Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Ivander]

Would you calm down? I never said it wasn't ok for Fate to be in Smash so why are you getting so worked up over the hypothetical notion that Nintendo could potentially find issue in representing a series with ties to porn in their crossover game?

I actually have no problem myself with Fate in Smash even if I find Saber herself boring as Hell and would prefer Shirou being the fighter while able to summon Saber to attack.

And for what it's worth, I see a potential issue on Nintendo's end when it comes to Mortal Kombat too, so no need to act like I'm personally singling Fate out just to spite you.

I'm just looking from a realistic standpoint that the eroge aspect could be (and I repeat, COULD BE; not definitely would be) a potential obstacle regardless of how many times you want to scream in my face that "the porn is tame and not in re-releases".



Having series that have used artists with a history of NSFW works outside the context of the series is not the same as having a series that literally has had NSFW work present in the game itself.

It shouldn't have to be explained what the degree of separation is here.


If you're going to be this angry and irrational over the idea that there could be an issue present then I'm dropping the conversation here.

It's alot less angry and more.....frustratingly confuzzled. It did go a bit off-topic with bringing up Mortal Kombat instead of bringing back up Bayonetta, but it's more like, "Bayonetta.......Bayonetta is over there......she practically checks all those red flags regarding violence, brutality, sexuality, and whatnot and that didn't stop her...why are a couple of Fate scenes that never got brought back a more damning factor on their chances?"

Not too long ago, people were arguing about Doomslayer's chances with the argument being around Doom being a bloody and gory game and Bayonetta was brought up because she arguably does the same, if not worse things compared to what Doomslayer has done. Which makes it all the more wild that Bayonetta managed to get into Smash Bros. in the first place with how many red flags Bayonetta had.
I'll give you one thing. I did forget about Hollow Ateraxia that followed after Fate/Stay Night, although much like the first game, they were taken out in the re-releases.

Also, in Bayonetta, doesn't Rodin have an attack during his Superboss fight in Bayonetta that implies he just does the deed with Bayonetta, with a very aftersex-esque ending? And it comes back in Bayonetta 2?

 

[superprincess]

Going by that, Shadow would be more likely for being an Assist since Brawl, to which I say

I'm mostly talking about ATs that give you the illusion that the character actually joins the battle, like Waluigi, Krystal, Rodin, Bomberman, Isaac etc. Shadow just kinda stands in the background.

I do feel like he has some chances to be an echo fighter with altered animations like Daisy or Dark Samus next time. I'll never forget how much of a boost Shadow support got in the post-echoes era.

 

[dream1ng]

What about Mario? he's a human too.

EDIT: Sorry, i left this comment on the backburner.

Well how people define it seems to vary, so some would include him and some wouldn't. This was a pretty old comment, but I believe my point was how the boundaries of its definition weren't well defined.

I think it was more along the lines of ‘recently popular’ IP. Animal Crossing had been around since the GameCube, but it only seemed to become BIG by the 3DS with New Leaf.

It’s funny how the same thing happened to Fire Emblem when it made the jump to the 3DS.

People act like this about Animal Crossing but by Wild World it was already moving like 12 million units. That's massive, and only about a mil less than New Leaf.

It would've absolutely received a character in Brawl had Sakurai been of a different disposition towards its potential.

Thanks for the welcome guys :D

I've noticed a trend when it comes to newcomers in every Smash game, and especially Ultimate. It's been briefly touched upon here, but most newcomers each time had significant content in the series before their playable roles. In fact, every single base first party newcomer in Ultimate had significant content in SSB4. So our newcomers for next round may be hiding in plain sight.

This is why I think Knuckles is a likelier Sonic character than someone like Tails, or why Doom Slayer may edge out Master Chief as a FPS newcomer.

1) Tails also had significant content, if a costume counts as significant, which I guess it does, because that's the most some of the Ultimate newcomers had in 4
2) Doom Slayer and Chief aren't even the same series. There were plenty of third-parties who had nothing in Smash 4, because their series weren't there yet. I think the only third-party whose series preceded the character was Kazuya.
3) I assume you're only talking about characters that existed for Smash 4, because Incineroar is not in that game.
4) There is precedent of first-party characters who existed at the time of the last game getting in despite not having any role in the previous game.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

A happy 16th anniversary to Super Smash Bros Brawl. I had great memories playing this game as a kid, especially the Subspace Emissary.

 

[superprincess]

1) Tails also had significant content, if a costume counts as significant, which I guess it does, because that's the most some of the Ultimate newcomers had in 4
2) Doom Slayer and Chief aren't even the same series. There were plenty of third-parties who had nothing in Smash 4, because their series weren't there yet. I think the only third-party whose series preceded the character was Kazuya.
3) I assume you're only talking about characters that existed for Smash 4, because Incineroar is not in that game.
4) There is precedent of first-party characters who existed at the time of the last game getting in despite not having any role in the previous game.

1) Tails isn't an AT though. He does have content, but it's less significant/prevalent than Knuckles' is.
2) I know they aren't, I'm just saying why I think Doom Slayer might get an edge. Not saying this is a hard rule, especially for third parties.
3) Of course, characters who didn't exist at the time of the previous game such as Ike, Lucario, or even Rosalina really, don't count.
4) There's some exceptions of course! I didn't state this is a hard rule, just a little trend I've noticed, especially in later entries.

 

[Will]

A happy 16th anniversary to Super Smash Bros Brawl. I had great memories playing this game as a kid, especially the Subspace Emissary.

View attachment 383760

The Brawl box art goes a lot harder than I remember. I think it might even rival the Western Melee box art.

Ultimate’s is a solid 3rd place, sorry

 

[fogbadge]

A happy 16th anniversary to Super Smash Bros Brawl. I had great memories playing this game as a kid, especially the Subspace Emissary.

View attachment 383760

and we were stuck waiting ages on it over here

 

[HyperSomari64]

Well how people define it seems to vary, so some would include him and some wouldn't. This was a pretty old comment, but I believe my point was how the boundaries of its definition weren't well defined.

• He is an Homo Nintendonus (according to some character guide from the 90s, but im's sure this is no longer canon or it was just a joke)
• Some of the power-ups involves disguising as an animal, which is common in the furry community.

Yeah, this is moving the goal spot, but the italian plumber is something beyond from a normal human being.
/j

 

[dream1ng]

1) Tails isn't an AT though. He does have content, but it's less significant/prevalent than Knuckles' is.
2) I know they aren't, I'm just saying why I think Doom Slayer might get an edge. Not saying this is a hard rule, especially for third parties.
3) Of course, characters who didn't exist at the time of the previous game such as Ike, Lucario, or even Rosalina really, don't count.
4) There's some exceptions of course! I didn't state this is a hard rule, just a little trend I've noticed, especially in later entries.

1) I know, but you said all base Ultimate first-party newcomers had significant content in 4, yet K. Rool, Inkling and Daisy's biggest roles were costumes.

Also, our Mario ATs have been Waluigi, Hammer Bro, Lakitu and Thwomp, but our characters have been Bowser Jr, Rosalina, Daisy and Piranha Plant. So who is the AT doesn't necessarily confer priority. On one had we'd probably get Alucard next, on the other, do you really think we'd get Guile over Chun-Li?

2) But look at the non-playable third-parties we got last time: Virtua Fighter, Monster Hunter, Geno, Tales, Tower of Druaga, Tekken, Rayman, etc. Only one actually translated to a character the following time. There's no causation, and not even much correlation.

4) So you don't have high hopes for Bandana Dee, then?

 

[Gengar84]

I'm mostly talking about ATs that give you the illusion that the character actually joins the battle, like Waluigi, Krystal, Rodin, Bomberman, Isaac etc. Shadow just kinda stands in the background.

I do feel like he has some chances to be an echo fighter with altered animations like Daisy or Dark Samus next time. I'll never forget how much of a boost Shadow support got in the post-echoes era.

While I don’t think anything is ever a sure thing, I think having pre-existing content in Smash can only help. I feel like if character gets content like an assist trophy or Mii outfit, it’s often because they were a popular request but weren’t able to make it as a playable character at the time for one reason or another (most often being limited development time). If the character remains popular by the time the next game’s roster is chosen, I think they are given extra consideration. That doesn’t mean they will necessarily be chosen this time either, but I think it helps. That’s why I have some confidence that Zero might make it as playable in the next game since he had both a Mii outfit and an Assist Trophy.

 

[superprincess]

1) I know, but you said all base Ultimate first-party newcomers had significant content in 4, yet K. Rool, Inkling and Daisy's biggest roles were costumes.

Also, our Mario ATs have been Waluigi, Hammer Bro, Lakitu and Thwomp, but our characters have been Bowser Jr, Rosalina, Daisy and Piranha Plant. So who is the AT doesn't necessarily confer priority. On one had we'd probably get Alucard next, on the other, do you really think we'd get Guile over Chun-Li?

2) But look at the non-playable third-parties we got last time: Virtua Fighter, Monster Hunter, Geno, Tales, Tower of Druaga, Tekken, Rayman, etc. Only one actually translated to a character the following time. There's no causation, and not even much correlation.

4) So you don't have high hopes for Bandana Dee, then?

1) Daisy was a Peach alt, had numerous references in Peach and Rosalina's classic mode endings, and had not one, not two, not three, but four trophies between both versions of SSB4. K. Rool was just a Mii costume sure, but Splatoon was one of the only (or the only) non playable franchise to get a trophy as DLC.
I get that ATs aren't always the ones prioritized. As you mentioned, look at what has happened to Waluigi, Lyn, Skull Kid, etc.
2) True, this theory only really applies to first parties.
4) Not really. I think Sakurai puts him on the same level as Toad, who also is "long overdue" but not playable.

While I don’t think anything is ever a sure thing, I think having pre-existing content in Smash can only help. I feel like if character gets content like an assist trophy or Mii outfit, it’s often because they were a popular request but weren’t able to make it as a playable character at the time for one reason or another (most often being limited development time). If the character remains popular by the time the next game’s roster is chosen, I think they are given extra consideration. That doesn’t mean they will necessarily be chosen this time either, but I think it helps. That’s why I have some confidence that Zero might make it as playable in the next game since he had both a Mii outfit and an Assist Trophy.

Yeah, pre existing content sure helps, no matter what form it takes. I'm sure a lot of Ultimate's AT and Mii suits will end up on the playable roster next time.

Anyways, besides newcomers, do you guys think any significant veteran touchups will happen? The fanbase clamors for them every time, but they rarely—if ever—happen. The most significant ones have been SSB4 Pit and Bowser, and SSBU Link. But even those aren't of the scale that the fandom usually proposes. With cuts being sort of an inevitability, I can only hope that the veterans will be freshened up a little next time.

 

[CannonStreak]

Never mind. I don't think what I said needed to be said.

 

[fogbadge]

1) Daisy was a Peach alt, had numerous references in Peach and Rosalina's classic mode endings, and had not one, not two, not three, but four trophies between both versions of SSB4. K. Rool was just a Mii costume sure, but Splatoon was one of the only (or the only) non playable franchise to get a trophy as DLC.
I get that ATs aren't always the ones prioritized. As you mentioned, look at what has happened to Waluigi, Lyn, Skull Kid, etc.
2) True, this theory only really applies to first parties.
4) Not really. I think Sakurai puts him on the same level as Toad, who also is "long overdue" but not playable.

you missed 3

 

[Guynamednelson]

1) Tails isn't an AT though. He does have content, but it's less significant/prevalent than Knuckles' is.
2) I know they aren't, I'm just saying why I think Doom Slayer might get an edge. Not saying this is a hard rule, especially for third parties.
3) Of course, characters who didn't exist at the time of the previous game such as Ike, Lucario, or even Rosalina really, don't count.
4) There's some exceptions of course! I didn't state this is a hard rule, just a little trend I've noticed, especially in later entries.

I think your theory would hold more weight if NPC/Mii Costume models were more commonly reused for fighters. The only verified example of this happening is Chrom, and that's because Robin's victory animation with him meant his model had to be close to fighter quality anyway.

 

[NintenRob]

I do think there's some credence to looking at non playable characters who got special treatment in the last game to get an idea on who's on the teams radar. It doesn't guarantee anything obviously, but at least you know they're known about.

 

[Noipoi]

I do think there's some credence to looking at non playable characters who got special treatment in the last game to get an idea on who's on the teams radar. It doesn't guarantee anything obviously, but at least you know they're known about.

COUGHSansCOUGH

 

[dream1ng]

1) Daisy was a Peach alt, had numerous references in Peach and Rosalina's classic mode endings, and had not one, not two, not three, but four trophies between both versions of SSB4. K. Rool was just a Mii costume sure, but Splatoon was one of the only (or the only) non playable franchise to get a trophy as DLC.

I get that ATs aren't always the ones prioritized. As you mentioned, look at what has happened to Waluigi, Lyn, Skull Kid, etc.

Well, I'm just going by what you said. That all the base first-parties had a significant appearance. So I counter that a character had an appearance on par with some of these "significant appearances", which was downplayed because a different character had a more significant role, and now things like references in classic modes are being invoked, which are even less significant than the costume.

First we were gauging the most significant role, and now we've shifted the goalposts to the number of roles. This is... somewhat all over the map. If you want to argue that an AT is more significant than a costume, I can get behind that, but I'm not sure it helps your overall claim.

you missed 3

I dropped point 3 because it had been resolved earlier.

I do think there's some credence to looking at non playable characters who got special treatment in the last game to get an idea on who's on the teams radar. It doesn't guarantee anything obviously, but at least you know they're known about.

That's true, but being known is... basically the bare minimum of what's required.

If you look at the total pool that character came from, whether AT or costume or whatever, the amount of those characters who didn't get upgraded is so much vaster (and for third-parties, the number who came from totally new series has generally been so much higher), that it doesn't seem... hugely reliable.

I mean even now there are a number of commonly speculated characters who either have other non-playable characters in their series with more significant content, they themselves are just a spirit, or, for third-parties, aren't in the game at all.

Were the reverse true, that not having a role meant they absolutely didn't know about them, then, yeah ofc, it'd be pretty crucial.

 

[BuckleyTim]

So it's pretty much all but guaranteed that tonight's weekly event will be the Melee tournament rerun, right?

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I do think that some assist trophies could have high chances of getting in because some AT are chosen because they were popular in the first place. Sure there's some odd one here and there like Thwomp and Lakitus, but my guess is that some of them like Isaac and Krystal were chosen based on overall popularity, but were not feasible because of Ultimate low amounts of newcomers. If anything we know that an Arms rep was considered for base game but because of bad timing he couldn't, yet Spring Man was an assist in base game. The same goes for Alucard who was momentarily considered because of his popularity, and end up being an assist trophies. For me this shows that at least some Assist trophies are probably characters that he would want to be playable or were considered. Takamaru was also considered for Smash 4 and end up being an assist trophies.

 

[Louie G.]

I do think there's some credence to looking at non playable characters who got special treatment in the last game to get an idea on who's on the teams radar. It doesn't guarantee anything obviously, but at least you know they're known about.

Yeah, I really think some people are splitting hairs on this - obviously it does not apply to every single newcomer or every single costume / assist trophy, but I think it's worth noting that like... Isaac, for example, went from literally nothing in Smash 4 to an overhauled AT role, a mii costume and adding a number of Golden Sun spirits (some of the most of any nonplayable series). It's not a surefire thing that Isaac will be playable next game, not at all, but being granted such positive treatment in Ultimate surely doesn't hurt his case. Especially when compared to the previous game.

And Knuckles' fairly unprompted promotion to AT does imply some additional consideration as well. It also has him dishing out a fair amount of unique moves, so he kind of has his own mini-moveset which is always cool to see. Maybe not as strong a case, but I think it's at least something to consider if asking who the next Sonic character could be.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

The Brawl box art goes a lot harder than I remember. I think it might even rival the Western Melee box art.

Ultimate’s is a solid 3rd place, sorry

Nah nah you got a point, Ultimates art isnt bad but you can tell the artist isnt used to drawing a lot of these characters so it feel kinda "Fanart-y"

 

[CannonStreak]

I do like the idea of, and think there are some characters that should go from Assist Trophy to playable character. I also do think some characters who are Mii costumes could use the same treatment. I personally like Isaac, Dillon from Dillon's Rolling Western, Sukapon, Takamaru and Krystal should be playable, though I am not sure about Shadow. I think he is a bit overrated, even if that does not hurt his chances.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Which characters does everyone think are the top runners this time around?

Ryu Hayabusa
Doom Slayer

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I just feel out of all the Sonic characters Shadow is the easiest pick to be an echo, sure Tails and Knuckles share a lot of moves with Sonic too but Shadow also has the same body shape, which would make him easier to develop on top of him being extremely popular among Sonic fans.

It's such a no brainer that im left wondering why he wasnt picked.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

A bit of advice, superprincess: Try not to have debates with dream1ng like this too often. He seems to have a bad tendency to "correct" others and be annoying about it, too, whether it be about opinions, facts or whatever. Plus, he is too persistent about it often, even when what he says is needless. He also seems to try and dash hopes, too.

Well at least he doesn't hold grudges like someone I know.

Geez dude. Stuff like this doesn't help.

 

[CannonStreak]

Well at least he doesn't hold grudges like someone I know.

Geez dude. Stuff like this doesn't help.

Okay, for the record, I don't hold grudges. Secondly, while that could have been worded better, or even left out, I was trying not to bash him, and I was just trying to offer some advice to a newcomer based on experience. But still, I did not mean harm at all, okay?

I will say that I apologize if I somehow said something harmful, but in my eyes, this was advice to a newcomer with some experience rather than an opportunity to bash or criticize someone.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

There is precedent of characters with lots of content being included in future games. As others have said, it's not a hard rule, but it's a commonly stated pattern.

That said, some characters get a lot of costume and we're never included. Waluigi is the prime example, with an AT and a costume. Another prominent example would be the Golden Sun and Rhythm Heaven franchises. They have lots of spirits/music and Isaac is an AT, but they haven't been included yet.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Results are honestly inconclusive on whether or not having representation in Smash through non-playable means actually boosts anyone's chances for the future.

It really depends on the character and context in question.

 

[Speed Weed]

Okay, for the record, I don't hold grudges. Secondly, while that could have been worded better, or even left out, I was trying not to bash him, and I was just trying to offer some advice to a newcomer based on experience. But still, I did not mean harm at all, okay?

I will say that I apologize if I somehow said something harmful, but in my eyes, this was advice to a newcomer with some experience rather than an opportunity to bash or criticize someone.

"trying not to bash or criticize"

He seems to have a bad tendency to "correct" others and be annoying about it

he is too persistent

even when what he says is needless.

Yeah. Uh huh. Sure.

 

[CannonStreak]

"trying not to bash or criticize"



Yeah. Uh huh. Sure.

I meant none of that in a bad way. I was trying to be more neutral about it. I, at least, probably should not have used the word annoying at least, but I was stating as I experienced talking to him by experience.

Can we drop this now, please?

Results are honestly inconclusive on whether or not having representation in Smash through non-playable means actually boosts anyone's chances for the future.

It really depends on the character and context in question.

I do agree. I think that representation in Smash, even if they appear as non-playable, would not be enough to get a character playable.

 

[superprincess]

Woah, I really wasn't trying to stir up such a heated conversation with my little "lots of content -> playable" pipeline observation. As I already said & someone else repeated, it's not meant to be a hard rule. Just an interesting tidbit regarding some characters. That's all ♡

Anyways, let's change the topic! I've got an interesting question. Since ATs have taken on a bit of a "consolation prize" role (for characters like Krystal, Isaac and presumably others like Bomberman and Knuckles), do you guys think they could be a bigger deal in the next entry? Perhaps a system that lets you summon an AT of your choice, sorta like MK1's Kameo characters. They could have different moves mapped to different buttons, and maybe show up in win screens! Them being selectable in a menu and summonable via actual inputs would throw a bone to fans of characters who just missed the cut.

 

[CannonStreak]

Woah, I really wasn't trying to stir up such a heated conversation with my little "lots of content -> playable" pipeline observation. As I already said & someone else repeated, it's not meant to be a hard rule. Just an interesting tidbit regarding some characters. That's all ♡

Anyways, let's change the topic! I've got an interesting question. Since ATs have taken on a bit of a "consolation prize" role (for characters like Krystal, Isaac and presumably others like Bomberman and Knuckles), do you guys think they could be a bigger deal in the next entry? Perhaps a system that lets you summon an AT of your choice, sorta like MK1's Kameo characters. They could have different moves mapped to different buttons, and maybe show up in win screens! Them being selectable in a menu and summonable via actual inputs would throw a bone to fans of characters who just missed the cut.

If you meant anything I said, by any chance, don't worry about it yourself. I should take some blame, even though I thought, and still think saying some things like I said, as they were from my experience and was being used to try to offer some advice, would not be bad. But yeah, I should take some blame.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Woah, I really wasn't trying to stir up such a heated conversation with my little "lots of content -> playable" pipeline observation. As I already said & someone else repeated, it's not meant to be a hard rule. Just an interesting tidbit regarding some characters. That's all ♡

Anyways, let's change the topic! I've got an interesting question. Since ATs have taken on a bit of a "consolation prize" role (for characters like Krystal, Isaac and presumably others like Bomberman and Knuckles), do you guys think they could be a bigger deal in the next entry? Perhaps a system that lets you summon an AT of your choice, sorta like MK1's Kameo characters. They could have different moves mapped to different buttons, and maybe show up in win screens! Them being selectable in a menu and summonable via actual inputs would throw a bone to fans of characters who just missed the cut.

I don't think that could happen unless Smash gets a major rehaul.

But if we're going to get a rehaul. Now is the time.

 

[Sucumbio]

Woah, I really wasn't trying to stir up such a heated conversation with my little "lots of content -> playable" pipeline observation. As I already said & someone else repeated, it's not meant to be a hard rule. Just an interesting tidbit regarding some characters. That's all ♡

Anyways, let's change the topic! I've got an interesting question. Since ATs have taken on a bit of a "consolation prize" role (for characters like Krystal, Isaac and presumably others like Bomberman and Knuckles), do you guys think they could be a bigger deal in the next entry? Perhaps a system that lets you summon an AT of your choice, sorta like MK1's Kameo characters. They could have different moves mapped to different buttons, and maybe show up in win screens! Them being selectable in a menu and summonable via actual inputs would throw a bone to fans of characters who just missed the cut.

I like this idea but I think if they go so far as to give them actual buttons and animations that are controllable then I think really they would just go the extra step of being playable.

 

[NintenRob]

Some characters who personally stand out to me as getting special treatment in past games

Isaac is the golden child of this. He got a huge amount of content. Massive update to his assist trophy, Mii Costume. Bunch of Spirits (including his own being upgradeable to a legendary spirit). Feels like they acknowledged his popularity.

Skull Kid is similarish. Though his Assist Trophy remained untouched, we did the get new Assist Trophy with the moon (which people thought his assist trophy should've done to begin with) and a full blown Mini Costume despite Majora's Mask already being it's own Mini Hat. Again acknowledged his popularity. An upgradable to legendary Spirit is also there.

Shadow stands out to me a little too. Yeah no Mii Costume. But his assist trophy got an updated animation despite being untouched between Brawl and Wii U.


I'm sure there's others but that's my standouts

 

[superprincess]

I don't think that could happen unless Smash gets a major rehaul.

But if we're going to get a rehaul. Now is the time.

Yeah, it'd be a lot of work to balance. For it to work and be manageable in Smash, I guess it'd have to be toned down significantly from MK1's version, perhaps with each summon having one signature move? That way, every character gets access to just one extra move. Some of them could just be straight up physical moves, some could be projectiles, command grabs, movement-related, etc. But none would cover multiple options at once. They'd also be kept in check by a meter/cooldown system.

They'd admittedly require a rework of the already existing ATs too, perhaps exclusively for this mode. Some of the overtuned ones (Tiki, Rodin, Sheriff) would have to be nerfed significantly, while the invincible ones (Squid Sisters, Devil, Nintendog) I assume wouldn't be selectable at all, staying exclusive to casual item matches.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I like this idea but I think if they go so far as to give them actual buttons and animations that are controllable then I think really they would just go the extra step of being playable.

Neither Smash's ATs nor MK1's Kameos have even half the animations needed for a full fighter.

That said there's so many attack animations the Smash team has made between all the AT's and fighters over Smash 4 and Ultimate that it's why I had this theory on how a Booster Course Pass for SSBU could work if there's no mobile Smash

While Smash doesn't have a mobile game it can use to double its roster (and even if it did, the pass probably wouldn't be that big and you'd still have to give the fighters from it tons of extra animations to fit a console fighter), that isn't the only way they can make a pass out of reused assets anyway. At this point, almost any attack animation they would potentially need has already been made with the possible exception of things like holding two-handed guns, and between things like Mii costumes, stage cameos, the Waddle Dees that carry King Dedede in his entrance animation, and yes ats and poke balls, there's plenty of character models to use in SSBU as-is.

(that "almost any attack animation" line does not accommodate more unusual body shapes or characters who could use quirkier attack animations, I'll admit)

 

[Ivander]

Neither Smash's ATs nor MK1's Kameos have even half the animations needed for a full fighter.

That said there's so many attack animations the Smash team has made between all the AT's and fighters over Smash 4 and Ultimate that it's why I had this theory on how a Booster Course Pass for SSBU could work if there's no mobile Smash

(that "almost any attack animation" line does not accommodate more unusual body shapes or characters who could use quirkier attack animations, I'll admit)

I mean, it'd be nice if some characters could pull a Chrom and have their Assist Trophy/Final Smash/etc model be used as a base or starting model to potentially save time and make them a fighter or maybe even a costume in some cases, like Engineer Link from Spirit Tracks as an Alt for Toon Link. I know there's a few that I'd like for that to happen.

That said, I don't think they'd be enough justification for a Booster Pass for SSBU, since when making a moveset for a character, it's not enough to simply make them a moveset, especially using assets already in the game, but it's important that the moveset not only works and fits the character, but gives them their own identity and feel that respects both them and their games. Sometimes liberties are taken, but they aren't done wildly.

 

[Guynamednelson]

That said, I don't think they'd be enough justification for a Booster Pass for SSBU, since when making a moveset for a character, it's not enough to simply make them a moveset, especially using assets already in the game, but it's important that the moveset not only works and fits the character, but gives them their own identity and feel that respects both them and their games.

I'm already aware that it's a long reach anyway. But given that the BCP wasn't just lousy Tour ports especially after Wave 2, I'd hope they'd have plenty of original/tweaked animations too, like Wolf did when he was added late in Brawl.

 

[superprincess]

Neither Smash's ATs nor MK1's Kameos have even half the animations needed for a full fighter.

That said there's so many attack animations the Smash team has made between all the AT's and fighters over Smash 4 and Ultimate that it's why I had this theory on how a Booster Course Pass for SSBU could work if there's no mobile Smash

(that "almost any attack animation" line does not accommodate more unusual body shapes or characters who could use quirkier attack animations, I'll admit)

Not to be rude but this sounds like a really bad idea. First of all, it wouldn't really work for any requested fighters (aside from clones and semi clones, but that's not what you're proposing). Secondly, even if it could happen, the fans of those characters would have to settle for a mishmash of other people's movesets, which would feel disjointed and barely held together. That sounds like a horrible deal, especially for DLC. Have you forgotten how outraged people were when they believed Joker's forward smash "came from Falco", or that his up air was "reused from Sheik"? Imagine that, but on a much larger scale. Disastrous.

I also don't know how much those "hodgepodge" characters could be polished without essentially turning into full-fledged, full-budget fighters. They'd have to account for every little detail, like idle & transitional animations, jumps, etc. or else the job would be even more sloppy. And most fans would take nothing over a really sloppy and messed up portrayal of their character.

Also, I know this is controversial, but it really shouldn't be... a "BCP for Smash" situation is just not happening. There's a certain charm to people who stay hopeful in the face of the most explicit and blunt statements of rejection. But please, let's not delude ourselves... the BCP happened under very unique circumstances and cannot really be applied to Smash in any way. That backup of readily available resources to recycle just doesn't exist in SSBU.