Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Dark Bagel]

For totally unexpected picks:
1. Yuri Kozukata
2. Rathalos
3. Vincent (the painter)
4. Guile
5. Alucard

Playable Rathalos in a Smash game would single-handedly compel me to mail my wallet straight to Nintendo HQ.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Start picking your echo fighter of choice now.

Black Knight as a Ken tier echo. His neutral B is a stupid strong Blade Beam

 

[StormC]

I really like the Snowmads but Fredrik being such a lame duck ruins some of the appeal.

I'd unironically rather have Bashmaster as the leader.

 

[Deleted member]

For totally unexpected picks:
1. Yuri Kozukata
2. Rathalos
3. Vincent (the painter)
4. Guile
5. Alucard

We already have Vincent, though.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Alright. *I* got a question for you guys:

If you had to choose another franchise that would only be represented in Smash by a boss fight, the way Monster Hunter is, what would the franchise be, and what boss would you pick?

My answer would be the Seven Force fom Gunstar Heroes.

 

[Deleted member]

Alright. *I* got a question for you guys:

If you had to choose another franchise that would only be represented in Smash by a boss fight, the way Monster Hunter is, what would the franchise be, and what boss would you pick?

My pick would be the Seven Force fom Gunstar Heroes.

You get a like just for remembering Gunstar Heroes.

Anyways, I'd probably choose Shadow of the Colossus. Bosses really are the only way to rep the series.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Alright. *I* got a question for you guys:

If you had to choose another franchise that would only be represented in Smash by a boss fight, the way Monster Hunter is, what would the franchise be, and what boss would you pick?

My pick would be the Seven Force fom Gunstar Heroes.

Merely a boss fight? Uhhhhhhhhh Gremory from Bloodstained I suppose? It'd be an excuse for Silent Howling at least

 

[StormC]

Alright. *I* got a question for you guys:

If you had to choose another franchise that would only be represented in Smash by a boss fight, the way Monster Hunter is, what would the franchise be, and what boss would you pick?

My answer would be the Seven Force fom Gunstar Heroes.

Sans Undertale but as a boss battle.

 

[Dark Bagel]

Alright. *I* got a question for you guys:

If you had to choose another franchise that would only be represented in Smash by a boss fight, the way Monster Hunter is, what would the franchise be, and what boss would you pick?

My answer would be the Seven Force fom Gunstar Heroes.

It sounds nutty and will probably NEVER happen, but GLaDOS from Portal as a boss complete with new voice lines would be pretty amazing.

 

[Flyboy]

Alright. *I* got a question for you guys:

If you had to choose another franchise that would only be represented in Smash by a boss fight, the way Monster Hunter is, what would the franchise be, and what boss would you pick?

My answer would be the Seven Force fom Gunstar Heroes.

That is an INCREDIBLE choice. Honestly, I'm having a hard time considering one better. But if we stick with Treasure, I've wanted Mischief Makers in Smash since I was 9 years old so even just getting to fight The Beastector would be enough for me.

I'm also seconding GlaDOS. Oh, and Abobo!

 

[GoodGrief741]

Alright. *I* got a question for you guys:

If you had to choose another franchise that would only be represented in Smash by a boss fight, the way Monster Hunter is, what would the franchise be, and what boss would you pick?

My answer would be the Seven Force fom Gunstar Heroes.

Undertale. I don't think there's any point in attempting to represent it through a fighter, but a boss would be ideal.

Same points for Dark Souls.

 

[Flyboy]

Isn't most of the FE hate coming from, like, non-FE fans? I don't think swapping out Corrin would matter much.

I think it's a combination of things.

1. The Corrin timing - late in the DLC cycle, after we already had an FE veteran return.

2. The character and game not being that popular among fans - I remember being pretty upset about it because Fates seemed to be more than just not great, it had some downright offensive things that were going to be scrubbed from the English version (Soleil's infamous support) and while the games themselves ended up being generally on the "good" scale when they released, time has been very unkind to both Corrin as a character and to Fates as a whole, especially when Three Houses has been lighting the world on fire.

3. Non-fan reaction - The thing is, if even fans of a series aren't excited for a new rep from that series, why should people who don't know the series be excited? Part of the reason a TH rep is far more accepted and even among some wanted in this DLC cycle is because as a game it has blown up with great writing, characters people love, an intriguing story and world, and very clear moveset potential.

Any of these issues could have been avoided and overall lessened the fatigue. It was never a moveset problem because Corrin has one of the most unique FE movesets out there and represents a class that had not yet been represented in the Manakete. But unfortunately, by being an uninteresting and ultimately fairly unpopular character, the entire series is bearing the brunt of what Corrin wrought.

If a more popular character from FE with Corrin's moveset, like Tiki for example, had been in that spot, then FE fans at least would be far more excited. If a different promotional rep like Wonder Red or Elma had been in that spot, people would have been more excited. I can't say that if Corrin was added in Ultimate people would be excited since FE Warriors' weak roster was a major point of contention but being in the game that added Ridley and K. Rool I'm sure wouldn't have done the same amount of damage.

There are a lot of factors that could've been addressed to at least mitigate the blow. It all goes back to the initial point - if fans of a series overall can't get excited for a rep, there's no way non-fans can even get tangentially excited for it.

 

[Aetheri]

Alright. *I* got a question for you guys:

If you had to choose another franchise that would only be represented in Smash by a boss fight, the way Monster Hunter is, what would the franchise be, and what boss would you pick?

My answer would be the Seven Force fom Gunstar Heroes.

Diablo

 

[IAmGiles]

Assist trophy upgrades:

I would choose only Zelda characters if I could. But with the limitations...

Skull Kid
Waluigi (to stop the complaints and finally end it)
Shovel Knight
Alucard (SOTN is best Castlevania don't @ me)
Dillon (never played the game, but I love armadillos, and I feel we are sorely lacking Cowboys in Smash)

Boss series:

Someone already said Portal, Glados would be dope

It's be sick to fight the Hollow Knight as well

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

I think it's a combination of things.

1. The Corrin timing - late in the DLC cycle, after we already had an FE veteran return.

2. The character and game not being that popular among fans - I remember being pretty upset about it because Fates seemed to be more than just not great, it had some downright offensive things that were going to be scrubbed from the English version (Soleil's infamous support) and while the games themselves ended up being generally on the "good" scale when they released, time has been very unkind to both Corrin as a character and to Fates as a whole, especially when Three Houses has been lighting the world on fire.

3. Non-fan reaction - The thing is, if even fans of a series aren't excited for a new rep from that series, why should people who don't know the series be excited? Part of the reason a TH rep is far more accepted and even among some wanted in this DLC cycle is because as a game it has blown up with great writing, characters people love, an intriguing story and world, and very clear moveset potential.

Any of these issues could have been avoided and overall lessened the fatigue. It was never a moveset problem because Corrin has one of the most unique FE movesets out there and represents a class that had not yet been represented in the Manakete. But unfortunately, by being an uninteresting and ultimately fairly unpopular character, the entire series is bearing the brunt of what Corrin wrought.

If a more popular character from FE with Corrin's moveset, like Tiki for example, had been in that spot, then FE fans at least would be far more excited. If a different promotional rep like Wonder Red or Elma had been in that spot, people would have been more excited. I can't say that if Corrin was added in Ultimate people would be excited since FE Warriors' weak roster was a major point of contention but being in the game that added Ridley and K. Rool I'm sure wouldn't have done the same amount of damage.

There are a lot of factors that could've been addressed to at least mitigate the blow. It all goes back to the initial point - if fans of a series overall can't get excited for a rep, there's no way non-fans can even get tangentially excited for it.

I think part of it is also the growing amount of Fire Emblem fans in the fandom and their intensity, it creates a lot of pushback on non-fans, some of which feel ostracized in a fandom that's grown increasingly more anime. I myself am not much of a fan and I dislike most of modern Fire Emblem (though I did enjoy playing the GBA games with a friend), and while I recognize that Three Houses was a very good game and even have a house preference, I would never ever care for a character like Byleth or Edelgard. There shouldn't be blind hate towards the series from non-fans, but at the same time people who don't care about Fire Emblem or other anime-esque series should have their opinions respected as well.

Furthremore some fans just want to see other important Nintendo series gain reps instead. K. Rool was a huge victory and support for more DK attention is one of the reasons why there's so much support for Dixie Kong. Many Zelda fans want a new and unique rep when we basically have three Links, one of which was likely only brought back because of Everyone is Here. As a Pikmin fan I'm hoping for a second rep at all, even if it's just an echo like Louie likely would be. Hell, even some Pokemon fans are upset when their series is snubbed for having "too many reps" by Fire Emblem fans who have more reps than a lot of significant series. All in all I think both sides should calm down and just show each other some respect. The non-fans shouldn't show blind hate yet at the same time a lot of the fans shouldn't snub or act holier than thou either. Still, we're in a better position than the Smash 4 DLC cycle days so let's keep it up.

 

[Dannish]

https://twitter.com/PVMAGKVIDEOS/status/1173919279881867265

Thoughts?

 

[RileyXY1]

I don't think that this "S.M.A.S.H" theory is legitimate at all.

 

[StormC]

https://twitter.com/PVMAGKVIDEOS/status/1173919279881867265

Thoughts?

Nintendo didn’t form a multi-million dollar licensing agreement with 5 companies for a pun.

 

[Deleted member]

https://twitter.com/PVMAGKVIDEOS/status/1173919279881867265

Thoughts?

I'd love Hat Kid, but the letter theory isn't reliable. No way in Hell were characters like Joker and Banjo were chosen because their companies would fit the SMASH acronym.

 

[Flyboy]

https://twitter.com/PVMAGKVIDEOS/status/1173919279881867265

Thoughts?

Letter theory is the dumbest **** of all time and the fact that people are unironically trying to support the Smashboards equivalent of a justshowerthoughts post is sad.

Anyway the final character is Putt-Putt because of Humongous Entertainment.

 

[RileyXY1]

I find the idea that Nintendo chose characters simply because of the first letter of the names of their companies fairly ridiculous.

 

[Deleted member]

Alright. *I* got a question for you guys:

If you had to choose another franchise that would only be represented in Smash by a boss fight, the way Monster Hunter is, what would the franchise be, and what boss would you pick?

My answer would be the Seven Force fom Gunstar Heroes.

Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen is my favorite game from Capcom, so I'd be super down for either Grigori or Daimon in Smash as bosses.

Spoiler: Image of Grigori

Spoiler: Image of Daimon

 

[Dannish]

Letter theory is the dumbest **** of all time and the fact that people are unironically trying to support the Smashboards equivalent of a justshowerthoughts post is sad.

Anyway the final character is Putt-Putt because of Humongous Entertainment.

It'll clearly be Bomberman because Hudson.

 

[Deleted member]

It'll clearly be Bomberman because Hudson.

We don't joke about the dead here.

 

[KatKit]

Alright. *I* got a question for you guys:

If you had to choose another franchise that would only be represented in Smash by a boss fight, the way Monster Hunter is, what would the franchise be, and what boss would you pick?

Cuphead.

Almost any boss will do, to be honest.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Cuphead.

Almost any boss will do, to be honest.

I dunno if any of Cupheads bosses would feel right without Cuphead's animation. Which they wouldn't have in Smash...

 

[Opossum]

Which Three Houses character you thing they could add and how different he would be compared to others? I'll search about him before it gets revealed so i can be somewhat less dissapointed when that happens. I don't know **** about that game, fill me in.

Oh boy I get to post my Edelgard moveset again.

Spoiler

General playstyle description and justification:

Edelgard uses her signature axe, Aymr, in Smash Bros. She's the shortest of the current Fire Emblem cast, but not by a large margin. She's not very quick, about on par with Mii Swordfighter, while also being decently heavy due to her axe.

To offset these characteristics, her playstyle revolves around taking full control of and limiting the opponent's movement options, allowing her to more easily get a few solid hits in. In Fire Emblem Three Houses, one major new feature is the Battalion and Gambit system, which works off of the user's Charm stat and Authority level. By selecting a Gambit, a battalion of soldiers joins a unit for a group attack, and these can have various effects.

One common theme is limiting the target's options. Opponents can't counter attack, Gambits often leave Beast units dazed and unable to strike, and when used on normal enemies, they often prevent them from moving at all.

Edelgard's best combat ranks in Three Houses are Axes and Authority, which would make up her moveset here. This also showcases her personality, as someone who always has a plan and leaves nothing to chance. By eliminating the opponent's escape options, she forces them to face her head on, where she can then deliver a decisive blow.

Jab - A two-hit combo attack, wherein Edelgard hits the opponent in a chopping motion with her axe, alternating which side she swings from.

Dash Attack - While running, Edelgard swings her axe upward from the ground in an arching sweep.

Forward Tilt - A two-strike attack, similar to Meta Knight and Piranha Plant. On the first hit, Edelgard sweeps her axe from the side, and the second hit has her continuing the motion as she swings it downward from overhead.

Up Tilt - Edelgard swings her axe from the ground to above her head in an almost golf club-like motion.

Down Tilt - While crouching, Edelgard kicks outward while holding her axe close by.

Neutral Air - Edelgard swings Aymr in a complete circle around her body. If this move is held, she keeps performing this move and each subsequent swing gets a lightning effect with high hitstun.

Up Air - Edelgard performs a motion similar to Ike's old up air, but with a fire effect imbuing the axe.

Forward Air - Edelgard slams Aymr downward in front of her, and if the foe makes contact with the spiked end, they get, well, spiked.

Back Air - Edelgard swings Aymr behind her. If an opponent is hit, a small explosion-like fire effect activates and launches them backwards.

Down Air - Edelgard slams Aymr downward, falling downward with it. If she hits an opponent in the air with it, they both plummet straight down and, upon hitting the ground, the foe takes very high damage. The move has a lightning effect to reference the Lightning Axe art.

Forward Smash - Taken from her own Smash combat art, Edelgard leaps forward and smashes Aymr into the ground in front of her.

Up Smash - Edelgard thrusts Aymr skyward as a giant projection of the Crest of Seiros envelops it, the sigil doing rapid multi-hit damage before exploding.

Down Smash - Edelgard ducks down and spins Aymr along the ground in a circle as one fluid motion. Shortly afterwards, the circled area around her bursts into flames for an additional attack.

Pummel - Edelgard grabs the foe and bashes them with Aymr.

Forward Throw - Based on the Smite maneuver, Edelgard launches the foe forward with high knockback by swinging her axe at them. This is a powerful kill throw.

Back Throw - Edelgard throws the opponent, slamming them into the ground behind her.

Up Throw - Edelgard uses one hand to launch the foe skyward.

Down Throw - Edelgard throws the foe into the ground beneath her.

Neutral Special - Flickering Flower - Edelgard readies her stance as Aymr takes on a red glow. Upon releasing the button, she swings the axe with full force. If an opponent is hit by this move, they won't take much damage, but will receive massive hitstun as a small explosion effect holds them in place for a short while. Edelgard can then follow up with a strong Smash Attack, or regain space by leaving the foe there.

Side Special - Hand Axe - A simple projectile and one of Edelgard's faster attacks. Edelgard takes a small throwing axe and tosses it. It will then spin through the air as it flies, before hitting the ground and disappearing. If foes are hit with the blade, they will take much more damage than if hit with the handle. The blade will also do significant shield damage. While the move is fast, it cannot be spammed easily, as only one Hand Axe can be on the screen at a time per Edelgard.

Up Special - Raging Storm - Edelgard takes from one of her Critical Hit animations and leaps upward with Aymr held high, and then crashes downward at a diagonal. The move has a rising hitbox with Aymr's head, but it can be cancelled before reaching the full height. This, however, loses the hitbox. This attack acts as a mix between Cross Chop and Super Dedede Jump.

Down Special - Fusillade - Edelgard makes an exaggerated wave of her hand and yells "Now!" From the fourth wall, a volley of arrows from an unseen imperial battalion rains down in a column shaped area in front of her, covering the same amount of height as Palutena's up smash. This attack can be used for edge-guarding purposes, as airborne opponent's will be slightly pushed downward for each arrow that hits them. However, if Edelgard is in the air when she uses this move, only one arrow will be launched, reducing the move's effectiveness. This move also has a small cooldown after it's used, so use it wisely.

Final Smash - Raging Flames - Edelgard whacks a nearby foe with Aymr, triggering a cutscene as "Gambit Boost" flashes onto the screen. A cart full of explosives is wheeled toward the knocked down foe. Edelgard is joined by Byleth and Hubert. Edelgard gives the command as Hubert fires a Miasma toward the cart, the latter laughing all the while. The cart explodes on contact with the target as the cutscene ends and the foe is sent flying.

 

[KillerCage]

Alright. *I* got a question for you guys:

If you had to choose another franchise that would only be represented in Smash by a boss fight, the way Monster Hunter is, what would the franchise be, and what boss would you pick?

My answer would be the Seven Force fom Gunstar Heroes.

I would have said Omega (Photoshop) Flowey if it hadn't been for the inclusion of the Sans Mii Costume.
Otherwise I would say Nemesis from RE3.

 

[KatKit]

I dunno if any of Cupheads bosses would feel right without Cuphead's animation. Which they wouldn't have in Smash...

The boss (and maybe stage) can have the Cuphead animation. It'll visually clash with everything else, but that's not necessarily a bad thing (see: Space Jam, Amazing World of Gumball, and Roger Rabbit).

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I would, but I don't have Three Houses at the moment. Maybe someday....

Also I was thinking, if the roster were nothing but FE characters (with Mario & Luigi as guest fighters), how would people react?

I would unironically love a Fire Emblem fighting game made by Arc System Works.

 

[Deleted member]

I would unironically love a Fire Emblem fighting game made by Arc System Works.

^This, but diverse representation from whole series versus TH, Awakening, and Fates.

 

[TheCJBrine]

The boss (and maybe stage) can have the Cuphead animation. It'll visually clash with everything else, but that's not necessarily a bad thing (see: Space Jam, Amazing World of Gumball, and Roger Rabbit).

See also: Mr. Game & Watch, Pac-Land, Hanenbow, Dream Land GB, Mute City SNES.

 

[DarthEnderX]

See also: Mr. Game & Watch, Pac-Land, Hanenbow, Dream Land GB, Mute City SNES.

Those are all going backwards though. Dialing Smash's animation way down.

Doing a Cuphead boss would require cranking Smash's animation quality up.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

https://twitter.com/PVMAGKVIDEOS/status/1173919279881867265

Thoughts?

I don't have any because that tweet itself is thoughtless.

^This, but diverse representation from whole series versus TH, Awakening, and Fates.

Of course. I believe Arc Sys would do well, even with a 20 character roster like most of their starting ones.

I think part of it is also the growing amount of Fire Emblem fans in the fandom and their intensity, it creates a lot of pushback on non-fans, some of which feel ostracized in a fandom that's grown increasingly more anime. I myself am not much of a fan and I dislike most of modern Fire Emblem (though I did enjoy playing the GBA games with a friend), and while I recognize that Three Houses was a very good game and even have a house preference, I would never ever care for a character like Byleth or Edelgard. There shouldn't be blind hate towards the series from non-fans, but at the same time people who don't care about Fire Emblem or other anime-esque series should have their opinions respected as well.

Furthremore some fans just want to see other important Nintendo series gain reps instead. K. Rool was a huge victory and support for more DK attention is one of the reasons why there's so much support for Dixie Kong. Many Zelda fans want a new and unique rep when we basically have three Links, one of which was likely only brought back because of Everyone is Here. As a Pikmin fan I'm hoping for a second rep at all, even if it's just an echo like Louie likely would be. Hell, even some Pokemon fans are upset when their series is snubbed for having "too many reps" by Fire Emblem fans who have more reps than a lot of significant series. All in all I think both sides should calm down and just show each other some respect. The non-fans shouldn't show blind hate yet at the same time a lot of the fans shouldn't snub or act holier than thou either. Still, we're in a better position than the Smash 4 DLC cycle days so let's keep it up.

I would agree with this, except for the fact that nowadays anything Japanese is called anime, and the label of anime itself seems to be incredibly selective too. Y'all are complaining about Hero being an anime swordfighter when Isaac would literally be the exact same thing. It's a buzzword thrown around the community.

Another thing is that other important Nintendo series aren't really as important as Fire Emblem now. The last major Donkey Kong game was a port of Tropical Freeze that didn't make that much of an impact (though Tropical Freeze is a great game) and Pikmin 4 was Hey! Pikmin and Nintendo is too afraid to admit it (regardless, it tanked the series like Chibi-Robo Ziplash). The Legend of Zelda is already the most represented series in Smash (the only thing they could do more is give Young Link a mask moveset), so that's a non-point

Since Awakening, Fire Emblem has cemented itself as one of Nintendo's leading series, and Three Houses proves that more than ever. I would argue that Fire Emblem's representation since Sm4sh is more than justified given how the rise of the series has put it in a position to overcome many other Nintendo properties in terms of widespread sales and popularity. Also literally 3 of the Fire Emblem characters are low effort clones so they don't even really count. That's just Smash fans being mad about having a cherry on top of their cake.

TL;DR Calling characters anime is bull**** and Fire Emblem has become one of Nintendo's most prevalent properties, so it getting another character is more than justified.

 

[cj.]

Alright. *I* got a question for you guys:

If you had to choose another franchise that would only be represented in Smash by a boss fight, the way Monster Hunter is, what would the franchise be, and what boss would you pick?

My answer would be the Seven Force fom Gunstar Heroes.

Fernandez/Fernandeath from Waku Waku 7

 

[Deleted member]

Of course. I believe Arc Sys would do well, even with a 20 character roster like most of their starting ones.

I would agree with this, except for the fact that nowadays anything Japanese is called anime, and the label of anime itself seems to be incredibly selective too. Y'all are complaining about Hero being an anime swordfighter when Isaac would literally be the exact same thing. It's a buzzword thrown around the community.

Another thing is that other important Nintendo series aren't really as important as Fire Emblem now. The last major Donkey Kong game was a port of Tropical Freeze that didn't make that much of an impact (though Tropical Freeze is a great game) and Pikmin 4 was Hey! Pikmin and Nintendo is too afraid to admit it (regardless, it tanked the series like Chibi-Robo Ziplash). The Legend of Zelda is already the most represented series in Smash (the only thing they could do more is give Young Link a mask moveset), so that's a non-point

Since Awakening, Fire Emblem has cemented itself as one of Nintendo's leading series, and Three Houses proves that more than ever. I would argue that Fire Emblem's representation since Sm4sh is more than justified given how the rise of the series has put it in a position to overcome many other Nintendo properties in terms of widespread sales and popularity. Also literally 3 of the Fire Emblem characters are low effort clones so they don't even really count. That's just Smash fans being mad about having a cherry on top of their cake.

TL;DR Calling characters anime is bull**** and Fire Emblem has become one of Nintendo's most prevalent properties, so it getting another character is more than justified.

Damn it, TPC. Say something disagreeable for once.

 

[AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea]

If you had to choose another franchise that would only be represented in Smash by a boss fight, the way Monster Hunter is, what would the franchise be, and what boss would you pick?

Big John from Viewtiful Joe

 

[Zinith]

Alright. *I* got a question for you guys:

If you had to choose another franchise that would only be represented in Smash by a boss fight, the way Monster Hunter is, what would the franchise be, and what boss would you pick?

My answer would be the Seven Force fom Gunstar Heroes.

Alduin....

 

[Garteam]

Also I was thinking, if the roster were nothing but FE characters (with Mario & Luigi as guest fighters), how would people react?

Worthy sacrifice to get Sigurd into Smash.

 

[BZL8]

Alright. *I* got a question for you guys:

If you had to choose another franchise that would only be represented in Smash by a boss fight, the way Monster Hunter is, what would the franchise be, and what boss would you pick?

My answer would be the Seven Force fom Gunstar Heroes.

If Dark Souls can't get a playable rep, I can imagine a boss fight would work very well.