Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Cutie Gwen]

But if it did, we'd get some weird Kamen Rider **** in Smash over Banjo-Kazooie

How else did we get Captain Falcon in Smash?

 

[Will]

But if it did, we'd get some weird Kamen Rider **** in Smash over Banjo-Kazooie

Kamen Rider Kabuto, Vergil, and Red Quantum Force Ranger are all in Smash babyyyyyyyy

 

[Diddy Kong]

I still stand by the fact that the worst newcomer I ever saw support for was "Fire Emblem Switch Lord". That period of time when Smash was announced and 3 Houses was merely a title, and already people were throwing support behind a character we didn't knew how they fought, what their personality was like, or even if their game was going to be any good. When fans created mockup wishlist rosters, they would add "Fire Emblem Switch Lord" because they "might" have a cool moveset for Smash or because previous games added new FE characters. You're essentially wishing for an OC in Smash, and I would have had far more respect if they wanted Hector or Lyn or Camilla instead, because they at least had character we actually knew about.

I think that's part of why I'm not fond of the idea of Edelgard in Smash, because she's partially a holdover of the old support for the unknown Switch Lord where they would have supported them no matter what because they were the main character of FE16. Edelgard could have probably eaten a baby in the game and her support base wouldn't take too bad a hit because the marketing told you she was the main character and therefore gets first dibs.

There's some irony in that one of my most-wanted is a Lord from 3 Houses, but that's because I got invested in Dimitri as a character and have concrete proof of his moveset bringing something unique to Smash. Point is, fans shouldn't be in charge of picking characters purely to promote a new game, it's NINTENDO'S job to put Roy and Corrin in to encourage people to get excited for an unreleased product. Its OUR job to push for Ridleys and Banjo-Kazooies because we love the characters, not because we're wannabe Nintendo marketing interns.

Edelgard eating babies? If that could make her conquer Fodlan, she would.

Preferring Dimitri though? I see you're a well cultured man.

 

[Deleted member]

How else did we get Captain Falcon in Smash?

Because Sakurai looked into the future and saw the Falcon Punch would solve world hunger and nuclear disarmament by 2078.

 

[-crump-]

I love Fire Emblem, it’s honestly one of my favorite video game series, but it’s representation in Smash does feel a little... bloated imo. Even though I absolutely love Edelgard, adding her or anyone else from 3H wouldn’t really have a major impact to me because there’s just so many other characters already repping the series.

Spoiler

But seriously Edelgard is the best, stop calling her a villain, you all are just lousy Church apologists, no I didn’t misspell her name the first time.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Because Sakurai looked into the future and saw the Falcon Punch would solve world hunger and nuclear disarmament by 2078.

For real those are heavy Showa Rider vibes

 

[Mango The Magician]

Link has many incarnations over the Zelda franchise's history. Link isn't a set character.

Within the lore of the series this is technically true, but outside of it and from the perspective of Smash and just the series as a whole Link can be seen as a singular entity...and really this could easily be reflected in Smash if they wanted...as it's not like thr majority of Link's moveset is true to just whatever incarnation it happens to be as the downward thrust and upward thrust were inspired by Zelda 2 despite debuting with OOT Link...and while boomerangs exist in BOTW I wouldn't say they're prominent enough to really feel like they fit into the moveset if the incarnation they're using is BOTW...and it never made sense that Adult OOT Link had a boomerang and child OOT Link had the fairy bow and OOT hookshot. Basically I think they could get away with just one Link...make his moveset and amalgamation of all incarnations and give him different incarnations as alts.


Also get rid of Sheik or base her solely on OOT...she's not relevant to Zelda anymore but if they're gonna keep her around at least try to stay true to the character as opposed to continuing to make her this weird anomaly.

 

[3BitSaurus]

The problem is not the opinions but rather that a lot of the comments are based on pretty much faulty logic and while it's ok to not like a franchise, the people hating on it are just being petty about it as they want it to die when they can just ignore it in or out Smash.

Okay. And?

They're opinions. One doesn't exactly expect logic to be in the center of those. As much as I disagree with it, there's literally no point in arguing that. If I stopped to argue with every single person who had an opinion I found to be based on faulty logic on the internet, my hair would be white at 24 years old. Just as they can ignore it, so can you.

I just really dislike these knee-jerk reactions. "X is toxic, so I can be toxic too!" Can we please move on to something else?

 

[Will]

...she's not relevant to Zelda anymore

With Pit asking if there's a new timeline, I feel like Sheik is going to get reinvented soon somehow. Maybe Sakurai heard some juicy gossip.

I find it funny that Sheik is "based off of the Sheikah in BoTW" but has no reference to anything from the games. Nothing from the Yiga clan or the monks that would've been pretty cool and unique at the time.

 

[Deleted member]

I love Fire Emblem, it’s honestly one of my favorite video game series, but it’s representation in Smash does feel a little... bloated imo. Even though I absolutely love Edlegard, adding her or anyone else from 3H wouldn’t really have a major impact to me because there’s just so many other characters already repping the series.

I agree. For me, Three Houses in Smash ultimately boils down to:

"I don't want it, but I will gladly accept it with open arms."

For real those are heavy Showa Rider vibes

Man, if only I could understand that reference.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I agree. For me, Three Houses in Smash ultimately boils down to:

"I don't want it, but I will gladly accept it with open arms."


Man, if only I could understand that reference.

Showa is an era of Japan, the Kamen Riders of the Showa era were radically leftwing and beat up Hitler while slaughtering nazis

 

[Deleted member]

Showa is an era of Japan, the Kamen Riders of the Showa era were radically leftwing and beat up Hitler while slaughtering nazis

Japan fighting Hitler? What a crazy world that is.

 

[Will]

Man, if only I could understand that reference.

The 70s era of Kamen Rider was mostly just Nazis making superhumans out of people and the Riders just so happen to be the experiments they make that defected to the good guys because they either broke free from brainwashing or they got beat the **** up to be good.

I think the last Showa rider was Rider Black?

 

[Deleted member]

The 70s era of Kamen Rider was mostly just Nazis making superhumans out of people and the Riders just so happen to be the experiments they make that defected to the good guys because they either broke free from brainwashing or they got beat the **** up to be good.

I think the last Showa rider was Rider Black?

Don't tell me Gwen converted you to the show, Will!?

 

[SKX31]

This is exactly why it's incredibly frustrating to see people ask for, like, "A Gen 8 Pokemon". It's so depressing to see people just kind of sigh and roll over and be so cynical that they're convinced there's going to be some kind of unknown Pokemon added "because marketing". It's like a holdover from when people thought the fighters pass was all going to be new or promotional characters. Now, I've grown super fond of Rillaboom and Sirfetch'd and am a little sad that we likely won't be getting either of them, but at least the Spirits event allowed me to breathe a sigh of relief that people can finally put this weirdly cynical vibe to bed. People care more about numbers and being "right" than for campaigning for who they want.

Especially considering people don't know who the Nintendo higher ups are. Beyond people like Miyamoto, Iwata etc. - but that's because they develop(ed) games. I feel positively like I'm the only one talking about Furukawa sometimes. Which is definetely weird when he has a lot of influence on Ultimate and FP / further character selections as Executive Producer and the guy headlining the business and legal deals. So Sakurai can go for the development. Again, Furukawa grew up on the Famicom and has by all accounts stayed with Nintendo during his rise (working for NOE and the Pokemon Company along the way), so he shouldn't be an issue at all. He's fully okay with the FP as it stands.

I guess people got burned out on the stereotypical CEO. People like Bobby Kotick, Konami's top brass and Pony Ma (Tencent's founder and current head, who has said stuff like "[To] copy is not evil." To writ, other Chinese CEOs have complained about this.) and just group them as a "they" category.

 

[Will]

Don't tell me Gwen converted you to the show, Will!?

Gwen has had me on ignore for a full year and a half for a transphobic side of me that's long gone, there's no way in hell she'd be aware of anything I do. I've been aware of Kamen Rider for years, the only series that I've actually completed was Kabuto though. Just cause the fights were cool.

 

[Deleted member]

Gwen has had me on ignore for a full year and a half for a transphobic side of me that's long gone, there's no way in hell she'd be aware of anything I do. I've been aware of Kamen Rider for years, the only series that I've actually completed was Kabuto though. Just cause the fights were cool.

That is the stupidest thing I ever watched. Might check it out.

 

[Jomosensual]

I'm going to be blunt about this.

Fire Emblem should have died. It has a boring world with uninteresting characters and the series focuses on the most boring aspects of it's setting. "Oh no, our kingdom is under attack by another kingdom" Like wow, real interesting story telling. If I wanted to play a fun Tactical RPG, I'd play Shining force because that game allows you to recruit bird people, centaurs, an armadillo, a robot, a Squid named Domingo and a Hamster named Jogurt who collects yogurts that allow you to wear hamster suits.



Just Isaac and Alexandra Roivas. I don't know what kind of moveset Alex could use but I'm at least glad she and her series is still acknowledged, even if it's with just a spirit.

I just want Isaac just for his fans to be happy and that I think despite him being a sword fighter, he could be pretty interesting. In fact can't we switch the popularity around so that Fire Emblem is a dead series and Golden Sun is popular instead?

Literally the 3-4 more recent games aren't about this. Only one I'm not sure about it Echos because I didn't play it.

 

[Will]

That is the stupidest thing I ever watched. Might check it out.

I've also watched some of the original series. Highlights was when the first Kamen Rider took a nuke to the face in the V3 movie. Did you know the first Kamen Rider was actually played by the same guy who does Segata Sanshiro? Maybe you do, idk, it's just a fun fact.

Only one I'm not sure about it Echos because I didn't play it.

Echoes is just a remake of FE2 and it definitely counts.

 

[Ivander]

if I remember correctly, Golden Sun's plot was actually terrible. In the first game, the villains are actually supposed to be the good guys, but instead of discussing why they're good to the player, they destroy your village.

No, but actually yes, but actually no.

The village getting destroyed wasn't their intention. IIRC, they attempted to get into the shrine where the Stars were and either got into a fight with the Guardian there and their battle ended up causing the storm that affected the village or regardless, something bad happened when they attempted to enter and caused the storm. Either way, the storm that happened wasn't intentionally their fault, but it's still indirectly their fault for it happening.

Them beating up young Isaac and Garet was intentional though. Most likely because they were afraid of the kids misunderstanding of them being the destroyers intentionally and telling the other villagers, which in turn would make it even harder for them to return to the shrine, and were hoping that knocking them out would make them forget about them.

 

[NoBS]

What context? That interaction was ZelDan apologizing for people and saying Edelgard would be cool then you saying what I quoted. If you're trying to argue something, be clearer because that's how misunderstandings happen (this is just general advice).

What I said was accurate and easy to understand if you don’t ignore the rest of the comment/comments because your seething rage that most people don’t care about another fire emblem character. Here it is again even clearer if you still don’t get it.


Fir emblem fans have statistically, factually, been catered to more than most other series. There are 4 unique fire emblem characters with IKE, Marth, Robin, and Corrin, and at this point, Roy is fairly unique, with two other echoes in Lucina and Chrom. There are several fire emblem games covered with representation in smash already. If you are a fire emblem fan like I am, Sakurai has already given a lot to try and please you, and that’s for a series that isn’t some massive game titan. There are other avenues that Sakurai can and will take that will be able to please a lot more people, and bigger icons out there.



Again we are talking in generalities. This doesn’t mean every single fire emblem fan is perfectly happy. This doesn’t mean Byleth sucks. This doesn’t mean fire emblem fans wouldn’t like to see a different weapon but it’s highly unlikely your hype for any of those out weighs someone who gets surprised that their unrepped game gets repped.

 

[Sysreq]

What I said was accurate and easy to understand if you don’t ignore the rest of the comment/comments because your seething rage that most people don’t care about another fire emblem character. Here it is again even clearer if you still don’t get it.


Fir emblem fans have statistically, factually, been catered to more than most other series. There are 4 unique fire emblem characters with IKE, Marth, Robin, and Corrin, and at this point, Roy is fairly unique, with two other echoes in Lucina and Chrom. There are several fire emblem games covered with representation in smash already. If you are a fire emblem fan like I am, Sakurai has already given a lot to try and please you, and that’s for a series that isn’t some massive game titan. There are other avenues that Sakurai can and will take that will be able to please a lot more people, and bigger icons out there.



Again we are talking in generalities. This doesn’t mean every single fire emblem fan is perfectly happy. This doesn’t mean Byleth sucks. This doesn’t mean fire emblem fans wouldn’t like to see a different weapon but it’s highly unlikely your hype for any of those out weighs someone who gets surprised that their unrepped game gets repped.

Good job. That's what you should have said the first time.

 

[Mango The Magician]

With Pit asking if there's a new timeline, I feel like Sheik is going to get reinvented soon somehow. Maybe Sakurai heard some juicy gossip.

I find it funny that Sheik is "based off of the Sheikah in BoTW" but has no reference to anything from the games. Nothing from the Yiga clan or the monks that would've been pretty cool and unique at the time.

I kinda doubt that. I think the Pit thing was a joke, as she's still largely based on OOT Sheik along with elements from the noncanon TP Sheik. I think the Smash team just didnt care which to me is annoying. For the most part Sheik is a minor character associated only with OOT, I'd honestly prefer to get rid of them to focus on a new different Zelda character, like Vaati or Brynne or even heck Ashei. Also it is kinda weird how little Sheikah tech there is in Smash, at the very least a Gaurdian AT or a Ancient Sword item would've been cool, or even a windcleaver item.

 

[Flyboy]

My contribution to this discussion: watch Kamen Rider Fourze. It's good.

Also to make this Smash-related, Lupinranger vs. Patoranger is literally just Persona 5's aesthetic as a sentai series and it's a blast as a result.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Don't tell me Gwen converted you to the show, Will!?

Wait who's Will

Gwen has had me on ignore for a full year and a half for a transphobic side of me that's long gone, there's no way in hell she'd be aware of anything I do. I've been aware of Kamen Rider for years, the only series that I've actually completed was Kabuto though. Just cause the fights were cool.

Ok first of all if you've improved I'm willing to give another chance, second, I sure as **** don't remember anyone called Will, who are you?

 

[NoBS]

Good job. That's what you should have said the first time.

Everyone should know that already, it’s common sense unless you’re lying to yourself.

 

[Will]

I sure as **** don't remember anyone called Will, who are you?

Used to be Arigarmy.

Also it is kinda weird how little Sheikah tech there is in Smash, at the very least a Gaurdian AT or a Ancient Sword item would've been cool, or even a windcleaver item.

A lot of the BoTW toolkit is just ultimately unused, save for picking up arrows and rune bombs.

 

[3BitSaurus]

So we're almost entering the last week of November... might get some news soon.

Based on the next amiibo line (January), my guess is that the last character will release in the second half of that month. Meaning their trailer would probably have to come out in December, as we have more DLC after that, so a shadowdrop doesn't really make sense imo.

The question now is whether this would be a Direct or TGA announcement.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Literally the 3-4 more recent games aren't about this. Only one I'm not sure about it Echos because I didn't play it.

From what I've seen, Fire Emblem Three Houses is more of the same, except you're in a school.

 

[Sudz]

Disregard this

 

[Will]

From what I've seen, Fire Emblem Three Houses is more of the same, except you're in a school.

I can only think of one of the routes that can sum up to "Kingdom is being invaded by other kingdom" plotline, and even then in that route it's a secondary objective.

 

[MooMew64]

From what I've seen, Fire Emblem Three Houses is more of the same, except you're in a school.

Not to sound rude, but it sounds like you didn't look very hard then.

 

[Will]

Spoiler: One of those insider dudes said this

View attachment 247378

Unexpected, but anyone can doctor a Discord photo.

 

[GKMLTTSB]

What new first party franchises do you guys even want? There’s not a whole lot. I wouldn’t mind Golden Sun, Chibi Robo & Rhythm Heaven but that’s all base roster material IMO.

There’s not really any Nintendo series that feeling “missing” IMO; everything left is a smaller series that’s probably dead for the foreseeable future, they might be good games but they didn’t really leave that much of an impact on Nintendo/gaming.

'Smaller' and 'Dead' don't work against my desires for a series, especially when it comes to first party stuff.
Those are the series that a presence in Smash can do wonders for. Get interest in them up and get discussions going. There are a lot of games that people may have either never heard of or simply ignored that they'd actually be willing to give the time of day to should they be added to Smash. And there's a lot of such titles that have a lot to offer.

Specifically in my case, the biggest additions I'd like to see are from Eternal Darkness and, for a 'Gaming-Adjacent' character, Captain N.
Another Code, Ouendan, Daigasso, StarTropics, Panel de Pon, Doshin, Sin & Punishment, Magical 'x', etc. having a greater presence would be fun too.

And something else on the quirky side just for novelty's sake... Like the Game Boy Camera stuff. >_>

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Used to be Arigarmy.


A lot of the BoTW toolkit is just ultimately unused, save for picking up arrows and rune bombs.

Ah right I remember now. Again, I'll gladly offer an extra chance

From what I've seen, Fire Emblem Three Houses is more of the same, except you're in a school.

Oh my god you literally cannot be further from the truth. First of all there's near complete freedom to whar you can do from the getgo, second, the story isn't just "Invaders are gonna conquer us all and we need to uphold the status quo" but rather complex with no definitive good or bad side depending on the House you side with, almost every single character is filled with more depth than like 95% percent of the Smash cast have.

 

[Naoyatodo]

I'm currently hedging my bets on Heihachi. If it's not something out of nowhere wacky like Monokuma or something surprising but requested like Phoenix, I think a Bamco rep has a very solid shot. I'm hoping that it doesn't have to be either a tales rep OR Heihachi, because as evidenced by my sig I'd like both.

Though the lack of a Heihachi costume being included in 6.0's batch of Mii Fighters has me suspicious, I wouldn't expect him to get in so soon. Maybe it's because we just got a fighting game character, and I think they're gonna want a little more variety in the Pass.
If it's about establishing relations with Bandai Namco, then Dark Souls is our best bet, I think.

Most people who aren't Fire Emblem fans don't seem to realize that we'd swap out Corrin for a Three Houses rep if we could. We'd swap out Corrin for a lot of other options, really.

(Okay, maybe not "we", but I know I certainly would.)

I feel like, after the hate from non FE fans died down, Corrin's detractors are ironically mostly composed of FE fans.

I'm still a little tilted about their reveal, which soured me on Smash for months. I like to characterize them as a hentai-addict who asks for feet pics in girls' DMs to cope.

I think that's part of why I'm not fond of the idea of Edelgard in Smash, because she's partially a holdover of the old support for the unknown Switch Lord where they would have supported them no matter what because they were the main character of FE16. Edelgard could have probably eaten a baby in the game and her support base wouldn't take too bad a hit because the marketing told you she was the main character and therefore gets first dibs.

There's some irony in that one of my most-wanted is a Lord from 3 Houses, but that's because I got invested in Dimitri as a character and have concrete proof of his moveset bringing something unique to Smash. Point is, fans shouldn't be in charge of picking characters purely to promote a new game, it's NINTENDO'S job to put Roy and Corrin in to encourage people to get excited for an unreleased product. Its OUR job to push for Ridleys and Banjo-Kazooies because we love the characters, not because we're wannabe Nintendo marketing interns.

Does your dislike of Edelgard in Smash also stem from the Edelgard-Dimitri rivalry present both in game and in the fandom?

Especially considering people don't know who the Nintendo higher ups are. Beyond people like Miyamoto, Iwata etc. - but that's because they develop(ed) games. I feel positively like I'm the only one talking about Furukawa sometimes. Which is definetely weird when he has a lot of influence on Ultimate and FP / further character selections as Executive Producer and the guy headlining the business and legal deals. So Sakurai can go for the development. Again, Furukawa grew up on the Famicom and has by all accounts stayed with Nintendo during his rise (working for NOE and the Pokemon Company along the way), so he shouldn't be an issue at all. He's fully okay with the FP as it stands.

I guess people got burned out on the stereotypical CEO. People like Bobby Kotick, Konami's top brass and Pony Ma (Tencent's founder and current head, who has said stuff like "[To] copy is not evil." To writ, other Chinese CEOs have complained about this.) and just group them as a "they" category.

I think we're too concerned with how individual people's factor into who gets into Smash as DLC. Sakurai did say that the lineup was decided by Nintendo, but what that means is that character choices are business decisions first and creative decisions second. Not saying that's a bad thing, but it really changes the thought process behind character choices.

 

[PK-remling Fire]

Spoiler: One of those insider dudes said this

View attachment 247378

I'm pretty sure that was confirmed photoshop

 

[JustMyself13]

Spoiler: One of those insider dudes said this

View attachment 247378

This was confirmed to be fraudulent, Sabi has not made any direct claims relating to fighter five yet.

ninja’d

 

[Sudz]

Unexpected, but anyone can doctor a Discord photo.

My eyes aren't great but I looked at it closer and it looks doctored to me so nvm my b. There's a pretty obvious square around the text so yeah

 

[Will]

I can entertain the idea of Arthur in Smash, though. He's just Simon but Capcom in terms of implementation.