Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The only difference between Sonic and Shadow in Adventure 2 is their actual characterizations and Sonic had a couple more power-ups. They played pretty much the same. Shadow was created as a gameplay clone to pad out the game, same with Tails and Rouge's roles, as clones of Eggman and Knuckles respectively.

Rouge and Knuckles have different animations for their attacks, but practically play the same otherwise. They're the most different. Sonic and Shadow play the same as is. Shadow works just fine as an echo. He also shares the same abilities in multiple games besides Adventure 2, including Heroes, still shares some abilities in his own game, is very similar in 06, is pretty much the same in most spin-offs(Rivals, Runners, Riders), with his big difference being in Sonic Battle among them. I forget how he plays in regular Black Knight, though. I'm not counting Secret Rings and Black Knight's multiplayer, where everyone's the same. But you also have the Olympic games, which he's the same role, again.

Shadow was always designed to be a clone of Sonic gameplay-wise, but also evolves to be more of an alternate style to Sonic's, while still being ideally similar in many ways. No reason he can't be an Echo beyond... Sega or Sakurai saying no in general. It's not like he can't perform all the moves just fine. Worst move, is what, Sonic's Down Tilt, which looks very silly on Shadow? That's kind of it. I can't even remember any other moves that really look off beyond that.

 

[Door Key Pig]

The only difference between Sonic and Shadow in Adventure 2 is their actual characterizations and Sonic had a couple more power-ups. They played pretty much the same. Shadow was created as a gameplay clone to pad out the game, same with Tails and Rouge's roles, as clones of Eggman and Knuckles respectively.

Rouge and Knuckles have different animations for their attacks, but practically play the same otherwise. They're the most different. Sonic and Shadow play the same as is. Shadow works just fine as an echo. He also shares the same abilities in multiple games besides Adventure 2, including Heroes, still shares some abilities in his own game, is very similar in 06, is pretty much the same in most spin-offs(Rivals, Runners, Riders), with his big difference being in Sonic Battle among them. I forget how he plays in regular Black Knight, though. I'm not counting Secret Rings and Black Knight's multiplayer, where everyone's the same. But you also have the Olympic games, which he's the same role, again.

Shadow was always designed to be a clone of Sonic gameplay-wise, but also evolves to be more of an alternate style to Sonic's, while still being ideally similar in many ways. No reason he can't be an Echo beyond... Sega or Sakurai saying no in general. It's not like he can't perform all the moves just fine. Worst move, is what, Sonic's Down Tilt, which looks very silly on Shadow? That's kind of it. I can't even remember any other moves that really look off beyond that.

You mean his down smash?
https://www.ssbwiki.com/Sonic_(SSB4)/Down_smash

 

[Daedulus]

I don’t think it’s completely implausible, but I don’t think it will happen.

I agree, Daemon X Machina is being slept on if promotional characters are being added. Personally, I don’t think they will.

Then, I think Sora is probably likely (although I would say it’s equally likely that we get a Dragon Quest rep instead). As for Isaac, if a Golden Sun remake/reboot is in development, I just don’t see it getting announced so soon. And I’m not really expecting such a cool character, but that’s just my pessimism.

For the new Pokémon, again I’m not expecting promotional picks.

And lastly, why would there be a Smash Direct? What else is there to show beyond a character, stage and music? Also, and I’m saying this as an SMT fan, but unless the next game breaks out Persona 5 style, we won’t get a character. There isn’t really one single go-to character, and a mascot like Jack Frost wouldn’t really represent the game. I guess they could just go with the new one, but I don’t know if Nintendo would go out of their way to advertise it that much.

(And I don’t think there’s a wave two coming, given Sakurai’s statements about wanting a break and Nintendo’s past history with DLC)

That said, it’s not impossible or even improbable. It seems a pretty middle of the road expectation, with only two characters (Sora & Isaac) being big fan wants, but no huge controversial (being generous) picks like Steve or Granblue girl. (Them again, I guess the new Pokémon could be more hated than Incineroar, or Daemon X Machina and SMTV guy could be a new Corrin, that’s the risk with promotional characters)

Isaac..... Will not be playable, I just have that feeling that being an assist trophy cuts your chances in smash, but I will say that he does have a fair chance. I mean look at Crogunk in Pokken DX, he's both playable and a support pokemon, (The equivalent of an assist trophy)

Any way..... I've been thinking about DLC and this is what I've come up with(I don't like this DLC, but it's just my predictions)

Waddle Dee: Completely absent from the game, makes me think that he might be DLC, higher than Geno on the ballot and a lot more requested, especially in Japan.

Three houses rep: As long as it doesn't use a sword, I don't give a ****. Makes sense because Nintendo loves it's FE and Three houses comes out at DLC prime time.

Pokemon Gen 8 Rep: Do I really have to explain?

Geno: Vergeben says that there will be a square rep and Vergeben is either really in touch with nintendo, or is a fortune telling Jesus. Either sora or slime, Kindom hearts is partly owned by disney, they keep their locked up tightly, and slime is just someone no one wants plus the fact that Nintendo half owns geno making me think that he's a prime character for smash.

Either 3rd party, really dumb 1st party or a WTF: Still haven't made up my mind yet.

Expect to see these guys as dlc.

 

[Aetheri]

I see a lot of people banking on Nintendo choosing characters based on business and promotion.

I think people are greatly underestimating Nintendo's 'outside the box' mentality.

 

[Fatmanonice]

One of my friends just shared this with me and it was too good not to bring here:

https://mobile.twitter.com/mnmtwinz/status/1061700381212852224?s=19

 

[FlawedAI]

I don’t think it’s completely implausible, but I don’t think it will happen.

I agree, Daemon X Machina is being slept on if promotional characters are being added. Personally, I don’t think they will.

Then, I think Sora is probably likely (although I would say it’s equally likely that we get a Dragon Quest rep instead). As for Isaac, if a Golden Sun remake/reboot is in development, I just don’t see it getting announced so soon. And I’m not really expecting such a cool character, but that’s just my pessimism.

For the new Pokémon, again I’m not expecting promotional picks.

And lastly, why would there be a Smash Direct? What else is there to show beyond a character, stage and music? Also, and I’m saying this as an SMT fan, but unless the next game breaks out Persona 5 style, we won’t get a character. There isn’t really one single go-to character, and a mascot like Jack Frost wouldn’t really represent the game. I guess they could just go with the new one, but I don’t know if Nintendo would go out of their way to advertise it that much.

(And I don’t think there’s a wave two coming, given Sakurai’s statements about wanting a break and Nintendo’s past history with DLC)

That said, it’s not impossible or even improbable. It seems a pretty middle of the road expectation, with only two characters (Sora & Isaac) being big fan wants, but no huge controversial (being generous) picks like Steve or Granblue girl. (Them again, I guess the new Pokémon could be more hated than Incineroar, or Daemon X Machina and SMTV guy could be a new Corrin, that’s the risk with promotional characters)

I mean, almost all of picks are based on the promotional mentality, and I think while not every character will be a promotion, I have a feeling most will be. Personally, I think the least likely of these is Isaac, not just due to him being an Assist Trophy, but his pick is me banking on a new Golden Sun in development. The last Smash direct is mostly based on Smash Wii U's cycle, though with only one character to reveal, it may not be a Smash-focused Direct, but rather a segment within a Nintendo Direct, similar to the one I predicted at E3. Either way, I'm fairly confident in these picks, but I am more than prepared to by 100% wrong (and to be honest, I hope I am in regards to Pokemon. We don't need 11, imo).

 

[Daedulus]

The only difference between Sonic and Shadow in Adventure 2 is their actual characterizations and Sonic had a couple more power-ups. They played pretty much the same. Shadow was created as a gameplay clone to pad out the game, same with Tails and Rouge's roles, as clones of Eggman and Knuckles respectively.

Rouge and Knuckles have different animations for their attacks, but practically play the same otherwise. They're the most different. Sonic and Shadow play the same as is. Shadow works just fine as an echo. He also shares the same abilities in multiple games besides Adventure 2, including Heroes, still shares some abilities in his own game, is very similar in 06, is pretty much the same in most spin-offs(Rivals, Runners, Riders), with his big difference being in Sonic Battle among them. I forget how he plays in regular Black Knight, though. I'm not counting Secret Rings and Black Knight's multiplayer, where everyone's the same. But you also have the Olympic games, which he's the same role, again.

Shadow was always designed to be a clone of Sonic gameplay-wise, but also evolves to be more of an alternate style to Sonic's, while still being ideally similar in many ways. No reason he can't be an Echo beyond... Sega or Sakurai saying no in general. It's not like he can't perform all the moves just fine. Worst move, is what, Sonic's Down Tilt, which looks very silly on Shadow? That's kind of it. I can't even remember any other moves that really look off beyond that.

I don't think you get my point.

Sonic uses mostly a spin-dash move in his moveset, like he does in most of the classic games, of course I don't think this represents him well, but that's not the point. Sonic's moveset would WORK on Shadow, but it would either have to be drastically altered or a new moveset entirely, here's what I mean.

Neutral: Completely fine, should portray the fact that shadow has a lot more rage than sonic though

Forward tilt: Works fine too, might want to use dem rocket boots though

Up tilt: could be him using chaos control with his rocket boots going up(like in Forces I think) and have him have a gritty, angry determined expression

Down tilt: Could be his motor bike or something

Up and down ariel: same thing, might want to use dem rocket boots

Grab: have him in his signature hand clenches position with the foe and you're good as gold

Pummel: Chaos control angry punch thing(I dunno)

Throws: same I don't care

Specials: here's where it gets tricky, while he can USE sonic's spin dash, it would feel weird since he never does it in MANY of the games. I propose he uses the hover boots, to go around the stage, uses the spin dash, and pulls and ridley, grabs the opponent and drags him across the stage with his boots.

Final smash: super sonic works(cuz it would be a nod to 006, my FAVOURITE SONIC GAME(#lolnotlol)), but if they didn't want to that then do chaos control

recovery: have him bounce of Omega or fly with rouge(either one works)

Shadows moveset should convey rage and attack, not the cockiness and smirkiness that sonic has.

look at this sexy hotty! why wouldn't you want him in smash!

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/34/5d/45/345d454bf41a426bdb1e7be61f1bd257--shadow-the-hedgehog-form.jpg

 

[SonicMario]

Daedulus

What about Dark Samus though?

From what I hear from Metroid fans, Dark Samus never used the exact same abilities Samus did. Dark Samus never fired missiles or did much of Samus' arsenal and instead had unique powers all her own in the Metroid Prime games. Yet Dark Samus is still an echo nonetheless. The only similarity was body shape and that, plus Sakurai cited high requests, was enough to get Dark Samus in as an echo where Dark Samus does still play similarly to Samus.

 

[Aetheri]

Daedulus

What about Dark Samus though?

From what I hear from Metroid fans, Dark Samus never used the exact same abilities Samus did. Dark Samus never fired missiles or did much of Samus' arsenal and instead had unique powers all her own in the Metroid Prime games. Yet Dark Samus is still an echo nonetheless. The only similarity was body shape and that, plus Sakurai cited high requests, was enough to get Dark Samus in as an echo where Dark Samus does still play similarly to Samus.

Not so much that Dark Samus 'can't' do what Samus can but morse she can do so much more. A lot of Samus's abilities like grapple beam and screw attack, Dark Samus never used in any of her appearances. But it could be possible that she can still canonically use them.

A situation that is indeed comparable to that of Shadow and Sonic.

Shadow can still spindash and the spring is more of a reference to the platforming in Sonic games rather than an ability.

 

[Ninjaed]

The spring could easily be replaced by a kind of teleportation too. Chaos Control!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You mean his down smash?
https://www.ssbwiki.com/Sonic_(SSB4)/Down_smash

Nope, meant his down tilt. Where he kicks with both legs forward. Down Smash looks far more Shadow-like.

I don't think you get my point.

Sonic uses mostly a spin-dash move in his moveset, like he does in most of the classic games, of course I don't think this represents him well, but that's not the point. Sonic's moveset would WORK on Shadow, but it would either have to be drastically altered or a new moveset entirely, here's what I mean.

Neutral: Completely fine, should portray the fact that shadow has a lot more rage than sonic though

Forward tilt: Works fine too, might want to use dem rocket boots though

Up tilt: could be him using chaos control with his rocket boots going up(like in Forces I think) and have him have a gritty, angry determined expression

Down tilt: Could be his motor bike or something

Up and down ariel: same thing, might want to use dem rocket boots

Grab: have him in his signature hand clenches position with the foe and you're good as gold

Pummel: Chaos control angry punch thing(I dunno)

Throws: same I don't care

Specials: here's where it gets tricky, while he can USE sonic's spin dash, it would feel weird since he never does it in MANY of the games. I propose he uses the hover boots, to go around the stage, uses the spin dash, and pulls and ridley, grabs the opponent and drags him across the stage with his boots.

Final smash: super sonic works(cuz it would be a nod to 006, my FAVOURITE SONIC GAME(#lolnotlol)), but if they didn't want to that then do chaos control

recovery: have him bounce of Omega or fly with rouge(either one works)

Shadows moveset should convey rage and attack, not the cockiness and smirkiness that sonic has.

look at this sexy hotty! why wouldn't you want him in smash!

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/34/5d/45/345d454bf41a426bdb1e7be61f1bd257--shadow-the-hedgehog-form.jpg

Actually, he does spin dash in many games. That said, his moveset can't have such extreme animations like the Motorbike for an echo. Doesn't really change the fact Shadow is a clone of Sonic in most games, playing almost(or sometimes exactly) the same. Chaos aesthetics are a given, though. Not unlike how Daisy was created with the various flower changes.

If you're more arguing how the moveset doesn't really fit his personality, that I can concur with. He's a lot more aggressive and has more power, where he doesn't rely on his speed and trickery in the same way Sonic does. Also, I'm meh on Super Shadow. I'd rather see Orbital Laser from Shadow The Hedgehog or a variation of Chaos Spear. Both are more unique.

 

[JohnKnight416]

Would anyone like to see Dante from the Devil May Cry series make his into Smash Ultimate as one of DLC characters? I would definitely love to see him especially when there's Devil May Cry 5 coming out next year.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Would anyone like to see Dante from the Devil May Cry series make his into Smash Ultimate as one of DLC characters? I would definitely love to see him especially when there's Devil May Cry 5 coming out next year.

I would, but he’s not at the top of my priorities. Love me some DMC though.

 

[JohnKnight416]

I would, but he’s not at the top of my priorities. Love me some DMC though.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did Nintendo say that the characters that they've chosen as DLC are going to be from a new separate game than the other characters that are currently on the base SSBU roster? If that's the case then it's possible for Dante to make his way in as DLC since he definitely fits into that category.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did Nintendo say that the characters that they've chosen as DLC are going to be from a new separate game than the other characters that are currently on the base SSBU roster? If that's the case then it's possible for Dante to make his way in as DLC since he definitely fits into that category.

I don’t think anything like that was said.

But, I’m still expecting DLC to be all third parties from franchises not already in Smash. That’s just a hunch though.

 

[JohnKnight416]

Btw, is Piranha Plant part of the 5 DLC characters or is he separate offer?

 

[TheCJBrine]

Btw, is Piranha Plant part of the 5 DLC characters or is he separate offer?

He's separate, so we're technically getting six fighters as DLC.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Btw, is Piranha Plant part of the 5 DLC characters or is he separate offer?

It’s a separate offer, and it’s free if you register your copy of the game before its January 31st release.

 

[JohnKnight416]

Is he still up for offer even if the free offer deadline has past?

 

[TheCJBrine]

Is he still up for offer even if the free offer deadline has past?

Yes, I guess he'll cost the same as the others but idk.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Yes, I guess he'll cost the same as the others but idk.

It’ll probably cost a bit less, given that it doesn’t come with a stage or music.

 

[JohnKnight416]

Who do you guys want to see in smash ultimate?

 

[ChronoBound]

Its bizarre that there is going to be no Xenoblade X music in Ultimate if that part of the Nintendo Direct showing the three Xenoblade 2 tracks is anything to go by. Is there any special copyrights for Xenoblade X's soundtrack?

 

[GoodGrief741]

Its bizarre that there is going to be no Xenoblade X music in Ultimate if that part of the Nintendo Direct showing the three Xenoblade 2 tracks is anything to go by. Is there any special copyrights for Xenoblade X's soundtrack?

We don’t know all the music though, do we? I think there’s bound to be a couple Xeno X tracks.

From a quick search, the composer for Xenoblade X is an anime composer. This is one of only four games he’s made music for.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Who do you guys want to see in smash ultimate?

These jerks.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Who do you guys want to see in smash ultimate?

-Banjo-Kazooie
-Geno
-Skull Kid
-Gengar
-Steve?
-Porky Minch
-Ninten
-Chorus Kids
-Sans & Papyrus

 

[Daedulus]

Not so much that Dark Samus 'can't' do what Samus can but morse she can do so much more. A lot of Samus's abilities like grapple beam and screw attack, Dark Samus never used in any of her appearances. But it could be possible that she can still canonically use them.

A situation that is indeed comparable to that of Shadow and Sonic.

Shadow can still spindash and the spring is more of a reference to the platforming in Sonic games rather than an ability.

Yeah, but with dark samus, she is literally a part of samus,

Nope, meant his down tilt. Where he kicks with both legs forward. Down Smash looks far more Shadow-like.


Actually, he does spin dash in many games. That said, his moveset can't have such extreme animations like the Motorbike for an echo. Doesn't really change the fact Shadow is a clone of Sonic in most games, playing almost(or sometimes exactly) the same. Chaos aesthetics are a given, though. Not unlike how Daisy was created with the various flower changes.

If you're more arguing how the moveset doesn't really fit his personality, that I can concur with. He's a lot more aggressive and has more power, where he doesn't rely on his speed and trickery in the same way Sonic does. Also, I'm meh on Super Shadow. I'd rather see Orbital Laser from Shadow The Hedgehog or a variation of Chaos Spear. Both are more unique.

Really, if the spin dash is such a big part of him... tell me why I've only seen it in very specific cut scenes and moments of gameplay. And I'm saying that he shouldn't and wouldn't be an echo, he would be in an Isabelle situation

And as for Dark samus.... Pis off. Dark smaus has been in 3 games while Shadows been in like 25, they had less to pull from for Dark samus and she doesn't play very differently to samus.

Adding a character is also really(I don't like saying this but I have to) "A form of art" If you look at all of the echos (exept D-pit(dunno why he doesn't use his signature weapon)) you'll see that they very similar their counter parts in universe, Shadow is absolutely NOTHING LIKE SONIC IN THE SONIC SERIES, I can say that with full knowledge of playing Sonic games since I was 6, (Yes sonic 006 was my first sonic game) this is what it all boils down to after all.

 

[SonicMario]

Even if Shadow could only be a non-echo. That just means he'll still have a hard time getting into Smash. Since if Sonic ever gets a non-echo character. Tails and/or Knuckles (Or possibly even Eggman) should come first. Echo fighters give characters that could feasibly be echoes to being playable anyhow because of how easy they would be to base off the base character. Hence Daisy getting in before Toad or Waluigi (Not over them mind you, I'm not saying it was an echo daisy or a unique Toad or Waluigi. That's silly. If anything now, Piranha Plant would be more at fault heh).

Whether you think Shadow could be an echo or not. The fact remains that it was feasible since Shadow was pretty much already an echo in Adventure 2 and most recently Sonic Forces. And again, even if he couldn't. Tails or Knuckles are stiff competition in that department.

Not that it matters now, since it looks like Sonic's going to be alone again barring a miracle.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I just find it really weird how Street Fighter and Castlevania got echoes before Sonic.

Then again, given Sakurai’s love for the two former series, that might just be his bias at play. Given Sonic’s moveset, it’s clear he’s not a huge fan of the games.

On a different topic, what do you think about the possibility of us getting Detective Pikachu as a DLC character to promote the movie?

 

[EarlTamm]

On a different topic, what do you think about the possibility of us getting Detective Pikachu as a DLC character to promote the movie?

0%. The good detective cant even fight, as well as it already being confirmed that echos will not be a thing in this DLC.

 

[SonicMario]

as well as it already being confirmed that echos will not be a thing in this DLC.

Not that I think it's not entirely possible Sakurai meant for all of DLC. But are we absolutely sure Sakurai didn't just mean no echoes in the fighter pass specifically, but it may turn out to be a surprise that comes outside of the fighter pass? The echoes being released separately and for a cheaper price or even a free update like how they've done with some Tennis Aces characters.

I do slightly feel like that Nintendo at first wants to see the reception of Echoes post-launch before getting into possibly making more. So just in case the reception was mainly negative, Sakurai would assure these fighter pass characters weren't echoes. But if they turn out to be generally ok reception wise and Nintendo sees fans willing to accept more at a later time during the game's lifecycle (Maybe even after the fighter pass is finished). Who knows.

But I'm playing it safe for now and saying there won't be echoes for DLC. But I at least want to keep this in mind in case we get confused when suddenly there is a DLC echo at some point.

 

[FlawedAI]

Who do you guys want to see in smash ultimate?

Isaac, Paper Mario, Banadana Dee, Phoenix Wright. I'll trade all three never getting into Smash if it meant I could get Isaac.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Edelgard is being rated in the Rate Their Chances Thread! Come show your support! Just remember to write at least two sentences per score if you want yours to be counted.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah, but with dark samus, she is literally a part of samus,

And Shadow was literally designed after Super Sonic. He's heavily connected to Sonic since his creation, both in an out of universe.

Really, if the spin dash is such a big part of him... tell me why I've only seen it in very specific cut scenes and moments of gameplay. And I'm saying that he shouldn't and wouldn't be an echo, he would be in an Isabelle situation

He's nowhere near an Isabelle situation. Isabelle's biggest factor was she had the wrong proportions. Her having a different personality was a secondary factor. She could never had been an Echo to begin with. If she did have the right proportions, the rest is just reskinning her moves to be more like her.

I'm not sure why you think the Spin Dash suddenly needs to be a "big part of Shadow's cutscenes" when he uses it in tons of games, anyway? Including his debut appearance?

And as for Dark samus.... Pis off. Dark smaus has been in 3 games while Shadows been in like 25, they had less to pull from for Dark samus and she doesn't play very differently to samus.

Nope, she plays very differently too(in her own games). She has a ton of unique stuff, but doesn't use 'em in Smash. There is no difference in this comparison. Meanwhile Shadow was 100% the same in his first appearance, where Dark Samus actually had a ton more unique stuff from the start. Shadow's first two unique appearances were Sonic Battle and Shadow The Hedgehog, not Adventure 2.

Adding a character is also really(I don't like saying this but I have to) "A form of art" If you look at all of the echos (exept D-pit(dunno why he doesn't use his signature weapon)) you'll see that they very similar their counter parts in universe, Shadow is absolutely NOTHING LIKE SONIC IN THE SONIC SERIES, I can say that with full knowledge of playing Sonic games since I was 6, (Yes sonic 006 was my first sonic game) this is what it all boils down to after all.

Except he is a lot like Sonic in the series? Not sure what you're talking about, because it's just wrong. Personality isn't the only thing that stops you from being an Echo. He can show his personality just fine through his actions and slightly alternated animations. Including his taunts. The issue doesn't exist. Dark Samus, and even Dark Pit, show their personality extremely well.

 

[PK-remling Fire]

Who do you guys want to see in smash ultimate?

Mainly the ones in my signature, especially Banjo.

 

[Idon]

And as for Dark samus.... Pis off. Dark smaus has been in 3 games while Shadows been in like 25, they had less to pull from for Dark samus and she doesn't play very differently to samus.

Excuse me?
Dark Samus's moveset practically writes itself if you actually played the games it's featured in.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

As similar as Shadow is to Sonic he does have different abilities that'd set him apart to being a semi-clone such as his Chaos abilities.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

As similar as Shadow is to Sonic he does have different abilities that'd set him apart to being a semi-clone such as his Chaos abilities.

So did Dark Samus. And Chrom. And Ken. And Dark Pit potentially.

Fact of the matter is, he can work just fine as an Echo without hurting his character. There's no reason he must be a semi-clone. Both are viable options. He works fine as a regular clone too.

 

[Palarm]

Does anyone think we'll get a retro rep for DLC? I'm holding out for excitebike or dig-dug, I used to want balloon fighter but I think villager made him obsolete

 

[Daedulus]

And Shadow was literally designed after Super Sonic. He's heavily connected to Sonic since his creation, both in an out of universe.


He's nowhere near an Isabelle situation. Isabelle's biggest factor was she had the wrong proportions. Her having a different personality was a secondary factor. She could never had been an Echo to begin with. If she did have the right proportions, the rest is just reskinning her moves to be more like her.

I'm not sure why you think the Spin Dash suddenly needs to be a "big part of Shadow's cutscenes" when he uses it in tons of games, anyway? Including his debut appearance?

Except he is a lot like Sonic in the series? Not sure what you're talking about, because it's just wrong. Personality isn't the only thing that stops you from being an Echo. He can show his personality just fine through his actions and slightly alternated animations. Including his taunts. The issue doesn't exist. Dark Samus, and even Dark Pit, show their personality extremely well.

Yes, shadow is very tied to sonic, and was designed after super sonic, but so was Luigi after mario, they both are there own characters now and yes, luigi can use mario's moves, but it doesn't show what luigi and he nowadays, he's his completely own character, same with shadow.


Isabelles issue wasn't just proportions, most of villagers moves in the animal crossing series, she doesn't use. Yes, they fixed this but it's good to keep in mind.

And no, he never uses that damned spindash, at least not enough that it's one of his core moves, sonic's moveset only works because it's based o moves he does in the games. Shadow can still USE a spindash, it's just the fact that it shouldn't be his main way of mobility and damage like it is to sonic.

Shadow doesn't have the same hyper energy that sonic has, yes personality doesn't stop you from being an echo, but frankly, shadows moves just don't reflect who he is in the game and outside of the game, Shadow's more than just a sonic clone, he's his own character and a lot more defined than dark samus and dark pit, Shadow deserves more than just an echo, something that I can surely see the devs seeing. I just have this gut feeling that if shadows going to be playable, he'll either be a semi-echo or a full newcomer.