Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Sour Supreme]

So a rock witch after the jazz witch we already have?

...who is the third one?

"You'd better learn my name cause it's Ashley!"

 

[NoBS]

I'll just leave this here.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

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False analogy by those who want to be deceptive. There was a time when we were lacking bad guys when they were just as popular if not more popular than any other character that could join the game, and they were wanted because they were cool not because they were bad guys. This is quite separate than people saying they won’t play the game if any female is not added

 

[Deleted member]

Again, that 8 year old has a kid who looks like he's 16 or something instead of his actual age which is like 3

Wait till you see her use that guitar as a flying broomstick

You don't need to remind me that Guilty Gear is anime as ****.

 

[Opossum]

The main difference is that Robin is the protagonist throughout his story while with what has been said, Edelgard can be a co-protagonist but is then the main antagonist no matter what path is chosen. Byleth is the protagonist no matter what route you choose just like Robin so despite Edelgard's importance to the story, I still think Byleth would be chosen solely on the basis that they are the protagonist,

But going off that example, wouldn't the inclusions of Greninja and Incineroar prove that to be a non-issue? Back in the early Smash 4 days most thought that any starter newcomers would NEED to be in the form of a second trainer out of "fairness," not realizing that didn't have to do with why Pokémon Trainer was chosen in the first place. That's why Greninja blindsided so many people back then.

The same is true here. Yes, Edelgard can be either a protagonist or antagonist depending on the player's choices, but it doesn't change the fact that she CAN be the main protagonist alongside Byleth, which when added to her other selling points, should put her on equal ground.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

False analogy by those who want to be deceptive. There was a time when we were lacking bad guys when they were just as popular if not more popular than any other character that could join the game, and they were wanted because they were cool not because they were bad guys. This is quite separate than people saying they won’t play the game if any female is not added

And right now we are lacking females when there are plenty that are just as popular if not more popular than a lot of the characters in the game. They are also not only wanted because they are female, almost all of them have more than a big enough resume to be added in, or at least not a significantly smaller resume than many of the male characters requested.

As for your last sentence:

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I'll say it again, diversity is as good of a reason as half the bull**** people throw as to why they want characters in Smash circles. You can complain all you want about forced diversity, but it doesn't change the fact it's about as ideologically sound in terms of requesting Smash characters as your own personal reasons. There's no reason for someone to come in saying they like Geno because he looks cool or support Bandanna Dee because we "need" modern Kirby representation or whatever, and then turn around and complain that someone wants more diverse characters in the roster.

Seriously, have people actually paid attention to Smash speculation, people have been forcing the "representation issue" for years when it comes to Donkey Kong, Metroid, Kirby, Villains, Side-Characters, more wacky characters, less third parties, more third parties, more first parties, less first parties, the need for more fan requests, etc. ad naseum. Smash speculation is practically all about quotas and representation if you spend any time on forums lol. But it's suddenly bad when you apply real world diversity and representation that actually appeals to more people than some niche or less wide appealing fighter that people want.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You don't need to remind me that Guilty Gear is anime as ****.

It is the BEST ****ing anime. One of the reasons I want Sol is to see if Sakurai has the team animate Sol differently from everyone else to reflect how Xrd feels 2D

 

[TheTuninator]

While Byleth is of course the protagonist, I think Edelgard would be much more interesting from a gameplay perspective, as she would be the first non-sword-wielding FE character, and would also (based on her post-timeskip class) be a heavyweight/super-heavyweight brawler-style character, a niche currently occupied entirely by huge monsters and/or massive beefy dudes. That's a lot more fresh from a design standpoint, and might be enough to put her over the top.

 

[NoBS]

I certainly hope you're not referring to me, as I jokingly threw around the idea a few pages back. I for one was just reinstating my confidence in the game receiving more female representation.

But **** that. Even if I had been serious, how is that going to affect you? Need you really criticize somebody's hypothetical decision, even if they have their reasons? Sounds like you're the one wasting energy here.

No actually I remember you joking but the person you were responding to is a great example of who I am talking about, they didn’t even say a specific female character, they said if the pass didn’t include ANY female character that they weren’t going to buy it. That is clearly someone who has an ideology that has taken hold, and is the exact type of person I’m talking about, they didnt want a certain woman character they thought was cool because of the character themselves, they just wanted a woman.

It would only affect me if they became a big enough voice to affect change which is why it’s my duty to speak up when I see ****ty ideas being pushed. If you don’t have a problem with them then don’t have a problem with me.

 

[SvartWolf]

Anyway speaking of women, character 5 is this ***** of a witch, wyd?
View attachment 241905

I would duck and wait till her BS attack ends?


Still.. it could be worse.

 

[Deleted member]

But going off that example, wouldn't the inclusions of Greninja and Incineroar prove that to be a non-issue? Back in the early Smash 4 days most thought that any starter newcomers would NEED to be in the form of a second trainer out of "fairness," not realizing that didn't have to do with why Pokémon Trainer was chosen in the first place. That's why Greninja blindsided so many people back then.

The same is true here. Yes, Edelgard can be either a protagonist or antagonist depending on the player's choices, but it doesn't change the fact that she CAN be the main protagonist alongside Byleth, which when added to her other selling points, should put her on equal ground.

Pokemon's a different series though. Fire Emblem got two avatars, showing a pattern with the modern game representation.

Also it really is the Byleth show. The entire point of Three Houses story is that Byleth gets to see the perspectives of all three lords and the church. It's Fates but done right. It would be like arguing Ryoma or Xander over Corrin

 

[Cutie Gwen]

No actually I remember you joking but the person you were responding to is a great example of who I am talking about, they didn’t even say a specific female character, they said if the pass didn’t include ANY female character that they weren’t going to buy it. That is clearly someone who has an ideology that has taken hold, and is the exact type of person I’m talking about, they didnt want a certain woman character they thought was cool because of the character themselves, they just wanted a woman.

It would only affect me if they became a big enough voice to affect change which is why it’s my duty to speak up when I see ****ty ideas being pushed. If you don’t have a problem with them then don’t have a problem with me.

Ok but you're putting words into everyone's mouths for daring to disagree with you. Not to mention you said multiple people were boycotting the game for a lack of women in the DLC yet you only mentioned one example. I assume you're fine with the dude who refused to buy any Smash games until they add more DK content though feel free to correct me on that

 

[TheTuninator]

Pokemon's a different series though. Fire Emblem got two avatars, showing a pattern with the modern game representation.

Also it really is the Byleth show. The entire point of Three Houses story is that Byleth gets to see the perspectives of all three lords and the church

I dunno, honestly. Sakurai has to know that cramming in only sword-wielders along with one quasi-mage doesn't represent Fire Emblem well at all.

 

[Heoj]

This whole topic of female character representation seems a bit spicy, but i don't hoave much of an opinion regarding it. I don't want to add a female character for the sake of a female character and thats pretty much it. Imma just list my top 10 characters that i would want to see.

Geno
2nd Sonic rep
Heavy
Skull Kid
Phoenix Wright
Hollow Knight
Leon Kennedy/Jill Valentine
Edelgard
Spyro
Grovyle

 

[Sour Supreme]

This whole topic of female character representation seems a bit spicy, but i don't hoave much of an opinion regarding it. I don't want to add a female character for the sake of a female character and thats pretty much it. Imma just list my top 10 characters that i would want to see.

Geno
2nd Sonic rep
Heavy
Skull Kid
Phoenix Wright
Hollow Knight
Leon Kennedy/Jill Valentine
Edelgard
Spyro
Grovyle

Who is this "Geno" guy everybody's talking about?

 

[Deleted member]

It is the BEST ****ing anime. One of the reasons I want Sol is to see if Sakurai has the team animate Sol differently from everyone else to reflect how Xrd feels 2D

The new game does look pretty ****ing good. Plus Gentlepanda always has a way of winning me over to his waifus.

I dunno, honestly. Sakurai has to know that cramming in only sword-wielders along with one quasi-mage doesn't represent Fire Emblem well at all.

Nothing really is going to represent Fire Emblem's strategic character-driven gameplay unless you have Dimitri, Edelgard, and Claude all incorporated into Byleth's moveset.

At the very least, Byleth can use every weapon in the game so Sakurai has more room to work with beyond Corrin's weird chainsaw sword and dragon powers.

 

[osby]

I dunno, honestly. Sakurai has to know that cramming in only sword-wielders along with one quasi-mage doesn't represent Fire Emblem well at all.

I mean, does Sakurai really cares about adding characters for the sake of representing franchises better?

From what he said about Robin and Corrin, they were added because they had cool powers, not because they represent Fire Emblem well.

Also, it's a shame that people ignore Robin's durability mechanic so often just because they don't have an ax or spear.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I mean, does Sakurai really cares about adding characters for the sake of representing franchises better?

From what he said about Robin and Corrin, they were added because they had cool powers, not because they represent Fire Emblem well.

Also, it's a shame that people ignore Robin's durability mechanic so often just because they don't have an ax or spear.

I see people ignore it cause it's a detriment and why Robin never shows up in high level play. Seriously Sakurai what the **** you understood how limited resources should be handled with Hero so how is Robin still a mess?

 

[Deleted member]

I see people ignore it cause it's a detriment and why Robin never shows up in high level play. Seriously Sakurai what the **** you understood how limited resources should be handled with Hero so how is Robin still a mess?

Because Robin's biggest asset isn't in gameplay, but sTraTEgy

 

[TheTuninator]

I mean, does Sakurai really cares about adding characters for the sake of representing franchises better?

From what he said about Robin and Corrin, they were added because they had cool powers, not because they represent Fire Emblem well.

Also, it's a shame that people ignore Robin's durability mechanic so often just because they don't have an ax or spear.

Robin's moveset is a step in the right direction, to be sure, but that's one character out of 7.

 

[osby]

I don't want to add a female character for the sake of a female character and thats pretty much it.

2nd Sonic rep

Okay, but this joke practically writes itself.

 

[NoBS]

And right now we are lacking females when there are plenty that are just as popular if not more popular than a lot of the characters in the game. They are also not only wanted because they are female, almost all of them have more than a big enough resume to be added in, or at least not a significantly smaller resume than many of the male characters requested.

As for your last sentence:

View attachment 241907

Incorrect, out of the top 13 in the recent sabi polling only 2 were female, Reimu and Shantae. Okay that means they could get in and they could not and it wouldn’t be a big deal either way, as there are a plethora of male characters more and equally requested, nor are the females the most wanted as K Rool was number one for awhile and Ridley was also top of the heap for awhile.

And let’s be honest, Reimu is not popular world wide, shantae isnt much either. These are niche picks that a small fan base got elevated in this dedicated polling, there aren’t really any female characters that would blow the lid off things, like sora or master chief would.


If sakurai reaches for the stars then pretty much there aren’t any females that would break the internet or be chosen to bring new fans to smash. All those picks would be male.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Because Robin's biggest asset isn't in gameplay, but sTraTEgy

HERO IS EVEN MORE STRATEGIC AS YOU NEED TO BALANCE RESOURCES WITH QUICK DESICION MAKING ALONGSIDE AERIALS THAT TAKE 5 YEARS TO COME OUT WITH AN INFINITELY REFILLING MP BAR WHY DOES ROBIN NOT GET THIS PRIVILEDGE OF STRONG ASS MOVES

 

[Door Key Pig]

Okay, but this joke practically writes itself.

False equivalency? Comparing a popular game series with desired characters to something more general?

 

[Deleted member]

HERO IS EVEN MORE STRATEGIC AS YOU NEED TO BALANCE RESOURCES WITH QUICK DESICION MAKING ALONGSIDE AERIALS THAT TAKE 5 YEARS TO COME OUT WITH AN INFINITELY REFILLING MP BAR WHY DOES ROBIN NOT GET THIS PRIVILEDGE OF STRONG *** MOVES

Because Hero can solo Dragon Quest while Robin needs his friends to survive lunatic +. It's the perfect gameplay->Smash Bros transition I've seen

 

[DarthEnderX]

This ************'s really saying Sol Badguy would ruin Smash huh

Well, he definitely would, because he'd be taking Kunio's ArcSys slot.

you only see tracer as “the gay character”

I only see her as the inferior gay character.

Who are these boycotters then?

Not that I'm taking his side, but Black Velvet has spefically said they were done with the game if pack #5 wasn't a female.

Okay, but this joke practically writes itself.

A joke anyway.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

False equivalency? Comparing a popular game series with desired characters to something more general?

You only want a Sonic character for the sake of another Sonic character yet condemn women under the assumption the character being a woman is the only reason they want them so it's not a false equivalency

 

[osby]

False equivalency? Comparing a popular game series with desired characters to something more general?

Not really, considering Sonic has a ton of characters and there's no way all of them are popular.

It's like people who wanted more cartoony characters and then complained about Piranha Plant.

 

[Sysreq]

If sakurai reaches for the stars then pretty much there aren’t any females that would break the internet or be chosen to bring new fans to smash. All those picks would be male.

Because Terry and Hero did?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Because Terry and Hero did?

I mean Hero did break the internet because of Smash players being babies about RNG so....

Well, he definitely would, because he'd be taking Kunio's ArcSys slot.

Naaaaah Kunio ain't competition. They both have vastly different legacies so they can't really compare.

Now Ragna on the other hand is my biggest ****ing fear

 

[osby]

If sakurai reaches for the stars then pretty much there aren’t any females that would break the internet or be chosen to bring new fans to smash. All those picks would be male.

I didn't know Lara Tomb Raider was a guy.

 

[Captain Fun]

People can want whatever character they want, for whatever reason they want, no matter how good of a reason you think that is. Telling them otherwise isn’t going to help you win whatever stupid culture war you think you’re fighting.

 

[SvartWolf]

I mean Hero did break the internet because of Smash players being babies about RNG so....

Naaaaah Kunio ain't competition. They both have vastly different legacies so they can't really compare.

Now Ragna on the other hand is my biggest ****ing fear

Nah... ragna doesn't have the big joker energy that Sol and guilty gear have...

(Still if we are getting ragna.. at least give me rachel so i can bully him DX)

 

[NoBS]

Ok but you're putting words into everyone's mouths for daring to disagree with you. Not to mention you said multiple people were boycotting the game for a lack of women in the DLC yet you only mentioned one example. I assume you're fine with the dude who refused to buy any Smash games until they add more DK content though feel free to correct me on that

I’m not putting words into anyone’s mouth, if you solely are going to buy the pass because of ANY female character then what else are you doing other than asking for fake female genitalia as a requisite for your character? I’m not going to go back through the thread of every single time I’ve seen some bull**** like that, I gave you one obvious case that you yourself talked to and that’s good enough to make my point.


Yes I do disagree with that DK person, cause if you’re avoiding the game if you don’t get more DK stuff then what does that mean that you are happier with representation than playing the VIDEO GAME, if that’s the case I say probably you shouldn’t but the game, play something you enjoy.

But at least with that case it doesn’t have real life political connotations and ideologies that affect real people. Just as those that are posting twitter posts insinuating we are sexist for not wanting people to pick characters based on sex, so too does these people’s ideologies spill into their real life views of the world and people. It’s wrong here and it’s wrong there.

 

[Heoj]

I mean i basically mean either shadow or tails, but... Sure

 

[Evil Trapezium]

But going off that example, wouldn't the inclusions of Greninja and Incineroar prove that to be a non-issue? Back in the early Smash 4 days most thought that any starter newcomers would NEED to be in the form of a second trainer out of "fairness," not realizing that didn't have to do with why Pokémon Trainer was chosen in the first place. That's why Greninja blindsided so many people back then.

The same is true here. Yes, Edelgard can be either a protagonist or antagonist depending on the player's choices, but it doesn't change the fact that she CAN be the main protagonist alongside Byleth, which when added to her other selling points, should put her on equal ground.

That is true and Lucario is an even better example since you can never start out with him. Pokemon is pretty weird when it comes to characters but that's only because the Pokemon are the main show of it's own series. Fire Emblem seems to be consistent with other series in Smash Bros but I guess we'll have to wait and see if Edelgard ever makes into Smash Bros before Byleth.

Maybe I'm just looking a little too far into it. Oh well. Maybe a character other than a protagonist can make it into a series already represented but a new series will probably never be introduced without the protagonist first.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Out of the fighting game reps people are asking for, I think I've seen Tekken/Soul Calibur and ArcSys reps the most, with the occasional Mortal Kombat thrown in. You know what would be kinda cool? A Killer Instinct rep. That's the one fighter I haven't really gotten a chance to play (and I've played almost everything under the sun from Dark Awake: The King has no Name to Koihime Enbu).

Jago or Black Orchid would be the likely picks.

Fulgore is the mascot of the series so I’d think it would be Jago and Fulgore and maybe Orchid. That said, all three would be good choices.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Fighting game franchises always goes for the mascot anyways.

Killer Instinct: Fulgore
Mortal Kombat: Scorpion
Soulcalibur: Nightmare
Tekken: Heihachi

 

[NoBS]

People can want whatever character they want, for whatever reason they want, no matter how good of a reason you think that is. Telling them otherwise isn’t going to help you win whatever stupid culture war you think you’re fighting.

Actually it is because speaking truth keeps society in track, thanks for your input though.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Incorrect, out of the top 13 in the recent sabi polling only 2 were female, Reimu and Shantae. Okay that means they could get in and they could not and it wouldn’t be a big deal either way, as there are a plethora of male characters more and equally requested, nor are the females the most wanted as K Rool was number one for awhile and Ridley was also top of the heap for awhile.

And let’s be honest, Reimu is not popular world wide, shantae isnt much either. These are niche picks that a small fan base got elevated in this dedicated polling, there aren’t really any female characters that would blow the lid off things, like sora or master chief would.


If sakurai reaches for the stars then pretty much there aren’t any females that would break the internet or be chosen to bring new fans to smash. All those picks would be male.

Ah yes, because one poll is the be-all-end-all representation of everyone in the entire fanbase, and 100% reflects the views of everyone in the entire world that plays Smash.