Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SMAASH! Puppy]

y tho?

I don't expect Tracer at all, and I don't play Overwatch, but to me Tracer seems like such a good idea. She's a current gaming icon with a unique gimmick that represents the hero shooter genre better than any other. I guess I believe (this is entirely my personal preference) that Smash should be going for big iconic names at this point. Characters that don't feel like they're literally just the 80th character in line, but instead feel like they've just been made possible.

Too many fan suggestions at this point feel like they're just scraping the bottom of the barrel.

I've seen a lot of negativity surrounding Overwatch, and I think it's like Minecraft and Fortnite in that people hate on it because it's everywhere. This may have died down though since I don't hear about the game in general too often.

Personally, I think she'd be super fun. I'd love to play a character that just teleports everywhere.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I'm personally against Tracer in Smash because I don't think she is, or Overwatch, a big gaming icons like the other third party games in Smash (like Mega man, Dragon quest, Metal gear or Sonic). Other characters, like Bayonetta and Banjo, are not really huge gaming icons, but they're very close to Nintendo. Tracer, for now, don't have any game on a Nintendo consoles.

I will agree that she could have a cool moveset, but I'd rather have Doomguy for a fps representation. Maybe if Overwatch or a hypothetical sequel will release on switch I will change my mind, but for now this is what I think about Overwatch representation in Smash. It sure is a popular game, but not really a huge gaming icons as other games.

 

[TheCJBrine]

A few big ones would be:

• A dumb pick like a Tetromino or a Stunt Race FX car.
• Jonsey.
• Literally any Fire Emblem character.
• Pretty much any Pokémon.
• Steve (He'd make quite a bit of people happy but I think most of them wouldn't be in the forums and stuff)
• Tracer

True to some extent, but certain characters would drown out the hate with hype more easily than others.

If you ask me, most of the salt from Steve would be from a minority. Most people, from what I can tell, either don’t care either way, are open to the idea, or actually love/like the idea. I don’t know about the others, but honestly it feels the same way for them, although barely anyone brings up stuff like L Block as more than a joke. Most people don’t hate this stuff.

 

[Fluttershy64]

Imagine Sakurai comes to you asking for input on the last dlc character. He'll put them in if you do a good job convincing him. What are the top five reasons you'd give to justify your single, most-wanted character? Sell your pick.

Hi everyone I am new here! =)

So I'll start by stating who I would choose and that would be:

Krystal from Star Fox.

Sadly at the moment I honestly can't think of 5 reasons just 3 basic ones. =/

1. It has already been in Sakurai's mind; Krystal was originally planned for Brawl, but she was cut due to time and Wolf was added instead. Sakurai has added characters that did not make it in the respective Smash game and added them in later instalments, (Villager, Banjo, Miis, etc),

2. A wepon user that we dont have.

3. Giving Star Fox more representation

 

[whitesnake]

Dante from Devil May Cry would be my top pick. Three reasons

1. Unique gameplay options. the top reason to add any character has to be that he brings fun, new elements to how the game is played - Dante has that for sure. Could do a combo meter (work up to Stylish), devil trigger, switch between weapons, switch chharacter modes like in DMC3... I wouldnt want all of that the point is the character offers Sakurai a huge degree of creative freedom while still being "true" to the source material
2. Brings a new series to Smash. This -- to me -- is better than adding to the list of well-trod series. Doing so gives us FE character number 7, samus in a suit or not in a suit, link as a cartoon or a man or a kid... it's better to show the chief protagonist that is emblematic of the franchise
3. Commercial cross-promotion. DMC is on switch now. the creator of DMC is putting out a new game on switch. Devil May Cry is a longstanding, successful series and it could make business sense to have the series more closely associated with nintendo

Honorable mention characters -- mainly applicable for the #1 reason above (gameplay options):

• Rayman
• Sabin, Final Fantasy III (SSBU needs grapplers and id love to see what they do with the Blitzes)
• Viewtiful Joe
• Monster Hunter
• Geno, Super Mario RPG (could argue this technically isnt a new series for smash.. but let's get Geno!)
• Doomguy

 

[Ben Holt]

I don’t see any reason the Google “leak” could be true; while, yes, it could be a screw up from Nintendo in the Netherlands (that’s the website the ad took you to), it’s far more likely either a troll or angry employee paid for it for a while because:

1. Dragon Quest characters like Erdrick and Luminary didn’t trigger the ad.
2. Artorias nor anyone other than Joker triggered the real ad from Nintendo, the one that took you directly to the Smash Bros. website.
3. While “Hero” could have triggered the ad, we have no proof of this.
4. If we’re assuming names have to be exact and that’s why DQ characters didn’t trigger the ad, then Banjo shouldn’t have triggered it either when just using “Banjo” or even “Banjo-Kazooie” since “Doom Slayer” is the only one that worked for Doomguy and the duo is called “Banjo & Kazooie.”

Honestly I was kind of hoping it was real before, too, but that’s only because Banjo-Kazooie was on it and I even started to not believe the Google thing before their reveal since it seemed it could easily be faked by any troll willing to be stupid and waste a good amount of money to mess with people (assuming they actually needed a lot like what was said).

Has this been shown, or is this just some BS fan theory? Because I haven't seen any proof of this, or anything regarding the Google theory for that matter. Its continued existence hinges on the fact that nothing about it is falsifiable one way or the other. You can say "Artorias was a glitch" because the layperson doesn't understand how Google's algorithms work. You can say that Hero would've triggered the ad, but it's impossible to verify that too when they don't trigger for anyone now, and the pool of people who could search names was always limited to those with European ISPs. And yet nobody can explain why the ads were there in the first place, why they were only triggered by incredibly specific keywords, or if they worked on any other characters people never had the chance to test.

It's just plain silly.

Not to place a tremendous amount of importance on "being right" on the internet, because I absolutely don't, but remember that the opposite is also true. If the rumor is false (and it probably is) then you're one of the few people currently falling for it.

Perhaps I came off as a bit of a **** by mentioning "gloating" if I happen to be right.
I'll happily admit to being wrong as I was wrong about the Grinch Leak, which was much more popular.
But I also think that people are sleeping too easily on Google Leak, as it is precisely how most major things leak. A modern example would be Best Buy's early leak of Joker's model. Google is like Best Buy here, a major middleman between Nintendo and the public.
It was also not posted on any forum and was found by accident, which I doubt any troll would pay for if they even COULD buy an ad for something they don't own.
Speaking of a troll buying an ad, it was not able to be replicated, which would be easy if all it took was a troll with money to buy an ad that a big YouTuber would just happen to stumble upon.
There were also the "down periods" and eventual removal of the leak altogether, which are points in favor of Google Theory.

So let's go over the possibilities:
1. A troll bought ads.
This seems to be the consensus, but I explained earlier that this seems unlikely, as if it were that simple, then Google Theory could easily be replicated, which it never was. Also, it would seem silly of a troll to buy ads just HOPING someone stumbled upon the ads and spread them like wildfire.
Unless PapaGenos himself or someone in his Discord server was the troll, the alleged troll would have to be a madman to expect these results.

2. It was just a glitch in Google's Algorithm.
If I am proven wrong, and Doom Slayer and Ryu Hayabusa are not the last two fighters on the Fighter's Pass, this would be my guess. Though possible, it seems so odd how specific the parameters of the leak had to be to get consistent results. Watch the PapaGenos videos on the subject if you are unaware of how this leak worked.
Artorias was likely a glitch because of how searching "DLC" would bring up the ad with ANY character searched, even SpongeBob. But searching specific names of DLC packs for other games triggered the ad, and Artorias just happened to be the name of both a specific character AND a DLC pack.
Had anyone thought to search "Hero" at the time and triggered the ad, I would be 100% convinced Google Theory is accurate, but here I sit at 70% convinced.
EDIT: Forgot this major point, but if this was a simple glitch in Google's algorithm, then it likely would have happened to more than just five characters if you count Artorias but assume Hero wouldn't have triggered the ad.
If it were Google's algorithm being funky, you'd expect way more characters to consistently trigger the ad.

3. Google Theory is accurate.
Since I explained the unlikelyness of the other two options, then by process of elimination, this would be the correct option. Still, unlikely does not mean impossible, and the other two options COULD be correct, but for my two cents, I think Google Theory is likely correct, and had "Hero" been tried as an option, we'd likely all be on the same page.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Dunno if the "character you want with good reason" topic is dead, but I've been working on Ganon for the past couple of days and think that he deserves a Ridley-style playable promotion when the next Smash game comes along.

Spoiler

He's one of Nintendo's oldest, most iconic villains alongside Bowser, King K. Rool and Ridley, and has appeared in far more Zelda games than Ganondorf has.
His inclusion would be a chance to give the character he represents a chance at a more series-accurate moveset, pleasing both Zelda fans and Falcondorf fans.
Most iterations of the character use a polearm, giving him similar moveset potential to Bandana Dee or a Fire Emblem spear user.

The only issue I can see with his inclusion is people bemoaning more Triforce users instead of someone like Skull Kid and Tingle, but considering that Paper Mario is still a relatively popular character to want in Smash and Toon Ganondorf was a popular candidate during Brawl/4, I don't think Pig Ganon deserves to be kept out because of that. Plus keeping Ganondorf but excluding Ganon would be like keeping Shiek and Zero Suit Samus but removing Zelda and Samus.

 

[GoodGrief741]

1. A troll bought ads.
This seems to be the consensus, but I explained earlier that this seems unlikely, as if it were that simple, then Google Theory could easily be replicated, which it never was. Also, it would seem silly of a troll to buy ads just HOPING someone stumbled upon the ads and spread them like wildfire.
Unless PapaGenos himself or someone in his Discord server was the troll, the alleged troll would have to be a madman to expect these results.

I'd like to bring the Grinch leak back into memory for a moment. That one hinged on a person spending a nice chunk of change for professional-level printing stuff, and then leaving out a few images out in the wild, waiting for them to be noticed (plus having made a previous text 'leak' to match up with the Grinch one months prior).

Just saying, never put stuff past trolls.

 

[Deathcarter]

I'm personally against Tracer in Smash because I don't think she is, or Overwatch, a big gaming icons like the other third party games in Smash (like Mega man, Dragon quest, Metal gear or Sonic). Other characters, like Bayonetta and Banjo, are not really huge gaming icons, but they're very close to Nintendo. Tracer, for now, don't have any game on a Nintendo consoles.

I will agree that she could have a cool moveset, but I'd rather have Doomguy for a fps representation. Maybe if Overwatch or a hypothetical sequel will release on switch I will change my mind, but for now this is what I think about Overwatch representation in Smash. It sure is a popular game, but not really a huge gaming icons as other games.

Disagree. Overwatch as a franchise is more than big enough for Tracer to contest with the likes of Snake, Mega Man, & Hero and outright stomp the likes of Simon and Joker. The real problem with Tracer is that while she's huge I see no reason why Sakurai, if he were to go for a big western character, wouldn't go with say Crash (one of Mario's biggest rivals), Steve (face of literally the second best selling game after Tetris), Doom Slayer (granddaddy of FPS's), or Dragonborn (most well known face of the biggest WRPG franchise) first beyond deliberately trying to do a complete WTF guest character pick ala Darth Vader/Yoda in Soul Caliber or Negan in Tekken.

 

[YezenIRl]

The real problem with Tracer is that while she's huge I see no reason why Sakurai, if he were to go for a big western character, wouldn't go with Crash

I don't think Tracer is happening at all, but IMO the logic would probably be a mixture of variety and relevancy. The hero shooter is big these days, and Tracer is largely the face of that. Sure Doom Guy could also represent FPS, but let's say he decided Doom Guy is too violent (I don't think he is, but this is all hypothetical). I think Tracer would make more sense than Crash or Dragonborn just in that she's a currently more popular character than brings more variety than either of them would.

Also maybe I'm out of the loop here, but isn't Crash Bandicoot kind of a has-been? like, people say that he is a rival to Mario but I seem to recall this being purely a self proclaimed thing positioned by Sony. I don't remember there ever being a time where people ever seriously saw Crash as a legitimate rival to Mr. Video Game himself (at least, not in the same way Sonic was at a certain point.)

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Disagree. Overwatch as a franchise is more than big enough for Tracer to contest with the likes of Snake, Mega Man, & Hero and outright stomp the likes of Simon and Joker.

I think Overwatch is too new to know if it will withstand the test of time. For that reason I don't consider any of its characters to be iconic.

Also maybe I'm out of the loop here, but isn't Crash Bandicoot kind of a has been?

The Crash Bandicoot and Spyro the Dragon series have recently seen a resurgence with their N' Sane and Reignited Trilogies respectively. However both are owned by Activision so they may be killed off again due to poor business practices.

EDIT: It's always sad to see game series die because of stupid things. Like how Chibi-Robo was murdered by the Wii and low budget/bad sequels whose sales convinced Nintendo that people don't like it.

 

[Ben Holt]

I'd like to bring the Grinch leak back into memory for a moment. That one hinged on a person spending a nice chunk of change for professional-level printing stuff, and then leaving out a few images out in the wild, waiting for them to be noticed (plus having made a previous text 'leak' to match up with the Grinch one months prior).

Just saying, never put stuff past trolls.

But the Grinch Leak differs a bit here.
I could buy a fake banner right now. No one has been able to replicate Google Theory by buying an ad that linked to the Fighter's Pass.
If anyone were able to replicate Google Theory this way, I'd have dismissed it in an instant.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Also maybe I'm out of the loop here, but isn't Crash Bandicoot kind of a has-been? like, people say that he is a rival to Mario but I seem to recall this being purely a self proclaimed thing positioned by Sony. I don't remember there ever being a time where people ever seriously saw Crash as a legitimate rival to Mr. Video Game himself (at least, not in the same way Sonic was at a certain point.)

Your recollection is pretty much contrary to mine.

But the Grinch Leak differs a bit here.
I could buy a fake banner right now. No one has been able to replicate Google Theory by buying an ad that linked to the Fighter's Pass.

I totally saw a thread where someone replicated the ad. If I could find it I'd link it.

 

[YezenIRl]

I think Overwatch is too new to know if it will withstand the test of time. For that reason I don't consider any of its characters to be iconic.

I don't mean iconic in the Mario/Pac Man/Pikachu "stand the test of time" sense. In a way that simply isn't as possible to achieve as it used to be considering where video games are at. I just mean iconic in the sense that she is highly reknown and representative of a genre.

The Crash Bandicoot and Spyro the Dragon series have recently seen a resurgence with their N' Sane and Reignited Trilogies respectively.

Right, I'm aware of this. I just feel like people might be making more of this than it is. They've capitalized on people's nostalgia by remastering popular games from the late 90s, but I don't see that as evidence that either series is really headed for genuine revival unless I see them succeed with something new.

Your recollection is pretty much contrary to mine.

Of course, I acknowledge Crash is possible. I think I just look at the Mario and Sonic rivalry and remember when that was a real thing representative of an entire console war, and there was this actual sense that Sonic was challenging Mario's status. Call me a Nintendo fanboy, but I think that comparing Crash Bandicoot to that because a guy wore a suit and yelled outside Nintendo headquarters is just kind of lowering the bar. Crash was never even close to being a threat. It always just felt like Sony's attempt to have their own wacky platformer mascot as an alternative to Mario.

It's like, Mario is Coke and Sonic is Pepsi. And then Crash is Doctor Pepper...

 

[GoodGrief741]

I don't mean iconic in the Mario/Pac Man/Pikachu "stand the test of time" sense. In a way that simply isn't as possible to achieve as it used to be considering where video games are at. I just mean iconic in the sense that she is highly reknown and representative of a genre.



Right, I'm aware of this. I just feel like people might be making more of this than it is. They've capitalized on people's nostalgia by remastering popular games from the late 90s, but I don't see that as evidence that either series is really headed for genuine revival unless I see them succeed with something new.



Of course, I acknowledge Crash is possible. I think I just look at the Mario and Sonic rivalry and remember when that was a real thing representative of an entire console war, and there was this actual sense that Sonic was challenging Mario's status. Call me a Nintendo fanboy, but I think that comparing Crash Bandicoot to that because a guy wore a suit and yelled outside Nintendo headquarters is just kind of lowering the bar. Crash was never even close to being a threat. It always just felt like Sony's attempt to have their own wacky platformer mascot as an alternative to Mario.

It's like, Mario is Coke and Sonic is Pepsi. And then Crash is Doctor Pepper...

Considering how PlayStation beat Nintendo, I think Crash was much more of a threat than Sonic was.

By the way, Sonic was deliberately created to be Sega's wacky platformer mascot alternative to Mario.

 

[Ben Holt]

Every new console generation had a mascot.
1st (early video games) had Pong
2nd (Atari 2600 and arcade golden age) had Pac-Man.
3rd (NES, SMS, Atari 7800) had Mario.
4th (SNES, Genesis) had Sonic.
5th (N64, Saturn, PSX) had Crash.
6th (Xbox, PS2, GCN) had Master Chief
7th (Wii, 360, PS3) had Dragonborn
8th (PS4, XBone, Wii U) had Steve
9th remains to be seen.

But every single one of these characters are of the utmost importance in video game history and deserve to be in Smash Bros. Crash is simply the next logical video game All-Star.

 

[YezenIRl]

Considering how PlayStation beat Nintendo, I think Crash was much more of a threat than Sonic was.

As a console sure, but this had basically nothing to do with Crash Bandicoot. People weren't clamoring to the PS1 over N64 because they thought Crash was better than Mario, they were doing it because they thought it was a better system overall. Crash wasn't the thing selling the PS1, nor the PS2.

By the way, Sonic was deliberately created to be Sega's wacky platformer mascot alternative to Mario.

Yes! Yet this only further intensified the rivalry. Sega's challenge of Nintendo was embodied by Sonic the Hedgehog, and both companies have really bought into the rivalry.

Every new console generation had a mascot.
1st (early video games) had Pong
2nd (Atari 2600 and arcade golden age) had Pac-Man.
3rd (NES, SMS, Atari 7800) had Mario.
4th (SNES, Genesis) had Sonic.
5th (N64, Saturn, PSX) had Crash.
6th (Xbox, PS2, GCN) had Master Chief
7th (Wii, 360, PS3) had Dragonborn
8th (PS4, XBone, Wii U) had Steve
9th remains to be seen.

But every single one of these characters are of the utmost importance in video game history and deserve to be in Smash Bros. Crash is simply the next logical video game All-Star.

I'm not sure I understand the logic of this. Are you saying that every console generation introduced a new mascot? Or that every generation had a character that defined that generation? What are Dragonborn and Steve mascots for?

 

[Ben Holt]

I'm not sure I understand the logic of this. Are you saying that every console generation introduced a new mascot? Or that every generation had a character that defined that generation? What are Dragonborn and Steve mascots for?

The latter.

 

[GoodGrief741]

As a console sure, but this had basically nothing to do with Crash Bandicoot. People weren't clamoring to the PS1 over N64 because they thought Crash was better than Mario, they were doing it because they thought it was a better system overall. Crash wasn't the thing selling the PS1, nor the PS2.



Yes! Yet this only further intensified the rivalry. Sega's challenge of Nintendo was embodied by Sonic the Hedgehog, and both companies have really bought into the rivalry.

Claiming that Crash, a critically acclaimed series that sold over 20 million copies on PS1 alone, had nothing to do with PS1's success seems pretty reductive. It's like saying people didn't buy Super Nintendos to play Mario, rather because the system was superior to the Genesis. Sure, that might have played a part, but you can't underestimate the power that games have to sell consoles.

To be honest I'm kind of done with this debate, Crash vs. Mario was a massive rivalry in its day and there's not much to argue about that.

 

[Diddy Kong]

What is this Google theory? Also yes Ganon would be amazing, yet unlikely. Because Ganondorf is there and all.. but yeah, I want him. And also of course Impa.

I’m still sort of hoping for Byleth from Fire Emblem Three Houses to be one of the candidates of the Fighter Pass honestly. Three Houses is amazing, sold well, was heavily promoted, and I can’t believe it’ll be all 3rd party characters honestly. There also hasn’t been a proper Fire Emblem newcomer even if we got Chrom as a Echo.

I also believe there will be more DLC after this. Wouldn’t make sense if Ultimate’s DLC span wouldn’t last as long as Smash 4’s.

 

[Nquoid]

Crash was a huge boon for the PS1, no question, but it was outsold by Gran Turismo, Final Fantasy VII, Tekken 3 and Tomb Raider. Sony bundled Gran Turismo and Spyro 3 with the console but never did so with Crash.

The PS1 vs N64 "rivalry" (if we can call it that because PS1 trounced the N64 in terms of sales), never got as reductive as Mario vs. Sonic. PS1 had so many kinds of games that just weren't available on the N64, but people latched on to Crash because it came out the same holiday season as Mario 64. But it's genuinely hard to find press about a Crash vs. Mario rivalry. There's a cover to Next Generation magazine, which was actually centred more on PS1 vs N64 vs Saturn than the mascots, and the commercial of Crash outside of the Nintendo headquarters.

PS1 didn't need a mascot in the same way Nintendo and Sega had one, and you can tell that by the way countless articles mentioning it will throw out "the closest thing the PS1 had to a mascot" when discussing Crash. But the same thing can easily be said about Cloud and Lara Croft

In terms of selling a system, Crash doesn't compare to Mario or Sonic:

*(all three other games were bundled with their respective systems however)

This isn't to say Crash wasn't a system seller at all. And all three Crash games are in the top 15 best selling games for the system. But Crash vs. Mario was never a thing on the same level as Mario vs. Sonic, and saying so stinks of historical revisionism.

 

[Predictabo]

If something like a "console era mascot" existed, the PS2/X-Box/GC era mascot would be Kratos, not Master Chief

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Imagine Sakurai comes to you asking for input on the last dlc character. He'll put them in if you do a good job convincing him. What are the top five reasons you'd give to justify your single, most-wanted character? Sell your pick.

I probably wshouldn't be doing this since it's late and I'm really tired, but I saw Kyo Kusanagi get mentioned in the last few pages, so lets keep that going.

1. In a more general sense to start, some of Smash's mechanics that have been in since Smash 64 more or less found their fighting game origins in KOF, examples being rolling (64) in KOF 96, sidestep (Melee) in KOF 94. This also extends to modes like Squad Strike (literally the entire premise of KOF from the jump), where not only can you do 3v3s in single matches, where the winner gains health (loses percent). As I see it, it'd be only fair to include the MC from the game that Smash has gotten inspiration from before, much less a character from the series in general; and it be a damn shame if they didn't.

2. Not only would it be easy to translate Kyo's moveset into Smash, but because of Kyo's wide range of moves and abilities that he has used over the course of his game appearances, he could easily be a character that is unique because he partially takes already established elements from other fighters, mashes it together and uses it as his own. Example: in 1v1s he would always face his opponents a la Ryu and Ken, and when using certain specials in the air, he can perform different moves entire a la Bayonetta. He would also be the first character outside of the Fire Emblem cast to have a rekka attack (see Dancing Blade and Double-Edge Dance). That doesn't even go into the unique things he could have on his own such as Advanced Mode and Extra Mode super bars (that utilises the Shield + B macro for activation/charging), supers that come along with the super meters, other moves attached to inputs, etc.

3. Japan Team's stage, Japan Street from KOF 98 would make for a fantastic stage in Smash. Not only is it one of the most recognizable (it's on the background of a figure for goodness sake), but it could offer interesting stage hazards, having the cars in the background bank up and forcibly move into the foreground, knocking anyone who's in their way out of their path. KOF also has a wide, wide range of fantastic soundtracks under its belt, not only from the games themselves but from the arranged versions of those tracks in-game. Here's an example of a collection of just the arranged Japan Team/Kyo's theme's from KOF 94 to KOF XIII.

4. SNK is one of the few well-known Japanese game devs that has nothing to its name Smash. It's something that I honestly find baffling considering that Sakurai is certainly well aware of what SNK, much less KOF is; and considering that SNK is starting to get back on its feet, Kyo would make for an excellent addition to market not only KOF (for KOF XV) but to get their name out their more to a larger audience. SNK would also have no qualms with Sakurai and the team adding Kyo,since not only has SNK been playing ball with the Switch with all the KOF and Metal Slug ports and Samurai Shodown 2019 on Switch, but I'd negotiations would go as smoothly as they did for Banjo (or so I have heard) as Motohiro Okubo (producer on Soul Calibur 6) thanked SNK in a tweet for approving Haohmaru to be in Soul Calibur 6 on such short notice before EVO.

5. Kyo, as a KOF rep would also represent the rivalry that Capcom and SNK had in the arcade days and be a fantastic way for many old school fans to re-live the Capcom vs SNK rivalry in Smash.

This last one was kind of a filler point since I couldn't think of anything. Also, Kyo has had so many clones with-in the KOF timeline that you could easily add one of them (Kusanagi is right there, SNK) in as an echo fighter for a cheap price and people would eat that up.

 

[Dust319]

I will concede that Crash was made the poster boy for the PSX when it launched, as I recall seeing a big fluffy mascot hanging around in press shots and there were a couple commercials that featured Crash.

However, Crash and Sony never seemed to go for the jugular with Nintendo, primarily because it didn’t need to, and because it had a completely different fight on its hands.

The Sega vs Nintendo era was a cultural phenomena because Sega and Nintendo were the only two big companies in the US that we’re competing. The Sony vs Sega vs Nintendo era was a bit more muddy so there were fewer direct attacks on competition. If anything, Sony set its sights more on Sega, who didn’t really fight back.

Also, I never saw Crash directly competing with Mario at the time, mostly because the comparison would be to Crash’s detriment. The original Crash Bandicoot was a 3-D rendered 2-D (or 2.5d) platformer. Super Mario 64 was a fully realized and explorable 3-D environment. Crash eventually got some free roaming platformers but it was following a trend set by Mario at that point.

This is not saying Crash has no chance to be a Smash Brother, but any claims that Crash was for Sony what Sonic was for Sega are subjective at best and mostly inaccurate.

 

[Fluttershy64]

I'm personally against Tracer in Smash because I don't think she is, or Overwatch, a big gaming icons like the other third party games in Smash (like Mega man, Dragon quest, Metal gear or Sonic). Other characters, like Bayonetta and Banjo, are not really huge gaming icons, but they're very close to Nintendo. Tracer, for now, don't have any game on a Nintendo consoles.

I will agree that she could have a cool moveset, but I'd rather have Doomguy for a fps representation. Maybe if Overwatch or a hypothetical sequel will release on switch I will change my mind, but for now this is what I think about Overwatch representation in Smash. It sure is a popular game, but not really a huge gaming icons as other games.

I'm perseonaly neurtural to having Tracer in Smash, however if we are going to have a FPS in Smash I feel like that Doom Guy, Master Chief, ot even a rep. from Golden Eye would be chosesn before Tracer.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Right, I'm aware of this. I just feel like people might be making more of this than it is. They've capitalized on people's nostalgia by remastering popular games from the late 90s, but I don't see that as evidence that either series is really headed for genuine revival unless I see them succeed with something new.

There was Crash Team Racing: Nitro Fueled, but it seems to have been shot down by microtransactions. The way I see it both series have made their mark on gaming, and now people are thinking about them again. They have the potential to survive, and whether or not they do is dependent on how awful Activision wants to be.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I really don't think that Crash is simply a "has-been" The N.sane trilogy has sold more than 10 millions units in February 2019. I was not able to find specific number about Nitro fueled, but apparently it did an even better launch than N.sane trilogy. Don't forget that Crash, despite being a Western mascot, is also really big in Japan, so that helps.

I personally think that the biggest problem with Crash will come when dealing with Activision. I don't know if Nintendo will want to deal with Western developpers, with some exceptions if they already have a good relationship with them (like Microsoft). Also even if they do, I feel like Activision would ask way too much money.

 

[DarthEnderX]

The only issue I can see with his inclusion is people bemoaning more Triforce users instead of someone like Skull Kid and Tingle

Really? Cause I think the bigger issue I see is that Ganon and Ganondorf are the same character and it'd basically be adding a character that's already in the game.

That said, I would love to see some form of Ganon/Ganondorf that's fully decloned from Captain Falcon, but if that happens, I'd expect it to happen in a new game, and for it to replace the older Ganondorf entirely, rather than having them both. (with bonus points of they represent "classic" Ganondorf's gameplay by adding Black Shadow).

If something like a "console era mascot" existed, the PS2/X-Box/GC era mascot would be Kratos, not Master Chief

Eh, no, I'm gonna give that one to Master Chief.

I take bigger issue with the Dragonborn/Steve eras. Especially since Steve is from the same era as Dragonborn.

 

[SKX31]

There was Crash Team Racing: Nitro Fueled, but it seems to have been shot down by microtransactions. The way I see it both series have made their mark on gaming, and now people are thinking about them again. They have the potential to survive, and whether or not they do is dependent on how awful Activision wants to be.

I do also think Activision overstepped their bounds majorly with CTR, that said I'm not surprised by that come to think of it. I'm gonna bring up FPS Youtuber Raycevick's take on Activision's practices. One qoute from 2:15:

Call of Duty didn't need to spend 5 games in the future before going back in time. It could have continued a balance of releases with each year providing a new take in both setting and gameplay. Instead, Activision dogpiled in a new direction with each entry from 2012 to 2016 - steadily progressing into a futuristic setting. But while it eventually caused an exasperated reaction within portions of the community. It took 5 times before the series finally saw a noticeable dip in sales. Leaving WW2's release to be timed perfectly.

A little too perfectly.

And another one at 5:10:

While this video is entirely speculation, the company [Activision] is infamous for long term plans.

I wouldn't be surprised at all given how long Skylanders lasted (convinently enough until 2016 - one year before N-Sane Trilogy released). And I'm not entirely sure if Crash surviving or not truly impacts his Smash chances. I mean, Sakurai planned Ultimate during 2015/16 IIRC, when Konami was pretty much falling from grace as a result of MGS V's dev cycle and Kojima / Del Toro falling out with them. They got Snake and the Belmonts in - conviently enough Snake was revealed just 4 months after Metal Gear Survive's fiasco.

I do believe that Konami's case is them getting lucky and being able to bury MGS. Activision's case? Not so sure.

 

[YezenIRl]

The latter.

Oh... well in that case idk if that's really true. Crash was outsold on the PS1 by Tomb Raider for example. And I've never really seen Dragonborn or Steve as mascots. Characters from enormously popular series yes, but they aren't really the appeal of their series in the same way Mario or Sonic are. I'm totally cool with either of them in Smash, I just don't see them as big mascot characters.

Claiming that Crash, a critically acclaimed series that sold over 20 million copies on PS1 alone, had nothing to do with PS1's success seems pretty reductive. It's like saying people didn't buy Super Nintendos to play Mario, rather because the system was superior to the Genesis. .

Numerically speaking it's not the same at all.

You're adding up the sales of all the Crash games on PS1, and so 20 million is a solid number. But you have to bear in mind that those numbers don't represent 20 million distinct PS1 owners, as a lot of the people who bought the first Crash, likely bought the other games as well. So when you look at the install base of the PS1 (over 100 million sold), it's not 1/5th of that who bought Crash games. It's likely closer to 1/10th.

Comparatively, the SNES sold just short of 50 million units. The best selling Mario on that console was Super Mario World, selling over 20 million units. That means 2/5 SNES owners purchased SMW. And with that we're not even considering SNES owners who got a different Mario game. If I did what you did with Crash games on the PS1 with Mario games on the SNES, it would be like 42 million, s the ratio would be like over 4/5, but that wouldn't be an accurate reflection of individual households. So overall, the ratio of SNES owners that had a Mario game is probably higher than 2/5.

Simply put, Mario sold the SNES. The PS1 sold Crash.

And that shows when we look at the series after the PS1 and how it's sales sorta just plummet. If Crash was really working out as a rival to Mario, and he was really the guy selling Playstations, then we wold have seen Sony continue to use him to sell the PS2. But they didn't because Crash was clearly never the appeal of their system.

 

[KingCosta]

I honestly think Steve from Minecraft because of the new mc game, but Microsoft already has a DLC character in Smash (Banjo Kazooie) so I’m not sure but I hope

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Really? Cause I think the bigger issue I see is that Ganon and Ganondorf are the same character and it'd basically be adding a character that's already in the game.

The precedent has already been set with Dr. Mario and Zero Suit Samus. And as I said, Paper Mario for a while has been a relatively popular character that people want in Smash despite being the same character as Mario.
In addition, Ganon and Ganondorf look, act, and fight nothing alike, he might as well be a new character especially since Ganondorf doesn't fight like Ganondorf.

 

[DarthEnderX]

The precedent has already been set with Dr. Mario and Zero Suit Samus.

It has. I'm just telling you what the issue is going to be.

You're going to get a lot more "Two Ganondorfs?!" complaints than you are "Another Triforce user?!" complaints.

 

[ze9]

That implies that the vocal minority on Gamefaqs are teaching Nintendo a lesson, and frankly I doubt that's the case.

The people who actually get upset over a fictional character on a crossover fighting party game roster are miniscule compared to the over all playerbase. There is no lesson to be learned on Nintendo's end.

If Corrin sold less than the other DLC characters, which I'm sure they did, they probably have learned.
The "vocal minorities" argument hasn't had a lot of luck lately.

 

[Guynamednelson]

which I'm sure they did

Oh, I'm sure they did. I wouldn't solely blame it on them being an FE promo, but rather

A. Not being the character those who wanted more FE wanted
B. Bayonetta's SSS-tier status made her seem more interesting

 

[Renjamin]

The precedent has already been set with Dr. Mario and Zero Suit Samus. And as I said, Paper Mario for a while has been a relatively popular character that people want in Smash despite being the same character as Mario.
In addition, Ganon and Ganondorf look, act, and fight nothing alike, he might as well be a new character especially since Ganondorf doesn't fight like Ganondorf.

Not that I disagree with your point but I just want to point out that Paper Mario is technically from a different reality (and thus a different character) a la M&L: Paper Jam

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Not that I disagree with your point but I just want to point out that Paper Mario is technically from a different reality (and thus a different character) a la M&L: Paper Jam

I'd disagree with you but that'd lead us to semi-related philosophical stuff and I don't think we have time for that.

The "vocal minorities" argument hasn't had a lot of luck lately.

A few things on that:

• The Super Smash Bros. series has millions of fans worldwide so a minority within this whole group could encompass thousands of people.
  • To be honest with how spread out the groups are it could be that most if not all of them are technically minorities.
  • This would mean it's a good idea to listen to everyone in order to make the most people happy.
• I don't think Ridley supporters really count as a minority.
  • If they were it's probably because Japan doesn't care for Metroid. (Or if the every group's a minority theory is true.)
• Not a point against you but I wouldn't be surprised if King K. Rool bandwagoned his way up the U.S. ballot.

 

[KillerCage]

What is this Google theory?

PapaGenos' videos explain the theory better than I can.

For the third video, I suggest going to the 35:15 timestamp.

 

[Deleted member]

If Corrin sold less than the other DLC characters, which I'm sure they did, they probably have learned.
The "vocal minorities" argument hasn't had a lot of luck lately.

Or it could simply be that the selection of Corrin was different to those of the trio, plus if we go by Sakurai's comments then we would also have to take Castlevania into consideration and that one is not visible at all. Corrin was selected due to Sakurai wanting to have a recent character but also has to be attributed to the fact that they didn't need an extra stage at all.

I'd disagree with you but that'd lead us to semi-related philosophical stuff and I don't think we have time for that.


A few things on that:

• The Super Smash Bros. series has millions of fans worldwide so a minority within this whole group could encompass thousands of people.
  • To be honest with how spread out the groups are it could be that most if not all of them are technically minorities.
  • This would mean it's a good idea to listen to everyone in order to make the most people happy.
• I don't think Ridley supporters really count as a minority.
  • If they were it's probably because Japan doesn't care for Metroid. (Or if the every group's a minority theory is true.)
• Not a point against you but I wouldn't be surprised if King K. Rool bandwagoned his way up the U.S. ballot.

K. Rool always seemed to have gained a lot of support when a lot of people gave up on Ridley for the DLC period in Sm4sh.

 

[andree123]

Spoiler: Remember this?

What just happened, did it point toward to something else not smash related?