Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Ivander]

I'm not sure what you mean. If Tharja can be removed as a trophy then how can Morrigan be fair game? If Mai can't be in a stage background in that design then how can Morrigan be a fighter? The only way would be covering entirely her cleavage. Will it be Morrigan anymore? Would Mai still be Mai if Sakurai decided to cover up entirely a character from a series he loves? That's where I am going with this right now.

Sakurai didn't want to put Mai cause her most common appearance in KOF suggests she's very sexy.

Tharja was removed likely because she could be upskirted.
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...rtwork).png/revision/latest?cb=20190810134754
All she has for her lower region is that flap. Mai's outfit is very similar, in which she only has the flap covering her lower region. That is CERO's issue is that they dislike outfits that can be "looked up", which both have. Breasts and sexiness weren't an issue, especially when there are official artworks and poses for Mai that are super tame.
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...iranui..jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110903030152
In this pose, she's not flaunting her breasts or sexiness. Heck, there's next to nothing exposed aside from her legs, much like Lyn from Fire Emblem when she's summoned from the Assist trophy. A pose like this would be more than acceptable and yet, CERO still had issues just because you can look up her outfit and see her panties.

Meanwhile, Morrigan does not have that, much like Samus and Bayonetta.
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...Costume.png/revision/latest?cb=20111009210408
She's wearing a dress-like leotard and her lower skin is covered with pink leggings. No chance for pantyshots and whatnot. And if the cleavage were to be an issue, her top can be expanded and it practically changes nothing design-wise or character-wise about her. Capcom has done so before.

Spoiler: Large image

Basically, CERO sees shorts and suits as fair game, even on sexy characters, compared to outfits that can be looked up. Morrigan's outfit is not that different from a swimsuit, she can't be "looked up", whatever skin she would have on her lower region is already covered and if her upper outfit did become an issue, it can be expanded and it would be far from drastic.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Oh god the Geno thread would be on literal fire.

I think the reference is eluding me, though. What's that got to do with Terry or SNK? Anyone more well versed with SNK have a clue?

It's probably because he's hot.

 

[P1ZZ4CHU]

You're (probably?) joking, but a Namco launch title to the greatest selling console of all time, the first Ridge Racer to feature a human on the game cover, and a racing rep that actually fights with and inside of a car would be kinda dope. An RR rep would be unexpected as heck bring so much salt, but it has merit. I'd imagine representation from all of the games, but RR5's soundtrack was notable for being all over the place because of the talent involved. Apparently, the game was a nice balance of being realistic but super arcadey and accessible.

I just want to hear the Smash interpretation of Rare Hero.

 

[osby]

Oh god the Geno thread would be on literal fire.

I think the reference is eluding me, though. What's that got to do with Terry or SNK? Anyone more well versed with SNK have a clue?

Someone in the Ultimate Social mentioned this:

Terry's Japanese name is Teri Bogado. When you put both words' last characters together in reverse, it's dori/dolly.

 

[Ornl]

Censorship and hypocrisy about Mai confirms that Bayonetta's announcement as a ballot choice was a lie :
"Bayonetta was the first pick among realisable characters" - Sakurai
Even though Bayonetta had actually been in the top position of the ballot, the Nintendo team should have excluded her for similar reasons. Off, there was an adaptation work for this character, then Bayonetta became second-party. The reason I suspect Sakurai of lying is to have disguised a contract between Nintendo and PlatiniumGames. By pretending that Bayonetta's character is the #1 ballot choice, he would have protected Nintendo from dealing a character slot in Smash Bros for license exclusivity. In my opinion, it isn't Sakurai who would have decided to add Bayonetta, nor the Smash Bros community. It was Big N. The strategy would be to make believe that such a non-legitimate choice of new Fighter would be legitimized by the European community best choice.

More content about the rigged ballot rumor (Bayonetta data minded) : link.

 

[Flik]

Terry's codename is Dolly. I want you to imagine the madness if Dolly was datamined, instead of Brave.

I summon my fellow brazillian Smash Bros in attack mode.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I summon my fellow brazillian Smash Bros in attack mode.

As a brazilian, I have been summoned.

If it interests you, there's a brazilian Undertale hack where that character replaces Flowey.

 

[Deleted member]

Man. How did we go from Brave to the 4d Chess name "Dolly?

 

[Schnee117]

Ban. How did we go from Brave to the 4d Chess name "Dolly?

They noticed people sussed Brave out and were like
"****, let's make it harder in case this happens again"

 

[TheCJBrine]

Censorship and hypocrisy about Mai confirms that Bayonetta's announcement as a ballot choice was a lie :
"Bayonetta was the first pick among realisable characters" - Sakurai
Even though Bayonetta had actually been in the top position of the ballot, the Nintendo team should have excluded her for similar reasons. Off, there was an adaptation work for this character, then Bayonetta became second-party. The reason I suspect Sakurai of lying is to have disguised a contract between Nintendo and PlatiniumGames. By pretending that Bayonetta's character is the #1 ballot choice, he would have protected Nintendo from dealing a character slot in Smash Bros for license exclusivity. In my opinion, it isn't Sakurai who would have decided to add Bayonetta, nor the Smash Bros community. It was Big N. The strategy would be to make believe that such a non-legitimate choice of new Fighter would be legitimized by the European community best choice.

More content about the rigged ballot rumor (Bayonetta data minded) : link.

I don’t get it, they still would’ve had to deal with CERO whom cares mostly about upskirts/panty shots. Bayonetta is fine because she’s still covered up and has no panty shots.

 

[Deleted member]

They noticed people sussed Brave out and were like
"****, let's make it harder in case this happens again"

The worst part is that I would have immediately assumed it was Geno just from the name alone.

 

[NurpNurp]

Censorship and hypocrisy about Mai confirms that Bayonetta's announcement as a ballot choice was a lie :
"Bayonetta was the first pick among realisable characters" - Sakurai
Even though Bayonetta had actually been in the top position of the ballot, the Nintendo team should have excluded her for similar reasons. Off, there was an adaptation work for this character, then Bayonetta became second-party. The reason I suspect Sakurai of lying is to have disguised a contract between Nintendo and PlatiniumGames. By pretending that Bayonetta's character is the #1 ballot choice, he would have protected Nintendo from dealing a character slot in Smash Bros for license exclusivity. In my opinion, it isn't Sakurai who would have decided to add Bayonetta, nor the Smash Bros community. It was Big N. The strategy would be to make believe that such a non-legitimate choice of new Fighter would be legitimized by the European community best choice.

More content about the rigged ballot rumor (Bayonetta data minded) : link.

Why would they need to use a Smash "slot" as a bargaining chip? I really don't understand what the logic is here. We knew Bayo wasn't number 1 in the ballot when Sakurai said "realisable" and lo and behold, we have more ballott inspired votes in Ultimate now (Banjo-Kazooie, K. Rool, Dark Samus, Chrom, Belmonts). I don't get the conspiracy

 

[PhantomShab]

Censorship and hypocrisy about Mai confirms that Bayonetta's announcement as a ballot choice was a lie :
"Bayonetta was the first pick among realisable characters" - Sakurai
Even though Bayonetta had actually been in the top position of the ballot, the Nintendo team should have excluded her for similar reasons. Off, there was an adaptation work for this character, then Bayonetta became second-party. The reason I suspect Sakurai of lying is to have disguised a contract between Nintendo and PlatiniumGames. By pretending that Bayonetta's character is the #1 ballot choice, he would have protected Nintendo from dealing a character slot in Smash Bros for license exclusivity. In my opinion, it isn't Sakurai who would have decided to add Bayonetta, nor the Smash Bros community. It was Big N. The strategy would be to make believe that such a non-legitimate choice of new Fighter would be legitimized by the European community best choice.

More content about the rigged ballot rumor (Bayonetta data minded) : link.

The Smash Ballot being rigged has been public knowledge for a long time now. Plus anyone with common sense knew it from day 1.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

About Dolly: there’s this

It could be for trains? I'm not sure where this codename came from. Maybe I should page the Terry expert @8bit_Spazzy pic.twitter.com/wbNuRbQUpc

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) November 6, 2019

Isn’t Terry’s home stage in Fatal Fury games a train?

 

[blackghost]

Censorship and hypocrisy about Mai confirms that Bayonetta's announcement as a ballot choice was a lie :
"Bayonetta was the first pick among realisable characters" - Sakurai
Even though Bayonetta had actually been in the top position of the ballot, the Nintendo team should have excluded her for similar reasons. Off, there was an adaptation work for this character, then Bayonetta became second-party. The reason I suspect Sakurai of lying is to have disguised a contract between Nintendo and PlatiniumGames. By pretending that Bayonetta's character is the #1 ballot choice, he would have protected Nintendo from dealing a character slot in Smash Bros for license exclusivity. In my opinion, it isn't Sakurai who would have decided to add Bayonetta, nor the Smash Bros community. It was Big N. The strategy would be to make believe that such a non-legitimate choice of new Fighter would be legitimized by the European community best choice.

More content about the rigged ballot rumor (Bayonetta data minded) : link.

while I'm clearly biased on this issue we've already discussed on this thread that bayo from an outfit perspective doesnt have the issues palutena, tharja, or mai have.

2. for the love of god let the ballot go. It has nothing to do with current speculation or the new info learned about characters' inclusion. its been *looks at calendar* like 4 years now.

 

[Door Key Pig]

So uh

two leaks are still standing for FP5: Phoenix Wright (Terry was dropped Nov 6; not the Sephiroth variant I don’t think as that stipulated PW would be revealed with the Terry presentation which didn’t happen) and KOS-MOS (drunken cat leak which claimed Banjo’s codename was Buddy, assuming they’re the same poster). KOS-MOS is also backed up by the total lack of Bandai Namco Mii costumes up till now. The Namco rep COULD also be TOS’s Lloyd Irving, but in a post Hero world, I think his Mii costume is more likely to return along with Heihachi’s as Heihachi’s wasn’t in the Terry costume set even though Akira and Jacky were. It’s also unlikely we’ll see two fighting game characters.

But KOS-MOS means three JRPG characters...

 

[Rie Sonomura]

But KOS-MOS means three JRPG characters...

Well I mean true

but also, she’s more aesthetically different from Hero and Joker than Lloyd would be

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Well I mean true

but also, she’s more aesthetically different from Hero and Joker than Lloyd would be

This is why we add The Prince of All Cosmos, I don't think anyone has any objections to him!

Really, I don't think I've ever seen anyone express distaste for the character.

 

[SNEKeater]

Dunno why with this VGA talk people forget about 2 very likely candidates, Dante and Leon/Jill. Which are games that are quite popular and also will have presence on the awards with RE 2 Remake most likely having a shot at GotY along Ultimate.

Yeah. If we will have a reveal at TGA I think the character would be one that appeals to the west like Doomslayer, maybe also one who appeals to the japanese audience, like Crash or Dante.
Resident Evil is a strong option too. Even if I think Namco has good chances for FP5 I have a hard time imagining a character from them in the Game Awards, honestly.

Maybe they are obvious picks and we will be surprised but as I said, TGA reveal makes me think of these characters. Also some unexpected characters like 2B could happen, but we already had a Square rep in this pass.

About Ultimate being nominated, I wouldn't be sure. They usually 'forget' about the games released in december, like happened to games like Xenoblade 2, Final Fantasy XV or The Last Guardian.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Thinking about what Sakurai said about being fun to play, what unique gimmick could KOS-MOS or Lloyd bring? Haven't played so I wouldn't know

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Thinking about what Sakurai said about being fun to play, what unique gimmick could KOS-MOS or Lloyd bring? Haven't played so I wouldn't know

Having played Xenosaga 1 and 2 (and project X Zone 1) KOS-MOS is a combat android who can turn her arm into a cannon or drill, use Gatling guns, and her signature X-Buster move which is a wide volley laser blast in front of her

 

[Fenriraga]

People still acting like the ballot isn't the reason every character came back and was the main factor in getting characters like, The Belmonts, , the DQ heroes and probably even .

Even if Bayo didn't "win" the ballot, her relevancy at the time no doubt at least had her up there. And as we know, work on Ultimate began somewhere around the time the final Smash 4 direct happened. Out of all the characters we got in Ultimate, it wouldn't surprise me that Bayo was the most "Realizable" to be the final DLC character while they worked out securing the others for Ultimate, since Plat and Nintendo are so close.

The ballot was a stealth survey for Ultimate, and Bayo still had more than enough popularity at the time. Therefore, it doesn't matter if she won or not, because our "Winner" was a new Smash game so soon after. Case closed.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

Terry's codename is Dolly. I want you to imagine the madness if Dolly was datamined, instead of Brave.

As someone who likes to watch a good ****storm, I feel we missed out big time.

 

[KatKit]

Oh god the Geno thread would be on literal fire.

I think the reference is eluding me, though. What's that got to do with Terry or SNK? Anyone more well versed with SNK have a clue?

It might be wordplay on the ending of his surname and first name.

Terry Bogard.
Bogardo Teri
Do Ri
Dolly.

What people haven't pointed out, however, is that it's probably referencing the 176th Street/11th Street, etc. themes from Fatal Fury; he's a street brawler who has a bunch of theme songs with "street" in the title. 通り isn't as much of a stretch, to be honest.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Having played Xenosaga 1 and 2 (and project X Zone 1) KOS-MOS is a combat android who can turn her arm into a cannon or drill, use Gatling guns, and her signature X-Buster move which is a wide volley laser blast in front of her

Yes, but does she have any new mechanic exclusive to her? I took a look at her thread and saw a good variety of weapons, but almost no mechanics.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

Are we really doing the "unga bunga Bayonetta bad and the Smash ballot was rigged against my favorite character" discourse again? That **** was three years ago and a ton of people wanted Bayonetta, let it go and stop treating the Smash ballot like it was some serious political election.

Also we all know Bayo and Mai's situations are nothing alike. Even in her source game Bayo doesn't show nearly as much skin as Mai does and the game doesn't flaunt her huge bouncing breasts in your face at all times. Compared to Mai, Bayo is actually pretty ****ing tame in terms of sexualization

 

[Deleted member]

But KOS-MOS means three JRPG characters...

Eh. 1/3rd of the cast originated from platformers, and even more if you count series like Metroid or Kid Icarus.

Really, genre representation has never been important since the start of Smash Bros.

 

[Gold Lannister]

Could someone tell me if Smash Bros can compete for Game of the Year (GOTY) at the Game Awards?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

The closest thing we have to Kosmos in smash right now is Megaman, since they both rely on projectiles, but Kosmos also has a laser sword so thats different enough right?

People still acting like the ballot isn't the reason every character came back and was the main factor in getting characters like, The Belmonts, and probably even .

Even if Bayo didn't "win" the ballot, her relevancy at the time no doubt at least had her up there. And as we know, work on Ultimate began somewhere around the time the final Smash 4 direct happened. Out of all the characters we got in Ultimate, it wouldn't surprise me that Bayo was the most "Realizable" to be the final DLC character while they worked out securing the others for Ultimate, since Plat and Nintendo are so close.

The ballot was a stealth survey for Ultimate, and Bayo still had more than enough popularity at the time. Therefore, it doesn't matter if she won or not, because our "Winner" was a new Smash game so soon after. Case closed.

I'm honestly convinced that Bayonetta was meant for Ultimate but was finished early enough that they decided to dump her into Smash 4 as a bonus DLC or something.

It's mostly the stage that makes me think this because all the new stages from Ultimate had characters showing up in the background as cameos and Umbra clock tower does this as well.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Does anyone else just want the most ridiculous characters now? I’m not saying I want characters like Freddy Fa Bear, but maybe like Rash from BattleToads or NiGHTs.

I think my final characters I’d actually really die for are geno and doom slayer, however I’m kinda into the wild ideas like Phoenix Wright or the above mention.

Dan Fortesque, Tomba and Sgt. Cortez are my never ever picks.

And now that I think about it, Johnny Cage! It'd be funny to bust Wario's balls with the nut punch.

 

[Droodle]

Thinking about what Sakurai said about being fun to play, what unique gimmick could KOS-MOS or Lloyd bring? Haven't played so I wouldn't know

It's been a long time since I played Tales of Symphonia, but Tales of Vesperia had an Overlimit system.

Basically attacking an enemy gives you overlimit, and that gives you less lag on attacks and stronger specials etc as well as access to Burst artes, which can be comboed from specials. Essentially a Tales character like Lloyd/Yuri would play like a fighting game character, but with a disjointed sword.

If we want to get really obscure, Tales games make your specials better the more you use them. So using the same thing the 100th time, is stronger than using the same thing the 1st time.

KOS-MOS has a ton of potential because she has a ton of Nanomachines, son. She can transform these into guns, swords, bows, scythes, etc, on the go. That in and of itself is a pretty unique gimmick.

 

[TheTuninator]

Yes, but does she have any new mechanic exclusive to her? I took a look at her thread and saw a good variety of weapons, but almost no mechanics.

I don't think every newcomer necessarily needs to have a "gimmick", to be fair. For example, Corrin in SSB4 was a great character with a visually interesting moveset who was a lot of fun to play and didn't have any gimmicks.

 

[Sysreq]

Yes, but does she have any new mechanic exclusive to her? I took a look at her thread and saw a good variety of weapons, but almost no mechanics.

What mechanics do Banjo and Kazooie bring except limiting the number of times you can use a move?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Dan Fortesque, Tomba and Sgt. Cortez are my never ever picks.

And now that I think about it, Johnny Cage! It'd be funny to bust Wario's balls with the nut punch.

Fortesque Is also my never ever pick, he would fit in perfectly! But good luck convincing Sony to let him in lol

 

[osby]

Are we really doing the "unga bunga Bayonetta bad and the Smash ballot was rigged against my favorite character" discourse again? That **** was three years ago and a ton of people wanted Bayonetta, let it go and stop treating the Smash ballot like it was some serious political election.

Also we all know Bayo and Mai's situations are nothing alike. Even in her source game Bayo doesn't show nearly as much skin as Mai does and the game doesn't flaunt her huge bouncing breasts in your face at all times. Compared to Mai, Bayo is actually pretty ****ing tame in terms of sexualization

Sometimes I wonder how they handled Bayo's sexiness so well.

Then I remember she's designed by a woman.

 

[Ornl]

for the love of god let the ballot go. It has nothing to do with current speculation or the new info learned about characters' inclusion. its been *looks at calendar* like 4 years now.

I think analyzing the past to understand the present isn't useless.
-> Understand why Bayonetta can be seen as an exception, unlike 2B, Morrigan, Velvet Crowe, Kasumi...
-> Know that behind the motivations of Sakurai and the community (the ballot), there is also Nintendo and its mercantile interests. This partly explains Joker, Hero and Terry, and the new compagnies (or sub-compagnies) Atlus, Enix, Microsoft then SNK.
-> Monitor any new serial recoveries. Especially that Sakurai said look for recent characters.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Sabi: All I know is that my gut says maybe. ;-)

"Tell my wife I said...hello."

Alright, after the situation with Mai, I think Shantae is unlikely. Not because of Shantae's outfit, which while revealing wouldn't be an issue.

Shantae already appears in Smash.

The problem is that Shantae has some Gainaxing when belly-dancing to summon into an animal which would be a part of her moveset, and Sakurai likes making the third party characters as accurate as possible. That was probably one of the biggest issues with Mai.

Well, the Mai in the SNES version of Fatal Fury 2 doesn't have any Gainaxing. So he could just be accurate to that.

 

[TheTuninator]

I think analyzing the past to understand the present isn't useless.
-> Understand why Bayonetta can be seen as an exception, unlike 2B, Morrigan, Velvet Crowe, Kasumi...
-> Know that behind the motivations of Sakurai and the community (the ballot), there is also Nintendo and its mercantile interests. This partly explains Joker, Hero and Terry, and the new compagnies (or sub-compagnies) Atlus, Enix, Microsoft then SNK.
-> Monitor any new serial recoveries. Especially that Sakurai said look for recent characters.

Bayonetta's normal outfit is no more sexually explicit than Zero Suit Samus's. Bayonetta is an extremely sexual character, to be sure, but this is expressed through her personality and her stripping, both of which are toned down heavily in Smash. She never wears anything skimpier than the equivalent of a one-piece bathing suit in SSBU.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I don't think every newcomer necessarily needs to have a "gimmick", to be fair. For example, Corrin in SSB4 was a great character with a visually interesting moveset who was a lot of fun to play and didn't have any gimmicks.

What mechanics do Banjo and Kazooie bring except limiting the number of times you can use a move?

Oh, I'm aware no one needs new mechanics, I was just referring to what I think the other poster was asking. And I'm honestly curious, since my only contact with Xeno is Xenoblade. So I'd like to know what KOS-MOS could bring to the table.

Corrin is also a very bad example imo, Tuninator, but honestly, I'd rather not get into that discussion.

 

[CharacterCrisisKing]

doom noises