Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Cutie Gwen]

Ackshually, the release dates of Xenoblade Chronicles X and Fire Emblem Fates were pretty close to each other, both in Japan and in the West. I think in both instances, X even came out before Fates. Personally, I think she was considered, but Corrin was eventually chosen for several reasons: They wouldn't need a stage to properly represent them (X just has too little in common with 1 for Bionis' Leg to really fit Elma), Fire Emblem was already more successful simply for being on the 3DS, and X being a Wii U game, which. . . yeah. So kinda the same reason why we didn't get Inkling back then, either.



You forgot Pokémon. Pokémon also gets a pass.

Pokemon is the most successful franchise on the planet so I kind of count it seperately

 

[ze9]

Hardcore Smash fans hate RPGs that aren't related to Mario and they hate FE so much because it got lucky and had a few last minute characters that they are filled with seething rage. Kinda like at how some people are filled with rage at the mere sight of the pride and trans flags in Celeste

Or how somebody's blood starts to boil at the mere thought of how a goofy bear with a goofier bird sidekick is playable in Smash, after Nintendo and Sakurai had the sheer audacity of working with a competitor just to make people happy instead of shoving some random char from the latest FE release down their throats...

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I never understood the aversion to Fire Emblem honestly, realistically its a franchise with a semi-clone and 2 actual clones. Stage selection for them is quite pitiful and they only have one item in the game. Of the non-clone additions, Marth is the posterboy, Ike was added due to being pretty much the only character with his archetype, Robin due to Awakening success and Corrin due to Sakurai wanting a recent character (only other option I could think is Elma, but she probably came a few months too late to be considered) and the team encouraging him.

Timing is what makes characters happen or not happen most of the time, and in the case of Xenoblade its something that has hurt their chances the most.

I find it funny how Smash fans are able to complain about a semi-clone and two literal clones. It's like complaining about getting a cherry on top of your cake.

My bad taste, other than making me like both good games and 3d girls (thus excluding me from the FE fandom), leads me to believe that not having 235235 characters who all look the same and shout the same catchphrases works in the best interest of the "greater good of Smash".

You really seem to be missing the point here. This is largely about respecting others' opinions, which you can't seem to do. In response to people wanting Fire Emblem characters you pretty much told them to shut up and be happy with what they have, which isn't considerate of their feelings at all. When people tried to convey this to you you've done nothing but insult them. That's why people are against you right now.

 

[Flyboy]

I love Dante and after playing DMC V finally I'm even more on board. I want Phoenix first though.

V for Smash also, I love that dramatic loser.

 

[SvartWolf]

Imagine referring to real life women as "3d girls"

i think i'm still recovering from that cringe :S

I never understood the aversion to Fire Emblem honestly, realistically its a franchise with a semi-clone and 2 actual clones. Stage selection for them is quite pitiful and they only have one item in the game. Of the non-clone additions, Marth is the posterboy, Ike was added due to being pretty much the only character with his archetype, Robin due to Awakening success and Corrin due to Sakurai wanting a recent character (only other option I could think is Elma, but she probably came a few months too late to be considered) and the team encouraging him.

Timing is what makes characters happen or not happen most of the time, and in the case of Xenoblade its something that has hurt their chances the most.

Also roy was readded not to pelase FE fans, but to please Melee fans, like... are you pokemon fans happy that they readded pichu? uh? i can't hear anyhing over you guys screaming in extasis/s

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I love Dante and after playing DMC V finally I'm even more on board. I want Phoenix first though.

V for Smash also, I love that dramatic loser.

I'd say him, RE rep or Phoenix Wright are the most likely Capcom rep to get in.

I'd say Monster Hunter too but I feel if he/she were to be in they'd be revealed with Rathalos whose pretty much the face of the series and represents Monster Hunter enough.

 

[BZL8]

State of the thread right now:

On a serious note, the debates as to whether Fire Emblem should get another rep never ceases to produce their fair share of hot takes, rage, rebuttals, and salt mines. Not to mention that ridding Fire Emblem of getting newcomers isn't going to stop anime swordsmen from ever getting into Smash or being highly requested (Hero from Dragon Quest got in, Sora from Kingdom Hearts still being requested, etc.), if that's what those people want to avoid.

 

[Calamitas]

Pokemon is the most successful franchise on the planet so I kind of count it seperately

You may picture me shrugging. Fair enough.

 

[Captain Fun]

This feels more like a this kid has more toys than the other kid argument.

This is exactly what it is, except a lot of the kids in question are pushing 30.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

This is exactly what it is, except a lot of the kids in question are pushing 30.

And here I am embarassed at how I was like 5 years ago with that kind of behaivour, yeesh

 

[Deleted member]

Or how somebody's blood starts to boil at the mere thought of how a goofy bear with a goofier bird sidekick is playable in Smash, after Nintendo and Sakurai had the sheer audacity of working with a competitor just to make people happy instead of shoving some random char from the latest FE release down their throats...

You seem obsessed with her. And funny that comment coming from you since the thought of more Fire Emblem seems to trigger you a lot.

 

[Guynamednelson]

are you pokemon fans happy that they readded pichu?

Yes I am. I am less interested in every single Pokemon rep being a "badass" anthro.

Stage selection for them is quite pitiful and they only have one item in the game.

Both of the evil two have proof that Sakurai isn't sucking that franchise's ****. Besides what you've said about FE's stage and item content, look at Pokemon:

• Poke Balls were put on the backburner compared to ATs this time
• There are now more promoted ATs than Poke Balls, not even mons with Isabelle-tier popularity (besides Charizard of course) have been promoted
• We haven't gotten a rep that isn't anthromorphic, a starter, or chosen because of popularity/promotion that definitely exists since Brawl.
• Incineroar has to borrow a stage from Punch-Out.

 

[RandomAce]

Or how somebody's blood starts to boil at the mere thought of how a goofy bear with a goofier bird sidekick is playable in Smash, after Nintendo and Sakurai had the sheer audacity of working with a competitor just to make people happy instead of shoving some random char from the latest FE release down their throats...

We get it dude, we should pray to our DK Rare Western overlords for their clearly superior picks over the Japanese RPG trash.

All I see from your posts this past day are hypocriticals that people have disproven over and over and all your really doing at this point is stretching your hate far more than it needed to be. It’s really annoying.

 

[ze9]

You seem obsessed with her. And funny that comment coming from you since the thought of more Fire Emblem seems to trigger you a lot.

I'm just ****posting each time I die in Dark Souls, that post happened to be the last.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

And how do you unlock her for Ultimate, you may ask?

KESH FURST

who?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

who?

It's a meme based off of some funny delivery of Nero in DMCV

EDIT: Oh you mean Nico. The girl who drives the van in DMCV

 

[Calamitas]

Also roy was readded not to pelase FE fans, but to please Melee fans, like... are you pokemon fans happy that they readded pichu? uh? i can't hear anyhing over you guys screaming in extasis/s

Not gonna lie, Roy is probably my least favourite character on the entire roster as of right now. And that's with FE being one of my favourite series in the game. Playing Binding Blade has left its scars.
And with regards to Pichu. . . kinda? It's at least not another god damn Generation 1 Pokémon. But on the other hand it's directly related to Pikachu, which makes this all more eh.

 

[Kotor]

In terms of Three Houses, I'm utterly baffled people are seriously using the "favoritism is bad" argument against adding any one of the TH lords over the other two. Why are people like this? I don't remember seeing people acting like this towards Pokemon. Hell, just last year, people rallied behind Decidueye while ignoring Incineroar and Primarina. At least, until Vergeben started talking, but even then, there were those that were still against Incineroar getting in until the official reveal.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

In terms of Three Houses, I'm utterly baffled people are seriously using the "favoritism is bad" argument against adding any one of the TH lords over the other two. Why are people like this? I don't remember seeing people acting like this towards Pokemon. Hell, just last year, people rallied behind Decidueye while ignoring Incineroar and Primarina. At least, until Vergeben started talking, but even then, there were those that were still against Incineroar getting in until the official reveal.

Oh no it happened with Pokemon. There was Decidueye, Mimikyu, Incineroar and Lycanroc all together

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

In terms of Three Houses, I'm utterly baffled people are seriously using the "favoritism is bad" argument against adding any one of the TH lords over the other two. Why are people like this? I don't remember seeing people acting like this towards Pokemon. Hell, just last year, people rallied behind Decidueye while ignoring Incineroar and Primarina. At least, until Vergeben started talking, but even then, there were those that were still against Incineroar getting in until the official reveal.

I'm still against Incineroar getting in.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

• Ike (moveset more faithful to games)

This reminds me. I remember someone talking about how the Fire Emblem characters seemed to be based off of the weapon they hold rather then their abilities themselves. Like, Roy's blade is special because it breaks shoots fireballs, but in Smash he's a rushdown character due to his gimmick of being "reverse Marth" in Super Smash Bros. Melee. I wonder what Marth, Ike, and Roy would be like if they were designed like Robin and Corrin were.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

This reminds me. I remember someone talking about how the Fire Emblem characters seemed to be based off of the weapon they hold rather then their abilities themselves. Like, Roy's blade is special because it breaks shoots fireballs, but in Smash he's a rushdown character due to his gimmick of being "reverse Marth" in Super Smash Bros. Melee. I wonder what Marth, Ike, and Roy would be like if they were designed like Robin and Corrin were.

Ike would be SSS tier as it'd be accurate to PoR as you can beat it with just Ike

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I'm still against Incineroar getting in.

I wanted Decidueye because he looked awesome and if I could have the chance to have another Pokemon I'd still vote for it. Geno will be the closest thing to having Decidueye now.

 

[ze9]

A more accurate Ike would probably be more or less as he is now, but he'd be a lot faster and he'd have Cloud's neutral B.

 

[KarneraMythos]

It's no page 666 if there's no reference to DOOM
Doom Slayer is coming to kick all the FE *****, and in his ravenous hatred he'll know no peace. Soon.

You mean the same video game that lets you do the inverse and kick Doom Slayer's ass with a Fire Emblem character? Neat!

Fire Emblem is already overrepresented as it is. We don't need another character.

Mario and Pokemon is understandable being two of Nintendo's most popular and among recognizable franchises but Fire Emblem doesn't fit this bill. Its popular sure but nowhere close to those two especially Pokemon.

How about giving other franchises more represenation like Donkey Kong (Dixie Kong) or Kirby (Bandana Waddle Dee) for example?

> Wanting more cereal box characters
> This obsessed against a franchise getting numbers around All-Stars like Mario and Pokémon, which are already more than plentiful

Or, you can just do the smart thing and not pick those characters you hate so much. Wow, novel concept right there, eh? No?

Also, it's worth mentioning that Fire Emblem is developed by Intelligent Systems. The vitriol thrown at their characters suggests you lack something else as well.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I think Saber is super slept on here.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

View attachment 240930
You mean the same video game that lets you do the inverse and kick Doom Slayer's *** with a Fire Emblem character? Neat!



> Wanting more cereal box characters
> This obsessed against a franchise getting numbers around All-Stars like Mario and Pokémon, which are already more than plentiful

Or, you can just do the smart thing and not pick those characters you hate so much. Wow, novel concept right there, eh? No?

Also, it's worth mentioning that Fire Emblem is developed by Intelligent Systems. The vitriol thrown at their characters suggests you lack something else as well.

It's like I said, people who get upset about 'anime swordusers' never seem to mind punchy cartoons from platformers

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

A more accurate Ike would probably be more or less as he is now, but he'd be a lot faster and he'd have Cloud's neutral B.

Or perhaps Simon's; I hear he can use axes.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

> Wanting more cereal box characters
> This obsessed against a franchise getting numbers around All-Stars like Mario and Pokémon, which are already more than plentiful

Or, you can just do the smart thing and not pick those characters you hate so much. Wow, novel concept right there, eh? No?

Also, it's worth mentioning that Fire Emblem is developed by Intelligent Systems. The vitriol thrown at their characters suggests you lack something else as well.

Who says I hate Fire Emblem? I just think its overrepresented as it is. Better to have another character from franchise that doesn't have lot of characters then another already represented with many characters as it has.

With something like Donkey Kong we'd have 4 characters and Kirby same with 4 as well. Another Fire Emblem character would be having an 8th one. Let another franchise that isn't represented as much have more attention then one that already has plenty.

I also already said it that Mario and Pokemon are understandable given their legacy. Fire Emblem sure popular but doesn't match those two.

 

[frozolloyd]

You really seem to be missing the point here. This is largely about respecting others' opinions, which you can't seem to do. In response to people wanting Fire Emblem characters you pretty much told them to shut up and be happy with what they have, which isn't considerate of their feelings at all. When people tried to convey this to you you've done nothing but insult them. That's why people are against you right now.

If thats what this conversation was about, then I 100 percent agree with you. Even if you don't LIKE a character, you should have the common decency to respect the other's opinon, even if you disagree and move on. And just for the reference of Fire emblem fans, this also works the other way. A person should not be required to want or be happy with a character in smash, at the end of the day its their own opinion. My problem here, tehpony, is that this opposite truth isn't being respected. Take a look at this quote that seemingly got glossed over.

I wish people could stop pretending they don't want FE characters for some "greater good of Smash" when they really just don't personally like them.
Like, I don't care if you don't want Edelgard, that's your opinion, but at least admit it's because you like having bad taste and not because you care about "proper series representation" or whatever.

This person literally implies that the only reason you cannot like Edelgard is that you MUST have a bad taste in characters. Because there is obviously no other logical reason a person could not want to have Edelgard as a DLC fighter. It can't be because they would prefer more fan demanded characters or would rather have more third party characters or have never played three houses (or even fire emblem) and are not interested in the chararacter designs, no no no… it HAS to be because they have a bad taste in characters. Also it is worth noting about 14 people agreed with this sentiment. This is the very opposite of "respecting each other's opinions". Which this entire idea is weird to me. Were people who didn't want hero in the wrong for inherently not liking the character, or preferring other Square enix reps? Like I said, rant aside, it goes both ways. Just as you should be allowed to advocate for a character, not everyone needs to be to want your character as well.
TLDR: Respect each other opinons, regardless of whether they want your favorite character or not.

 

[KarneraMythos]

I think Saber is super slept on here.

I have ammo every time someone says, "But she's from an eroge!" and my personal favorite, "Visual Novels aren't video games!"

I am more-than-happy to include those list of reasons if you're curious.

It's like I said, people who get upset about 'anime swordusers' never seem to mind punchy cartoons from platformers

Because god forbid we get sword users with unique animations instead of a bipedal creature with kidnatomy that has the same aerial animations as most characters in the cast.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think Saber is super slept on here.

"But it would ruin Smash to include a porn character!" Yeah and Bayonetta 2 was promoted by porn stars in cosplay, a marketing stunt thought of and paid by Nintendo

 

[TheCJBrine]

Fire Emblem is already overrepresented as it is. We don't need another character.

We don't "need" any character, we all simply want.


-------------------------------

To everyone:

I hope you know how Steve fans feel. I agree, this whole argument is stupid; we don't care if someone dislikes a character or franchise, but if they start bringing up "facts" as if their opinion is superior to everyone else's, and that a character "absolutely 'shouldn't' be in," it's frickin stupid and annoying. It's a videogame, not some dire or important real-life event that relies on you and others' choices...as if these people's choices would cause things to go wrong anyway.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

*ahem*

Fire Emblem bad

unga bunga

am I doing it right?

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I have ammo every time someone says, "But she's from an eroge!" and my personal favorite, "Visual Novels aren't video games!"

I am more-than-happy to include those list of reasons if you're curious.

PM me the eroge reasons if you don't mind.

"But it would ruin Smash to include a porn character!" Yeah and Bayonetta 2 was promoted by porn stars in cosplay, a marketing stunt thought of and paid by Nintendo

If Saber gets in, I think it will be due to the anime and FGO. Both those against her because of the original game and those using it to argue for Saber's "legacy" or whatever are kind of missing the point.

 

[Calamitas]

*ahem*

Fire Emblem bad

unga bunga

am I doing it right?

You forgot to complain about blue hair, swords, and Marth.

 

[Schnee117]

We don't "need" any character, we all simply want.


-------------------------------

To everyone:

I hope you know how Steve fans feel. I agree, this whole argument is stupid; we don't care if someone dislikes a character or franchise, but if they start bringing up "facts" as if their opinion is superior to everyone else's, and that a character "absolutely 'shouldn't' be in," it's frickin stupid and annoying. It's a videogame, not some dire or important real-life event that relies on you and others' choices.

They just want to emulate their hero, Ben Shapiro.

 

[KarneraMythos]

PM me the eroge reasons if you don't mind.

If Saber gets in, I think it will be due to the anime and FGO. Both those against her because of the original game and those using it to argue for Saber's "legacy" or whatever are kind of missing the point.

PM? Pssssssssh...

Pssssssssh...

1. Her VN places very low emphasis on the sex scenes. They're hardly important and it isn't your standard eroge either. In fact, they may as well not even be a thing, and they sure as hell aren't in later spin-offs/re-releases

2. Later games do away with the sex scenes and focus entirely on the world-building and characters, intensifying the flame wars with the latter. If anything, those topics are hotly-debated as opposed to...everything else detractors seem to slam Fate for. Yeah, Type-Moon fans don't talk much about the sexual fan-service as much as they do all else. Shocker, I know

3. We already have games that imply sex off-screen and cover equally raunchy/adult subjects. Arturia shouldn't be excluded just because she's been ****** on-screen at least once. Samus? Ike? Marth? Captain Falcon? Unless Nintendo runs on the Magic Stork fantasy, all of these characters participated/came about through sexual contraception at some point

4. If not for the concept of sex itself, practically no Fire Emblem character, nor Samus, nor Shulk, nor Snake, nor even the Belmonts would exist. It's natural, like food, water, and oxygen. Dunno why this hentai Boogieman prevents her from being a viable candidate. If anything, Arturia is incredibly modest by design standards. Personally, I favor Arcueid more, but Arturia's the most realizable choice given the Fate franchise's current success

5. Kids are more likely to run into R34 of her, and of other characters already in Smash, than the VN sex scenes themselves. In fact, you might even call Kinoko "The Nasu-talgic Critic", because he writes the porn so you don't have to!
*Gets booed loudly and pelted with tomatoes*

6. We're getting Joker, who comes from the same franchise that has penis demons (as in Mara is only one of many). Obviously, those won't crop up in Smash, but if Arturia's in, neither would any references to the "mana exchanges" (nor the worm stuff...)

7. Nintendo hired some hentai artists to design several of the Xenoblade 2 characters, and the game is doing just fine outside of SJWs and people with a hate-boner toward anything anime-esque. Smash also has some of those aesthetics in the game already, and a fair number of Spirits used were designed by hentai artists as well

I have a mission, friend, and that is to educate people. Also, yes, your two examples are valid reasons she would get any sort of hate. No surprises there!

 

[Nquoid]

"But it would ruin Smash to include a porn character!" Yeah and Bayonetta 2 was promoted by porn stars in cosplay, a marketing stunt thought of and paid by Nintendo

This is a terrible comparison.

 

[ze9]

Or perhaps Simon's; I hear he can use axes.

He can, but it's not really integral to his fighting style imho. At least in PoR you really have no reason to give him an axe. I think I never saw Ike with an axe in his hand.