Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[EricTheGamerman]

Once again, I can't just help but think how crazy it is how many of the big name Japanese series that we currently have in Smash and how few major ones we're mentioning. Here's a run down of the series that have sold more than 20 million copies coming from Japan and how they relate to Smash:

The major ones we're missing:

1. Resident Evil - Capcom - 92 Million Sales
2. Tekken - Bandai Namco - 48 Million Sales
3. Puyo Puyo - Sega - 27 Million Sales
4. Souls - From Software/Bandai Namco outside of Japan - 25 Million Sales
5. Tales - Bandai Namco - 20 Million Sales
6. Devil May Cry - Capcom - 20 Million Sales
7. Frogger - Konami - 20 Million Sales

Here's a breakdown of semi-related series that are either not originally video games, not technically owned by Japanese companies, or are not originally Japanese creations:

1. Pro Evolution Soccer - Konami - 100 Million Sales
2. Gran Turismo - Sony - 80.4 Million Sales
3. Tomb Raider - Square Enix acquisition - 74 Million Sales
4. Dragonball - Bandai-Namco and assorted companies - 53.5 Million Sales
5. Uncharted - Owned by Sony, Developed by Naughty Dog - 41 Million Sales
6. God of War - Owned by Sony, Developed by Sony Santa Monica - 32 Million Sales
7. Ratchet and Clank - Owned by Sony, Developed by Insomniac Games - 28 Million Sales
8. Gundam - Assorted Companies and Bandai-Namco - 30 Million Sales
9. Kingdom Hearts - Owned by Disney - 30 Million Sales
10. Yugioh - Assorted Companies - 22 Million Sales

And here's the really incredible frame of reference for what Smash already has:

1. Mario (Across all spin-off titles) - Nintendo - 639 Million Sales -or- even just Super Mario - 341 Million Sales
2. Pokemon - Nintendo - 340 Million Sales
3. Wii (Encompases Wii Sports, Wii Fit, etc.) - Nintendo - 202 Million Sales
4. Final Fantasy - Square Enix - 142 Million
5. Sonic the Hedgehog - Sega - 123 Million Sales
6. The Legend of Zelda - Nintendo - 96 Million Sales
7. Dragon Quest - Square Enix - 76 Million Sales
8. Donkey Kong - Nintendo - 58 Million Sales
9. Monster Hunter - Capcom - 54 Million Sales*
10. Metal Gear - Konami - 53 Million Sales
11. Street Fighter - Capcom - 43 Million Sales
12. Pac-Man - Bandai-Namco - 43 Million Sales
13. Mega Man - Capcom - 35 Million Sales
14. Kirby - 35 Million Sales
15. Brain Age - 33 Million Sales*
16. Nintendogs - Nintendo - 28 Million Sales*
17. Animal Crossing - Nintendo - 25 Million Sales
18. Yoshi - Nintendo - 21 Million
19. Castlevania - Konami - 20 Million

*This series is already included in Smash, but does not have a playable fighter.

It's easy to forget how damn impressive Smash is until you start looking at the numbers (I did take these from Wikipedia mind you, but I checked 90% of the sources on the sales figures and they all generally seemed to be right/from trustworthy sources).

Edit: It's also kind of hilarious/sad that Sony is a Japanese game developer, but the only series of theirs that they actually develop and originated in Japan is Gran Turismo...

 

[AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea]

Anyone know if real?

Mod EDIT: Censor Dodge

 

[Fenriraga]

Anyone know if real?

I kek'd, but you're gonna want to spoiler that with a disclaimer. It has a poop word, and is considered censor dodging :V

 

[cj.]

I have noticed that no one has mentioned Alone in The Dark as a possible franchise to represent survival horror in Smash, The series considered to be a forefather of the survival horror, and the series also setting the standard for later rival popular survival horror games such as Resident Evil and Silent Hill
I think Edward Carnby would be a very funny character to play

 

[Sysreq]

I have noticed that no one has mentioned Alone in The Dark as a possible franchise to represent survival horror in Smash, The series considered to be a forefather of the survival horror, and the series also setting the standard for later rival popular survival horror games such as Resident Evil and Silent Hill
I think Edward Carnby would be a very funny character to play

Didn't the one for the Wii tank hard?

 

[GKMLTTSB]

I have noticed that no one has mentioned Alone in The Dark as a possible franchise to represent survival horror in Smash, The series considered to be a forefather of the survival horror, and the series also setting the standard for later rival popular survival horror games such as Resident Evil and Silent Hill
I think Edward Carnby would be a very funny character to play

I've mentioned the series once or twice, but I think its reputation has kind of sunk to the point where most people know it more from its failures than its successes. Not to say that should disqualify it (Sonic is a thing, after all) but it's a hard sell.

If we were to go back to the older era of horror games, I'd lean more toward Clock Tower, personally. Specifically Scissorman himself, though he'd be even more difficult to transform into a compelling fighter than someone like Pyramid Head, so he's got that working against him.

For protagonist characters, just for the sake of historical novelty, seeing a reference to Warp's Laura could be a fun throwback. Though she'd fit much better as a spirit or something. Even with my choices being as eclectic as they are, I can't really say I'd lobby to see her as playable. >_>

 

[NoOtherPersona]

i just remembered Hayabusa is Canon in the Halo Universe as a nod to the series at least but still

Spoiler: Hayabusa Spartan Armor

Just a neat little thing Bungie did back in the day for halo 3 but it's funny to think of Ryu Hayabusa as a Spartan they even gave them a Katana

Spoiler: DoA

just I case someone says something I know a spartan was in a dead or alive game and that's why this armor happened

 

[Fenriraga]

I hate how much fun this is.

 

[Deleted member]

That's why I say it's more of a Fire Emblem problem than anything. Shulk, Cloud and Mii Swordfighter are just examples of other human sword fighters.



The Links all share the same specials (Remote Bomb is just a manual detonation version of the regular bombs) tilts, down smash and up aerial. The only take away from this is that Toon Link at least plays the most unique out of the three Links.



Elaborate on this "same design principles".



Joker's standard attacks aren't entirely dependant on his dagger as kicks are usually added to his moves as well so he's not much of an "anime swordfighter". Meanwhile nearly every single one of the Hero's standard attacks uses his Sword.



Yes and no! Yes because they all use swords, they all use Dancing blade, a neutral b charging move, down b counter, same smash attacks, aerials and tilts.
No because their swords have different properties.

The specials, number of combos and ranges for all the Links attacks make your approaches to the combat quite different. The remote bomb is quite different from the regular one and cant be used in recoveries for example but can be used in different situations for combo setups or escape. Y. Link arrows have a fire effect added to them and along T. Link are relatively quick compared to regular Link.

In regards to Mart and his Marth-based characters, Marth has a tipper which makes his approaches needing a bit more distance than the Lucina, Chrom and Roy. Lucina is pretty much an echo with the only difference being her not being a tipper so she has more freedom to attack at different ranges. Roy has fire added attacks and Chrom can use one of the Ike's specials which makes him have a worse recovery than them.

Regarding same principles in cartoon characters, Im referring to pretty much overexaggerated physical features and stylized appearance, normally big or exageratted eyes and mouths to make funny expressions and if its an anthropomorphic animal it will be generally seminude if male and fully clothed if female.

Hero like Link is a Zoning based character and a lot of his style depends on correctly managing specials along his regular attacks so he can use the MP bar without any issue, if you refer to the attack visuals, Hero is the only character with a shield bash on his standard attacks. Plus if using only the swords is an issue I fail to see how only using punches or kicks from any other type of character makes them any more interesting especially since a lot of Hero's animations are unique to him and some even are inspired by the melee techniques in Dragon Ball.

The characters have a lot more differences than the aesthetics.

 

[Dark Bagel]

View attachment 244768

I hate how much fun this is.

Yeah, it actually is pretty fun. (Mobile format because names were too long to fit into desktop ver)

 

[M@R!3]

Didn't the one for the Wii tank hard?

That was on everything, but yes, it tanked badly. They tried to do way too much, and as a result did basically nothing well aside from the soundtrack.

 

[Deleted member]

What everybody is thinking but are too afraid to say.

 

[Fenriraga]

Okay, I did potentially find something ACTUALLY worth talking about, though?

I'm probably late to the party since I don't know if this was the case with Hero and Banjo, but Terry's arrow that is supposed to bring you down to his trailer and information is technically here and ready. Doesn't mean much of anything since obviously he's coming this month, but MAYBE could mean he's coming sooner than later, who knows, probably not. He's close.

 

[GoodGrief741]

the Knack beign misaligned is bothering me to no end lmao

That just makes it better.

 

[Izanagi97]

Okay, I did potentially find something ACTUALLY worth talking about, though?

View attachment 244774

I'm probably late to the party since I don't know if this was the case with Hero and Banjo, but Terry's arrow that is supposed to bring you down to his trailer and information is technically here and ready. Doesn't mean much of anything since obviously he's coming this month, but MAYBE could mean he's coming sooner, who knows, probably not. He's close.

That's pretty interesting (then again, anything is more interesting than reading 2 pages of people ****ing with the page with inspect element)

 

[DarthEnderX]

So I have a question: does anyone have a picture of the mural? A little tinfoil hat-y, but I get the feeling they wouldn't squish too many characters onto it. For example, adding like, 20.

The mural doesn't squish though, it expands as needed. Because characters are in spaces in the mural now where there weren't empty spaces to begin with in the original mural.

It's clear that the mural is made with some kind of Photoshop-like program, and each character is a separate element. When new characters are added, everyone else gets moved around.

That's weirdly gatekeeping of you considering I know you support characters from titles like Bionic Commando that never went anywhere besides a decent remake.

And, again, you seem to like to discount any game in a franchise that isn't up to your arbitrary standards. It's a franchise with, like, 8 games in it.

It's OK to just have an incredibly successful one-off.

I don't think so. Especially if the only reason it WAS successful was because it was a pack-in game.

All the NES characters I support have actual legacies. They endured beyond the system they first appeared on as more than just a glorified tech demo for a peripheral.

 

[Deleted member]

Man you're all becoming CS majors at this point XD

 

[cj.]

Didn't the one for the Wii tank hard?

Yes, unfortunately the series is not what it was in the 90s, but I think it still has merits

I've mentioned the series once or twice, but I think its reputation has kind of sunk to the point where most people know it more from its failures than its successes. Not to say that should disqualify it (Sonic is a thing, after all) but it's a hard sell.

If we were to go back to the older era of horror games, I'd lean more toward Clock Tower, personally. Specifically Scissorman himself, though he'd be even more difficult to transform into a compelling fighter than someone like Pyramid Head, so he's got that working against him.

For protagonist characters, just for the sake of historical novelty, seeing a reference to Warp's Laura could be a fun throwback. Though she'd fit much better as a spirit or something. Even with my choices being as eclectic as they are, I can't really say I'd lobby to see her as playable. >_>

Clock Tower would be an excellent addiction, personally I would really love to see Sakurai adapt some unconventional genres to a fighting game like Smash

 

[Deleted member]

Okay, I did potentially find something ACTUALLY worth talking about, though?

View attachment 244774

I'm probably late to the party since I don't know if this was the case with Hero and Banjo, but Terry's arrow that is supposed to bring you down to his trailer and information is technically here and ready. Doesn't mean much of anything since obviously he's coming this month, but MAYBE could mean he's coming sooner, who knows, probably not. He's close.

Which is why I'm double downing on waking up tomorrow.

 

[Izanagi97]

Which is why I'm double downing on waking up tomorrow.

I usually find it easier to sleep through everything then check Reddit for news (when I'm on the night owl schedule)

 

[Deleted member]

I usually find it easier to sleep through everything then check Reddit for news (when I'm on the night owl schedule)

Imagine the possibility of waking up tomorrow to get paged for a possible leak.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Wow being a leaker is so much fun. Now I know why everyone's getting into this business.

Spoiler

 

[Sysreq]

Wow being a leaker is so much fun. Now I know why everyone's getting into this business.

Spoiler

View attachment 244780

>November 31st
Welp, looks like Terry is never coming out guys

 

[Fenriraga]

Oh hey, I managed to make his arrow visible. They literally just made it transparent. It even moves when you hover over it like the others. Neat.

Now to use my powers for evil.

Spoiler: OH CRAP GUYS HE'S OUT RIGHT NOW I HAVE PROOF GO TO PSN

 

[shinhed-echi]

If I had to make a female only Fighter Pass with the rules: Third Party only, no Echoes, Alts don't count, and must have appeared at least once on a Nintendo console, it would be:
Lara Croft, Chun-Li, Reimu, Tracer, and Arle.

Roll (Megaman)
Blaze Fielding (sorry, The Cat) (Streets of Rage)
Lara Croft
Shantae
Julie (Zombies Ate My Neighbors)


Hold it!
I need a second pass.

Sophitia (Soul Calibur)
Amy Rose
Kasumi (DoA)
Jill Valentine
KOS-MOS.

 

[Deleted member]

Wow being a leaker is so much fun. Now I know why everyone's getting into this business.

Spoiler

View attachment 244780

Literally they gave us an Akira Toriyama-drawn character to make everyone shut up about Goku (off with their heads)!

Future Generic Fist Guy main right here.

 

[SNEKeater]

Edit: It's also kind of hilarious/sad that Sony is a Japanese game developer, but the only series of theirs that they actually develop and originated in Japan is Gran Turismo...

Maybe I'm misreading but that's not true.

- Gravity Rush
- Ico
- Shadow of the Colossus
- The Last Guardian
- Knack
- Siren

And more. Maybe you're talking about the games that are in the top 10 you posted? If that's the case then I didn't say anything haha.

 

[Leotsune]

I have the feeling 2B will be the Joker for our second fighters pass, those 2 have a lot in common.
Just a hunch, don't mind me.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

And, again, you seem to like to discount any game in a franchise that isn't up to your arbitrary standards. It's a franchise with, like, 8 games in it.

I don't think so. Especially if the only reason it WAS successful was because it was a pack-in game.

All the NES characters I support have actual legacies. They endured beyond the system they first appeared on as more than just a glorified tech demo for a peripheral.

Bionnic Commando has 7 games released, 4 of which are just varying versions of the original game and a 2009 reimagining that was, by all accounts, absolutely terrible. It doesn't really have much of a legacy to be honest other than that as a good NES game that some people remember for the swinging mechanics. And that's absolutely OK! I think it's on par with Duck Hunt in terms of a game that is remembered for the NES title and little else. It doesn't matter if it's a glorified tech demo, the name Duck Hunt has endured just as long and to a wider community than most NES characters/icons, just as Wii Sports would do 20 years later. They have massive legacies, being a tech demo or a pack-in only adds to it, it doesn't diminish it.

I'm not discounting games that don't meet my arbitrary standards, as I'm not really establishing arbitrary standards to begin with. I'm just pointing out the fact that age =/= legacy or a game technically existing for 20 years, but only being a popular entity for half that time means its legacy is completely those 10 years then. The legacy is what makes a game series popular and recognizable. I even said I was in support of Shantae when I first started this entire discussion, but my specific point is that age is largely irrelevant as a statistic here. It's legacy, impact, and popularity that are the important aspects of additions to Smash. Those often go hand in hand with older series mind you, but age is some not some mystical "this series is more deserving" marker of deciding what should or should not be in Smash on its own, and it has largely not been how Smash has operated in any of its additions both first party and third party.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Wow being a leaker is so much fun. Now I know why everyone's getting into this business.

Spoiler

View attachment 244780

"Generic Fist Guy"

Better than Hat Ken I suppose :v

 

[Deleted member]

P-money

Oh my god, that is cringey

 

[KatKit]

No... I think you mean "that is awesome", my dude.

I have the feeling 2B will be the Joker for our second fighters pass, those 2 have a lot in common.
Just a hunch, don't mind me.

I do too. And I hope we're right. I even have images prepared for my deep "We are all 2B on this blessed day" celebratory speech.

Spoiler

 

[shinhed-echi]

I forgot how badass Nightmare is. After watching the Hilda Trailer from SCVI, I hope someone from SC gets in.

Yes, he is a sword wielder. But we don’t really have a brute sword wielder. Ike (And to an extent Ganondorf) is the only one.

Is it wrong that I want Sophitia to become Nightmare? She’d be pretty badass.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

No... I think you mean "that is awesome", my dude.



I do too. And I hope we're right. I even have images prepared for my deep "We are all 2B on this blessed day" celebratory speech.

Spoiler

View attachment 244790

2B pictures huh? *Clicks link and views first picture*

...

Is this from Soul Caliber? If not then I have so many questions.

 

[Deleted member]

No... I think you mean "that is awesome", my dude.



I do too. And I hope we're right. I even have images prepared for my deep "We are all 2B on this blessed day" celebratory speech.

Spoiler

View attachment 244790

Dude those look sick.

 

[Dark Bagel]

2B pictures huh? *Clicks link and views first picture*

...

Is this from Soul Caliber? If not then I have so many questions.

I believe the first picture is from a game called Gravity Rush, where the main character is sporting a 2B costume.

EDIT: Whoops, that was the second picture, my bad. I don't know WHERE the heck the first one is from. I'm guessing...King from Tekken, maybe? (KatKit forgive me if I'm off here...)

 

[-crump-]

If Square really is as easy to work with as Sakurai claims, I could definitely see 2B being a strong contender. The more I think about it, that would actually be a really cool choice!

I do too. And I hope we're right. I even have images prepared for my deep "We are all 2B on this blessed day" celebratory speech.

Spoiler

View attachment 244790

Makoto as 2B is a certified hoo boy moment

 

[Us3inMN]

You guys weren't kidding, this is fun!

 

[Deleted member]

You guys weren't kidding, this is fun!
View attachment 244811

Hero's treatment...I've seen harsher stuff before.

Way to trigger the SNK fam...again.

 

[KillerCage]

Broke: Minecraft content
Woke: Halo content
Bespoke: Fable content
Masterstroke: Ori content (THAT SOUNDTRACK THOOOOOO)

Is there anyone else here want Ori in Smash besides me?

Master Chief would be awesome to me but the only downside is there are no halo games on the Nintendo platform if they got one he'd have a chance unless him showing up in Minecraft counts the only problem I have is how would he work Doom guy is easy to imagine but MC I can't see it no matter how much i want it

Considering he has access to Covenant and Forerunner weapons along side UNSC gear, Master Chief has plenty of tools to make a moveset distinct from Doom Slayer.