Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SirCamp]

While you might not like it PP is one of the most recognizable mooks in gaming and Sakurai wanted an unconventional fighter. Rosalina and Luma have appeared in mainline Mario games with Rosa being playable in 3D World. So I would totally say that yes, she is more important than Waluigi who is only used in spinoffs. Falco is the rival of Fox and he was most likely added as he is physically more close to Fox than Peppy or Slippy.

Problem with how Zelda is managed is that you got the Hero, the Princess and the Great Evil that must be defeated which are in the game already. Impa and many recurring characters are not really that consistent appearance-wise, (Impa has been an old seer, an implied ninja, a buxom maid, small old grandma) and with Ganon we have the most intimidating version of him as a boss and Final Smash. Tingle would be the best option and he would also be a quite unconventional fighter, but with how people react to him its hard to imagine him due to how the fanbase gets.

My comment was mostly related to the most popular options as well like Midna, Skull Kid (who lets be honest, people want the Majora's Mask), Ghiraim and so on. Great characters, I would love a lot of them to be playable but kinda they possess the same issue as Sheik (appearing mainly in only one game) without the advantage of being tied to one of the main characters or another game. And how I see it, unless Zelda starts promoting more of the one-shots as regulars I can hardly see that a new character will come in currently.

I'm pretty sure the Mario series characters are pretty much regulars in the series compared to Zelda which has many popular one-shots or one-shot versions of popular characters. Don't get me wrong, I would like to see more added but at the same time I don't see them happening unless they start making more regular appearances apart from the spinoffs.

Honestly this just reeks of moving the goalposts to me. Also no where did I say I was unhappy with Piranha Plant? He may be important as a mook, but he is still a mook. He is not even named. So how does that compare to a story relevant character, even if that character is a one off? Whose to say one can happen but not the other? Point is, anything we think of as rules or guidelines for what is possible can be thrown out at a moments notice.

Honestly, bottom line is I don’t think any of your reasons for why another Zelda character couldn’t happen are compelling. I certainly don’t know what will happen either, it just seems silly to me to dismiss a character based on what appears to be very arbitrary criteria. It’s one thing to say you don’t like the idea, but to say it can’t happen is odd.

 

[cj.]

*I do want more fighting game characters in Smash. Not only do I find them to be very fun to play with, I feel like Smash is also the only chance that some of these franchises will be able to crossover between one and the other. Who wouldn't love a Street Fighter X Guilty Gear fight after?

A dreammatch beetween Ryu, Ken, Terry, Sol, Scorpion and Heihachi would be amazing!

 

[Deleted member]

Counterpoint: If Sakurai actually listened to the West's requests and put those five characters in, you wouldn't have to hear about them anymore

Counterpoint, Sakurai has done a pretty good job listening requests from pretty much everyone especially in Ultimate with giving the 3 most popular characters in the western fandom.

Honestly this just reeks of moving the goalposts to me. Also no where did I say I was unhappy with Piranha Plant? He may be important as a mook, but he is still a mook. He is not even named. So how does that compare to a story relevant character, even if that character is a one off? Whose to say one can happen but not the other? Point is, anything we think of as rules or guidelines for what is possible can be thrown out at a moments notice.

Honestly, bottom line is I don’t think any of your reasons for why another Zelda character couldn’t happen are compelling. I certainly don’t know what will happen either, it just seems silly to me to dismiss a character based on what appears to be very arbitrary criteria. It’s one thing to say you don’t like the idea, but to say it can’t happen is odd.

Whatever suits you really, I have explained differences between how franchises are handled if you think those are goalposts feel free to cover your ears. Given that we have no new Zelda characters it just reeks of me that Sakurai does not want to add anything more than the Triforce trio as other characters might not be as important on the next game, I don't think they are impossible but they are highly unlikely.

 

[SvartWolf]

My unpopular opinion is that people get way too angry over who makes it in or not and who 'deserves' a Smash inclusion. The fan base needs to chill more often than not.

...

I'm really sad that this feels like it's legitimately an unpopular opinion now...

I have to admit that by having No cuts and having my 2 most desired characters ever in smash (ridley and simon) this DLC speculation period have been... weird, like even if the character don't appeal to my particular tastes and even if i still have a list of characters and series i would love seeing represented, i feel that i can't BUT enjoy this additions, even if they add characters that I don't care that much like Hero,

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

EDIT: Wow that's long. Lemme just...

Spoiler: Long post

Unpopular opinion, eh?
I feel Sakurai isn't brilliant at representing the Mario franchise. Yeah, he's thrown in a lot of stuff for it, but I'm not a fan of a lot of the choices he's made:

• Mario's moveset has surprisingly little emphasis on mobility considering his whole schtick is being the 'jump man'. He's more 'anti-jump man' since between cape and FLUDD he seems to be made with a defensive moveset in mind preventing others from jumping and recovering. I guess there's also that he always looks like he's about to murder someone which I've seen bothering a lot of people but personally don't mind it as much.

The issue is that Mario also has to be one of the easiest characters to wrap your head around and throwing in more gimmicks in would raise the skill floor. I do think they should do something about it but whatever they do has to either be benign or intuitive.

• Dr. Mario is the weirdest addition to date and really should have been an alt like Mario Maker Mario. Actually dislike his inclusion the most out of everyone to date.

Now that he is here I think he's fine, but his design isn't all that great since power doesn't generally compensate for being slow, and it has nothing to do with how Dr. Mario is played. In my opinion his gameplay should be faster paced with an emphasis on setups rather than just being Mario, but kind of but not really a heavy.

• Yoshi can't eat items. It's minor but when Kirby, Dedede and Wario all can, it's just weird that the one Mario character known for devoring enemies and items alike cannot do it.

I had never questioned this but now that you mention it...why can't he do that? He eats projectiles in the Yoshi games right?

• Bowser's beast roars are weird when he stands next to his normal speaking son, and I'm gutted his fire breath is short ranged when it's always been a projectile attack in game.

Bowser and the Kongs (and to a lesser extent King K. Rool), really need their cartoony voices back. I know they had their monster (and monkey) voices when they were implemented, but why do they still have them now that they don't in other media?

• Bowser Jr's alts are really cool and I really like the Koopa car...however I don't like Jr much as a character. Bowser Jr's fans meanwhile felt gut punched when Jr ended up barely using his debut weapon of choice...which is weird when Mario still uses FLUDD, a far less associated power up with him than the paintbrush with Jr.

I think having him not use the paint brush would be totally fine to most people if he wasn't awful to play as in both games. I can kind of tell what they were going for but it just isn't fun and needs a bit of a rework.

• Rosalina's abilities whilst based on Galaxy's game mechanics have her sending her beloved 'children' into battle for her and thus, much like Peach she feels out of character. I also don't think she's that vital a piece of the Mario series, but hey ho, neither are Daisy, Doc or Plant.

The idea is that the Lumas will do everything to protect her, and she will do everything to protect them. Sure you can send them to their doom but then you'll be put in a tough spot.

• Mushroomy Kingdom is a post nuclear mushroom kingdom and feels incredibly out of place to me. Like if you wanted a grittier location, why'd you choose to base it off the colourful world of Super Mario?

I think Sakurai stated in a column that Mushroomy Kingdom being a desert was a joke about how Mario games rarely took place there at the time or something.

• The Fire Flower item would be a lot more fun if it allowed you to shoot fireballs in a manner similar to the real Mario games.

Agreed.

There.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Alright, generic question time: who would you love to see as a WTF fighter, and not as a joke. Like one you want to see and would make no sense at all.

I TOLD you, Eggplant Wizard!

Wouldn't mind seeing Kunio-kun/my boi from River City Ransom make an appearance

Kunio makes ALL OF THE SENSE!!

Counterpoint: If Sakurai actually listened to the West's requests and put those five characters in, you wouldn't have to hear about them anymore

Those people would just pick 5 more picks to whine about.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Spoiler

Of all the things to quote, why that? Kirby is going a completely different direction than what Smash is suggesting, and it's my worst thematic problem with Smash in general.

What direction is Kirby going that isn't... uh, Kirby? Kirby games are all Kirby games and the only game to really do anything different was Robobot but I don't think your at all talking about that one specific game. Kirby has a very specific and defined thematic presence across all of its games and its what's in Smash from I can tell. Stages could be more diverse, sure but you can say that for just about any franchise in Smash.

Ultimate did a few good things, but that doesn't change how badly other things were treated.

I'm concerned are you talking about Smash as a whole or are you talking about Kirby itself? Because I can name about 10 different franchises that were treated worse than Kirby was this game.

And no, Sakurai is not free from criticism because he invented the series. If anything, that should be the incentive for the series to be more expanded, but Sakurai only made four games, regardless of the impact, and those are the only ones that get represented. At some point, that well will run dry, but it's also lacking a big chunk of Kirby games that should at least have nods but are getting small scraps as if they're side projects.

You mean that Kirby is getting the same treatment that oh, say Donkey Kong Country got for a really long time? How about the Metroid Prime series? The Mario RPGs? How about Wario Land? See what I'm getting at?

I don't even know if another character can entirely fix the problem, but it would be baby steps, at least. I would at least tolerate it over expanding the roster to far-reaching franchises and fixing none of the existing ones.

"Fixing" none of the existing ones? Kirby is one of the VERY few franchises that got a brand new boss character. Kirby got every single stage ever made in a Smash game back. Kirby has a metric **** ton of Spirits. Kirby was the lead character and the only survivor in World of Light. Meta Knight and King Dedede got brand new final Smashes.

Like, count your blessings. Final Fantasy has two music tracks, no remixes, no Spirits, and no assists. Zelda hasn't gotten a completely new character since Melee. Star Fox hasn't gotten a completely new character since 64 and lost one of Wii U's most impressive stages, Donkey Kong lost two of its stages and has never had any stage representation outside of a Jungle, F-Zero is still on a single representative despite plenty of good choices and being one of the OG 12, see what I'm getting at? I'm not trying to be subversive or whatever but I'm trying to bring you back down to earth because it seems to me that your just upset that YOUR favorite franchise didn't get as much as YOU wanted. Not because it didn't get anything, not because it's not well represented, but because you didn't get exactly what you wanted.

I mean dude, my favorite franchise got ****ing CUT ENTIRELY last time around but I didn't call Wii U a complete let down because of it. No I saw that that game made a lot of people; Rosalina fans, Little Mac fans, Shulk fans, super happy. And I enjoyed it alongside them. All I'm saying is that there are a lot of franchises that are not very well represented in Smash. Whether it be characters or stages, or Spirits, or Assists, or anything else but Kirby I can assure you is in AT LEAST the top 5 if not top 3.

Hot diddly damn that's a long ass post. My bad fam. I don't even blame you if you don't want to read all that.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

What direction is Kirby going that isn't... uh, Kirby? Kirby games are all Kirby games and the only game to really do anything different was Robobot but I don't think your at all talking about that one specific game. Kirby has a very specific and defined thematic presence across all of its games and its what's in Smash from I can tell. Stages could be more diverse, sure but you can say that for just about any franchise in Smash.

I'm concerned are you talking about Smash as a whole or are you talking about Kirby itself? Because I can name about 10 different franchises that were treated worse than Kirby was this game.

You mean that Kirby is getting the same treatment that oh, say Donkey Kong Country got for a really long time? How about the Metroid Prime series? The Mario RPGs? How about Wario Land? See what I'm getting at?

"Fixing" none of the existing ones? Kirby is one of the VERY few franchises that got a brand new boss character. Kirby got every single stage ever made in a Smash game back. Kirby has a metric **** ton of Spirits. Kirby was the lead character and the only survivor in World of Light. Meta Knight and King Dedede got brand new final Smashes.

Like, count your blessings. Final Fantasy has two music tracks, no remixes, no Spirits, and no assists. Zelda hasn't gotten a completely new character since Melee. Star Fox hasn't gotten a completely new character since 64 and lost one of Wii U's most impressive stages, Donkey Kong lost two of its stages and has never had any stage representation outside of a Jungle, F-Zero is still on a single representative despite plenty of good choices and being one of the OG 12, see what I'm getting at? I'm not trying to be subversive or whatever but I'm trying to bring you back down to earth because it seems to me that your just upset that YOUR favorite franchise didn't get as much as YOU wanted. Not because it didn't get anything, not because it's not well represented, but because you didn't get exactly what you wanted.

I mean dude, my favorite franchise got ****ing CUT ENTIRELY last time around but I didn't call Wii U a complete let down because of it. No I saw that that game made a lot of people; Rosalina fans, Little Mac fans, Shulk fans, super happy. And I enjoyed it alongside them. All I'm saying is that there are a lot of franchises that are not very well represented in Smash. Whether it be characters or stages, or Spirits, or Assists, or anything else but Kirby I can assure you is in AT LEAST the top 5 if not top 3.

I feel attacked. This is not about quantity, but quality. Kirby does have a lot, but it's mostly concentrated towards certain games. And this is not the first time this has happened. If this was something that stayed in the Brawl era, it would be fine, I never batted an eye at it back then. But ten years later, nothing has changed. I'm not counting my blessings when there's barely enough to go off of. I can respect the appreciation other people have, but do not try my patience by bashing my frustration!

 

[RoboFist]

Okay, here's my biggest gripe/unpopular opinion with Smash Ultimate:

Why have we never had a brown-and-red original NES Super Mario Bros. alt color for Mario? What's this green/brown, pink/baby blue nonsense? Yeah, I know, we all miss Fire Mario, but this is the OG Super Mario Bros. outfit that everyone knows and loves and we've never once seen it in Smash?? Why????



Oh, yeah, and Young Link not representing Majora's Mask is huge wasted potential, Dr. Mario should've just been an alt costume for regular Mario, yadda yadda yadda, Smash Ultimate is still giving us more than any other Smash game/fighting game/Nintendo game ever and complaining about it just because we're bored is ridiculous and doesn't contribute to anything positive. But this omission is the biggest sin of them all!

 

[LibraPsoul]

Different question: what is the most unpopular opinion you have about characters (who should be added, who should be cut, who is b******t, etc.)?

I think that we shouldn't get any more fighting game characters. And, any character we get should have their classic/most used design (like if Raiden from MGS was in, have him be a Snake echo so he can keep the classic look.).

My opinions
1. Whether you like it or not, we probably get a gache game rep
(I don't know if it is Nintendo and BandaiNamco's good friend cygames's GBF and Dragalia Lost or the most successful H game Fate )
2.Already get the playable character in smash's series should not get a newcomer in the fighter pass (Maybe as a bonus fighter)
3.Seems that Sega will get another rep in the future DLC.
(Personally want it to be Arle or Sakura)
4.Level 5, Marvelous and Arc System Works should get a spot instead of Blizzard（I think about OW rep in smash is just Blizzard in order to attract NS players' hype.）
5.If you want Sora and Scorpion both in smash, sorry, seems that Warner and Disney disagree with your thoughts.
6.If we will get the second Microsoft rep, it will be Steve (although I hope it is Master Chief )
7.A group of anime swordfighter is better than a group of reality gunfighter

 

[perfectchaos83]

If we're doing unpopular opinions.

1. I don't want more western reps nor do I think any are likely

2. I think Reimu is the most likely indie

3. I think AT promotions are well within the realm of possibility

 

[Flyboy]

I feel attacked. This is not about quantity, but quality. Kirby does have a lot, but it's mostly concentrated towards certain games. And this is not the first time this has happened. If this was something that stayed in the Brawl era, it would be fine, I never batted an eye at it back then. But ten years later, nothing has changed. I'm not counting my blessings when there's barely enough to go off of. I can respect the appreciation other people have, but do not try my patience by bashing my frustration!

Man all I wanted first-party-wise in this game was Elma from Xenoblade Chronicles X and I didn't even get a song while Xenoblade Chronicles 2, a game I can't stand, got Mii costumes, music, and might even have a chance as a character rep in the post-pass DLC. Meanwhile X has like...five spirits and you can't even fight them in WoL. I just don't understand how you can rate an entire game as absolutely massive as Ultimate a "failure" based on such specific criteria. Like at least CROWNED is in so you got more music than I did.

It's just bizarre to me, dude. It's a huge game that is lightning in a bottle. It's never gonna be perfect and I get wanting Robobot stuff for example - I LOVE Robobot, probably my favorite Kirby game ever - but dang. Kirby even got a new boss fight and stuff.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Meta Knight and King Dedede got brand new final Smashes.

Not a counter point but Galaxia Darkness was way better than Ragnaro-I mean Secret Ninj-I mean Blut Vullm-I mean...What was it called again?

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Different question: what is the most unpopular opinion you have about characters (who should be added, who should be cut, who is b******t, etc.)?

Unpopular opinions? Oh boy, this has a wonderful track record on this site even if I've never had problems with it personally. That said, here are a few of mine:

1. The amount of time you've been supporting a character is irrelevant. You are not owed anything and you are not magically in line to be the next character just because you've supported a character for 10 years and someone brand new to speculation supported, let's say, Steve. Characters get in for entirely different reasons and there isn't some hierarchy of fan demands that should inherently be followed when adding characters. I'm really ****ing happy to see Ultimate include so many fan requests, don't get me wrong, all of the characters I heavily wanted have come from fan demand more or less, but I've grown absolutely tired of the notion, "We've been waiting X years for this character, it's finally our turn." Again, it's awesome that people love characters so much they'll support them across an entire decade, but it's rather hard to quantify that into any meaningful that Nintendo will be able to acknowledge or consider when choosing fighters and a great deal of that support has been people in echo chambers discussing the character. Nothing inherently wrong with enjoying those discussions or not doing more (Not everyone can devote serious outside effort to character support after all), but the ideas behind "seniority" leading to the ideas of "more deserving" character picks is one of my biggest gripes with the Smash community.

2. Smash could do with more modern crossover related content. Tracer and Steve are two big picks I see get loads of hate from all around the community for such a wide variety of reasons despite the fact that one is from the biggest video game ever and the other is the rare appearance of a brand new mascot in the world of 20th century gaming. Neither of these games are dead/dying like people would like to believe either. Speaking of more modern characters, Travis Touchdown is a wild card pick that has a much better chance of being DLC than I think many people even realize.

3. Cut talk is beyond stupid, especially given the fact we haven't even gotten through a full year of Ultimate being out. I get it can be a fun thought experiment of speculation, but I think it speaks volumes about some people that we get something as absurd and incredible as "Everyone is Here!" and the first thing people want to do is talk about who shouldn't be here. I feel like there is a lot of hate and the past that needs to be let go of in such situations.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

Here's some unpopular opinions
1. I want more sword characters i don't really care what the general consensus is there cool I want more 50-50 chance that if it was or wasn't sword character you'd complain because you wouldn't know who they are
2. I don't want many cartoony platformer characters there aren't many left who I think would be interesting but my mind can change on that and i just see Banjo being the only one we really needed.

 

[Door Key Pig]

2. Smash could do with more modern crossover related content. Tracer and Steve are two big picks I see get loads of hate from all around the community for such a wide variety of reasons despite the fact that one is from the biggest video game ever and the other is the rare appearance of a brand new mascot in the world of 20th century gaming. Neither of these games are dead/dying like people would like to believe either. Speaking of more modern characters, Travis Touchdown is a wild card pick that has a much better chance of being DLC than I think many people even realize.

tbf, Suda51 straight up said Travis wasn't in "but they'll get him in next time". Whether he was lying or if that can/has changed with additional DLC beyond the pass remains to be seen.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

1. I don't want more western reps nor do I think any are likely

What qualifies as a western rep? Like, the ones people from the West have wanted? Characters that originated outside of Japan? Or the single Banjo & Kazooie we have that came from a Western company (that originated under a Japanese one)? Western reps seems a little bit nebulous without some further clarification.


Unrelated to your post, but on the Kirby issue. It's just a reality of Smash that not all parts of a series will be represented, and not all series will be represented ideally. I mean, the top three series in terms of "representation" are Mario, Pokemon, and Fire Emblem. Mario still doesn't have Toad or Waluigi, with further people pushing for Mario RPG reps in Geno and Paper Mario. Pokemon has half of its characters from Gen 1 and only has one non-gen 1, non-starter in the game. Fire Emblem doesn't have anything of the weapon triangle besides swords and is missing lots of really cool elements. Hell, despite Metroid and Donkey Kong finally got more characters, they still seriously lost in the stage department because of various circumstances related to their stages. That's why the whole, "we need to this to represent X part of a series" just never really holds up super well with me. There's minor issues everywhere with the "representation of series," but it's incredible there is this much to begin with. Future additions just need to be strongly supported as character picks, nothing more, nothing less. A strong character support presence is the sort of thing that will catch Nintendo's attention, especially if it's probably organized and visible without bad actors dragging support through the mud.

For what it's worth, as much as Kirby gets pushed by Nintendo and the reasonable demand so far in this era of Smash, I would expect Bandanna Dee to be one of the few first party characters that could make it into future DLC even if Nintendo remains third party focused.

 

[perfectchaos83]

What qualifies as a western rep? Like, the ones people from the West have wanted? Characters that originated outside of Japan? Or the single Banjo & Kazooie we have that came from a Western company (that originated under a Japanese one)? Western reps seems a little bit nebulous without some further clarification.

Characters from owned b y western companies.

 

[KatKit]

Unpopular opinions, eh? Hot take: there was a topic dedicated to this very subject that got closed for some reason, so why are we continuing it here? Most of this has been repeated and some of it isn't even remotely unpopular. Y'all just want to vent. This is lowkey off topic and generally has little to do with newcomer speculation.

Carry on.

 

[ProfPeanut]

Unpopular opinions:

1. People who don't understand how hard it is to make a complete playable character should be barred from serious character speculation. I don't mind handing 10,000 upvotes to an Unnamed Goose moveset, but I will not stand for posts that think Waluigi or Bandana Dee are just a light-switch away from inclusion.

2. Speaking of whom, Waluigi has done absolutely nothing worth recognizing between first appearing as a Mario tennis filler character and the present day. He will be meme AT material forever, or until the day he ever gets his own game.

3. There is no one on the entire planet better suited for Smash than Sakurai. No one else gives as much attention to all included franchises as he does. The only way someone succeeds him is if either he raises a successor, or Smash ends up seriously neglecting some of its included franchises.

4. Trophies were unsustainable given the rising standards for 3D modeling. Melee only got away with it because of how cheap it was, and because it was mostly adapting 2D assets into 3D for the first time in their lives. Anyone who thinks it's easy voids their right to the argument.

5. Steve has a solid shot of getting in, no matter what anyone else thinks of the current generation of gamers.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Unpopular Opinions:

Pokemon Trainer never should have come back. Getting rid of transformations was one of the best things Smash 4 did, and he shouldn't have brought them back. If they felt like they HAD to come back because they just HAD to have "EVERYONE IS HERE" then they should have made each Pokemon a separate character. He and Pichu also screwed up Smash 4's perfect non-overlapping Pokemon typing.

Dr. Mario, Pichu and Young Link shoulda been Echos at most, Alt costumes at least.

2. I don't want many cartoony platformer characters there aren't many left who I think would be interesting but my mind can change on that and i just see Banjo being the only one we really needed.

The ones that are ACTUALLY interesting like Ratchet or Sly Cooper are owned by Sony unfortunately.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Unpopular opinions, eh? Hot take: there was a topic dedicated to this very subject that got closed for some reason, so why are we continuing it here? Most of this has been repeated and some of it isn't even remotely unpopular. Y'all just want to vent. This is lowkey off topic and generally has little to do with newcomer speculation.

Carry on.

I mean, that thread got closed down because people were being absolute assholes and refused to drop disagreements. There was also the "rule" of no criticizing other people's opinions that ended up being a grey area that got kind of abused as well. It was more the specific circumstances of that thread that never improved that pushed that to happen.

I'd argue there's still kind of need for such an outlet (I had originally planned to work on a suggestion to the staff about how to do a new thread, but I got busy and it kind of got left behind) as people are always looking at how the community/fans operate and would like to make their own commentaries that they feel are treated like a minority opinion. It's a good way to find out if your own thoughts are actually echoed by others and can lead to some really great conversations. I don't think it's a huge issue personally if we give it perhaps another trial since it has been a little while. The newcomer speculation thread is all over the place anyway on any average day and if it becomes a problem, moderators will definitely step in and that'll be that.

 

[Deleted member]

Unpopular opinions:

1. People who don't understand how hard it is to make a complete playable character should be barred from serious character speculation. I don't mind handing 10,000 upvotes to an Unnamed Goose moveset, but I will not stand for posts that think Waluigi or Bandana Dee are just a light-switch away from inclusion.

2. Speaking of whom, Waluigi has done absolutely nothing worth recognizing between first appearing as a Mario tennis filler character and the present day. He will be meme AT material forever, or until the day he ever gets his own game.

3. There is no one on the entire planet better suited for Smash than Sakurai. No one else gives as much attention to all included franchises as he does. The only way someone succeeds him is if either he raises a successor, or Smash ends up seriously neglecting some of its included franchises.

4. Trophies were unsustainable given the rising standards for 3D modeling. Melee only got away with it because of how cheap it was, and because it was mostly adapting 2D assets into 3D for the first time in their lives. Anyone who thinks it's easy voids their right to the argument.

5. Steve has a solid shot of getting in, no matter what anyone else thinks of the current generation of gamers.

I agree that trophies are probably probably unsustainable and not worth making anymore but I would've seriously loved for them to at least give spirits descriptions of who they are like Trophies as that's my favorite part about trophies.

Also yeah totally agree about Steve having a legitimate chance once again and I would honestly not be opposed to seeing him in now that we have Banjo-Kazooie as Minecraft is officially the best selling game in the world and that's worth something at least let alone Minecraft being one of the most influential games as well.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

3. Cut talk is beyond stupid, especially given the fact we haven't even gotten through a full year of Ultimate being out. I get it can be a fun thought experiment of speculation, but I think it speaks volumes about some people that we get something as absurd and incredible as "Everyone is Here!" and the first thing people want to do is talk about who shouldn't be here. I feel like there is a lot of hate and the past that needs to be let go of in such situations.

I haven't that much cut talk (though said topic is off topic here so that's probably not a good indicator lol) but when I do it seems more like who would they keep. Would the roster be massacred? If so who's the most necessary?

My unpopular opinion: No one deserves to be cut even if their addition is kinda dumb and unnecesary (like Dr. Mario). Perfect world: Everyone is here is an attainable standard that every game will adhere to from this point forward.

 

[krokotopia101]

Unpopular opinion... but when it comes to characters, there's no middle ground at all. On one hand, people complain that there're too many characters in franchises they don't know or care about coming in wasting space, YET ON ANOTHER HAND, people complain that so-and-so series has too many characters wasting space bloating for a franchise that doesn't deserve recognition...yada, yada, yada. The next Fire Emblem, yada, yada, yada, There's literally no middle ground.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I haven't that much cut talk (though said topic is off topic here so that's probably not a good indicator lol) but when I do it seems more like who would they keep. Would the roster be massacred? If so who's the most necessary?

My unpopular opinion: No one deserves to be cut even if their addition is kinda dumb and unnecesary (like Dr. Mario). Perfect world: Everyone is here is an attainable standard that every game will adhere to from this point forward.

There were a decent number of threads that popped up fairly soon after Everyone is Here! was announced in the general forums. I just think cut talk doesn't work super well because it's even harder to figure out how Sakurai would prioritize actually cutting a significant part of the roster as opposed to the more situational stuff that has led to previous cuts. We only have two games to pull from, and Brawl was largely intended to retain Melee's roster sans Pichu, and Smash 4 had technical issues, rights issues (presumably that was the issue with Snake), and dropped the low priority semi-clones (and immediately returned part of them via DLC).

Also, you mentioning Dr. Mario for some reason reminds me how damn much I want a cool Dr. Mario stage in Smash. ROB always gets highlighted as the one without a stage, but Dr. Mario needs his too!

 

[ProfPeanut]

I agree that trophies are probably probably unsustainable and not worth making anymore but I would've seriously loved for them to at least give spirits descriptions of who they are like Trophies as that's my favorite part about trophies.

Descriptions would've definitely been a good plus to tide people over Spirits. I understand that it's really difficult to do, though, especially given the sheer number of spirits that Ultimate has, but it's not unreasonable to wish for.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Imagine writing long walls of text for Smash speculation.

I certainly wouldn't do anything like that. No sir.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Also, you mentioning Dr. Mario for some reason reminds me how damn much I want a cool Dr. Mario stage in Smash. ROB always gets highlighted as the one without a stage, but Dr. Mario needs his too!

A Dr. Mario stage would be cool, though he does at least have a stage from his series whereas R.O.B. doesn't even have that going for him.

 

[Perkilator]

Unpopular Opinions:

Pokemon Trainer never should have come back. Getting rid of transformations was one of the best things Smash 4 did, and he shouldn't have brought them back. If they felt like they HAD to come back because they just HAD to have "EVERYONE IS HERE" then they should have made each Pokemon a separate character.

So I'm the only one who liked Pokémon Trainer, huh? Hmmm... maybe we can sorta make the switching mechanic +?

 

[EricTheGamerman]

A Dr. Mario stage would be cool, though he does at least have a stage from his series whereas R.O.B. doesn't even have that going for him.

I guess, but that's not really his series per se. I feel like Living Room is a closer representation to ROB's "real" stage than Dr. Mario is to any of the existing Mario stages haha.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Unpopular opinion: Unpopular opinions are making this thread way more interesting than usual.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

Popular Opinion: its popular to have an Unpopular Opinion

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I feel attacked. This is not about quantity, but quality. Kirby does have a lot, but it's mostly concentrated towards certain games. And this is not the first time this has happened. If this was something that stayed in the Brawl era, it would be fine, I never batted an eye at it back then. But ten years later, nothing has changed. I'm not counting my blessings when there's barely enough to go off of. I can respect the appreciation other people have, but do not try my patience by bashing my frustration!

Don't feel attacked. Bashing your frustration or undermining your intentions for betterment of the game was absolutely not my intention.

All I'm trying to do is open a window to how others might feel about their characters in this game for you to look through. There are characters and franchises who really really REALLY got the shaft in comparison to Kirby.

 

[SvartWolf]

So I'm the only one who liked Pokémon Trainer, huh? Hmmm... maybe we can sorta make the switching mechanic +?

Uh? i actually like transformation characters... but zelda had always teh problem that zelda was bottom tier, shiek top tier and teh transformation left you super vulnerable.

I think that pokemon trainer in this game is extremely well done, and a great proof of that is that it's mains constantly are switching pokemons even if is not technically required. Also whoever had tried competitive pokemon, at least in the singles format, smart switching is by far the most important mechanic to master and how good a team was was usually measured on how switching could patch your team weaknesses...

Also conceptually i love the idea of 3 specialised but a little mediocre characters that thanks to teamwork and patching each other weakness they can shine and outperform. and teh mechanich of altering teh flow of a match...(kinda like playing Gen in SF)

 

[rychu_supadude]

So I'm the only one who liked Pokémon Trainer, huh? Hmmm... maybe we can sorta make the switching mechanic +?

Nah you're definitely not the only one. You're always going to upset some people either way you go, and the philosophy of Smash is to favour the status quo first with some minor tweaks.

Having a 3-in-1 gimmick is nice, they're well-implemented and wouldn't be in the game otherwise.

 

[KatKit]

Yikes, I just thought about Sin and Punishment. Series like that makes me wish Nintendo messed around with their lesser known stuff more. Star Destroyer was so fun; there was a time I thought Saki was a shoo-in. He's not even an assist anymore. I think the same thing can be said about Andy and Sami.

Profound sadness. D:

 

[osby]

Unpopular opinion... but when it comes to characters, there's no middle ground at all. On one hand, people complain that there're too many characters in franchises they don't know or care about coming in wasting space, YET ON ANOTHER HAND, people complain that so-and-so series has too many characters wasting space bloating for a franchise that doesn't deserve recognition...yada, yada, yada. The next Fire Emblem, yada, yada, yada, There's literally no middle ground.

But there is: Cut every character I dislike and add all of my faves.

See? The game suddenly has a much more objectively balanced representation now.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Yikes, I just thought about Sin and Punishment. Series like that makes me wish Nintendo messed around with their lesser known stuff more. Star Destroyer was so fun; there was a time I thought Saki was a shoo-in. He's not even an assist anymore. I think the same thing can be said about Andy and Sami.

Profound sadness. D:

Saki missing the boat hurts my soul everytime I think about it...

 

[GoodGrief741]

Unpopular opinions:
the Smash fanbase will justify any of Sakurai's decisions, no matter how dumb or how they might have felt before they knew about it

If Sakurai wanted to make the ultimate gaming crossover he's doing a terrible job at it

Ultimate relies too much on past content for it to have its own identity beyond character reveals and WoL

Probably popular opinion: as far as I've seen everyone's been very civil about this very inflammatory topic and I'd like to par everyone on the back for that.