.

Alleged favoritism in the playable roster is a whole other discussion and frankly not relevant to the scenario of choosing one singular character for this role.

I think the OC just makes more sense thematically. "Favoritism" is not even a precise term to use there, like if they went with Giygas or whoever as the big bad then I don't think that would just be because Sakurai loves Mother or something like that. IMO it's simply more compelling to have an adversary who puts everyone on equal ground motivationally, and who can be designed to give the impression that they're a bigger bad than all the biggest bads of the respective Smash universes.

 

[DarthEnderX]

IMO it's simply more compelling to have an adversary who puts everyone on equal ground motivationally, and who can be designed to give the impression that they're a bigger bad than all the biggest bads of the respective Smash universes.

Or they could just, ya know, look at the characters they've chosen to include in the game, and then decide which one would be the biggest bad, based on things that character does.

You know. Crazy stuff like...using the entire reason you have famous characters to begin with.


Of course, it seems like Sakurai is of the option that Sephiroth is the biggest bad. Since he made Galeem wipe out everyone...and then had Sephiroth wipe out Galeem.

 

[Wonder Smash]

If I'm not mistaken, Giygas is considered a universal threat? Maybe an OC can have a character that's kind of based on him.

Master Hand took elements from Wham Bam Rock and I wouldn't be surprised if Tabuu took elements from another character.

Giygas would be the perfect villain for a crossover event, so I say either him or a character based on him would be just right for the next Smash Bros game.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Ultimately, they don't want to give favoritism to any specific series. It makes sense why the core villain is an OC. This ties things better together overall. It doesn't make sense for a Villain to suddenly be this powerful in a Nintendo Crossover. It's also not a premise where everyone is the "original version". They're some kind of Toy to begin with.

Thus, somebody had to bring them to that world. And it can't be anyone from a normal Nintendo world, otherwise the premise 100% fails. The OC angle was from Smash 64. This doesn't mean every OC is that great. Tabuu was fairly boring due to a major lack of storytelling. On the other hand, it wasn't so bad in Ultimate as we got at least one of them front and center. Besides, as noted, they constantly do this with crossovers. Since there's too many unique franchises, trying to fuse characters into one OC is even less plausible. It was doable in something like Marvel VS Capcom(though admittedly fusing two Marvel characters wasn't all that fair, but the roster is... awkward in Clash of the Superheroes. To be fair, it always had an awkward roster. On the other hand, this worked rather well with Mortal Kombat VS DC Universe due to a better roster distribution).

As I noted before, Tabuu is the only one that's kind of... weird. Whereas the others make sense. Giga Bowser is a special boss in Adventure Mode that is a unique transformation to Smash Bowser, but is explicitly a different Bowser to justify it. He's not nearly as bad as Tabuu, if only due to borrowing from the Giant Bowser design. Crazy Hand is the destroyer of the universe, whereas Master Hand is the creator. Tabuu has no clear point to him and just kind of exists. And that's not counting the other random bosses, though frankly the normal ones(I.E. Ridley) also came out of nowhere in the SSE. Due to a major lack of storytelling, they just existed. Only the playable characters generally had some story to them, along with a bit of Master Hand and slightly on Tabuu(and the OC bosses also had a tiny bit of story behind them too, more than the other kinds of bosses, who existed for no reason other than to exist).

Ultimate on the other hand justifies every single boss battle by them being a unique entity in the Smash Universe(which we already knew since Giga Bowser, and even moreso when Samus and Zero Suit Samus split apart). It goes with a clear storytelling of "they're all specific characters in a story, including those who should theoretically be the same person. But they're not, because we're looking at the full character aspect. Also, yes, a species has individual members that count as different people. Don't question it too much". It's convoluted, but that's how toys are anyway. You buy a toy of the same guy? Different figure, etc. It's really the same concept come to life. The only time they don't justify anything is the "8 or so costumes" angle. And that's mostly just... toys.

As for Dharkon and Galeem, they share some factors with Crazy Hand and Master Hand respectively. They're like Titans to their Gods, if you will. They both seek to destroy overall, but Dharkon just wants to obliterate it all and create corrupted versions. Whereas Galeem has the same goal, but to make it in his own image(and is called the Lord of Light to boot). So it's basically an evil version of Dark VS Light here. Master Hand VS Crazy Hand isn't much better overall, but they both actually do become heroic later on. Ultimate ensured that, but also, Master Hand was on the Heroes' side in the SSE overall. Crazy Hand for whatever reason didn't appear in the SSE, but that's probably due to a lack of time or story ideas.

 

[Will]

If I'm not mistaken, Giygas is considered a universal threat?

Only in Mother 2. He’s just an alien feller in Mother 1.

He could be reinvented like the way they’ve reinvented Pit for Brawl. I’ve always wanted detail art for Mother 1 Giygas because… look at it, dude. What IS he?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I'm honestly fine with the Big Bad being an OC if the bulk of the story mode is against actual Nintendo (or third party) figures. Brainwashed/compelled/controlled/etc ones sure, but ones from the series themselves. Of the many issues I had with Subspace Emissary, one of the biggest problems was that beyond the original mooks as the constant enemies meant a waste of a Nintendo crossover was that they ultimately lessened the impact of Tabuu. A strange, ultimately outworldy force just doesn't feel as significant when you've essentially been dealing with them for much of the playtime.

If anything, if the theme was that of an evil force poisoning the Nintendo universe, the bulk of the mode should have been the known first party enemies that would become more corrupted and altered near the end of it and finally getting the weird Subspace Army right before you face Tabuu to heighten the tension.

 

[Zerp]

The favoritism ship has sailed. That's a ridiculous reason to keep the big bads in Smash as characters nobody cares about.

Agreed, but I do think "characters nobody cares about" fit very well here, they just don't have to be OCs. Everyone in Smash is a toy given life, and toys exist to bring joy to their owners. If you're a toy, wouldn't nobody caring about your existence be perfect motivation in of itself? And you know, Smash is a fighting game, it's not hard to guess what the "players" want. If you aren't one of those "playable" ones that already bring joy, why NOT cause endless conflict on your own? If that makes for a story, then that's simply what the player wanted. If you don't cause said conflict, then you have no purpose in this world and will just be forgotten. Would that truly be acceptable? Causing violence and suffering might be bad, but it's the only way they'll ever remember to play with you.


Granted I doubt Smash would ever go remotely close to that route since that'd require a narrative beyond "there's bad guy, beat up bad guy" to work well, but you get the point.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Only in Mother 2. He’s just an alien feller in Mother 1.

He's still incredibly powerful though in Mother 1. To the extent that the only way to defeat him is to trigger him into having a mental breakdown so he defeats himself. Physical combat is just as useless against him in Mother 1 as it is in Earthbound.

He could be reinvented like the way they’ve reinvented Pit for Brawl. I’ve always wanted detail art for Mother 1 Giygas because… look at it, dude. What IS he?

I mean...real talk. He's just Mewtwo.

It's been confirmed that a lot of the people that made Earthbound went on to work at Gamefreak. And in a lot of ways, Pokemon is almost a spiritual successor to Mother.

Mewtwo itself is almost practically meant to be a direct reference to Mother 1 Giygas. Both visually, and lorewise.

 

[Oracle Link]

I always like to imagine what a Castle of Darkness where all the Smash villains hang out would be like.

Ganondorf, Dracula, Mother Brain and Andross are in the throne room, standing around a map of the WoL, planning their next invasion.

There's an arena where Meta Knight, Dark Pit, Shadow and Bass are fighting duels to see who's the strongest.

In the bar, Wolf, Wario, Waluigi and Majima are playing poker. King Dededede and K. Rool are gorging themselves on a feast.

Down in the hangar, Dr. Wily and Eggman are making modifications to the Wily Machine and the Death Egg Robot. Liquid Snake is waxing Metal Gear REX.

Ridley and Firebrand are perched above the main gate, watching for intruders to descend upon. Rathalos is asleep on the roof.

And at the center of the castle, Giygas sits contained within the Devil's Machine. Sephiroth and Mewtwo sit nearby, studying the entity...

I mean dedede would probably say something like:
"Oh this castle isnt good enough for me! what are you saying sephiroth? Im not evil and thats why i wanna go?! Well im for sure kirbys royal nemesis! Anyways this place is for chumps bye bye! Come My Waddle Dees!"
Than Darkmatter comes and is like:
"do you have a space for me? im lonely and i wanna have evil friends pls!"

 

[Oracle Link]

Here's a question that's rarely discussed in Smash speculation; what are your ideas for the next game's title? Will they go back to the synonym for fight they used with Melee and Brawl, be boring and just name it after the console like for 3DS/Wii U, do a generic buzzword that kinda fits the game like Ultimate/Special, just do the number 6, or something else?

Sorry for double posting!
I have multiple names but one i like is Super Smash Bros Dawn as in a new dawn!
After all ultimate is definitly a conclusion in some way so no matter what dawn fits well!

 

[Will]

He's still incredibly powerful though in Mother 1. To the extent that the only way to defeat him is to trigger him into having a mental breakdown so he defeats himself. Physical combat is just as useless against him in Mother 1 as it is in Earthbound.

Ganondorf can’t be harmed nor defeated by anything other than the Master Sword in the Zelda lore.

And yet we’ve been gimping his recovery for almost 23 years.

I mean...real talk. He's just Mewtwo.

He’s Mewtwo with twice the trauma and twice the amount of powers. You’re only selling me more on the idea.

 

[Gorgonzales]

I have multiple names but one i like is Super Smash Bros Dawn as in a new dawn!

Rise of the Dawn of the War of the Planet of the Smash Bros.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Super Smash Bros Genesis






(or as it's known in Japan, Super Smash Bros Mega Drive).