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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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If Terry Garou doesn't happen I will sell my Switch.
If they didn't give Garou Terry but gave us Female Terry, I'll be surprised, in shock, and somehow satisfied at the same time (since it's the closest to a female fighter). However...I'm gonna go ask SNK a hundred questions for that.
 

SNEKeater

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If they didn't give Garou Terry but gave us Female Terry, I'll be surprised, in shock, and somehow satisfied at the same time (since it's the closest to a female fighter). However...I'm gonna go ask SNK a hundred questions for that.
Honestly if they don't put the Garou alt I don't expect any other costume for Terry.
I think it would be cool. Most of third party DLC characters have a different costume and it would be a nice detail.

Female Terry... well, I think it's almost impossible. Also I believe there are better ways to get good female representation, FemTerry is not one of these ways in my opinion.
I would be extremely surprised if Sakurai decided to include Fem Terry for some strange reason.
 

KatKit

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This is a good indicator of what to expect with his default costume. I'm really hoping we get Garou Terry, but I'm okay if we don't.



I'm simple. All I want is the Pink jacket/blue pants palette swap. I'll occasionally switch it up with his player 2 blue jacket (which is the one palette swap that's a safe bet). And I'll reserve the red jacket for that special lore matchup against Ukee Diddy Kong.
 
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EricTheGamerman

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Female Terry is ****ing awful and should stay away from this game. That version of Terry manages to piss off basically everyone. Also, please don't advocate for that as a "way to get another female character" in. I'm sorry, but there's a way to go about meaningful representation, and Female Terry sure as hell ain't it chief. There are wonderful non-sexualized and non-offensive options to choose from for female fighters, keep Fatal Cutie far away.
 

Michael the Spikester

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Female Terry is ****ing awful and should stay away from this game. That version of Terry manages to piss off basically everyone. Also, please don't advocate for that as a "way to get another female character" in. I'm sorry, but there's a way to go about meaningful representation, and Female Terry sure as hell ain't it chief. There are wonderful non-sexualized and non-offensive options to choose from for female fighters, keep Fatal Cutie far away.
Just reduce her breast size and add jeans instead of shorts and she's good to go.
 

-crump-

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I could see Terry getting a Rock Howard-esque color swap at the very least, which would be cool. Change his shirt and pants color to black, and the white splashes to his jacket, and make the hat yellow. Boom.
 
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EricTheGamerman

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Just reduce her breast size and add jeans instead of shorts and she's good to go.
No, that doesn't address anything about her existence. Fatal Cutie was created specifically to be a hyper-sexualized version of Terry as a joke for a mediocre game that also focused heavy on hyper-sexualizing its characters. She's an offensive joke to many and she has no good reason to exist.

There's no acceptable way to include her in Smash, let alone over the Garou costume that people actually like and is infinitely more iconic than Fatal Cutie will ever be.
 

NoOtherPersona

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This is a good indicator of what to expect with his default costume. I'm really hoping we get Garou Terry, but I'm okay if we don't.



I'm simple. All I want is the Pink jacket/blue pants palette swap. I'll occasionally switch it up with his player 2 blue jacket (which is the one palette swap that's a safe bet). And I'll reserve the red jacket for that special lore matchup against Ukee Diddy Kong.
those look great but we need a darker red
 

8-peacock-8

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No, that doesn't address anything about her existence. Fatal Cutie was created specifically to be a hyper-sexualized version of Terry as a joke for a mediocre game that also focused heavy on hyper-sexualizing its characters. She's an offensive joke to many and she has no good reason to exist.

There's no acceptable way to include her in Smash, let alone over the Garou costume that people actually like and is infinitely more iconic than Fatal Cutie will ever be.
Female Terry exists because the antagonist of SNK Heroines lusted over ALL of the girls and Terry but imagined him as a woman which opens another entire can of worms I will not touch.
 

King Sonnn DeDeDoo

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I don't see how Heihachi's backstory or personality would matter to people who don't know or care about Tekken, since not much of that is going to get into Smash. Those people would probably prefer the other Kazamas for thei rmore varied movesets.
While I agree that they would probably be more interesting Smash Bros. fighters than Heihachi, Tekken as a franchise is big enough that I don't think they really have to worry about appealing to those who don't know or care about the series. If they include a Tekken character, it's going to be for Tekken fans.

It's kind of the same thing with Terry, sure you could argue other SNK characters would be more interesting for Smash, but Terry Bogard is the most popular and the poster boy of the series.
 

Sysreq

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If they didn't give Garou Terry but gave us Female Terry, I'll be surprised, in shock, and somehow satisfied at the same time (since it's the closest to a female fighter). However...I'm gonna go ask SNK a hundred questions for that.
Not gonna lie, you should really set your standards higher. At this point you're just asking for literally anything that's labeled as a girl.
 

Al-kīmiyā'

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Female Terry is ****ing awful and should stay away from this game. That version of Terry manages to piss off basically everyone. Also, please don't advocate for that as a "way to get another female character" in. I'm sorry, but there's a way to go about meaningful representation, and Female Terry sure as hell ain't it chief. There are wonderful non-sexualized and non-offensive options to choose from for female fighters, keep Fatal Cutie far away.
She doesn't piss me off. She's hot. Regardless, it would be weird for her to be in Smash.
 
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AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea

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No, that doesn't address anything about her existence. Fatal Cutie was created specifically to be a hyper-sexualized version of Terry as a joke for a mediocre game that also focused heavy on hyper-sexualizing its characters. She's an offensive joke to many and she has no good reason to exist.
It's basically just Terry as a girl with a large bust and short shorts? I don't see what's so "offensive" about that. Terry even looks past the weirdness and starts to get used to/likes the female body. Plus, Miss X exists and isn't sexualized at all
 
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*sweatdrops*

sigh

I guess you're all right. I do need to set my standards higher. MAybe my desperation really caught up with me, and I probably won't get what I wanted at this rate.
 

KatKit

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This is actual female Terry:



And coincidentally, Alice shares some attacks/animations with Sakura (the female Ryu equivalent). I'd like both in a hypothetical Echo pass, even though they're technically semi-clones.

The less we speak about Midnight Bliss Terry, the better. I'm down for more women in the roster (to say the least), but not in the form of a non-canon gender swapped character created against their own will (it was a nightmare for him). We deserve better than that.
 
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KillerCage

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So much to respond to, too little time!

These are my least wanted characters.

Steve: While I can appreciate the pixelated design of Steve, he just comes off as a rectangular hit box rather than a character. His animations in Minecraft look stiff and he can't crouch properly. He doesn't even bend his elbows or knees and still it wouldn't like right if he did because of the way the Minecraft world works. Steve is a character who never looks right no matter what you try do to fix him. I'm not going to go into the gameplay side of things but I just don't see the core Minecraft gameplay elements translating over to Super Smash Bros Ultimate very well.

Dovahkiin: Aside from him being too realistic to the point of looking entirely out of place for my tastes, he is an avatar character so they're going to base him off from his most canonical appearance and from his promotional artwork, he'd essentially be a Western version of the Dragon Quest heroes, only with a shout that would have a windbox. I'm just going to lump in the chosen undead and Monster Hunter in here as well as I have the same problems with them as I do with the Dovahkiin with the arguments varying but the narrow scope being the same for all of them. In fact any kind of fully customisable avatar character joins him.

Reimu: Way too past that Japanese Kawaii boundary for me. Sure you have all of these Japanese anime swordsman like Marth, Cloud, Joker, etc to your Bleach, Dragonball, Jojo or whatever. Reimu would be the "Lucky Star" of Smash Bros and that is... ewww, too much of that kawaii stuff for me to handle. Yuck!

Jonesy (Fortnite): I don't want to give a reason as to why I don't like him... just no. Like kids aren't going to run over to Smash Bros just to buy Jonesy from Fortnite. Like the whole appeal of the game is that it's free to play and Super Smash Bros Ultimate is not only exclusive to one console, it also costs money so it's not like his inclusion would really help Nintendo in the long run but whatever.
With the exception of Reimu, I totally agree with your opinions regarding Steve, Dovahkiin, and Jonesy.
The "kawaii" argument does not make sense to me since we already have "kawaii" characters in Smash (Kirby, Isabelle, Pichu etc.)
Then again this is my subjective opinion. (I think of Reimu as the "Lina Inverse (Slayers)" of the Smash Bros potentials instead of Lucky Star.)

First, use this link and search: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_media_franchises

Second, they ARE good options as characters, but not as creative ones.
Lloyd is a character who doesn't have much to offer that characters like Hero, Link and Marth are already using in the game. Other game characters in his series are more creative than him ( Mikleo, Velvet, etc ).
Heihachi is a fighter who will only use punches and kicks. He is basically a Ryu who doesn't use special attacks. Other game characters in his series are more creative than him ( Jin, Kazuya, etc ).

I'm just saying Bandai Namco has other more creative characters to use. Like Klonoa, KOS-MOS, Prince of Cosmos, Agumon, Don Wada, etc.
I think the better choice between Lloyd and Heihachi would be the former.
Besides the Tales of series' combat system being incorporated into his playstyle, Lloyd does dual wield swords which is something no one in the current Smash roster does by default.
As for Heihachi...

Every time Heihachi is referred to as a Ryu clone a random innocent baby chick gets punished by god. Besides the silly comparison between a 2D fighting game character and a 3D fighting game character, Heihachi's moveset is nothing like Ryu's at all. Even if we are gonna look at this on the basic surface level, these two characters are different in abilities, design, and personality. Ryu uses fireball attacks while Heihachi uses electricity to amplify his body's strength. Ryu is young while Heihachi is old. Ryu is aspiring to be strong and good while Heihachi is evil and spiteful.

I really don't get the argument that Heihachi wouldn't be a unique and creative addition to the roster, especially if he bought Tekken mechanics with him to Smash. This video describes how these mechanics can be implemented in Smash quite well, and if I'm being honest this makes Heihachi an even wilder addition than Hero.
I'll be frank, I'm scared of Heihachi's inclusion.
That video that you have directing us to illustrates what I fear: his potentially complex moveset.
The idea of tilting the control stick by various degrees to incorporate Heihachi's limb attacks, while ingenious, would make him a very difficult character to master, maybe harder to master than Ryu and Ken.
While I'll concede that he won't be a clone of the Street Fighters, concept wise he is boring.
I think there are fighting game characters that fit better in Smash than Heihachi such as Scorpion with his rope dart, Ragna with his Blood Scythe, and Nightmare with Soul Edge.
 

TheYungLink

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I haven't played the game, but when Terry undergoes his genderbending, he doesn't like it, correct? He feels more comfortable in his male body, rather than just rolling with it. So as someone who would like to see more women in Smash for the sake of people who want them, I would not enjoy genderbent Terry.

In terms of fighting game characters, I would like to see Chun-Li if the Smash team doesn't mind double-dipping for unique fighters for a series already in the game. Aside from her though most of the women I would like to see come from non fighting games, like NieR: Automata, Tomb Raider, Xenoblade, Fire Emblem, more Nintendo series beyond just those two, etc. And obviously Dixie Kong.
 
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8-peacock-8

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I think there are fighting game characters that fit better in Smash than Heihachi such as Scorpion with his rope dart, Ragna with his Blood Scythe, and Nightmare with Soul Edge.
I mean, it's not like all those character can't coexist with Heihachi.

I haven't played the game, but when Terry undergoes his genderbending, he doesn't like it, correct? He feels more comfortable in his male body, rather than just rolling with it. So as someone who would like to see more women in Smash for the sake of people who want them, I would not enjoy genderbent Terry.
It happened because of a creep lusting over all the cast in the game is also lusting over Terry. The game literally takes place in a wet dream
 
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KillerCage

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Female Terry... well, I think it's almost impossible. Also I believe there are better ways to get good female representation, FemTerry is not one of these ways in my opinion.
I would be extremely surprised if Sakurai decided to include Fem Terry for some strange reason.
No, that doesn't address anything about her existence. Fatal Cutie was created specifically to be a hyper-sexualized version of Terry as a joke for a mediocre game that also focused heavy on hyper-sexualizing its characters. She's an offensive joke to many and she has no good reason to exist.

There's no acceptable way to include her in Smash, let alone over the Garou costume that people actually like and is infinitely more iconic than Fatal Cutie will ever be.
Female Terry exists because the antagonist of SNK Heroines lusted over ALL of the girls and Terry but imagined him as a woman which opens another entire can of worms I will not touch.
I'm sorry to tell you this Eric but...
...
SNK HEROINES IS CANON TO KING OF FIGHTERS!
THEREFORE FEMALE TERRY IS ALSO CANON!
 
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Garou Terry >>>>> Female Terry any day all day.

I would prefer Terry's Garou costume as an alt by so much it isn't even comparable.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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Female Terry is ****ing awful and should stay away from this game. That version of Terry manages to piss off basically everyone. Also, please don't advocate for that as a "way to get another female character" in. I'm sorry, but there's a way to go about meaningful representation, and Female Terry sure as hell ain't it chief. There are wonderful non-sexualized and non-offensive options to choose from for female fighters, keep Fatal Cutie far away.
...
I like Fatal Cutie. I think she should have been marketed as a character seperate from Terry but I think it's fine. And at a time where everyone is clamoring for a female rep it's not really a bad thing to have an option for a female version of Terry.

Now there are FAR more costumes I would want before Fatal Cutie but if it came to her being a costume I'd still be happy with it. Options hurt literally no one.
 

Garteam

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I will admit, Fatal Cutie Terry was mildly funny...

...within the context of SNK Heroines. It's hard to make the whole "macho, manly dude has to take on the identity of a girl and do feminine things" gag be funny for more than a minute or so. That's why TV shows and movies that run on this joke tend to be VERY hit or miss, as you need a really talented writer to give that premise any real shelf life.

Besides, it's not like every character needs to have an alt. Terry would be fine with or without a secondary costume, be that his Garou jacket or Fatal Cutie.

That being said, if Fatal Cutie's on the table, I want my Miss Cloud, Sakurai.
 

AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea

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I haven't played the game, but when Terry undergoes his genderbending, he doesn't like it, correct? He feels more comfortable in his male body, rather than just rolling with it.
There's this
5287cac846d5e67b6cb19d0c64ae2a13.png


I mean Fatal Cutie Terry isnt likely in the slightest but I dont see anything wrong with them adding it
 
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perfectchaos83

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There's this
View attachment 243863

I mean Fatal Cutie Terry isnt likely in the slightest but I dont see anything wrong with them adding it
My problem with Fatal cutie is that it's a very clear "Only getting in because female" inclusion. Fatal Cutie should be the absolute last alt Terry should have considering it's, in general, a very poor representation of the character.
 

Plank08

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If master Chief somehow got in smash, what do you guys think he would do?
Also GAME SHOW TIME! Give your most wanted character a tag line, I’ll start
Sackboy gets it together!
 

Banado_Boy

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I wonder if Terry’s gonna be repping KOF or just Fatal Fury... The mini gameplay clip we got didn’t really show anything exclusive to King of Fighters yet. The King of Fighters arena appeared in the first Fatal Fury, and Ryo did make a guest appearance in Fatal Fury Special.
 
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SneakyLink

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If master Chief somehow got in smash, what do you guys think he would do?
Also GAME SHOW TIME! Give your most wanted character a tag line, I’ll start
Sackboy gets it together!
Most wanted a tagline huh?
I'll do my 5 most wanted
SHANTAE Dances through the Danger!
STEVE Crafts into Battle!
HEAVY Manns Up!
HAYABUSA Sneaks in!
DOOM SLAYER Rips and Tears!
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I wonder if Terry’s gonna be repping KOF or just Fatal Fury... The mini gameplay clip we got didn’t really show anything exclusive to King of Fighters yet. The King of Fighters arena appeared in the first Fatal Fury, and Ryo did make a guest appearance in Fatal Fury Special.

If it’s just Fatal Fury, it’s gonna be Garou Terry as an alternate costume or nothing.
He's going to be representing King of Fighters, but they pretend it's all Fatal Fury stuff. Just like how Joker represents the Persona series, but they pretend it's all Persona 5 stuff.
 

EricTheGamerman

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She doesn't piss me off. She's hot. Regardless, it would be weird for her to be in Smash.
It's basically just Terry as a girl with a large bust and short shorts? I don't see what's so "offensive" about that. Terry even looks past the weirdness and starts to get used to/likes the female body. Plus, Miss X exists and isn't sexualized at all
...
I like Fatal Cutie. I think she should have been marketed as a character seperate from Terry but I think it's fine. And at a time where everyone is clamoring for a female rep it's not really a bad thing to have an option for a female version of Terry.

Now there are FAR more costumes I would want before Fatal Cutie but if it came to her being a costume I'd still be happy with it. Options hurt literally no one.
You've got to understand that Female Cutie is the absolute epitome of what people hate about oversexualizing characters in video games. They literally turned Terry into a woman just to be objectified as **** (watch the video where they reveal Terry, it's blatant and obvious). Fatal Cutie exists to pander to a very specific demographic, and is gross quite frankly as a creation. Especially when you consider how ****ing horribly it paints people the idea of transgenderism and is literally forced on to Terry without his consent and then becomes an object of sexualization.

It's ****ing disgusting, and I do think this "option" hurts some people. Fatal Cutie is specifically hated by a number of people for these reasons. It's "supposed" to be a "funny joke," but it basically takes a stab at everyone along the way and is horrifying the more you look at it. This isn't how you get female characters into the game. When people talk of representation in games, they want actual good representation that represents them and their lived experiences (whatever they may be) with respect. Fatal Cutie is the polar ****ing opposite of that and what does that say when the only other female rep in the Fighter's Pass besides Kazooie is an entirely male character that got turned into a female for a joke.
 

AceAttorney9000

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SNK Heroines in general is just that type of game that isn't supposed to be taken seriously. The whole thing's just meant to be one big joke, and I see no reason to get worked up over it, both the game in general and Fatal Cutie Terry specifically.

Admittedly, I'm kinda baffled that the game is actually considered canon to the King of Fighters lore, which means that characters who died in the previous games are now alive again. I guess the developers just really wanted an excuse to have Shermie in the next KOF game...

I wonder if Terry’s gonna be repping KOF or just Fatal Fury... The mini gameplay clip we got didn’t really show anything exclusive to King of Fighters yet. The King of Fighters arena appeared in the first Fatal Fury, and Ryo did make a guest appearance in Fatal Fury Special.

If it’s just Fatal Fury, it’s gonna be Garou Terry as an alternate costume or nothing.
Probably both. I would guess the music and spirits are gonna be mostly Fatal Fury stuff, but with some King of Fighters stuff mixed in as well. You can't really ignore the latter considering it's still getting games to this day, with Terry having an absolute perfect attendance in all of them.
 

EricTheGamerman

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SNK Heroines in general is just that type of game that isn't supposed to be taken seriously. The whole thing's just meant to be one big joke, and I see no reason to get worked up over it, both the game in general and Fatal Cutie Terry specifically.

Admittedly, I'm kinda baffled that the game is actually considered canon to the King of Fighters lore, which means that characters who died in the previous games are now alive again. I guess the developers just really wanted an excuse to have Shermie in the next KOF game...


Probably both. I would guess the music and spirits are gonna be mostly Fatal Fury stuff, but with some King of Fighters stuff mixed in as well. You can't really ignore the latter considering it's still getting games to this day, with Terry having an absolute perfect attendance in all of them.
"Just a joke" is basically saying downplaying the actual reality of what you just said. Sexist stuff said "as a joke" is absolutely still sexist.
 

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Having Garou Terry seems like a very Sakurai thing to do. They, however, would either have to let him have his hat or edit his animations though. Fatal Cutie Terry could happen, though they'd have to hire another VA or two.

Definitely curious to see what will happen.
 
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Some people like Female Terry and more power to them. I can only go off of the one image where she reacts to it and immediately think this ain't cutting it without edits. Honestly, I'd be more shocked if she got in rather than upset at this point. She's just not happening.

20191029_210409.png
 
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AceAttorney9000

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Having Garou Terry seems like a very Sakurai thing to do. They, however, would either have to let him have his hat or edit his animations though. Fatal Cutie Terry could happen, though they'd have to hire another VA or two.

Definitely curious to see what will happen.
Fatal Cutie Terry would need a different voice actor, though it likely wouldn't take any more work than the female alts for Robin and Corrin. In fact, it would likely take less since those two had to have Japanese and English voice actors for each (roughly 8 voice actors total), whereas the two Terrys will likely just have one Japanese voice actor for each.
 

Dalek_Kolt

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If master Chief somehow got in smash, what do you guys think he would do?
Also GAME SHOW TIME! Give your most wanted character a tag line, I’ll start
Sackboy gets it together!
Check my signature for Pig Ganon.
Alternately:
Medusa Slithers in
Dark Matter Overshadows All
Porky Means Business
Captain Syrup Strikes Gold
Samurai Goroh Cuts Through
 

TheYungLink

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Looking up the character sheet for genderbent Terry Bogard on TV Tropes is cool, because even in that form, his section describes Terry with he / him pronouns. Dunno if that happens in the game or not, but it's considerate.

In general, when you befriend and learn a lot about transgender people, you see old-fashioned gender bending jokes in a much more negative light. You have to work REAL hard to make those jokes funny to trans people and their friends.

"Genderbent Terry" is a VERY different concept than having a designated female version of a character, like with Robin. The former is playing as a "changed" form of an existing version, whereas the latter does not involve any "change," only a choice of gender that was already there.

My thoughts on genderbent Terry are summed up by Smashing Ramen's quote in my signature, as someone who was real sad that Sofia and female Erdrick didn't make it.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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Some people like Female Terry and more power to them. I can only go off of the one image where she reacts to it and immediately think this ain't cutting it without edits. Honestly, I'd be more shocked if she got in rather than upset at this point. She's just not happening.
Stick a shirt on her and make the jean shorts actually fit her and she'll be perfectly fine.

Especially when you consider how ****ing horribly it paints people the idea of transgenderism and is literally forced on to Terry without his consent and then becomes an object of sexualization.
I never even thought about the transgender stuff. I probably don't have the necessary information to accurately make this call, but I feel like female Terry doesn't really count as a transgender person since he still wants to be his birth gender. He was just temporarily turned into a girl. And yeah the situation is really scummy but for better or worse I'm not bothered by it on the grounds that Japan will be Japan.

Personally, if they did add female Terry, I think it should be in this scenario:
  • Four normal alts
  • Three bland jacket alts
  • One female Terry alt hidden behind the other seven alts.
EDIT: This way people get their jacket, and there is also some silly genderbent shenanigans (or at least I find it amusing).
 
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D

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Stick a shirt on her and make the jean shorts actually fit her and she'll be perfectly fine.
I wont argue Nintendo can't do that. They can. Just doubt they'd choose female Terry knowing that they'd have to censor her entire design. Seems counter-intuitive to choosing the character and then changing what made the character the character, for a lack of a better word. It's not like they censored Bayonetta's design when adding her, for example, so viewers know in fact that's the Bayonetta, if that makes sense. If they went with an alt, they'd most likely just choose the Garou costume.

Small tangent, but here's a relevant image for this entire conversation.

 
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