Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[JustMyself13]

This is pretty hyperbolic, honestly. Don't confuse the actions of a vocal internet minority with reality. Until we get the actual sales figures there's no way to know how DLC has performed.

At the same time, I feel that the demand for Reimu in Smash consists mainly of said vocal internet minority.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

http://xusooot34wmwpyvd.onion.ws/v/thread/456634871/#456651537

...well we may have a legend here if character pack 5 is either “chosen undead” or solaire from dark souls

 

[PSIGuy]

If any character was going to be a super niche pick it'd be FP5. After all, you already bought the Fighter Pass. What are you gonna do? Ignore 20% of the content you paid for because you don't like it.

 

[TheTuninator]

At the same time, I feel that the demand for Reimu in Smash consists mainly of said vocal internet minority.

Absolutely! That's very much so the case in the West. Since Touhou has had no official Western presence until very recently, the series spread organically through word-of-mouth, meaning that Western Touhou fans are highly enfranchised by default. With that said, I think this is the case for lots of the fanbases advocating for characters on here. Many of the truly huge mainstream icons are already in.

I'll simply state again that Sakurai himself has said that a character's potential can be more important than global recognition, and I think the DLC pattern to date often bears that out.

 

[Fenriraga]

I know next to nothing about Touhou outside of A. Bullet-Hell, B. Cute Girls, C. Absolutely incredible fan products and D. Some of the best dang game music literally ever. I certainly wouldn't mind it in Smash, and have been meaning to play the series proper for years now.

However, this alone gives the series all the merit it needs to be worthy of Smash.

I saw this video well over a decade ago before I even knew what Touhou (Or even most internet things) was and it's still the most magical thing I've ever stumbled upon in my entire internet career. It is literally engrained into my psyche.

Native Faith best Touhou song. Says the man with no Touhou experience.

Kero Kero.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So what's with the Tohou talk suddenly? Something come up regarding it?

 

[Eldrake]

Question: if Sakurai chose Gordon for DLC 5, how is he get past the fact that Mr. Freeman has no personality?

If you're talking about his lack of a voice, that's easily solved by having his HEV suit talk like in the games and make sounds for certain situations. Like a chance at it saying "FRACTURE DETECTED" at 100% damage, and the flatline sound effect can be used for when he's blasting off.

 

[KillerCage]

I don't know, but please read this link if you want more info. https://www.sourcegaming.info/2017/07/12/feelofamericangames/

Thanks for the link, Lesley!
I must have been remembering Sakurai playing Halo 2.
If anything, it's possible that DLC Fighter 5 could be either Master Chief or Gordon Freeman.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

When a character that hasn't had a new game in 5+ years gets invited to Smash.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Master Chief would definitely be an worthy reveal to end the Pass and for such an event like the VGA. I'd also be down for him especially now I got

 

[Deleted member]

Master Chief would definitely be an worthy reveal to end the Pass and for such an event like the VGA. I'd also be down for him especially now I got

I'd prefer Chief for later. Post pass Chief is more probable compared to now, since two Microsoft reps in one pass doesn't seem right.

also we need a female character in the pass dammit

 

[OrpheusTelos]

Man it's so weird to hear people on here say they haven't heard of Touhou until now. I know plenty of people who love Touhou and it's pretty damn hard to avoid fan remixes and fanart of it. In a way it was something of a precursor to Undertale's online fan culture, which makes sense seeing how Touhou was one of Undertale's main influences. I'm probably one of the biggest zoomers here in terms of character tastes and yall are making me feel old.

 

[Deleted member]

Man it's so weird to hear people on here say they haven't heard of Touhou until now. I know plenty of people who love Touhou and it's pretty damn hard to avoid fan remixes and fanart of it. In a way it was something of a precursor to Undertale's online fan culture, which makes sense seeing how Touhou was one of Undertale's main influences. I'm probably one of the biggest zoomers here in terms of character tastes and yall are making me feel old.

Touhou is technically a Japanese indie game franchise so if Sakurai wants to wedge in the true indie reps in the roster he'd most probably look for the ones that strike his interest best in his home country.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

My feelings toward Touhou are similar to my feelings towards Erdrick and Terry; I didn't want them because I've never played their games, but I'm confident that if Sakurai wanted to put Reimu in, he would be able to put in enough love, obscure trivia and fun attacks to win me over to playing her.

At the very least I might be able to understand half the things happening in this music video.

At the moment though, I'd rather have Quote as an "Indie rep".

 

[JustMyself13]

Touhou is technically a Japanese indie game franchise so if Sakurai wants to wedge in the true indie reps in the roster he'd most probably look for the ones that strike his interest best in his home country.

Now that I’m thinking about it, it’s incredibly surprising that we got Shantae content and a Shovel Knight assist, two incredibly western indies, over any sort of Japanese indie game or franchise like Touhou.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I would apocalypse the internet if master chief is FP5

 

[BernkastelWitch]

Man it's so weird to hear people on here say they haven't heard of Touhou until now. I know plenty of people who love Touhou and it's pretty damn hard to avoid fan remixes and fanart of it. In a way it was something of a precursor to Undertale's online fan culture, which makes sense seeing how Touhou was one of Undertale's main influences. I'm probably one of the biggest zoomers here in terms of character tastes and yall are making me feel old.

Even before I got super into Touhou(And it became one of my favorite franchises) I've seen a lot of Touhou related stuff on the Internet: Bad Apple, Ronald Mcdonald Insanity, Night of Nights, etc etc all the big meme stuff that went super viral.

Of course I'm more disturbed at people who didn't know of Dragon Quest and King of Fighters than Touhou. At least with Touhou I can kinda understand given most people probably don't think too much of where a viral video came from and it took a while for ZUN to soften up on bringing the games internationally despite how huge it is in Japan.

 

[Zinith]

Man it's so weird to hear people on here say they haven't heard of Touhou until now. I know plenty of people who love Touhou and it's pretty damn hard to avoid fan remixes and fanart of it. In a way it was something of a precursor to Undertale's online fan culture, which makes sense seeing how Touhou was one of Undertale's main influences. I'm probably one of the biggest zoomers here in terms of character tastes and yall are making me feel old.

Appeal to personal incredulity. No offense, but that's pretty much a word for word example of it

 

[Vycoul]

Seems I picked the wrong time to browse this thread. Last time I was here, some people were borderline in tears about people who weren't even in this thread calling Terry 'Hat Ken.'
But now we have some in this thread crapping on Reimu and calling her "just another anime girl in a skirt."

I'd really like it if people around here could:
Freely crap on anyone without other people clutching their pearls when it happens to a popular character.
Or
Not dogpile on less popular niche characters.

 

[Deleted member]

I would apocalypse the internet if master chief is FP5

Don't count your chickens until they hatch. And we already have one Microsoft rep in the pass, save the hype for later.

Even before I got super into Touhou(And it became one of my favorite franchises) I've seen a lot of Touhou related stuff on the Internet: Bad Apple, Ronald Mcdonald Insanity, Night of Nights, etc etc all the big meme stuff that went super viral.

Of course I'm more disturbed at people who didn't know of Dragon Quest and King of Fighters than Touhou. At least with Touhou I can kinda understand given most people probably don't think too much of where a viral video came from and it took a while for ZUN to soften up on bringing the games internationally despite how huge it is in Japan.

Touhou imo is quite niche, but at the same time, they have a hand in the Japanese indie market.

 

[TheTuninator]

My feelings toward Touhou are similar to my feelings towards Erdrick and Terry; I didn't want them because I've never played their games, but I'm confident that if Sakurai wanted to put Reimu in, he would be able to put in enough love, obscure trivia and fun attacks to win me over to playing her.

At the very least I might be able to understand half the things happening in this music video.

At the moment though, I'd rather have Quote as an "Indie rep".

Reimu's got so much readily-available moveset potential thanks to her fighting games that she'd make the jump very, very well, I think. At the least, she'd have a moveset that's very aesthetically unique from just about anyone in the current roster.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

Touhou is niche but it is pretty much the biggest Japanese Indie game since Doujins are Indies, has been around since the 90s if we count PC-98, has its own conventions, and is a world record holder for most prolific Indie series or something like that.

Reimu is a most wanted for me but I do worry she'll get the Hero treatment in the West.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Don't count your chickens until they hatch. And we already have one Microsoft rep in the pass, save the hype for later.



Touhou imo is quite niche, but at the same time, they have a hand in the Japanese indie market.

I’m saying what would happen

Although pretty much no matter what pack master chief is in if it happens it would apocalypse the internet

 

[Ivander]

I think Sakurai could possibly make Reimu work for the West depending on how she is shown. With Hero, aside from Dragon Quest's popularity in the West, the other thing that sorta got people not caring was the fact that Hero is a sword character. With Terry, while people didn't know who he was and compared him to Ken, once people saw how he played in Sakurai's demonstration after his initial reveal, a good number of people's stance changed on him and people began to lean toward him.
If Reimu were to be the 5th DLC character, they would need to sell people on design, moveset and who she is for people who don't know her.
-First the design:

Spoiler

When it comes to the design, Reimu is basically a shrine maiden. It sounds basic on paper. But that being said, she has a very distinct design that really helps differ her from the rest of the Smash cast. With Hero, people compared him to Goku and Link. With Terry, people compared him to Ken. Reimu has no one even remotely similar to her in Smash. This allows her to fit in into the Smash cast with her own unique look to her while not taking any uniqueness away from the rest of the cast.
-Second, her gameplay. This I feel is what can really help her case in winning those who don't know her. She is a shrine maiden from a Shoot-em up series focused on dodging a ton of enemy bullets. Just from the concept alone means you have alot of chance to surprise people with her moveset, especially if they do go all ham and flash with her.
Just the idea of people seeing her shrine maiden look, thinking of her as a kind of magic user, to suddenly seeing her firing her spell cards and magic like frickin' laser beams and whatnot. Inspiring her gameplay around the Shoot-em Up genre would not only give her lots of originality for those who like original movesets, but also win over people who love Shoot-em Ups.
-Third, who she is. After Sakurai's showings of Hero, Banjo and Terry, it wouldn't be surprising if Sakurai did the same for Fighter 5. Considering how Sakurai's showing of Terry and his knowledge of SNK helped people warm up to Terry, I'm sure he could do a very good showing of Reimu as well and get people up to date on who she is and her genre.

Basically, if all 3 are handled well, especially her gameplay, I'm sure Reimu would be able to win over people who don't know her or her series.

 

[Deleted member]

My feelings toward Touhou are similar to my feelings towards Erdrick and Terry; I didn't want them because I've never played their games, but I'm confident that if Sakurai wanted to put Reimu in, he would be able to put in enough love, obscure trivia and fun attacks to win me over to playing her.

At the very least I might be able to understand half the things happening in this music video.

At the moment though, I'd rather have Quote as an "Indie rep".

I never played Persona before but I loved his playstyle. I never played Xenosaga but I watched enough of the animation as well as looked at her design which got me hooked.

Touhou is niche but it is pretty much the biggest Japanese Indie game since Doujins are Indies, has been around since the 90s if we count PC-98, has its own conventions, and is a world record holder for most prolific Indie series or something like that.

Reimu is a most wanted for me but I do worry she'll get the Hero treatment in the West.

She is guaranteed to get Hero treatment. There's gonna be writeups and Twitter threads online should she make it just watch.

 

[TheTuninator]

Touhou is niche but it is pretty much the biggest Japanese Indie game since Doujins are Indies, has been around since the 90s if we count PC-98, has its own conventions, and is a world record holder for most prolific Indie series or something like that.

Reimu is a most wanted for me but I do worry she'll get the Hero treatment in the West.

I'm sure she would, but I think being a cute female shrine maiden will get her pretty far, even if she looks "anime". If they really want to pander to the West they could always center the reveal video around Bad Apple (although I'd rather have something original).

 

[Deleted member]

I'm sure she would, but I think being a cute female shrine maiden will get her pretty far, even if she looks "anime". If they really want to pander to the West they could always center the reveal video around Bad Apple (although I'd rather have something original).

Heh, as much as the Smash community has quite the ire for anime-looking characters. And this is ironic coming from a community that has cancers wanting an anime character in. So ironic. So confusing.

Reimu could also be a worthy female rep who has elements of Japanese culture well-written into it. This is interesting in its own right.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Reimu's got so much readily-available moveset potential thanks to her fighting games that she'd make the jump very, very well, I think. At the least, she'd have a moveset that's very aesthetically unique from just about anyone in the current roster.

I have no doubt that if she makes it in that she'll probably have a fun-as-hell moveset that will set her apart from the other fighters.
It's just that if she gets in, it'll take a bit for me to warm up to her rather than insta-hype-in-a-can since I don't have a personal connection or any stake in seeing her in. I'll be happy for her fans at the very least, and won't begrudge her inclusion after the fact.

 

[TheTuninator]

I think Sakurai could possibly make Reimu work for the West depending on how she is shown. With Hero, aside from Dragon Quest's popularity in the West, the other thing that sorta got people not caring was the fact that Hero is a sword character. With Terry, while people didn't know who he was and compared him to Ken, once people saw how he played in Sakurai's demonstration after his initial reveal, a good number of people's stance changed on him and people began to lean toward him.
If Reimu were to be the 5th DLC character, they would need to sell people on design, moveset and who she is for people who don't know her.
-First the design:

Spoiler

When it comes to the design, Reimu is basically a shrine maiden. It sounds basic on paper. But that being said, she has a very distinct design that really helps differ her from the rest of the Smash cast. With Hero, people compared him to Goku and Link. With Terry, people compared him to Ken. Reimu has no one even remotely similar to her in Smash. This allows her to fit in into the Smash cast with her own unique look to her while not taking any uniqueness away from the rest of the cast.
-Second, her gameplay. This I feel is what can really help her case in winning those who don't know her. She is a shrine maiden from a Shoot-em up series focused on dodging a ton of enemy bullets. Just from the concept alone means you have alot of chance to surprise people with her moveset, especially if they do go all ham and flash with her. Just the idea of people seeing her shrine maiden look, thinking of her as a kind of magic user, to suddenly seeing her firing her spell cards and magic like frickin' laser beams and whatnot. Inspiring her gameplay around the Shoot-em Up genre would not only give her lots of originality for those who like original movesets, but also win over people who love Shoot-em Ups.
-Third, who she is. After Sakurai's showings of Hero, Banjo and Terry, it wouldn't be surprising if Sakurai did the same for Fighter 5. Considering how Sakurai's showing of Terry and his knowledge of SNK helped people warm up to Terry, I'm sure he could do a very good showing of Reimu as well and get people up to date on who she is and her genre.

Basically, if all 3 are handled well, especially her gameplay, I'm sure Reimu would be able to win over people who don't know her or her series.

Well said! Reimu is essentially the poster child for "whether or not the character fun to play as is more important than whether the character is recognized by everyone".

I have no doubt that if she makes it in that she'll probably have a fun-as-hell moveset that will set her apart from the other fighters.
It's just that if she gets in, it'll take a bit for me to warm up to her rather than insta-hype-in-a-can since I don't have a personal connection or any stake in seeing her in. I'll be happy for her fans at the very least, and won't begrudge her inclusion after the fact.

Very fair!

 

[Deleted member]

I have no doubt that if she makes it in that she'll probably have a fun-as-hell moveset that will set her apart from the other fighters.
It's just that if she gets in, it'll take a bit for me to warm up to her rather than insta-hype-in-a-can since I don't have a personal connection or any stake in seeing her in. I'll be happy for her fans at the very least, and won't begrudge her inclusion after the fact.

The same could be said for me with Joker. Kinda insta-hype for me since I did have a small background on the franchise and having him in expanded my interest.

Reimu would also be the same for me since a fanfiction author I know writes so much Touhou stuff and has been writing Touhou x Smash fanfics for as long as I remember. Can't wait to see his work become actual hard canon.

 

[Deleted member]

I know next to nothing about Touhou outside of A. Bullet-Hell, B. Cute Girls, C. Absolutely incredible fan products and D. Some of the best dang game music literally ever. I certainly wouldn't mind it in Smash, and have been meaning to play the series proper for years now.

However, this alone gives the series all the merit it needs to be worthy of Smash.


I saw this video well over a decade ago before I even knew what Touhou (Or even most internet things) was and it's still the most magical thing I've ever stumbled upon in my entire internet career. It is literally engrained into my psyche.

Native Faith best Touhou song. Says the man with no Touhou experience.

Kero Kero.

If you wanna know what sold me on Touhou for Smash, it was definitely the music.

 

[Lamperouge]

I wouldn't be against Reimu.

Ultimate has done a great job so far of getting me interested in franchises that were previously unknown to me, and I have no doubts that it could do the same for Touhou.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

This whole Touhou convo at the very least reminded me of this vector icon I made a long time ago for potential Smash 5 newcomers.

I might remake it to be in line with the stock icon aesthetic.

 

[TheTuninator]

If you wanna know what sold me on Touhou for Smash, it was definitely the music.

There's certainly no shortage of great Touhou BGM. I want to be able to jam to this one, it's a certified banger.

 

[Deleted member]

I wouldn't be against Reimu.

Ultimate has done a great job so far of getting me interested in franchises that were previously unknown to me, and I have no doubts that it could do the same for Touhou.

Sadly, Persona was the only franchise I got into because of the Fighters Pass. I was an SNK fangirl long before Terry was announced. For Touhou it meant another franchise to get myself invested in.

Touhou would end the pass on a positive note. A Japanese indie rep would perfectly encapsulate the pass as a conclusion, being that the game paid attention to popukar indie reps.

 

[NoBS]

Undertale video got just as many views despite 2.8 million sales iirc.

Maybe, I worded wrong. 'Relatively' would've been better. It's kinda weird that there seems to be some kind of barrier when it comes to reputation.


Not on level of obsecurity of Touhou in west. That's for sure.

Master chief is a literal who there so I don’t know what you’re talking about. Not only is the fps genre not as popular there, they don’t really game on pc and there were legit hardly any Xbox there. Generally people don’t know him.

 

[PK-remling Fire]

If Reimu did get in, I would prefer it if her design incorporated ZUN's art style. That'd make her both memorable and pretty distinct from the more "anime" characters. Plus seeing ZUN's art in 3d and fully animated would be nightmarish fun to see

 

[IceKitsune]

If you wanna know what sold me on Touhou for Smash, it was definitely the music.

I'm not much of a fan of Touhou; I'm absolute garbage at Bullet Hell games so I could never really get into them, but the music in these games is just amazing. The music alone would make me happy if a Touhou rep got in especially with the number of songs SNK got.

 

[TheTuninator]

This whole Touhou convo at the very least reminded me of this vector icon I made a long time ago for potential Smash 5 newcomers.
View attachment 246112
I might remake it to be in line with the stock icon aesthetic.

This is really cool! Would love to see the updated one if you ever do remake it.

 

[GKMLTTSB]

I know next to nothing about Touhou outside of A. Bullet-Hell, B. Cute Girls, C. Absolutely incredible fan products and D. Some of the best dang game music literally ever. I certainly wouldn't mind it in Smash, and have been meaning to play the series proper for years now.

However, this alone gives the series all the merit it needs to be worthy of Smash.

I saw this video well over a decade ago before I even knew what Touhou (Or even most internet things) was and it's still the most magical thing I've ever stumbled upon in my entire internet career. It is literally engrained into my psyche.

Native Faith best Touhou song. Says the man with no Touhou experience.

Kero Kero.

Related to this - the IOSYS vids are probably one of the first things that come to mind for a lot of people when they think of Touhou.
Catchy and fun with great Flash work.

Throwing in the some of them to fan the flames of nostalgia.

Spoiler: Vidjas

And not IOSYS, but a PatchuMirin for good measure.

Touhou fanworks are best fanworks.