Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[DaybreakHorizon]

I'd advise not to harass people for a video game character for a video game.
I am sure Sakurai is fully aware of Sora's popularity. It's up to him and Nintendo to approach Disney.

As for trying to figure out the amount of fighters left with the CSS- do not do that.
There are four different versions of the CSS in the game for starters - the unstacked one with everyone, the stacked one with everyone, the unstacked one without Miis, and the stacked one without Miis.

They will also try to maximize their additions while they can. How the CSS looks won't determine business.

While I won't personally bother him, I do think Disney hiring John Drake is a good sign. At the very least he could bring a fresh perspective to negotiations with Nintendo if they approach Disney to negotiate for Sora.

I just hope they do.

Now that there will be more fighters passes, Sora now has a high chance of being playable. And I want Sora.

Here's why I only want Highly iconic 3rd party playable characters such as Sonic, Megaman, Pacman, Ryu, Simon, etc.

3rd party characters who aren't highly iconic, regardless of how iconic they are, don't do better than an assist trophy in my opinion, such as Shovel Knight, Yuri, and Shantae.

See, I'd agree, but your definition of "iconic" is skewed.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

See, I'd agree, but your definition of "iconic" is skewed.

I'm not surprised that you agree with me. Iconic means relating to the nature of an icon and being recognized as an icon. And we already have 2 3rd party fighters who aren't highly iconic, Bayonetta and Joker/Ren. And I already mentioned dozens of times that they are the only 3rd party playable characters that I wish were assist trophies for obvious reasons. Do you wish they were assist trophies too?

Also I was fine with Bayonetta being playable until Joker/Ren became a playable character.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

What Sora do ya'll think will hypothetically get in? Young KH 1 Sora, KH2 (aka the best version of) Sora, or old KH3 Sora?

KH2 Sora is easily his most iconic iteration. It was the main Sora design from KH2's release in 2005 to KH3 in 2018 (it's notable that he did get a new design in 2012 for 3D, but he returned to the KH2 design for 0.8 Final Chapter Prologue and the beginning of KH3). It's also referenced in Second Form in KH3, so Square Enix certainly hasn't forgot about it (Second Form also has the most Keyblades that transform into it, including the Kingdom Key, Starlight, and all of the DLC Keyblades, making for a total of 5).

That being said, I could also see KH3 Sora getting in based off of:
A). Disney negotiations (they'd want the most recent Sora)
and
B). Pure moveset potential. KH3 Sora has so much to offer in terms of a moveset that its a veritable playground coming up with one.

I'm not surprised that you agree with me. Iconic means relating to the nature of an icon and being recognized as an icon. And we already have 2 3rd party fighters who aren't highly iconic, Bayonetta and Joker/Ren. And I already mentioned dozens of times that they are the only 3rd party playable characters that I wish were assist trophies for obvious reasons. Do you wish they were assist trophies too?

Also I was fine with Bayonetta being playable until Joker/Ren became a playable character.

Except I don't agree with you.

See, I'd agree, but your definition of "iconic" is skewed.

Bayonetta and Joker are both iconic in their own rights. I will concede that Bayonetta is in an odd place for third parties given that she's practically a Nintendo character now, but Joker represents both the Persona and Shin Megami Tensei series, which are both incredibly iconic and historic to Nintendo.

Also, Banjo isn't really that iconic. Compared to Dragon Quest Sakurai hardly had much to say about Banjo-Kazooie or its impact/legacy. I guess you could say it helped shape the collectathon genre, but:
A). That genre was pretty much dead from 2000 (Banjo-Tooie) - 2017, when the genre saw a resurgence with Yooka-Laylee, A Hat in Time, and Super Mario Odyssey
and
B). Mario 64 did more for the genre than Banjo did, hence why Sakurai compared Banjo-Kazooie to Mario 64.

Your definition of "iconic" sounds more like "I like this character therefore I think they're iconic." Your opinion doesn't equal fact.

 

[DarthEnderX]

And we already have 2 3rd party fighters who aren't highly iconic, Bayonetta and Joker/Ren

I agree with this assessment.

 

[HyruleHero]

KH2 Sora is easily his most iconic iteration. It was the main Sora design from KH2's release in 2005 to KH3 in 2018 (it's notable that he did get a new design in 2012 for 3D, but he returned to the KH2 design for 0.8 Final Chapter Prologue and the beginning of KH3). It's also referenced in Second Form in KH3, so Square Enix certainly hasn't forgot about it (Second Form also has the most Keyblades that transform into it, including the Kingdom Key, Starlight, and all of the DLC Keyblades, making for a total of 5).

That being said, I could also see KH3 Sora getting in based off of:
A). Disney negotiations (they'd want the most recent Sora)
and
B). Pure moveset potential. KH3 Sora has so much to offer in terms of a moveset that its a veritable playground coming up with one.

While I agree that if negotiations went through KH3 Sora would be the version Disney would push but from a Nintendo perspective KH1 Sora is the iteration that appeared in all Nintendo exclusives. Honestly I would be happy with any version but due to me growing up playing KH1 for 13 years before I realised their was a sequel I would prefer KH1 Sora as the model used for the game.

 

[Impa4Smash]

KH2 Sora is easily his most iconic iteration. It was the main Sora design from KH2's release in 2005 to KH3 in 2018 (it's notable that he did get a new design in 2012 for 3D, but he returned to the KH2 design for 0.8 Final Chapter Prologue and the beginning of KH3). It's also referenced in Second Form in KH3, so Square Enix certainly hasn't forgot about it (Second Form also has the most Keyblades that transform into it, including the Kingdom Key, Starlight, and all of the DLC Keyblades, making for a total of 5).

That being said, I could also see KH3 Sora getting in based off of:
A). Disney negotiations (they'd want the most recent Sora)
and
B). Pure moveset potential. KH3 Sora has so much to offer in terms of a moveset that its a veritable playground coming up with one.

Good point about the Disney negotiations. They may have more power than most 3rd parties.

I do wonder if Sakurai is left to pick if he’ll go with KH1 Sora though just to go with the OG look like he does with most 3rd Party.

KH2 might be the least likely actually. But then again, who knows with all the factors in play.

I just hope the forms from KH2 are alts.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

I agree with this assessment.

You are correct, Bayonetta and Joker are pretty much as iconic as Shion (Kos-Mos) and Quote (cave story).

Your definition of "iconic" sounds more like "I like this character therefore I think they're iconic." Your opinion doesn't equal fact.

Actually me liking a character, doesn't mean I think they are iconic. And it also has nothing to do with fame or popularity.

 

[Deleted member]

Nah no way is Sora going to get in when Disney is too busy with the whole Disney Sony deal for Spider-Man! /s

Seriously though I could see Sora getting in. He definitely checks out and has a lot of stuff backing him so he may be possible but I wouldn't say he's one of the leading candidates for additional DLC as there are things both going for him and going against the dude:

-We still don't know what that "Yes" tweet from Shinji Hashimoto was about

Spoiler: Here's the tweet in question also large picture incoming

-Sora is definitely popular and if there's one consistent thing for Smash Ultimate it's delivering upon fan requests to the point of being consistently in the top five in polls since Smash 4 DLC IIRC.
-Sora is also relevant and his franchise is one of Square's biggest properties which may lead them to add Sora in because of that.
-Speaking of franchises if we were to take Sakurai's comment about new franchises and new worlds (https://youtu.be/DPh3HM6ofWU) could be really good for Sora as he represents a brand new franchise and of course that's Kingdom Hearts which is relevant and popular.

And I'm sure there's more I haven't mentioned but at the same time there's some rebuttals to what I've mentioned so allow me to list them off:

-The Tweet could just be Mr. Hashimoto rooting for his franchise to get into Smash and nothing more as who wouldn't want to be added to Smash at this point? I think any company would want to get a slice of that Smash bros pie though me saying this is nothing solid as we don't know much about said tweet.

-While Sora is definitely popular and there's no sliding around that the same thing could be said for other characters and even Square characters like Geno and Isaac who were consistently top 5 as well yet Geno is a Spirit and Isaac is an Assist Trophy so it's no guarantee.

-

Spoiler

My understanding of what Sakurai said in the livestream portion is this:
"just by adding one character, we can expand the world of Smash".

It's not clear cut if the additional characters will be from new IPs or not in my opinion. I ask two translator friends and they agreed. pic.twitter.com/ZeIHgzT6RR

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) September 5, 2019

the "New worlds" comment is apparently a mistranslation so that whole point is kind of null right now it could mean something but it could also mean nothing. We'll have to see how the first few additional DLC characters go to figure out what kind of roster we may be looking at.

-Also Disney, Jokes aside Disney could potentially prove to be a problem if they want to be a stickler about it like they're doing with a lot of their other deals and they may hold back on the Disney stuff which I could see Sakurai wanting to reference if not add cause a big part of Sora's franchise is the Disney Stuff or at least initially. I dunno we don't know how Disney views gaming in general and what they would think of Sora being added. Another potential problem but it's strictly a potential problem not a 100% problem as of now.

In conclusion? I'm a Geno fanatic and even I can see Sora might make it in instead or alongside him and honestly even if I didn't get my character I'd be happy for Sora's fans. Point is that even I can see that his chances are solid, Maybe not the 100% best but definitely not the worst. Honest 50/50 if I were to bet on it.

Could happen but it may not happen it just depends on what Sakurai's viewpoint on the Additional DLC is. Either way good luck Sora fans!

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

While I agree that if negotiations went through KH3 Sora would be the version Disney would push but from a Nintendo perspective KH1 Sora is the iteration that appeared in all Nintendo exclusives. Honestly I would be happy with any version but due to me growing up playing KH1 for 13 years before I realised their was a sequel I would prefer KH1 Sora as the model used for the game.

When has a Nintendo perspective ever mattered for third parties?

Answer: Never.

Good point about the Disney negotiations. They may have more power than most 3rd parties.

I do wonder if Sakurai is left to pick if he’ll go with KH1 Sora though just to go with the OG look like he does with most 3rd Party.

KH2 might be the least likely actually. But then again, who knows with all the factors in play.

I just hope the forms from KH2 are alts.

I don't believe Sakurai would go with KH1 Sora for the sake of the OG look. It's not like Sora's different designs are complete reimaginings of the character like Pac-Man or Simon. They reflect Sora's evolution and growth as a character, so I don't believe the "Sakurai goes for the OG look" argument stands in this case.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

You are correct, Bayonetta and Joker are pretty much as iconic as Shion (Kos-Mos) and Quote (cave story).


Actually me liking a character, doesn't mean I think they are iconic. And it also has nothing to do with fame or popularity.

I knew about Joker before Smash and I knew Bayonetta before smash, I don't know who either of those are.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Nah no way is Sora going to get in when Disney is too busy with the whole Disney Sony deal for Spider-Man! /s

Seriously though I could see Sora getting in. He definitely checks out and has a lot of stuff backing him so he may be possible but I wouldn't say he's one of the leading candidates for additional DLC as there are things both going for him and going against the dude:

-We still don't know what that "Yes" tweet from Shinji Hashimoto was about

Spoiler: Here's the tweet in question also large picture incoming

View attachment 237103

-Sora is definitely popular and if there's one consistent thing for Smash Ultimate it's delivering upon fan requests to the point of being consistently in the top five in polls since Smash 4 DLC IIRC.
-Sora is also relevant and his franchise is one of Square's biggest properties which may lead them to add Sora in because of that.
-Speaking of franchises if we were to take Sakurai's comment about new franchises and new worlds (https://youtu.be/DPh3HM6ofWU) could be really good for Sora as he represents a brand new franchise and of course that's Kingdom Hearts which is relevant and popular.

And I'm sure there's more I haven't mentioned but at the same time there's some rebuttals to what I've mentioned so allow me to list them off:

-The Tweet could just be Mr. Hashimoto rooting for his franchise to get into Smash and nothing more as who wouldn't want to be added to Smash at this point? I think any company would want to get a slice of that Smash bros pie though me saying this is nothing solid as we don't know much about said tweet.

-While Sora is definitely popular and there's no sliding around that the same thing could be said for other characters and even Square characters like Geno and Isaac who were consistently top 5 as well yet Geno is a Spirit and Isaac is an Assist Trophy so it's no guarantee.

-

Spoiler

My understanding of what Sakurai said in the livestream portion is this:
"just by adding one character, we can expand the world of Smash".

It's not clear cut if the additional characters will be from new IPs or not in my opinion. I ask two translator friends and they agreed. pic.twitter.com/ZeIHgzT6RR

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) September 5, 2019

the "New worlds" comment is apparently a mistranslation so that whole point is kind of null right now it could mean something but it could also mean nothing. We'll have to see how the first few additional DLC characters go to figure out what kind of roster we may be looking at.

-Also Disney, Jokes aside Disney could potentially prove to be a problem if they want to be a stickler about it like they're doing with a lot of their other deals and they may hold back on the Disney stuff which I could see Sakurai wanting to reference if not add cause a big part of Sora's franchise is the Disney Stuff or at least initially. I dunno we don't know how Disney views gaming in general and what they would think of Sora being added. Another potential problem but it's strictly a potential problem not a 100% problem as of now.

In conclusion? I'm a Geno fanatic and even I can see Sora might make it in instead or alongside him and honestly even if I didn't get my character I'd be happy for Sora's fans. Point is that even I can see that his chances are solid, Maybe not the 100% best but definitely not the worst. Honest 50/50 if I were to bet on it.

Could happen but it may not happen it just depends on what Sakurai's viewpoint on the Additional DLC is. Either way good luck Sora fans!

You know Shoto. When you write long speculation posts like this it really makes me want to do one of my one.

Maybe I'll revisit that Ultimate Square Enix character argument...

Being serious this is some real progress in terms of speculation from you. I'm proud of you man.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Seeing all these arguments about iconic characters is funny as hell when most people here seemed to go ape**** about Banjo despite Banjo easily being the least popular franchise added by the Fighter Pass if we count Terry as KoF which we kinda should as the trailer and stage indicate

 

[Idon]

Shion (Kos-Mos)

You mean Shion (Xenosaga)?

Kos-Mos is a character, and the most recognizable one from her series.

 

[Deleted member]

You know Shoto. When you write long speculation posts like this it really makes me want to do one of my one.

Maybe I'll revisit that Ultimate Square Enix character argument...

Being serious this is some real progress in terms of speculation from you. I'm proud of you man.

Aww thanks dude!

View attachment 237106
I knew about Joker before Smash and I knew Bayonetta before smash, I don't know who either of those are.

Also is that a Dr. Seuss character I spot? inb4 Sakurai made the DLC pack 2 just to add the Grinch which he thought the Grinch Hoax was /s

 

[DarthEnderX]

View attachment 237106
I knew about Joker before Smash and I knew Bayonetta before smash, I don't know who either of those are.

I know all 4 of them. Don't consider any of them iconic. At least not on the level of any of the other 3P Smash characters. And that includes Terry.

If anything, being added to Smash is MAKING those characters iconic.

The only Smash characters I've ever "Literally who?"ed were Ice Climbers, Game & Watch and assorted FE characters.

 

[Math Jreeds 1284]

Dream Drop Distance Sora. Though if he were to get in he'd have all of them alts x)

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I know all 4 of them. Don't consider any of them iconic. At least not on the level of any of the other 3P Smash characters. And that includes Terry.

If anything, being added to Smash is MAKING those characters iconic.

The only Smash characters I've ever "Literally who?"ed were Ice Climbers, Game & Watch and assorted FE characters.

You do realize the large impact that SNK has, and how iconic Terry and the KOF series is, right? KOF is a quintessential fighting game.

Again, it feels like you and other people's definition of "iconic" is less objective and more "I don't think highly of this character so they're not iconic."

 

[DarthEnderX]

You do realize the large impact that SNK has, and how iconic Terry and the KOF series is, right? KOF is a quintessential fighting game.

Yes. That's why I included him in the iconic group.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Yes. That's why I included him in the iconic group.

I misread that. My bad.

I'd return to my point about Joker and Bayonetta though. Joker is certainly iconic in his own right. Bayonetta is an odd case since she's more second party than third party at this point.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'd return to my point about Joker and Bayonetta though. Joker is certainly iconic in his own right.

I don't think I'd consider any character that's only been in one game iconic. Unless that game is a cultural phenomonon like, say, Minecraft. Which Persona is not.

 

[HyruleHero]

Nah no way is Sora going to get in when Disney is too busy with the whole Disney Sony deal for Spider-Man!

Because of that Disney could use the good press with having Sora in smash.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Because of that Disney could use the good press with having Sora in smash.

I mean, they already are with how many people want Disney to now buy Sony because of the whole situation but I digress.

Also you guys know how Sans is the only mii costume to get a free remix despite other nonrepresented franchises have mii costumes? Think we'll get more exceptions like him?

 

[TheYungLink]

I'd like to bring up a new topic: what are some characters you personally consider iconic, and would love to see in Smash, but haven't played their games?

I think The Avatar from the Ultima games would be an awesome addition. Ultima was the biggest influence on Dragon Quest, and therefore JRPGs, and more or less kickstarted the video game trope of the "self-insert" character, where the game encourages you to name The Avatar after yourself and customize their appearance, as well as act, within the game's world, like how YOU would act.

Obviously there isn't really any official art of The Avatar (or The Stranger, as they were called in Ultima I, II, and III), but they could base each of their 8 color slots on various depictions artists drew of The Avatar on the box art of various Ultima games across different platforms and countries (in Japan, Ultima box art looks anime styled, whereas it has a DnD style in the US. The Avatar is the brown haired boy in the former and the chainmail wearing knight in the latter).

A month or so ago, I also brought up the farmer from Story of Seasons, formerly known as Harvest Moon.

 

[HyruleHero]

Also you guys know how Sans is the only mii costume to get a free remix despite other nonrepresented franchises have mii costumes? Think we'll get more exceptions like him?

I mean right before Sans costume was announced with music for ultimate I was talking to one of my mates about how Geno is pretty much a lock now with more DLC. I immediately back tracked now I'm fairly confident that we'll get the Geno Costume with 2 music tracks.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'd like to bring up a new topic: what are some characters you personally consider iconic, and would love to see in Smash, but haven't played their games?

Damn, that's a good question, but I don't I have any.

Like, there are iconic characters, who's games I haven't played, but I don't think I want any of them in Smash. Like, on my wishlist of 30ish characters I've played them all except Spring Man and Kazuma Kiryu, and I don't consider either of them to be "iconic".

I think The Avatar from the Ultima games would be an awesome addition. Ultima was the biggest influence on Dragon Quest, and therefore JRPGs, and more or less kickstarted the video game trope of the "self-insert" character, where the game encourages you to name The Avatar after yourself and customize their appearance, as well as act, within the game's world, like how YOU would act.

Damn. Deep pull. Though I've played several Ultima games.

But because he is a self-insert create-a-character with very generic fantasy RPG abilities, I don't think he'd make a great Smash character.

 

[HyruleHero]

I'd like to bring up a new topic: what are some characters you personally consider iconic, and would love to see in Smash, but haven't played their games?

Characters I consider Iconic:

1. Lara Croft
2. Sora
3. Chun Li
4. Leon Kennedy
5. Jill Valentine
6. Master Cheif
7. Doomguy
8. Heihachi
9. Agumon
10. Crash Bandicoot

Thats about as many characters I can think of that are left that are big gaming icons (save maybe Ryu Hayabusa but I don't know anything about him as a character)

 

[YezenIRl]

Idk if this is true for everyone else, but if I type "smash bros" into the YouTube search, the recommended searches (in order) are:

smash bros ultimate
smash bros sans
smash bros megalovania
smash bros ultimate sans
smash bros terry
smash bros sans reaction
smash bros ultimate terry
smash bros ultimate banjo kazooie
smash bros banjo kazooie
smash bros sans trailer

... it seems like maybe Sans shoulda been playable tbh.

 

[Deleted member]

I mean right before Sans costume was announced with music for ultimate I was talking to one of my mates about how Geno is pretty much a lock now with more DLC. I immediately back tracked now I'm fairly confident that we'll get the Geno Costume with 2 music tracks.

Eh I don't know it could happen but I really hope that's not the case and that Geno is in. I feel like with how many fan requests have been fulfilled Geno isn't entirely out there anymore and Sakurai has been wanting the dude since Brawl if he could make Banjo-Kazooie happen and he's from a rival company I feel like they could get Geno.

Plus Square and Nintendo haven't been on this good of terms since the SNES era. Geno could just solidify that.

 

[Nemuresu]

Well, saw PushDustIn's twitt. Not surprised that Sakurai's statement remains as something vague.

That said, I don't know why people keep acting like "misquoting" the statement is such a terrible thing. Perhaps because I was the guy that most championed the idea of all DLC characters being third-party (and still does), but after going through four different guest characters continuously, I wouldn't blame anyone for thinking something like that when hearing "more game worlds will be in Smash".

And before anything else, I currently don't hold any particular positions on whatever characters come after this Pass. I'll wait for the seventh newcomer to be announced, and then I'll come up with my ideas on what kind of stuff may come in the future.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I don't think I'd consider any character that's only been in one game iconic. Unless that game is a cultural phenomonon like, say, Minecraft. Which Persona is not.

Joker has been in multiple games. Persona 5, Persona Q2, Persona Dancing Star Light, Catherine Fullbody, and the upcoming Persona 5 Royal alongside Smash.

Furthermore, Joker represents the Persona and Shin Megami Tensei series, which are both iconic JRPG series. I'd say from that association alone he is an "iconic" inclusion in Smash, even if the character himself is not.

 

[TheYungLink]

My personal definition of "iconic" doesn't necessarily require contemporary worldwide fame. It can just mean "very influential and well-known" and it can be within certain circles, as long as those circles are rather big.

Fighting game players and fans, as in people who play a lot of fighting games and participate in that community, are extremely privy to SNK games and their influence on the genre, so Terry Bogard is definitely iconic.

My example of The Avatar, and the Ultima series in general, is iconic among the older Western computer RPG crowd, as that crowd and the people who made games for them went on to make other influential WRPGs like Ultima Online which helped pave the way for World of Warcraft and lots of other games where your character is a customizable self-insert.

The Japanese doujin game scene was heavily influenced by and is very aware of the Touhou series of games, so, in that sense, I'd say Reimu Hakurei is an iconic character. The games helped popularize the "bullet hell" subgenre of shooters, which have only grown more popular over the years, eventually influencing Undertale's battle system with the ways enemies attack. Touhou also boasts over 20 main series games dating back to 1997, not counting the various side games.

I could go on. But my point is that I don't necessarily think sales figures and overall worldwide popularity ranking is all there is to what some people consider "iconic".

 

[DarthEnderX]

Furthermore, Joker represents the Persona and Shin Megami Tensei series, which are both iconic JRPG series. I'd say from that association alone he is an "iconic" inclusion in Smash, even if the character himself is not.

I don't think I agree with that.

For example, I consider Final Fantasy to be an iconic series. But I don't consider Noctis to be an iconic character. Cloud is an iconic character. Likewise, I consider Dragon Quest to be an iconic series. But I don't consider Luminary to be an iconic character. I consider Erdrick an iconic character.

On that note, I consider Shin Megami Tensei, and it's subseries Persona, to be an iconic series, but I don't think there's any one character from the series that I think has reached the status of being an iconic character. Joker is simply the most recent protagonist in an iconic series.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Joker is undisputably iconic though. P5 was huge and I doubt many people into gaming don't recognize him by now.

 

[N3ON]

Joker, Banjo, Bayo and Terry are not in the same league as the other third-parties, echoes aside. They're still noteworthy characters, but the others are like... among gaming's biggest names. I also don't doubt that they were probably cheaper to license as well.

 

[Ben Holt]

I can't remember if I said this in this thread before, but I'll post it anyway, since it is my sincere speculation.

Copied from my post in the Doom Slayer thread:
"Normally, I avoid the idea of picking characters based on superficial characteristics, but I have my reason this time.
Since the Fighter's Pass was sold as a bundle, and every character so far is very different (a summoning character, a swordfighter, a platform mascot, and a traditional fighter), Doom Slayer could be chosen as a gun fighter to make those that bought the Fighter's Pass feel like they got variety with their purchase.
Just a thought."

Even if it's not Doom Slayer, my most wanted after Crash (but Crash would not fulfil my variety theory given that we already have an anthropomorphic 90s platforming mascot in the pass), I sincerely believe that Pack 5 will include a gunner.
Do you guys agree?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Joker is undisputably iconic though. P5 was huge and I doubt many people into gaming don't recognize him by now.

I'll dispute it. It's hyperbolic to call him "iconic", and to call P5 "huge". "Recognizable" is more accurate, but it's on a different level than "iconic".

I'd also argue that half of his current recognizability is BECAUSE he's in Smash. Not why he deserved to be in Smash.

Do you guys agree?

I think if Doom Slayer hadn't shown up in that first rumor leak, nobody would be talking about him. He's another in a long line of characters where a fake leak created speculation and requests where there wasn't any before.

Not saying he's impossible, or that he doesn't deserve a slot, but thinking he's a likely pick is bizarre to me.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I'd like to bring up a new topic: what are some characters you personally consider iconic, and would love to see in Smash, but haven't played their games?

I'll include characters currently in Smash I considered iconic prior to their arrival. There's tiers for sure(I wouldn't count Ezio as iconic as Master Chief for example) and I'm avoiding using first party for this:

Characters I've had no experience with that I'd consider iconic in video games:
Megaman
Simon Belmont
Snake
Doomguy
Gordan Freeman
Master Chief
Heihachi
Tracer
Steve
Ezio

Characters I've had very little experience with that I'd consider iconic:
Ryu
Ken
Chun Li
Lara Croft
Crash Bandicoot
Leon Kennedy(plenty of experience with Chris and Jill though)
Edit: Forgot Cloud. The poster boy of JRPGs.
Also forgot Sora.

Mind you Smashboards has a weird ****ing idea of what iconic is since during Sm4sh speculation people tried to argue that Pac-Man of all characters, was not a big enough video game icon prior to his arrival, to deserve to get in Smash.

No, I will never stop bringing this up.

I'm never going to get over that sheer idiocy.

 

[N3ON]

I think if Doom Slayer hadn't shown up in that first rumor leak, nobody would be talking about him. He's another in a long line of characters where a fake leak created speculation and requests where there was none before.

Not saying he's impossible, or that he doesn't deserve a slot, but thinking he's a likely pick is bizarre.

People started bringing him up more frequently ever since the Hines interview, which predated the 5ch "leak". That's the catalyst to this whole thing. Otherwise he'd probably just be one of many characters to get a release, have people buzzing, and then fade away when someone newer comes along.

Look at Tracer.

 

[Ben Holt]

I'll include characters currently in Smash I considered iconic prior to their arrival. There's tiers for sure(I wouldn't count Ezio as iconic as Master Chief for example) and I'm avoiding using first party for this:

Characters I've had no experience with that I'd consider iconic in video games:
Megaman
Simon Belmont
Snake
Doomguy
Gordan Freeman
Master Chief
Heihachi
Tracer
Steve
Ezio

Characters I've had very little experience with that I'd consider iconic:
Ryu
Ken
Chun Li
Lara Croft
Crash Bandicoot
Leon Kennedy(plenty of experience with Chris and Jill though)

Mind you Smashboards has a weird ****ing idea of what iconic is since during Sm4sh speculation people tried to argue that Pac-Man of all characters, was not a big enough video game icon prior to his arrival, to deserve to get in Smash.

No, I will never stop bringing this up.

I'm never going to get over that sheer idiocy.

As a child, I loved Pac-Man World 2. That game deserves FAR more attention than it ever got. It was a great 3D platformer, and I really wish Pac-Man would make a return to a similar style, but with more maze elements to be loyal to it's roots.
Oops. Getting off topic. But because of this game, I vehemently supported Pac-Man for Brawl despite not posting on SmashBoards at the time. I was a lurker.

 

[Alanqa]

Furthermore, Joker represents the Persona and Shin Megami Tensei series, which are both iconic JRPG series. I'd say from that association alone he is an "iconic" inclusion in Smash, even if the character himself is not.

I think Joker only represents Persona, Joker has nothing in his moveset relating to Shin Megami Tensei nor come with any other content from it .