Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Based off of how Sakurai works he develops the project plans early on in development. And we can assume that each Fighter's Pass counts as a separate development cycle. All the characters for FP1 were decided likely near the end of the base game's development and development started likely before the game was launched. Same can be said for Fighter's Pass 2, meaning all of the fighters have already been decided and the team is likely working on all the characters at least bit by bit. Sakurai at least knows how the last fighter is going to work at this point and won't be working from scratch after the 5th fighter is released.

It's clear that development will be moving a bit slower thanks to Covid but I don't think they'll spread them out by that much more, perhaps an extra month in between. Which going off of that logic we'll get our next Fighter sometime in October or even November.

One thing I do want to point out. Sakurai said he promises to 'at least do all five remaining fighters and reveal trailers' Some people think this could mean more fighters are possible after the pass, but I took it as a possibility that we may only get the last five fighters and reveal trailers, and perhaps there's a chance we might not get accompanying stages. If that's the case it allows the team to put their energy into just developing the characters themselves, but at the cost of not getting new stages possibly. We got a stage for Min Min and we'll possibly get a stage for the next fighter since they would have done most of the development before Covid hit, but the rest of the fighters are still up in the air. Or I could just be thinking pessimistically due to the current situation. Knowing Sakurai he'll do everything in his power to go the extra mile.

Considering Sakurai said development was going well, I don't think stages are hurt that badly.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Why are we arguing semantics about a made up term again?

third party? I don't think thats not made up

 

[Shroob]

Based off of how Sakurai works he develops the project plans early on in development. And we can assume that each Fighter's Pass counts as a separate development cycle. All the characters for FP1 were decided likely near the end of the base game's development and development started likely before the game was launched. Same can be said for Fighter's Pass 2, meaning all of the fighters have already been decided and the team is likely working on all the characters at least bit by bit. Sakurai at least knows how the last fighter is going to work at this point and won't be working from scratch after the 5th fighter is released.

It's clear that development will be moving a bit slower thanks to Covid but I don't think they'll spread them out by that much more, perhaps an extra month in between. Which going off of that logic we'll get our next Fighter sometime in October or even November.

One thing I do want to point out. Sakurai said he promises to 'at least do all five remaining fighters and reveal trailers' Some people think this could mean more fighters are possible after the pass, but I took it as a possibility that we may only get the last five fighters and reveal trailers, and perhaps there's a chance we might not get accompanying stages. If that's the case it allows the team to put their energy into just developing the characters themselves, but at the cost of not getting new stages possibly. We got a stage for Min Min and we'll possibly get a stage for the next fighter since they would have done most of the development before Covid hit, but the rest of the fighters are still up in the air. Or I could just be thinking pessimistically due to the current situation. Knowing Sakurai he'll do everything in his power to go the extra mile.

4 months isn't feasible by the December 2021 date if my math is correct. And if it's not, it's extremely cutting it close.

3 seems like the most happy medium, but of course, we have no idea when/if Nintendo will start up Directs again, hopefully in August.

 

[DarthEnderX]

third party? I don't think thats not made up

4th party is the term they're arguing about.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

4th party is the term they're arguing about.

Oh ****, sorry, I was late. Yeah Bruh, what on earth is 4th party

 

[DanganZilla5]

so guys.....yesterday I finally broke down and got ARMS. I did play some of the demo to prepare for speculation but I was just too curious and wanted to try all the characters and stages. Overall so far my favorite character is actually probably Byte and Barq with how unique they fight and I really like Snake Park with the snakeboards which is a fun gimmick. I'm hoping to get at least somewhat decent with the game but right now I'm happy with messing around in team battles and 4 player free for alls.

First Banjo, then Dragon Quest 11, and now ARMS. Smash really has pushed me to try out games I might not have even bothered with.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

(June) >???(Sep?/Oct?)

September is the most likely to coincide with Amiibo Theory.

Also depends when the second wave hits.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Oh ****, sorry, I was late. Yeah Bruh, what on earth is 4th party

I'm gonna guess real-life people?

I'd like to play a non-Mii Reggie in Smash.

 

[Jomosensual]

I’ve stopped doing predictions for the most part, but instead go with semi-realistic wants. For the remaining characters, I think we’ll see:

Spoiler

I guess I'll do one of my own

Spoiler: My Picks

 

[Aetheri]

Oh ****, sorry, I was late. Yeah Bruh, what on earth is 4th party

4th party refers to non-video game characters.

Goku, Mickey Mouse, Batman, Ronald McDonald, etc.

Technically there are still third party since they aren't owned by Nintendo themselves, (except for of course those characters that are owned by Nintendo) but it's used to clarify that they aren't video game characters and likely "off the table" in terms of general speculation.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Yeah Bruh, what on earth is 4th party

Non-video game characters. Like Goku.

Edit: 'd.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Oh ****, sorry, I was late. Yeah Bruh, what on earth is 4th party

Characters who aren't video game characters.

Notable examples: Goku, Iron Man, Shrek, Spongebob, etc.

 

[smashkirby]

From what I remember people talking about, the thing about Dimitri and Morrigan was that she took the spotlight while Dimitri was left in the shadow.

I really hope that, if Min Min becomes a mascot, she shares the spotlight with Spring Man. I don’t want him to be left in the shadows. Yabuki likes him too, though, and he’s clearly still getting a push, so maybe this situation people are talking about likely won’t happen.

This is pretty much my hope for ARMS going forward after Min Min's addition to Smash. While I'm a tad disappointed that Spring Man (who I genuinely like) wasn't the playable rep, I'm still more than cool with Min Min (What can I say? I love her Chinese/dragon aesthetic and I love noodles). Still, I hope Nintendo doesn't 'forsake' Spring Man as a mascot for ARMS, as I feel like he encapsulates the series rather well.

Min Min would more likely replace Ribbon Girl, imo.

If anything, THIS is what I see happening to ARMS going forward. Min Min takes Ribbon Girl's place as the female mascot.

Pretty ironic, considering how Biff notes that Min Min holds a bit of a grudge against Ribbon Girl. According to him, it's nothing really intense or personal, but Min Min is supposedly a bit annoyed that Ribbon Girl got as famous as she did without much work.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I’ve stopped doing predictions for the most part, but instead go with semi-realistic wants. For the remaining characters, I think we’ll see:

Yeah, I also don't do predictions, only wishlists.

Still mine, just replace Spencer with Min Min I guess:

 

[SharkLord]

Eh, unless every Dream Friend is carried over to the next game with some sort of significance outside of cameos, I don't think the "4th Main Character" thing will necessarily apply to the Kirby franchise, especially when you think about what makes Kirby, Meta Knight, Dedede, and (I guess subjectively) Bandana Dee main characters. Perhaps one could argue that Dream Friends like Marx and Gooey could be named as the "4th Main Character" within their own respective games, but I think it would be a little weird to deem a certain character as a "main" character if they just appear, disappear for a while (outside of cameos), and then show up again, especially when taking the entirety of the Kirby franchise, or at least each era into account.

It just opens up the floodgates for anyone to be called a main character just for merely existing, which clearly doesn't seem to be the case.
I just think it's much easier for a game like ARMS to get away with it, since it's the first entry in the series and no character particularly stands out from the others in terms of appearances or being more recognizable. Eventually though, they could easily ride off of the popularity of one character in particular before bringing them into a game like Smash.

Agreed. Star Allies isn't a reset button that invalidates impact on all the past games, and we can't just use words said about a single-game series and apply them to literally any other game as an argument. Bandana Dee isn't like Spring Man because he's appeared in multiple games-From KSSU to KSA, he's actually shown up more than Dedede and Meta Knight! Spring Man, on the other hand, appeared in one game, and that was a brand new IP. Kirby isn't, and we can't apply the same rules as ARMS.

The plot of Kingdom Hearts is so convoluted and insane that I'd unironically would love to see Smash somehow become canon to KH, or at least provide foreshadowing for future plot developments (like how in Brawl, Shadow Moses Island had references to Metal Gear Solid 4's endgame, before the latter even came out).

Xehanort's eyes are yellow. When your Final Smash is ready, your eyes glow yellow. Coincidence?
I think NOT!

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

If you ask me, there's next to no chance they create these characters and Challenger Packs without a stage. Not only is development going well, but the fine print on the Smash website says that Volume 2 is very much set to be just like Volume 1.

I don't have any doubt it will maintain the structure we've seen in Volume 1.

 

[Shroob]

If you ask me, there's next to no chance they create these characters and Challenger Packs without a stage. Not only is development going well, but the fine print on the Smash website says that Volume 2 is very much set to be just like Volume 1.

I don't have any doubt it will maintain the structure we've seen in Volume 1.

But god, I'm not looking forward to them probably using a 2nd menu for the DLC stages. I hope they're able to just fit all the stages on one page.

 

[Faso115]

They are probably not doing another Guess Who unless, again, the next character is a Pokemon.

My bet is August would be ideal for a reveal and a release next month.

Or maybe use EVO but who am i kidding, Nintendo cares about EVO as much as they care about proper online connectivity

 

[Shroob]

They are probably not doing another Guess Who unless, again, the next character is a Pokemon.

My bet is August would be ideal for a reveal and a release next month.

Or maybe use EVO but who am i kidding, Nintendo cares about EVO as much as they care about proper online connectivity

I'm banking on September myself, it'd put us on track like wave 1 was.


But as to when the teaser would be, who knows. Could be next month, could be August, no one knows.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

They are probably not doing another Guess Who unless, again, the next character is a Pokemon.

My bet is August would be ideal for a reveal and a release next month.

Or maybe use EVO but who am i kidding, Nintendo cares about EVO as much as they care about proper online connectivity

I'm thinking September given Amiibo Theory which has yet to have been broken.

 

[DevaAshera]

Damn right. Despite years of neglect, its status as a classic and Falcon in Smash have kept F-Zero alive and kicking in people's minds. A new F-Zero would sell, that's a guarantee. Nintendo can be incredibly short-sighted, but not capitalizing on a franchise that they've literally been advertising for decades because Miyamoto won't come up with a gimmick is one of their dumbest.

I know..I'm sick of Miyamoto having routinely terrible ideas or an over reliance on gimmicks since he seems to think games aren't as much fun without them.
I think he's past his prime and should let others take the reins like happened with Zelda.

 

[SharkLord]

According to Amiibo Theory, next fighter is September, like people are saying. That being said, assuming things are going well over at Nintendo, we could end up with an August Direct and see who it is there. Sure, Min Min and Byleth were revealed in their overview, but nothing says the next fighter needs to be revealed like that.

 

[Perkilator]

According to Amiibo Theory, next fighter is September, like people are saying. That being said, assuming things are going well over at Nintendo, we could end up with an August Direct and see who it is there. Sure, Min Min and Byleth were revealed in their overview, but nothing says the next fighter needs to be revealed like that.

Especially since they're both currently the only fighters revealed this way.

 

[SharkLord]

Especially since they're both currently the only fighters revealed this way.

Interestingly, the only first-parties to be part of a pass are the only ones revealed in their overview. You'd think the third-parties would be revealed like that, being the big hype trains and all.

 

[CosmicQuark]

We can certainly keep the pace of Volume 1 while maintaining the Dec 2021 deadline. My hypothetical timeline:

June: FP6 - Min Min
Oct: FP7
Feb: FP8
June: FP9
Sept: FP10
Dec: FP11

Starting with longer gaps at first, 4 months, then going into 3 month gaps. The shortest gap we’ve had between characters is Banjo & Kazooie and Terry, as well as Terry and Byleth with a 2 month gap. So the hypothetical is a pessimistic timeline, which still isn’t that bad.

 

[Megadoomer]

so guys.....yesterday I finally broke down and got ARMS. I did play some of the demo to prepare for speculation but I was just too curious and wanted to try all the characters and stages. Overall so far my favorite character is actually probably Byte and Barq with how unique they fight and I really like Snake Park with the snakeboards which is a fun gimmick. I'm hoping to get at least somewhat decent with the game but right now I'm happy with messing around in team battles and 4 player free for alls.

First Banjo, then Dragon Quest 11, and now ARMS. Smash really has pushed me to try out games I might not have even bothered with.

Smash works really well as a gateway series. It was the same for me with Metal Gear, Xenoblade, Fire Emblem, and Earthbound, at the very least. (also, why would you not have bothered with Banjo? That game's one of the best platformers out there!)

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

4th party refers to non-video game characters.

Goku, Mickey Mouse, Batman, Ronald McDonald, etc.

Technically there are still third party since they aren't owned by Nintendo themselves, (except for of course those characters that are owned by Nintendo) but it's used to clarify that they aren't video game characters and likely "off the table" in terms of general speculation.

Non-video game characters. Like Goku.

Edit: 'd.

Characters who aren't video game characters.

Notable examples: Goku, Iron Man, Shrek, Spongebob, etc.

H-huh, the more I know

 

[SharkLord]

Smash works really well as a gateway series. It was the same for me with Metal Gear, Xenoblade, Fire Emblem, and Earthbound, at the very least. (also, why would you not have bothered with Banjo? That game's one of the best platformers out there!)

Agreed. It got me into Metroid, Fire Emblem, Xenoblade Chronicles, Castlevania, SNK's multiverse, etc., and that's just the actual fighters. About ahlf of my interests I first heard about through Smash speculation, actually.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Xehanort's eyes are yellow. When your Final Smash is ready, your eyes glow yellow. Coincidence?
I think NOT!

So Everyone really WAS already half Xehanort

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Xehanort's eyes are yellow. When your Final Smash is ready, your eyes glow yellow. Coincidence?
I think NOT!

And whose eyes constantly glow yellow?

I now want to see Ridley pontificating about the meanings of Light, hearts and Darkness all while wearing one of those dumb hoodies.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

And whose eyes constantly glow yellow?

I now want to see Ridley pontificating about the meanings of Light, hearts and Darkness all while wearing one of those dumb hoodies.

The catch is...

Its all in his screeching dinosaur noises.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Agreed. Star Allies isn't a reset button that invalidates impact on all the past games, and we can't just use words said about a single-game series and apply them to literally any other game as an argument. Bandana Dee isn't like Spring Man because he's appeared in multiple games-From KSSU to KSA, he's actually shown up more than Dedede and Meta Knight! Spring Man, on the other hand, appeared in one game, and that was a brand new IP. Kirby isn't, and we can't apply the same rules as ARMS.

I'm sorry but I disagree. The amount of appearance doesn't make a character more important. As you said, Bandana Waddle Dee appeared more than King Dedede and Metaknight, but King Dedede and Metaknight are still more important than him right? They are often the focus of the story, we often get levels inside Dedede's Castle or the Halberd, etc. It's not a matter of how many times a character appears, it's how meaningful that appearance is.
I'm pretty sure that, speaking of impact on all the past games, Marx had a bigger impact on the series with his one appearance, than Bandana Waddle Dee with his multiple appearances... by this logic, the least influent character is probably Daroach or Dark Metaknight, though Daroach is getting plushes and steampunk toy figures just recently. I'm convinced that all those characters are considered on the same level and they're there to stay... there's a big chance that they all will return in the next game, maybe as playable too, due to the success that the Dream Friends had among the fanbase during all the announcement/release cycle.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Marx had a bigger impact on the series with his one appearance, than Bandana Waddle Dee with his multiple appearances..

But how?

Marx affects one game in Kirby Super Star and its remake... and affects literally nothing else until Star Allies. He's not like Dark Matter who's seemingly connected to everything. He's probably closer to Dark Mind in terms of series influence. A villain who appeared in the climax of his game, and nothing else.

Daroach at least affected the plot of two main series games and Bandana Waddle Dee is at least playable in several Kirby games, even being Kirby's side kick in some. Dark Meta Knight was a bonus boss at one point and had the mirror world affect Triple Deluxe. Marx's impact on the series is pretty darn minimal. The only thing even related to Marx that affected future plots was Nova appearing in Robotbot. But that's Nova, not Marx.

 

[NintenRob]

People will find whatever loophole they want **** on Bandana Dee won't they?

The fact (yes, FACT) that Bandana Dee is more popular than the vast majority of Kirby characters, the Fact that they still continue to use him when they can shows just how much of an impact he's had. People loved playing as him in Return to Dreamland. People wanted an Extra mode focused on him.

He's not comparable to Spring Man, he's honestly become the Luigi of sorts for the franchise.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

But how?

Marx affects one game in Kirby Super Star and its remake... and affects literally nothing else until Star Allies. He's not like Dark Matter who's seemingly connected to everything. He's probably closer to Dark Mind in terms of series influence. A villain who appeared in the climax of his game, and nothing else.

Daroach at least affected the plot of two main series games and Bandana Waddle Dee is at least playable in several Kirby games, even being Kirby's side kick in some. Dark Meta Knight was a bonus boss at one point and had the mirror world affect Triple Deluxe. Marx's impact on the series is pretty darn minimal. The only thing even related to Marx that affected future plots was Nova appearing in Robotbot. But that's Nova, not Marx.

Marx did not affect the series story-wise (or lore), but design-wise.
Magolor exists because Marx exists, and we get the typical betrayal plot twist in most games because of him.
There's a reason why he's still a very memorable character despite appearing only in one game and its remake (excluding Star Allies).

People will find whatever loophole they want **** on Bandana Dee won't they?

People will find wathever loophole they want **** on literally any Kirby character that's not Bandana Dee because Bandana Dee is "more important" won't they?

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Bandee seems to be a nerve-toucher alongside Fire Emblem, huh?
I said it last time he was brought up, but BanDee to me at least would probably be one of my most "neutral" picks for Smash. Like, I don't actively want him, but I wouldn't hate it if he got in.
The worst thing I can say about BanDee is I would much rather see Dark Matter in Smash first.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Marx did not affect the series story-wise (or lore) of the series, but design-wise.
Magolor exists because Marx exists, and we get the typical betrayal plot twist in most games because of him.
There's a reason why he's still a very memorable character despite appearing only in one game and its remake (excluding Star Allies).

I dunno. Magalor seems to take more design cues from Dark Matter then Marx. The eye is a dead giveaway.

And betrayal plots are not exclusive to Marx. That's like saying Taranza becoming a good guy is due to Dedede turning out to be good in Adventure.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Marx is one of my favorite characters from Kirby, but I’m pretty sure he didn’t impact much with his one main game appearance (or two if you count Ultra), cameo as a boss in Mass Attack’s pinball game, and one of a dozen other dream friends in Star Allies.

 

[NintenRob]

Marx is one of my favorite characters from Kirby, but I’m pretty sure he didn’t impact much with his one main game appearance (or two if you count Ultra), cameo as a boss in Mass Attack’s pinball game, and one of a dozen other dream friends in Star Allies.

Not to mention it was one SubGame in Super Star (plus arena fights) he's non existent in Dyna blade, Meta Knights Revenge and Great Cave Offensive

 

[Mamboo07]

Why is everyone fighting over my boy Dee?