Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Sysreq]

Alright, generic question time: who would you love to see as a WTF fighter, and not as a joke. Like one you want to see and would make no sense at all.

Mine would be Cooking Mama. That would give us a Taito rep, and Taito is another classic game company who deserves to be in Smash.

I could go for Cooking Mama. "Wandafuhl! Bettah zen Mama!"

 

[Flyboy]

Alright, generic question time: who would you love to see as a WTF fighter, and not as a joke. Like one you want to see and would make no sense at all.

Mine would be Cooking Mama. That would give us a Taito rep, and Taito is another classic game company who deserves to be in Smash.

I don't really consider even my weirder picks like Ryota/Akari Hayami or Style Savvy to be WTF Picks, but I suppose they're out of the ordinary.

 

[Us3inMN]

Different question: what is the most unpopular opinion you have about characters (who should be added, who should be cut, who is b******t, etc.)?

I think that we shouldn't get any more fighting game characters. And, any character we get should have their classic/most used design (like if Raiden from MGS was in, have him be a Snake echo so he can keep the classic look.).

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I think that we shouldn't get any more fighting game characters. And, any character we get should have their classic/most used design (like if Raiden from MGS was in, have him be a Snake echo so he can keep the classic look.).

Well, in the case of Raiden his MGS2 is his classic one but his Cyborg design from 4 and Rising is his most used and most advertised. So...

His Metal Gear Rising Cyborg design is LEAGUES better than both of his previous designs though. I also feel like Big Boss is a way better echo idea considering how unique Raiden could be.

For unpopular opinions? I'm still annoyed that Young Link doesn't use the Fierce Deity as his Final Smash. What a dumb ass missed opportunity that was.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

I'd say less anime-esque fantasy characters, though it's only considered an unpopular opinion around here.

2B shouldn't be in the game until she has some kind of Nintendo representation.

Heihachi's electric attacks would be very cool but aside from him I agree that traditional fighters are well represented and that we don't need more than about one more.

A Resident Evil character would be pretty boring though feel free to correct me on this one since my knowledge of the series isn't too big.

Zelda's Brawl/Smash 4 design is more interesting than the one we have now.

 

[Deleted member]

Unpopular opinion? I would love more fighting game characters since the genre is more than Street Fighter and Fatal Fury/King of Fighters. There are a lot of ground to cover like 3d fighters.

Real talk. Only think you could do with the Zelda representation is pretty much diversify the Links as otherwise pretty much every other character is difficult to choose one over the other.

I don't really oppose any character but I would like that any of the Doomabusa duo would come later rather than sooner, as it would be interesting to see how the speculation changes.

 

[RoboFist]

Alright, generic question time: who would you love to see as a WTF fighter, and not as a joke. Like one you want to see and would make no sense at all.

Mine would be Cooking Mama. That would give us a Taito rep, and Taito is another classic game company who deserves to be in Smash.

Bring my boy Rocket back from the dead and give him the glory days he never got to have.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Alright, generic question time: who would you love to see as a WTF fighter, and not as a joke. Like one you want to see and would make no sense at all.

Mine would be Cooking Mama. That would give us a Taito rep, and Taito is another classic game company who deserves to be in Smash.

mainly for that theme song that still goes hard today I will admit

 

[Deleted member]

Unpopular opinions?
Well...
1. focus more on 3rd parties than 1st parties
2. Kirby and Mother do not need more characters
3. Dante is the best Capcom character with the best moveset potential, RE is boring, MH already has content and Phoenix Wright isn't as big.
4. Spirits, assists and Mii costumes should NOT be promoted to playable in Ultimate
5. Characters should be from franchises that have been out for a while instead of recent games Ex. no OW, Undertale, etc.
6. Geno is a terrible character to make playable.
7. The dlc characters I liked the most weren't the community's favorites: ex. Hero and Terry.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

Different question: what is the most unpopular opinion you have about characters (who should be added, who should be cut, who is b******t, etc.)?.

I don't think this is necessarily unpopular, but since it seems to be here: we've gone past the point of tolerable amounts of guest characters. Banjo should have been the stopping point here, but honestly, maybe we should have stopped at Pac-Man.
Also, the missing spirits theory should not have dwindled. I know why it did, but none of those characters are in Ultimate yet and it's still a problem.

Spoiler: Hot Opinion

If Kirby does not get another rep in the end, Ultimate will have completely failed me. I don't care if Smash focuses on "new worlds" or picks someone I don't like from that series, Sakurai is not justified to limit Kirby to such outdated callbacks. Just one character, that's all I ask.

 

[SirCamp]

Unpopular opinion? I would love more fighting game characters since the genre is more than Street Fighter and Fatal Fury/King of Fighters. There are a lot of ground to cover like 3d fighters.

Real talk. Only think you could do with the Zelda representation is pretty much diversify the Links as otherwise pretty much every other character is difficult to choose one over the other.

I don't really oppose any character but I would like that any of the Doomabusa duo would come later rather than sooner, as it would be interesting to see how the speculation changes.

Nah you absolutely could.

First if it really was a requirement that a character chosen to be playable had to be markedly more important than other potential options in order to be a viable option, then there are still options. Impa, Ganon, and to the dismay of many Tingle all fit the bill here.

However, that isn't a requirement. Have we forgotten about Piranha plant? Are we really going to say that Rosalina and Luma are more important than Waluigi? Was Falco any more important than Slippy or Peppy when he was added?

We don't know how exactly characters are decided on, but I'm comfortable saying that there is more than one criterion at play, so even if relative character importance is a factor like you say, it still isn't that simple.

 

[N3ON]

Real talk. Only think you could do with the Zelda representation is pretty much diversify the Links as otherwise pretty much every other character is difficult to choose one over the other.

Having many options is a strange reason for not choosing any of them.

And it's not like it stopped the Mario series. After the main four, there were many paths we could've gone down.

 

[Us3inMN]

Unpopular opinions?
Well...
1. focus more on 3rd parties than 1st parties
2. Kirby and Mother do not need more characters
5. Characters should be from franchises that have been out for a while instead of recent games Ex. no OW, Undertale, etc.

Mostly agree, I would just like a healthy mix of new and old 3rd Party IPs.
I think we should get another Kirby rep, just because it's been a while and Kirby is still getting new games.
(I know, I took out 3 other points from your post but that's because I have no real comment on them).

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Spoiler: Hot Opinion

If Kirby does not get another rep in the end, Ultimate will have completely failed me. I don't care if Smash focuses on "new worlds" or picks someone I don't like from that series, Sakurai is not justified to limit Kirby to such outdated callbacks. Just one character, that's all I ask.

You do realize how childish this sounds right? Listen I like Bandana Dee, and I'm fine with you not liking the game because your character didn't get in or whatever. Salt comes in spades within this fanbase so I'm not surprised you said that and that's your opinion. But Sakurai created Kirby and Smash. Those are HIS babies, they're HIS creation, and he uses HIS designs in HIS games, he's justified to do whatever he damn well pleases with the Kirby series because without him Kirby wouldn't be here in the first place.

Edit: also "just one character, that's all I ask"? Yeah, try talking to Geno, Isaac, F-Zero, and Yoshi fans.

 

[Deleted member]

Different question: what is the most unpopular opinion you have about characters (who should be added, who should be cut, who is b******t, etc.)?

I can live without any first party DLC characters since I was never all that invested in them. 1 of the main reasons why I even started getting big into DLC speculation was because of the 3rd parties that might come to Smash. Ironically enough, the only exception for a First Party pick I want to see in Smash happens to be another Fire Emblem swordie.

 

[RoboFist]

Are we really going to say that Rosalina and Luma are more important than Waluigi?

A resounding yes.

 

[perfectchaos83]

So here's another video regarding character slots. Some of it is information Source Gaming gave us, but some of it is new, I believe.

The TL;DR is basically this:

- CSS Slots (29/30) were apparently removed altogether
- WoL Slots (originally 16) had 2 slots filled by Joker and PP, then two more added for Hero and Banjo. There are still 14 placeholder slots left (12 post pass)
- The "attack" strings in the code (also 16), apparently had 4 of these occupied by the DLC so far, leaving 12 remaining slots (10 post-pass)

My personal guess is that the "attack" strings are being filled in order because they correspond to the order the characters were implemented, but the WoL slots could be ordered differently due to other development reasons (remember, we got VR mode before HRC, even though HRC came first in the numbering order of Games & More modes). I think that depending on how things go, we might see two more slots being added to the "attack" strings in the future.

I'd rather not watch the video but please tell me he didn't use that as evidence for Doom being in Smash when the Super Metroid Box Art exists

 

[3BitSaurus]

I'd rather not watch the video but please tell me he didn't use that as evidence for Doom being in Smash when the Super Metroid Box Art exists

Uuuh... no he didn't? Someone else did and that's why the side-by-side "comparison" exists, but Papagenos explicitly says it's probably just a coincidence and nothing more. It's not even a main point of the video.

 

[Icedragonadam]

I'd rather not watch the video but please tell me he didn't use that as evidence for Doom being in Smash when the Super Metroid Box Art exists

Doom is Steve 2.0 with all this "evidence" and I guess I consider that an unpopular opinion.

As for other unpopular opinions.

1. I think Guilty Gear should be the next fighting game to be added to Smash.
2. Reimu has a very good chance of making it in.
3. I'd rather have King than Heihachi or Jin as the Tekken rep.

 

[Twin Shot]

I think Geno has a solid chance of making it after the pass, honestly. Sakurai wants him in, Fan Demand is there, and the Music was taken down online.

Banjo is essentially Geno a console gen later (fan demand, not really currently relevant, rights tied up w competitors)

 

[perfectchaos83]

Uuuh... no he didn't? Someone else did and that's why the side-by-side "comparison" exists, but Papagenos explicitly says it's probably just a coincidence and nothing more. It's not even a main point of the video.

Thanks for the explanation. Like I said, I'd rather not watch it at this time.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Different question: what is the most unpopular opinion you have about characters (who should be added, who should be cut, who is b******t, etc.)?

I think that we shouldn't get any more fighting game characters. And, any character we get should have their classic/most used design (like if Raiden from MGS was in, have him be a Snake echo so he can keep the classic look.).

You can search for my name in this thread: https://smashboards.com/threads/unpopular-smash-ultimate-opinions-read-the-op-before-posting.454402/

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

You do realize how childish this sounds right? Listen I like Bandana Dee, and I'm fine with you not liking the game because your character didn't get in or whatever. Salt comes in spades within this fanbase so I'm not surprised you said that and that's your opinion. But Sakurai created Kirby and Smash. Those are HIS babies, they're HIS creation, and he uses HIS designs in HIS games, he's justified to do whatever he damn well pleases with the Kirby series because without him Kirby wouldn't be here in the first place.

Edit: also "just one character, that's all I ask"? Yeah, try talking to Geno, Isaac, F-Zero, and Yoshi fans.

Of all the things to quote, why that? Kirby is going a completely different direction than what Smash is suggesting, and it's my worst thematic problem with Smash in general. Ultimate did a few good things, but that doesn't change how badly other things were treated.

And no, Sakurai is not free from criticism because he invented the series. If anything, that should be the incentive for the series to be more expanded, but Sakurai only made four games, regardless of the impact, and those are the only ones that get represented. At some point, that well will run dry, but it's also lacking a big chunk of Kirby games that should at least have nods but are getting small scraps as if they're side projects.

I don't even know if another character can entirely fix the problem, but it would be baby steps, at least. I would at least tolerate it over expanding the roster to far-reaching franchises and fixing none of the existing ones.

 

[SirCamp]

A resounding yes.

Really? Note that I don't say that because Waluigi is particularly important, but more because neither is. They're both glorified extras in the Mario universe.

 

[AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea]

Different question: what is the most unpopular opinion you have about characters (who should be added, who should be cut, who is b******t, etc.)?

Sakurai shouldn't listen to the West's requested characters

I'm honestly tired of seeing the same 5 characters over and over, especially with delusional fans who think they're super likely.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Different question: what is the most unpopular opinion you have about characters (who should be added, who should be cut, who is b******t, etc.)?

I think that we shouldn't get any more fighting game characters. And, any character we get should have their classic/most used design (like if Raiden from MGS was in, have him be a Snake echo so he can keep the classic look.).

Unpopular opinion, eh?
I feel Sakurai isn't brilliant at representing the Mario franchise. Yeah, he's thrown in a lot of stuff for it, but I'm not a fan of a lot of the choices he's made:

• Mario's moveset has surprisingly little emphasis on mobility considering his whole schtick is being the 'jump man'. He's more 'anti-jump man' since between cape and FLUDD he seems to be made with a defensive moveset in mind preventing others from jumping and recovering. I guess there's also that he always looks like he's about to murder someone which I've seen bothering a lot of people but personally don't mind it as much.
• Dr. Mario is the weirdest addition to date and really should have been an alt like Mario Maker Mario. Actually dislike his inclusion the most out of everyone to date.
• The sweet princess Peach is horrifically out of character forcing Toad to shield her in Melee, Brawl and For and is surprisingly aggressive compared to her canon personality. Worse, she doesn't even get to celebrate her own game with any cute references like having Perry as her parasol...it's like her starring role?
• Daisy doesn't really do anything Daisy like between using the Toads(not her citizens) to fight for her, eating flowers(???) in her final smash and having Peach's trademark float...she still feels like an alt despite her upgrade and it's just strange to me when she should have a few more gameplay tweaks at the very least. Definitely one of the more disappointing additions for me after being initially excited for her.
• Luigi's portrayal through Smash has been downright bizarre, although he's getting a lot better recently at feeling and acting more like Luigi thanks to the emphasis placed on his scaredy cat nature and Luigi's Mansion references. Between his plank taunt, his green missile and the Negative Zone of old, Luigi felt more like Waluigi than himself with these oddball abilities.
• Wario's portrayal has very much split Wario's fanbase as people can't decide whether he should be more Wario Land based or if current Wario even does a good job of feeling very Warioware outside his missing frame animation and the bike.
• Yoshi can't eat items. It's minor but when Kirby, Dedede and Wario all can, it's just weird that the one Mario character known for devoring enemies and items alike cannot do it.
• Bowser's beast roars are weird when he stands next to his normal speaking son, and I'm gutted his fire breath is short ranged when it's always been a projectile attack in game.
• Bowser Jr's alts are really cool and I really like the Koopa car...however I don't like Jr much as a character. Bowser Jr's fans meanwhile felt gut punched when Jr ended up barely using his debut weapon of choice...which is weird when Mario still uses FLUDD, a far less associated power up with him than the paintbrush with Jr.
• Rosalina's abilities whilst based on Galaxy's game mechanics have her sending her beloved 'children' into battle for her and thus, much like Peach she feels out of character. I also don't think she's that vital a piece of the Mario series, but hey ho, neither are Daisy, Doc or Plant.
• Where the hell is Bowser's Castle already? It's the most iconic Mario location outside Peach's castle and an obvious stage choice. Five games in and we still haven't got Bowser his own stage yet.
• Mushroomy Kingdom is a post nuclear mushroom kingdom and feels incredibly out of place to me. Like if you wanted a grittier location, why'd you choose to base it off the colourful world of Super Mario?
• Paper Mario's stage should really have had at least one theatre and audience part to it.
• Toad is an assist. Piranha Plant is a fighter. This is just personal, but if this was suggested at any other time prior to Ultimate's first DLC reveal, or for any other Mario related game people would think I'd typed that the wrong way round accidentally.
• The Fire Flower item would be a lot more fun if it allowed you to shoot fireballs in a manner similar to the real Mario games.
• Why in gods name did Sakurai think FIRE MARIO was the one palette swap from previous games he shouldn't bother keeping? Nearly any other of the regular colour swaps would have been more expendible.
• Peach not turning Pink Gold when picking up the Metal Box was a missed opportunity, as was Luigi not gaining a fox tail and ears instead of tanooki tail and ears when picking up the Super Leaf item.

So yeah, I love Smash and Super Mario, but there's a surprising amount of stuff that irks me a little about the way it's implemented.

 

[Nemuresu]

So we go with unpopular opinions now? Well, hope things don't go to hell like in the actual unpopular opinions thread:

*I do want more fighting game characters in Smash. Not only do I find them to be very fun to play with, I feel like Smash is also the only chance that some of these franchises will be able to crossover between one and the other. Who wouldn't love a Street Fighter X Guilty Gear fight after?

*Just because more characters were negotiated, doesn't mean that spirits or assists are any more likely now than they were last year. The only way to ever open the door for them will be by including them. Not more, not else.

*While this doesn't hold up anything for future inclusions, I do want to say that Sakurai is not being really loyal to the whole "I want characters to feel like their video game origins" stigma. He's always been taking liberties with characters, and if he really cared that much about accuracy, then he should've gotten rid of the Fludd as soon as 4 came out, given Ganondorf a more proper moveset, granted Kirby the ability to jump infinitely and given Pikachu anything other than f***ing Skull Bash (a move that is nigh-unobtainable even in Gen 2) as a side special. Hence why I'm glad that he gave in to the Ridley requests; shows you can sometimes pay the price and it won't ruin anything.

 

[PeridotGX]

Different question: what is the most unpopular opinion you have about characters (who should be added, who should be cut, who is b******t, etc.)?

For the most part, I'd rather have characters from the franchises already in the game than characters from new ones. I just generally know them better.

 

[Will]

unpopular opinion:

#5 is porky

 

[Zinith]

Yoshi can't eat items. It's minor but when Kirby, Dedede and Wario all can, it's just weird that the one Mario character known for devoring enemies and items alike cannot do it.

I don't buy any excuse for this. "Oh it's hard to program." Bull****!!! If it works with Wario it'll work with him. Sakurai can have blind spots, don't pretend he doesn't

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

Not sure how unpopular it is now, but Hero is honestly one of the best picks on the fighter pass, Banjo being the closest rival. (no disrespect to Joker or Terry)

I fricking love Pichu and I want him to be in every game

 

[Deleted member]

Nah you absolutely could.

First if it really was a requirement that a character chosen to be playable had to be markedly more important than other potential options in order to be a viable option, then there are still options. Impa, Ganon, and to the dismay of many Tingle all fit the bill here.

However, that isn't a requirement. Have we forgotten about Piranha plant? Are we really going to say that Rosalina and Luma are more important than Waluigi? Was Falco any more important than Slippy or Peppy when he was added?

We don't know how exactly characters are decided on, but I'm comfortable saying that there is more than one criterion at play, so even if relative character importance is a factor like you say, it still isn't that simple.

While you might not like it PP is one of the most recognizable mooks in gaming and Sakurai wanted an unconventional fighter. Rosalina and Luma have appeared in mainline Mario games with Rosa being playable in 3D World. So I would totally say that yes, she is more important than Waluigi who is only used in spinoffs. Falco is the rival of Fox and he was most likely added as he is physically more close to Fox than Peppy or Slippy.

Problem with how Zelda is managed is that you got the Hero, the Princess and the Great Evil that must be defeated which are in the game already. Impa and many recurring characters are not really that consistent appearance-wise, (Impa has been an old seer, an implied ninja, a buxom maid, small old grandma) and with Ganon we have the most intimidating version of him as a boss and Final Smash. Tingle would be the best option and he would also be a quite unconventional fighter, but with how people react to him its hard to imagine him due to how the fanbase gets.

My comment was mostly related to the most popular options as well like Midna, Skull Kid (who lets be honest, people want the Majora's Mask), Ghiraim and so on. Great characters, I would love a lot of them to be playable but kinda they possess the same issue as Sheik (appearing mainly in only one game) without the advantage of being tied to one of the main characters or another game. And how I see it, unless Zelda starts promoting more of the one-shots as regulars I can hardly see that a new character will come in currently.

Having many options is a strange reason for not choosing any of them.

And it's not like it stopped the Mario series. After the main four, there were many paths we could've gone down.

I'm pretty sure the Mario series characters are pretty much regulars in the series compared to Zelda which has many popular one-shots or one-shot versions of popular characters. Don't get me wrong, I would like to see more added but at the same time I don't see them happening unless they start making more regular appearances apart from the spinoffs.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Bring my boy Rocket back from the dead and give him the glory days he never got to have.

View attachment 240712

I was just thinking about this game the other day but I couldn’t remember it’s name!

Literally just a vague memory of a one wheeled robot in a circus like overworld popped into my head.

 

[SvartWolf]

quick speculation on an unrelated note... I think that the reason for Hero ban in nintendo france tournament was language barrier...

I also think that the ban have been lifted because they got word internally that Hero command screen is getting universal icons on a patch and those are likely to come out at least before teh tournament (worst case scenario is when terry goes live)

Do yo guys think this will be teh case?

 

[IAmGiles]

Sakurai shouldn't listen to the West's requested characters

I'm honestly tired of seeing the same 5 characters over and over, especially with delusional fans who think they're super likely.

Counterpoint: If Sakurai actually listened to the West's requests and put those five characters in, you wouldn't have to hear about them anymore

 

[cj.]

Unpopular opinion
Smash needs more fighting games reps

 

[Ovaltine]

My unpopular opinion is that people get way too angry over who makes it in or not and who 'deserves' a Smash inclusion. The fan base needs to chill more often than not.

...

I'm really sad that this feels like it's legitimately an unpopular opinion now...

 

[IAmGiles]

Unpopular Opinion:

Ken is just Terry with a Gi.

And Mario should just be an alt costume for Dr. Mario.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh yeah I forgot to add other unpopular opinions:
8. Pichu, young link, Dr. Mario had no reason to return to smash (and maybe roy but there's a better reason), they feel redundant when there's a better version of the same moveset. (Toon Link replaced young link for me and they could have done something better if they tried.)
9. Lack of alt costumes.
10. Roy should not have been added in melee.
11. Funny how everybody started hating Smash 4 after Bayonetta and Ultimate when the game itself was flawed from the start.
12. PM still has the best gameplay and movesets.

 

[Zinith]

Here's a visual representation of my unpopular opinion