Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[RoboFist]

As someone who has only played Castlevanias 1-4 and Dracula X, it makes me super happy to see a large chunk of this thread go to bat for the inclusions of the Belmonts as playable characters in the roster over Alucard (no disrespect at all to Alucard, of course). To me and a lot of other Nintendo fans (hell, even non-Nintendo fans) the Belmonts are Castlevania, and I really think that reducing one of gaming's most legendary families to an AT would've been straight up disrespectful.

I've been replaying Super Castlevania 4 a lot lately (finally decided to pick up the SNES Classic) and man I forgot how much fun it is. Simon was my most wanted character outside of Banjo, and between both of their inclusions, this roster just feels so damn perfect.

 

[KatKit]

David Wise, no doubt.

You wanted Crescent Island, too, eh?

 

[Dee Dude]

You wanted Crescent Island, too, eh?

Eh, more so Punch Bowl, Big Top Bop, or anything from Tropical Freeze really.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Sol has a DP too and same input. The cool thing you can do is after doing the move you can followup with a kick that sends them straight down. Also during Dragon Install (super move/form) the move changes.

Didn't see the "View all Moves" button. lol

 

[lady_sky skipper]

You are almost correct. It's not a permanent deconfirmation, excessively/incredible/extremely obscure characters, can be undeconfirmed if they become famous later. And well I've already aforementioned that 3rd party characters regardless of how iconic are allowed to be playable. Also, for an obscure 3rd party character to be deconfirmed, they need to be extremely obscure, not just mildly or moderately obscure. For example, Pulseman is relatively obscure, so he isn't deconfirmed.


But how do you like the rest of them? I think Crono (chrono trigger) replacing Isaac, Lilac (freedom planet) replacing Knuckles, Emerl replacing Bomberman, and especially Papyrus replacing Waluigi are perfect assist trophy replacements.

Here are some more ideas I thought of for assist trophy replacement mods.

Sally (sonic) over Dillon.

Beck (mighty no 9) over Shadow instead of Scourge. (Because Beck can use the double gear system in my fanon.)

Frisk over Prince of Sable.

Sans over Jeff.

Shoma (yugioh) over Rodin.

Do you have any more ideas for assist trophy skins/replacement mods?


These are for my mods, not official concepts. And I already know that 4th party characters, and minor characters (with piranha plant as an exception) are automatically deconfirmed.

I know the stuggles for licensing don't and can't just disappear when relegating Goku, Sally, Miku, and Yu-(insert suffix here) to assist trophies.

I'm fine with your Assist Trophies of video game characters such as Chrono or Lilac but I really don't like the ATs of non video game characters such as Sally or Shoma.

IMHO being extremely obscure still wouldn't deconfirm a 3rd party video game character and being in Smash can actually make an extremely obscure character more popular. Heck, Nana and Popo were extremely obscure themselves before they got into Super Smash Bros Melee and now they've become more popular because of it.

 

[Sysreq]

But that's really not the point of the series. There's not really a family thing pitting the Redfields against Umbrella, and it means ignoring like half of the series. Castlevania is the Belmonts against Dracula; that's their curse. With RE it's more survivors vs Umbrella - whether they're Redfields or not is incidental.

Looking at it from another angle: even the Castlevania games that don't feature Belmonts as protagonists have a Belmont or the clan as a big part, because it's that important to the lore. With RE, you have games in which Chris and Claire aren't involved at all. 0, 4 and 7 come to mind, plus many of the non-numbered titles.

It might not be the point of the series, but clearly the Redfields are important if they keep showing up in games. Not to mention there's a pretty apparent villain relationship between Chris and Wesker.

I don't hate Leon. I love RE4 and Leon himself. I just think he's in the same position as Alucard where RE4 is the most popular and well-known one and lots of people's first foray into RE was with RE4, especially among Nintendo fans. And I can guarantee if Alucard had made it in instead of Simon, people would be saying "Well, he is from the one that invented Igavania's and the one that's most well-known; it makes sense he's playable."

Similarly, I feel like if Chris or Jill DID get in, people would jump on the "Belmont ship" and say "makes sense, they are from the first game and represent the series." and if Leon got in, people would say "makes sense, he is from the most popular, successful, and well-known one." I honestly think these two situations are comparable and which is why it's a little weird that people defend Belmonts over Alucard and not Chris/Jill over Leon.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Similarly, I feel like if Chris or Jill DID get in, people would jump on the "Belmont ship" and say "makes sense, they are from the first game and represent the series." and if Leon got in, people would say "makes sense, he is from the most popular, successful, and well-known one."

And then we get thrown a curve-ball and the Resident Evil character is Wesker.

 

[KatKit]

Eh, more so Punch Bowl, Big Top Bop, or anything from Tropical Freeze really.

Oh, that works, too. Although apparently David Wise is already in Smash. Perhaps you just want more of him. Same.

 

[KillerCage]

It's gonna be Sol, he's the main character of Guilty Gear and there's a new game coming out next year that might be a Switch title. Then again most people who play Smash wouldn't be able to handle his inputs.

Honestly I think it is a toss up between Sol and Ragna if Arc System Works got a rep in Smash.
Blazblue was created to fill in for Guilty Gear while the latter was going through ownership shenanigans (please correct me if I'm wrong here.)
I can totally see more recognizing Ragna since he was the protagonist of their first Arc System Works game.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

I'm fine with your Assist Trophies of video game characters such as Chrono or Lilac but I really don't like the ATs of non video game characters such as Sally or Shoma.

Well keep in mind that these are just mods and not official. I still need to find a character to replace Zero's assist trophy.

IMHO being extremely obscure still wouldn't deconfirm a 3rd party video game character and being in Smash can actually make an extremely obscure character more popular. Heck, Nana and Popo were extremely obscure themselves before they got into Super Smash Bros Melee and now they've become more popular because of it.

The rule of not allowing extremely obscure characters be playable only applies to 3rd parties, not 1st parties.

 

[ErenJager]

I think these are the some possible top contenders for future DLC spots for playable characters..

Jill Valentine | Leon Kennedy (Resident Evil) (Capcom)
Morrigan (Dark Stalkers) (Capcom)
Lara Croft (Tomb Raider) (Square Enix)
Bill Rizer (Contra) (Konami)
Pyramid Head (Silent Hill) (Konami)
Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden) (Koei Tecmo)
Kasumi (Dead or Alive) (Koei Tecmo)
Nightmare (Soulcalibur) (Bandai Namco)
Mametchi (Tamagotchi) (Bandai Namco)
Agumon (Digimon) (Bandai Namco)

Subsequent Mii/ Spirits Content..

Space Invaders (Square Enix)
Crono (Chrono Trigger) (Square Enix)
Frogger (Konami)
Lloyd Irving (Tales of) (Bandai Namco)
Heihachi (Tekken) (Bandai Namco)
Klonoa (Bandai Namco)
Monster Rancher (Koei Tecmo)
Hyrule Warriors (Koei Tecmo)
Fire Emblem Warriors (Koei Tecmo)

Previously uninvolved companies that wouldn't surprise me with character additions, in the vein of SNK..

Billy & Jimmy Lee (Double Dragon) (Arc System Works)
Farmer (Harvest Moon) (Natsume)
Metabee (Medabots) (Natsume)
Travis Touchdown (No More Heroes) (Grasshopper Manufacture)
Professor Layton (Level 5)

Possible western characters additions...

Crash Bandicoot (Activision)
Doom Slayer | Guy | Marine | Whatever (Doom) (Bethesda)
Earthworm Jim (Double Helix - Amazon)
Conker (Conker's Bad Fur Day) (Microsoft)

I am of the opinion that Japanese companies are more likely to be included as additions as opposed to western, just from some of the sentiments established by Sakurai. Specifically in regards to Sakurai worrying about his instructions being followed for rearrangements of music when working with western devs (Grant Kirkhope). I'm not saying western characters are impossible by any stretch, just seems it'll inherently lean eastern for accessibility and easibility.

I don't think it's impossible for spirits or AT's to upgrade to playable. I do think it won't happen though. Reason being the emphasis on introducing new game worlds to Smash. The way I understand this, is a game world can be represented by a spirit, mii, music, etc it doesn't necessarily have to have a playable character to be represented. I feel like those game worlds already exist within Smash, so they wouldn't be a "new game world" to upgrade them. I think the trend of entirely new series not present in Smash will continue on as it has with the current Fighter's Pass. Due to this I don't think you will be seeing characters from Tekken, Katamari, Don Chan, Valkyrie etc. as they are represented (arguably poorly) in Namco Roulette. I think the Lloyd and Heihachi mii's are on the way much like the other missing mii's from Smash 4 are slowly trickling in. Which essentially leaves Tamagotchi, Digimon, and Klonoa for a Bamco character.

Don't take this as a fan theory, even though it kind of is... I don't think it's 100% but this is the feel/ vibe I get for the direction of new additional characters to the roster.

 

[DarthEnderX]

So, now that weve had 2 western composers do remixes for Smash, Kirkhope and Fox, which western composer would you like to see next?

2nding David Wise.

Give me Windmill Hills.

Not sure who owns them these days but Bimmy Billy and Jimmy from Double Dragon would be awesome reps for the world of side scrollers.

ArcSys, same as with Kunio.

They were both just in River City Girls.

Well keep in mind that these are just mods and not official. I still need to find a character to replace Zero's assist trophy.

Vile?

It's gonna be Sol, he's the main character of Guilty Gear and there's a new game coming out next year that might be a Switch title. Then again most people who play Smash wouldn't be able to handle his inputs.

Its going...to be...Kunio.

 

[ErenJager]

ArcSys, same as with Kunio.

They were both just in River City Girls.

Its going...to be...Kunio.

A character with beat em up mechanics could be pretty cool, as you fight and beat up your enemy items specific for your use spawn like baseball bats and trash cans, and chains.

 

[DarthEnderX]

A character with beat em up mechanics could be pretty cool, as you fight and beat up your enemy items specific for your use spawn like baseball bats and trash cans, and chains.

Or the most important River City weapon. Other people.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Vile?

I don't think Vile can replace Zero's assist trophy, I need a character who has similar proportions to Zero and wields a sword. I'm not going to do Kenshin, Ichigo or Nakoruru over Zero.

 

[lady_sky skipper]

I don't think Vile can replace Zero's assist trophy, I need a character who has similar proportions to Zero and wields a sword. I'm not going to do Kenshin, Ichigo or Nakoruru over Zero.

How about Haohmaru or Ukyo from Samurai Shodown?

 

[GoodGrief741]

It might not be the point of the series, but clearly the Redfields are important if they keep showing up in games. Not to mention there's a pretty apparent villain relationship between Chris and Wesker.

I don't hate Leon. I love RE4 and Leon himself. I just think he's in the same position as Alucard where RE4 is the most popular and well-known one and lots of people's first foray into RE was with RE4, especially among Nintendo fans. And I can guarantee if Alucard had made it in instead of Simon, people would be saying "Well, he is from the one that invented Igavania's and the one that's most well-known; it makes sense he's playable."

Similarly, I feel like if Chris or Jill DID get in, people would jump on the "Belmont ship" and say "makes sense, they are from the first game and represent the series." and if Leon got in, people would say "makes sense, he is from the most popular, successful, and well-known one." I honestly think these two situations are comparable and which is why it's a little weird that people defend Belmonts over Alucard and not Chris/Jill over Leon.

I agree that Leon and Jill make equal sense to include, but Alucard over Simon not so much. I just think - and I think many agree - that since they're equals, then Leon's popularity trumps Jill's. Alucard is more popular than Simon but they aren't in equal conditions to begin with so that popularity can only get him so far.

The problem with Chris is that he's very unpopular and widely considered boring. If they wanted to rep RE with one of the OGs, they would undoubtedly go for Jill.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I don't think Vile can replace Zero's assist trophy, I need a character who has similar proportions to Zero and wields a sword. I'm not going to do Kenshin, Ichigo or Nakoruru over Zero.

Ohh, this is a mod thing.

I dunno, Hayato Kanzaki is another Capcom protag with a laser sword.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

How about Haohmaru or Ukyo from Samurai Shodown?

I think if we get someone from Samurai Shodown it's going to be Nakoruru. She's SNK's second largest character, only behind Terry.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

I think if we get someone from Samurai Shodown it's going to be Nakoruru. She's SNK's second largest character, only behind Terry.

I would rather have Kyo as a 2nd king of fighters rep instead of Nakoruru.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I think if we get someone from Samurai Shodown it's going to be Nakoruru. She's SNK's second largest character, only behind Terry.

They're talking about reskinning Zero's AT(not sure WHY exactly we're doing that in this thread...). Nakoruru wouldn't fit that.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Ohh, this is a mod thing.

I dunno, Hayato Kanzaki is another Capcom protag with a laser sword.

Wait I could just make Travis (no more heroes) over Zero.

They're talking about reskinning Zero's AT(not sure WHY exactly we're doing that in this thread...). Nakoruru wouldn't fit that.

I think Travis (no more heroes) would be a better assist trophy replacement skin for Zero, so that Zero will never be an assist trophy again.

So far for my assist trophy replacement/skin mods:

Spoiler: assist trophy replacement skins

Papyrus over Waluigi

Beck (mighty no 9) over Shadow

Goku over Akira

Lilac (freedom planet) over Knuckles

Miku Hatsune over Lyndis

Frisk over Sable Prince

Sans over Jeff

Emerl over Bomberman

Travis (no more heroes) over Zero.

Spring Tron over Spring Man.

Crono (Chrono trigger) over Isaac

Sally (sonic) over Dillon

Shoma (yugioh) over Rodin

Joker/Ren over Takamaru

What are your opinions for my assist trophy replacement/skin mods? How would fans react to each of these mods?

 

[ErenJager]

I was hoping the Nakoruru meme posting would have died with Terry's confirmation.
Alas salvation evades me.

 

[MainJPW]

I was hoping the Nakoruru meme posting would have died with Terry's confirmation.
Alas salvation evades me.

What meme posting? Do you see any memes in here?

 

[ErenJager]

What meme posting? Do you see any memes in here?

Why yes, yes I do.


an element of a culture or system of behavior that may be considered to be passed from one individual to another by nongenetic means, especially imitation.

• a humorous image, video, piece of text, etc., that is copied (often with slight variations) and spread rapidly by Internet users.
  

 

[MainJPW]

Why yes, yes I do.


an element of a culture or system of behavior that may be considered to be passed from one individual to another by nongenetic means, especially imitation.

• a humorous image, video, piece of text, etc., that is copied (often with slight variations) and spread rapidly by Internet users.

I'll refer you to my previous post:

What meme posting? Do you see any memes in here?

 

[ErenJager]

I'll refer you to my previous post:

Essentially it became a meme that Ruru was somehow as iconic or on equal footing from meme posting her repeatedly online, however it simply isn't reality. This is proven by the non-existent discussion of the character until the SNK leak. Ruru is just as relevant or irrelevant as any of the other Fatal Furry fighters.
The character just gets propped up on internet meme text posting.

 

[7NATOR]

Eh i remember Nakoruru being discussed before the SNK Leak happened...though that happened cause another leak (Female Fighting game character leak) was in discussion

even then, there was barely talk of SNK before leak, so eh

I Will admit that I'm glad the SNK Rep was NOT Nakoruru. I don't know why, but i really was not looking forward to her, and despite me being more of a Iori/Kyo/Orochi type of guy, I'm glad Terry is in

 

[ErenJager]

Eh i remember Nakoruru being discussed before the SNK Leak happened...though that happened cause another leak (Female Fighting game character leak) was in discussion

even then, there was barely talk of SNK before leak, so eh

I Will admit that I'm glad the SNK Rep was NOT Nakoruru. I don't know why, but i really was not looking forward to her, and despite me being more of a Iori/Kyo/Orochi type of guy, I'm glad Terry is in

The female fighter was also a falsehood, and another relentlessly posted 'meme'.
It's all in part and partial.
I hate when Smash speculation is permeated by crap posting, memes, and other nonsense.
Then it just gets parroted by enough people, that the speculation zeitgeist is just in disarray.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

I have a question about the good old days. Were Bayonetta and Cloud chosen before the Smash 4 fighter ballot ended? I know the base game rosters for each game are always set in stone in pre-production.

 

[7NATOR]

I have a question about the good old days. Were Bayonetta and Cloud chosen before the Smash 4 fighter ballot ended? I know the base game rosters for each game are always set in stone in pre-production.

Most likely

I know 2 weeks after the ballot started, i believe an update came out, and in that update i believe there was some extra data for ZSS and Ike, who would be the base to model Bayonetta and Cloud after Respectfully

They probably were in negotiation before that point too, so yeah...

 

[perfectchaos83]

I have a question about the good old days. Were Bayonetta and Cloud chosen before the Smash 4 fighter ballot ended? I know the base game rosters for each game are always set in stone in pre-production.

Yes they were.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Most likely

I know 2 weeks after the ballot started, i believe an update came out, and in that update i believe there was some extra data for ZSS and Ike, who would be the base to model Bayonetta and Cloud after Respectfully

They probably were in negotiation before that point too, so yeah...

So was the ballot really for Smash Ultimate and not Smash 4 DLC?

Since Bayonetta was one of my unwanted playable characters back then, I was already out of luck before I knew it I guess. But I did want cloud.

 

[7NATOR]

So was the ballot really for Smash Ultimate and not Smash 4 DLC?

Since Bayonetta was one of my unwanted playable characters back then, I was already out of luck before I knew it I guess. But I did want cloud.

Most likely. Though I'm sure Cloud and Bayo especially did well on the ballot. My guess is that they knew Bayo was a popular request during the Smash 4 days before they even announced the ballot, and used the ballot to say that's why she got in. That's probably why they said she was the winner among "Realizable" Characters

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Most likely. Though I'm sure Cloud and Bayo especially did well on the ballot. My guess is that they knew Bayo was a popular request during the Smash 4 days before they even announced the ballot, and used the ballot to say that's why she got in. That's probably why they said she was the winner among "Realizable" Characters

So even if Bayonetta wasn't highly requested, would she still make it in?

 

[7NATOR]

So even if Bayonetta wasn't highly requested, would she still make it in?

Who knows. Bayo did get her nintendo exclusivity around that time, and Sakurai does like her games, so i don't know

but eh, that's another timeline's problem, we are in our timeline

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Waluigi, Isaac, Shadow, and Bomberman were are highly requested playable characters in the Smash ballot, so were they turned into assist trophies because they were rejected?

 

[Nquoid]

So far for my assist trophy replacement/skin mods:

Spoiler: assist trophy replacement skins

Papyrus over Waluigi

Beck (mighty no 9) over Shadow

Goku over Akira

Lilac (freedom planet) over Knuckles

Miku Hatsune over Lyndis

Frisk over Sable Prince

Sans over Jeff

Emerl over Bomberman

Travis (no more heroes) over Zero.

Spring Tron over Spring Man.

Crono (Chrono trigger) over Isaac

Sally (sonic) over Dillon

Shoma (yugioh) over Rodin

Joker/Ren over Takamaru

What are your opinions for my assist trophy replacement/skin mods? How would fans react to each of these mods?

If you're cutting them because you want all of those characters because you want them as playable then fine maybe? If you're cutting them because you prefer all your picks then you're cutting Nintendo content to put in stuff from Yu-Gi-Oh and Dragonball which definitely isn't going to go over well.

I also have to echo the question about why modding in characters over existing content is in the speculation thread?

Essentially it became a meme that Ruru was somehow as iconic or on equal footing from meme posting her repeatedly online, however it simply isn't reality. This is proven by the non-existent discussion of the character until the SNK leak. Ruru is just as relevant or irrelevant as any of the other Fatal Furry fighters.
The character just gets propped up on internet meme text posting.

I mean Nakoruru was the Samurai Shodown character that Sakurai put into Terry's trailer and only female characters over others such as Mai, so clearly the character has made more impact than just "meme posting". Plus a lot of the support just came from her on the surface having more interesting move set potential than Terry because SHE HAS A FREAKING BIRD FRIEND? So cool.

 

[ErenJager]

If you're cutting them because you want all of those characters because you want them as playable then fine maybe? If you're cutting them because you prefer all your picks then you're cutting Nintendo content to put in stuff from Yu-Gi-Oh and Dragonball which definitely isn't going to go over well.

I also have to echo the question about why modding in characters over existing content is in the speculation thread?



I mean Nakoruru was the Samurai Shodown character that Sakurai put into Terry's trailer and only female characters over others such as Mai, so clearly the character has made more impact than just "meme posting". Plus a lot of the support just came from her on the surface having more interesting move set potential than Terry because SHE HAS A FREAKING BIRD FRIEND? So cool.

I'd agree except that trailer had a multitude of characters from the series who also were featured in other games as a crossover character.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

If you're cutting them because you want all of those characters because you want them as playable then fine maybe? If you're cutting them because you prefer all your picks then you're cutting Nintendo content to put in stuff from Yu-Gi-Oh and Dragonball which definitely isn't going to go over well.

You are absolutely correct, I'm reskinning assist trophies so that I can make all my wanted characters who got turned into assist trophies promoted to playable via modding.

Also, I would cut them for both of the reasons you stated above.