Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[RileyXY1]

Considering that Scott Manville no longer voices Lloyd, this doesn't mean anything.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Your logic is "Kingdom Hearts has Disney Stuff therefore Sora is not a video game character."

Is Kingdom Hearts a video game? Yes it is. This isn't an adaptation of a franchise/universe that existed in other media, like the Dragon Ball games you mentioned.

I musta missed that Jump Force TV show...

I think you're focusing too much on the fact that it's called Kingdom Hearts instead of, say, Disney's Great House of Mouse Adventure. Yeah, KH isn't an adaptation of a thing called Kingdom Hearts in other media. It's an adaptation of a movie called Alice in Wonderland, and a movie called Hercules, and a movie called Tarzan, and a movie called Aladdin, and a movie called Nightmare Before Christmas, and more than a little theme park ride called the Magical Kingdom, and so on.

You're right, it's not an adaptation of a franchise that existed in other media. It's an adaptation of 30 franchises that existed in other media. You want to keep believing otherwise, fine, you do you. But you're fooling yourself.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

Gotta love it.....

 

[Aetheri]

I musta missed that Jump Force TV show...

I think you're focusing too much on the fact that it's called Kingdom Hearts instead of, say, Disney's Great House of Mouse Adventure. Yeah, KH isn't an adaptation of a thing called Kingdom Hearts in other media. It's an adaptation of a movie called Alice in Wonderland, and a movie called Hercules, and a movie called Tarzan, and a movie called Aladdin, and a movie called Nightmare Before Christmas, and more than a little theme park ride called the Magical Kingdom, and so on.

You're right, it's not an adaptation of a franchise that existed in other media. It's an adaptation of 30 franchises that existed in other media. You want to keep believing otherwise, fine, you do you. But you're fooling yourself.

Remind me of the tv show/movie that Sora, Aqua, Xehanort and all the other characters like that are adaptations of then.

 

[andree123]

Gotta love it..... View attachment 238971

So, what did Vergeben said in this thread?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Remind me of the tv show/movie that Sora, Aqua, Xehanort and all the other characters like that are adaptations of then.

They're not. But their game is. If you want to pretend that can't possibly matter, I can't stop you.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

So, what did Vergeben said in this thread?

that tread was destroyed probably because of it was toxic

 

[Izanagi97]

I wonder if one of the ways the DLC is expanding audiences is by giving each of the series/companies massive boosts from Smash publicity:

• Persona only started becoming more mainstream (I think) when Persona 5 came out
• Dragon Quest, while pretty huge, was mostly popular in Japan
• Banjo & Kazooie was pretty much dead in the water
• SNK in general likely wasn't in the best shape (I think)

It's also noted that each series/company generally appeals to different region (Persona is worldwide, DQ is Japan, B&K is USA and Europe, and SNK in general is South and Latin America) so adding them in Smash could expand the popularity to different regions (or even promote new games).

Then again, I'm probably looking into this too much

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I wonder if one of the ways the DLC is expanding audiences is by giving each of the series/companies massive boosts from Smash publicity:

• Persona only started becoming more mainstream (I think) when Persona 5 came out
• Dragon Quest, while pretty huge, was mostly popular in Japan
• Banjo & Kazooie was pretty much dead in the water
• SNK in general likely wasn't in the best shape (I think)

It's also noted that each series/company generally appeals to different region (Persona is worldwide, DQ is Japan, B&K is USA and Europe, and SNK in general is South and Latin America) so adding them in Smash could expand the popularity to different regions (or even promote new games).

Then again, I'm probably looking into this too much

SNK is also appealing to China, which over there they have connections to Tencent, who will help Nintendo launch the Switch there.

I do wonder if the Chinese official release of Smash Ultimate will have all the DLC characters so far (possibly including Terry and/or FP5) on base though, leaving only post pass DLC to require purchases.

i also wonder how they’ll handle the Chinese release of splatoon 2... they’re too late for Splatfests that’s for certain

 

[Aetheri]

They're not. But their game is. If you want to pretend that can't possibly matter, I can't stop you.

Never said it didn't matter. I'm simply saying these characters originated in a video game. Therefore, they are video game characters.

 

[TheAJJohnson]

What a work of art. I call this one: The lengths a Smash fan will go to "disconfirm" a character. It's a bit of a lengthy title I know, but I feel like it truly captures the essence of this work.

Being serious, let's attack this argument.

Like Square Enix did nothing for the Kingdom Hearts series? Kingdom Hearts started out as Disney x Final Fantasy, which certainly drew people in and made them stay. There's a reason a large criticism of KH3 is a lack of Final Fantasy characters.

What else does Sora have besides a game? It's not like he's in any cartoons or movies or anything. Just the Kingdom Hearts games and some cameos/guest appearances in Final Fantasy games.

How about you compare the response to Ash winning the League to Sword and Shield news and tell me which got people more excited. Or how the games continually try to get closer to the anime. Or how the trading card game literally helped Pokémon blow up and become the mass franchise it is today. At this point, the mainline Pokémon games are a sideshow compared to the franchise as a whole.

You mean like the Epic Mickey series? I mean yeah, those games did well, but nowhere near as well as Kingdom Hearts has. You can compare the overall sales and longevity and it clearly shows.

Kingdom Hearts has more than enough original content to carry itself at this point. Like, you can argue that the Disney aspect is the main draw like NonSpecificGuy , but Kingdom Hearts can (arguably) stand well on its own without it. Have you even played the series? Because I get the feeling that based on your argument you have not.

No better way to argue a point than with the classic words "I think." They pretty much prove you're arguing an opinion based on an opinion, and there's no fact at all in this argument.

>Sora
>Disney icon

Spoiler

I'm sorry, but even as one of Sora's biggest supporters I wouldn't dare call him a Disney icon. Mickey Mouse, Iron Man, and Elsa are Disney icons. Sora is lucky to show up as a silhouette on a D23 Gold Print behind those characters. There's a reason Disney acknowledging Kingdom Hearts makes news when it happens: because they never do. Kingdom Hearts is at most a high B tier franchise for Disney compared to their other series.

Has he been mentioned with Goku and Iron Man? No. Therefore, he is not in the same box as them. He's not even anywhere near the box they're in. Since Kingdom Hearts is a video game. Not a cartoon, not a movie, not a book. A video game.

Some good and not so good counter arguments here. If I could carve out a good chunk of time today, I'd respond to them. That doesn't look likely though.

But based on your profile picture and your language throughout your rebuttal, I'd say you're invested so much in the character that no matter what I say, you wouldn't accept any point I make, even the valid ones. Your snide remarks strongly imply that you don't care to engage in a discourse as much as you'd like to lay waste to those opinions with which you disagree.

So here's a challenge for you (and for anyone that wants a character). As someone that thinks Sora has a chance, I want you to construct an argument why he won't be a DLC pick.

 

[DevaAshera]

I love this! The 2P and Kainé alts are awesome. I bet the Emil spirit battle would have Kapp'n spawn a lot. I love the music selection, but I would hope A Beautiful Song is in, though props on adding Weight of the World because I know I'm not the only person who thought of it immediately when finishing classic mode.

2B is basically where Joker was for me in that I'll never expect her and she'll always be a pipe dream but considering NieR Automata is the best game I've ever played, it's only natural to want her in Smash.

Thanks, I'd definitely use 2P a lot since I just love the black hair, dark skin, and white outfit. I couldn't get the shade on the sprite exactly where I wanted it to be..but I did my best, so glad you like it. A Beautiful Song and Bipolar Nightmare were both on the original draft for this, but I swapped them for Song of the Ancients - Atonement and Copied City for a little more variety..they would definitely be songs I'd want to hear though. I had to include Kainé's Theme because of how much I love it (and it does appear in a secret area in NieR Automata). Not only did I include the Weight of the World, but it was the End of YoRHa version so that both vocal mixes would be mixed into it.

Same here, heck, on the night Smash released, I even turned to a friend saying I was expecting Sora but I'd also love Persona, but I doubted it'd ever happen..and then half an hour later Joker was announced lol. NieR Automata was definitely one of my favorite games that released that year, its constantly fighting for 1st with Persona 5 (sorry Breath of the Wild, Super Mario Odyssey, and Fire Emblem Warriors..). Having 2B appear in Soul Calibur VI was already a big deal for me..but if she somehow gets into Smash too..that would be amazing!

(Removed images for mobile convenience)

Wow, these look great! 2B with Nier music in Smash would be insane for me - I know the chances are low in terms of too many new compositions, but remixes of Pascal's theme and Birth of a Wish would also be really welcome.

I don't really think it would happen, but having the Adam fight be against Joker in his student outfit (glasses + the two types of counter) would be amazing. He's DLC though, and they don't normally use DLC characters for Spirit battles aside from their own boards...

Thanks~
I completely go, the music in NieR Automata, and the original NieR as well, is amazing.
Yeah, you're probably right lol I don't know if the actual battle would be against a White Kirby or a Wario (so he could ram on his bike). For the Adam & Eve battle, I envisioned it as being male Robin and trunks Shulk since, like you said, they don't really use DLC characters for Spirit Battles outside of their own pack.

Nice character fan pack.

Thanks

I musta missed that Jump Force TV show...

I think you're focusing too much on the fact that it's called Kingdom Hearts instead of, say, Disney's Great House of Mouse Adventure. Yeah, KH isn't an adaptation of a thing called Kingdom Hearts in other media. It's an adaptation of a movie called Alice in Wonderland, and a movie called Hercules, and a movie called Tarzan, and a movie called Aladdin, and a movie called Nightmare Before Christmas, and more than a little theme park ride called the Magical Kingdom, and so on.

You're right, it's not an adaptation of a franchise that existed in other media. It's an adaptation of 30 franchises that existed in other media. You want to keep believing otherwise, fine, you do you. But you're fooling yourself.

Honestly, while Kingdom Hearts HAS adaptions, its kind of its own thing. To call it an adaption or part of those franchises seems disingenuous.
Kingdom Hearts is Kingdom Hearts..that's pretty much it. Its a game series featuring crossovers.

Personally, I don't think Sakurai considers what the franchise the character is from so much as where they originated, but honestly arguing and debating this when we can't speak for Sakurai is pointless.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Sora is a video game character and there isn't a debate to be had about this. He's a game character that visits non-video game worlds, but he still originates from an IP that was originally designed as a video game and as his own creation for a video game.

This is not a hill anyone should be choosing to die on.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

>Log onto Smashboards
>31 notifications
>12 people quoted me

Is this what it's like to be popular?

Some good and not so good counter arguments here. If I could carve out a good chunk of time today, I'd respond to them. That doesn't look likely though.

But based on your profile picture and your language throughout your rebuttal, I'd say you're invested so much in the character that no matter what I say, you wouldn't accept any point I make, even the valid ones. Your snide remarks strongly imply that you don't care to engage in a discourse as much as you'd like to lay waste to those opinions with which you disagree.

So here's a challenge for you (and for anyone that wants a character). As someone that thinks Sora has a chance, I want you to construct an argument why he won't be a DLC pick.

I mean, I've acknowledged the shortcomings of the character in my Ultimate Square Enix Character Argument. Even with all the points in favor for him he's got to go through Disney, which is a process in of itself as anyone who's worked at Disney can tell you.

I acknowledge my own bias frequently and make sure to check it at the door (again, I start every character essay I write with that). For you to simply say "you're biased" and disregard my points because of that is an incredibly weak counter. It's pretty much admitting you don't have an argument to stand on, so you have to resort to ad hominem attacks.

Seriously, i get that you want to defend Sora and you actually make good points as usual but there's no need to be disrespectful.

It is clear that you didn't even try to convince or inform TheAJJohnson here, you were just trying to humiliate them for what was clearly a simple, inoffensive opinion.

This kind of smug 'argument deconstruction' is just toxic imo especially when they're totally uncalled for.

I'm nothing but an honest man.

If I see something stupid, I'm going to call it stupid and point out why.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Sora is a video game character and there isn't a debate to be had about this.

And yet we super easily did. Weird.

>Log onto Smashboards
>31 notifications
>12 people quoted me

Is this what it's like to be popular?

Depends. Are the quotes...positive?

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

And yet we super easily did. Weird.

Depends. Are the quotes...positive?

I mean, it really wasn't a "super easy" debate. It's pretty contentious, and there's a clear favored side. It almost reminds me of Grinch Leak speculation where people just kinda plugged their ears and didn't listen to facts.

Most of the quotes were about Lloyd's VA teasing a new project. To be fair everyone, I said it might be related to Smash but probably isn't. I remember Adam Howden pulling similar antics around the time of Shulk's reveal, which is why I brought it up.

 

[Idon]

I think there's a key distinction to be made about Kingdom Hearts and most typical "crossovers."

If you take all the Disney elements out of Kingdom Hearts, you'd still have Kingdom Hearts, just with nondescript fairy-tale filler instead of disney themed filler. It still stands on its own mythos and universe independent of the Disney properties it has, which is why content like KH3's big DLC expansion can afford to not even have any Disney elements at all, why trailers for the games focus on Sora and co. first and foremost, and why merchandise can be manufactured at a premium that only features Kingdom Hearts original characters.

If you take away all the Shonen Jump elements out of Jump Force, you'd have... not much left. Modern day cities, a personality-less create-a-character, and a villain with as basic a motivation as you could possibly get? It's not a universe that was made with the intent of being its own thing; it's quite clearly just a contrived setting for manga characters to gather. Neither the fans of shonen jump, the companies, the writers, or the world at large cares about or invests in the "Jump Force original universe."

But anyways, we're all wasting our time with this anime trash:
Let's discuss why Amingo from Marvel vs. Capcom 2 doesn't qualify as a video-game character because he's an original character from a game series that incorporates comic book characters.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I mean, it really wasn't a "super easy" debate. It's pretty contentious, and there's a clear favored side. It almost reminds me of Grinch Leak speculation where people just kinda plugged their ears and didn't listen to facts.

Yeah, but I won't hold that against you guys.

 

[Ace C.R.O.S.S.]

Aside from the games being solid, Style Savvy has a lot going for it, as far as arbitrary reasons we come up with for wanting characters in Smash. Let's recap:

First party? Check. Relatively recent IP with no playable reps? You know it. Is it a world Smash explored? There's no fashion/business simulator hybrid characters in sight. Moreover, the series originated from a console that was mostly overlooked when it came to playable reps: The Nintendo DS. Is it popular? Popular enough to have four games since 2008, and it's likely that more are on the way. Would it benefit from advertisement? Absolutely! It caters to a large demographic that Smash doesn't really try to cater to: little girls. Would a style Savvy rep be fun? That's subjective, but what I can say is that she'd be an unorthodox non-combatant type character that will allow Sakurai to be creative with her moveset. Personally, I think it will be hard to make a sassy, ovaries-to-the-wall, overtly feminine fashionista/entrepreneur boring in a fighting game. Imagine coming back from a stock deficit and yelling "clutch!" as you literally pummel someone with a clutch purse and proceed to disrespect them with a perfect catwalk strut. Any other miscellaneous things that might interest me? Well, she'd most likely be an avatar character with different clothing/skin tones/hair styles and/or hair colors for each outfit. The series has more games than Mother and more songs in Smash than Final Fantasy (and many 'Other' series with songs in Smash in general). Also, some of the devs behind Style Savvy made one of the greatest wrestling games of all time: No Mercy. And despite having a lot going for her, she'd still somehow be unexpected.

This idea sells itself!



I wonder how many people in this topic played with toys as children. Imagine some kids playing with their Transformer, Power Ranger, and Spiderman toys and making them fight one another. That is Smash in a nutshell: zany massive crossover fun. Now, I was the girl who brought dolls to that fight and still had a blast. A Style Savvy rep would be that doll.

Emmmm, i was referring if the game is that good, not the chances...

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Just because you can debate about something doesn't mean that there isn't a factually correct side. You can debate about everything and take factually incorrect stances on plenty of those issues. Just ask any number of people who scream that their opinions are equal to scientifically proven conclusions.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Yes, yes they did.

At this point it's basically "Does Sakurai like MOBAs as a genre, and if so which way does he lean?" Unanswerable at this point (We don't know if Riot's Fighting game or Dota Underlords is getting to the Switch for instance, although I do believe both could appear next year or 2021), but I won't count out the question.

Huh. I even wonder what kind of character they would pick. With Overwatch, Tracer is obviously the poster girl, but LoL doesn't exactly focus too much on one single Champion. My guess would be a mage-type character, Ahri or Lux come to mind.

I think the biggest thing with MOBA-style game characters is that most of their normals would need to be original, since their usual techniques are, in most cases, fitted better for specials/Final Smash. Some kind of level up mechanic could work really well for a passive, though for the most part characters already have their own passives, so... Gotta say, I'd like to see what Sakurai would do with that.

Thanks~
I completely go, the music in NieR Automata, and the original NieR as well, is amazing.
Yeah, you're probably right lol I don't know if the actual battle would be against a White Kirby or a Wario (so he could ram on his bike). For the Adam & Eve battle, I envisioned it as being male Robin and trunks Shulk since, like you said, they don't really use DLC characters for Spirit Battles outside of their own pack.

Yeah, that sounds about right. Shulk has a counter too, so his shirtless version would work well for Eve.

You know, I wonder what kind of heartless references would be in the Spirit battles.

Spoiler

Especially Pascal's, as well as the one against Devola and Popola.

That kind of thing sounds exactly like what Yoko Taro would want from Sakurai if the series went to Smash. That man is the kind of person that would

Spoiler

repost clips of Lucas using PK Thunder on another with a Franklin Badge

on Shared Content just for the heck of it.

 

[NurpNurp]

I musta missed that Jump Force TV show...

I think you're focusing too much on the fact that it's called Kingdom Hearts instead of, say, Disney's Great House of Mouse Adventure. Yeah, KH isn't an adaptation of a thing called Kingdom Hearts in other media. It's an adaptation of a movie called Alice in Wonderland, and a movie called Hercules, and a movie called Tarzan, and a movie called Aladdin, and a movie called Nightmare Before Christmas, and more than a little theme park ride called the Magical Kingdom, and so on.

You're right, it's not an adaptation of a franchise that existed in other media. It's an adaptation of 30 franchises that existed in other media. You want to keep believing otherwise, fine, you do you. But you're fooling yourself.

That's not an adaptation. It hits on the stories of the Disney movies but as basically anyone will tell you the Disney stuff basically does not matter in the overall narrative.

Sora meets the criteria we have for Smash characters being from a video game series. It's a series with Donald and Goofy, but also plenty of original characters and locations to pull from (Hollow Bastion, Twilight Town, Outset Island, and basically all the characters in those locations).

 

[osby]

Sora (Japanese: ソラ) is a fictional character and the protagonist of Square Enix's Kingdom Hearts video game series.

Sora is the protagonist of a video game franchise and created for exactly this purpose. Why are we even arguing this?

 

[3BitSaurus]

plenty of original characters and locations to pull from (Hollow Bastion, Twilight Town, Outset Island

... uh, do you mean Destiny Islands? Outset Island is a place in Wind Waker.

If I'm being honest, my personal choice of stage would have to be Twilight Town or Radiant Garden. It's not that I dislike the other places, but they just seem more unique in the context of Smash, at least in my opinion.

I'd say The World That Never Was or Keyblade Graveyard as well, but I really don't know how the fanbase would feel about that, since they're... more significant, but also less associated with Sora himself, I'd say.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Here's a cool little something from our friend Masahiro Sakurai:

Although the nature of our respective games may differ...

According to the Word of God Sakurai himself, Kingdom Hearts is, in fact, a video game.

Just because you can debate about something doesn't mean that there isn't a factually correct side. You can debate about everything and take factually incorrect stances on plenty of those issues. Just ask any number of people who scream that their opinions are equal to scientifically proven conclusions.

This is essentially what it comes down to. This argument is nonsensical and borders on other such arguments. The earth is not flat, there is no Illuminati pulling the strings behind everything, and Sora is a video game character.

 

[NurpNurp]

... uh, do you mean Destiny Islands? Outset Island is a place in Wind Waker.

If I'm being honest, my personal choice of stage would have to be Twilight Town or Radiant Garden. It's not that I dislike the other places, but they just seem more unique in the context of Smash, at least in my opinion.

I'd say The World That Never Was or Keyblade Graveyard as well, but I really don't know how the fanbase would feel about that, since they're... more significant, but also less associated with Sora himself, I'd say.

And here I display both my lack of KH knowledge and ignorance of all things LoZ. I tried, and still got the point across at least

 

[TheAJJohnson]

>Log onto Smashboards
>31 notifications
>12 people quoted me

Is this what it's like to be popular?


I mean, I've acknowledged the shortcomings of the character in my Ultimate Square Enix Character Argument. Even with all the points in favor for him he's got to go through Disney, which is a process in of itself as anyone who's worked at Disney can tell you.

I acknowledge my own bias frequently and make sure to check it at the door (again, I start every character essay I write with that). For you to simply say "you're biased" and disregard my points because of that is an incredibly weak counter. It's pretty much admitting you don't have an argument to stand on, so you have to resort to ad hominem attacks.

I'm nothing but an honest man.

If I see something stupid, I'm going to call it stupid and point out why.

I'm a fan of Smash and I jump on here from time to time to engage in exciting discussions and silly speculation. Sometimes I can punch out a long post (like when I'm supposed to be going to bed but instead stay up for 50 minutes longer posting about Sora), but often I just bask in other people's thoughts.

As for me not responding to your points, it's not because I don't have a good argument, but because I'm not the kind of idiot that thinks my hand is stronger than a blender's blades. By your own admission, you're passionate about Sora, and I can respect that. So what's the point in me going back and forth with you on that? You seem like don't want to consider changing your mind, and that's fine. I also don't have unlimited time to argue with someone that isn't engaging in civil discourse. For you to say I'm resorting to ad hominem attacks is a tad hypocritical, don't you think?

What a work of art. I call this one: The lengths a Smash fan will go to "disconfirm" a character. It's a bit of a lengthy title I know, but I feel like it truly captures the essence of this work.

Nothing factual here, just disparaging remarks.

Or how about this one?

https://youtu.be/qw0r0Y9SoZg

Definitely made a good point with this one.

Anyway, my challenge still stands. Construct an argument against Sora for us.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Scott Menville no longer voices Lloyd, Brian Beacock replaced him and voiced Lloyd in more stuff than Scott

Wait, if Scott isn't Lloyd's current voice actor then why did we bring up the tweet as if it means anything for Lloyd's possible chances for Smash? Wouldn't they use Brian?

 

[3BitSaurus]

And here I display both my lack of KH knowledge and ignorance of all things LoZ. I tried, and still got the point across at least

Reminds me of how I constantly refer to Jolly Roger's Lagoon (Banjo-Tooie level) as Jolly Roger's Bay (because of a similarly-named level in SM64), despite my knowledge of both games.

 

[SKX31]

I'll take anything to get away from the Sora debate, luckily there was a sidetrack already prepped!

SNK is also appealing to China, which over there they have connections to Tencent, who will help Nintendo launch the Switch there.

I do wonder if the Chinese official release of Smash Ultimate will have all the DLC characters so far (possibly including Terry and/or FP5) on base though, leaving only post pass DLC to require purchases.

i also wonder how they’ll handle the Chinese release of splatoon 2... they’re too late for Splatfests that’s for certain

Would not be surprised if that's the case. A lot of consoles already in China are grey market imports - so giving the official release such a bonus feature could sway a lot of people. Sure, it depends on how Smash is marketed (or, how your average Chinese is going to first see Smash), but I don't see a reason why Terry or Sans wouldn't be prominent in ads, alongside Mario, Zelda and Pokemon. Also, I doubt neither Nintendo nor Tencent want to face the possible PR nightmare that is "Buy Switch + Smash, but have to pay extra for Terry Day 1".

Huh. I even wonder what kind of character they would pick. With Overwatch, Tracer is obviously the poster girl, but LoL doesn't exactly focus too much on one single Champion. My guess would be a mage-type character, Ahri or Lux come to mind.

I think the biggest thing with MOBA-style game characters is that most of their normals would need to be original, since their usual techniques are, in most cases, fitted better for specials/Final Smash. Some kind of level up mechanic could work really well for a passive, though for the most part characters already have their own passives, so... Gotta say, I'd like to see what Sakurai would do with that.

I'd imagine with LoL (or Dota 2), they'd pick the viable poster children. For LoL, I imagine that it'd be Ryze (Choosing between constant magical pressure or the big magical combo, the passive would need reworking though from the "bonus mana = more damage" one in LoL) - or Ahri (who I imagine to be a Rosalina / Palutena combo, only way more agressive and Sheik-like.) Lux is another viable option. Dota 2 doesn't lack viable poster children either (the main reason I've gone a lot about Lina is her straightforward "blow you up" moveset, with her passive being more spells cast = more attack and move speed.), but I won't go in depth unless prompted.

Yes, the normals would have to be original, but then again Sakurai's created original movesets almost everywhere one looks. Falcon, Villager, Pac-Man, WFT... Yea I can go on. I don't think that'd be an issue. Ahri probably has the easiest time IMHO because she looks to be around Palu or Rosa's height I'd guess? Would need confirmation on that, but the point stands. It's easier to make the passives the gimmick if you ask me. For example, Ahri's "Hit 2 spells on a target and you get more move speed out of it".

 

[NurpNurp]

Lux is another viable option.

And not to mention she has more than enough inspiration for alts considering how many dang skins she has

 

[TheCJBrine]

I haven't played KH.

I don't care whether Sora is in or not.

But to say he isn't a videogame character is downright denial. If Sakurai wants Sora, he's gonna ask whoever he needs to ask from Disney and hope they say yes; if it'll even be a problem, since Disney asks Nomura out of respect before they do anything with Sora.

Heck, Microsoft wasn't and still mostly isn't a gaming company. Disney has had videogames before, and really what the company is about likely doesn't even matter as long as they have original videogame franchises.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I'm a fan of Smash and I jump on here from time to time to engage in exciting discussions and silly speculation. Sometimes I can punch out a long post (like when I'm supposed to be going to bed but instead stay up for 50 minutes longer posting about Sora), but often I just bask in other people's thoughts.

As for me not responding to your points, it's not because I don't have a good argument, but because I'm not the kind of idiot that thinks my hand is stronger than a blender's blades. By your own admission, you're passionate about Sora, and I can respect that. So what's the point in me going back and forth with you on that? You seem like don't want to consider changing your mind, and that's fine. I also don't have unlimited time to argue with someone that isn't engaging in civil discourse. For you to say I'm resorting to ad hominem attacks is a tad hypocritical, don't you think?

Anyway, my challenge still stands. Construct an argument against Sora for us.

I've already done that. It's called the Sora section in my Ultimate Square Enix Character Argument, wherein I discuss the merits of and barriers to his conclusion. All you have to do is read it.

I won't change my mind because I've seen every side of this argument and have had the time to come up with an informed opinion. Does my bias factor into how I interpret the evidence? Sure. But I'm aware of the evidence against my opinion and consider it.

I can respect an informed opinion that disagrees with mine, such as that of NonSpecificGuy or PlayerOneTyler , but I simply can't respect an uninformed opinion trying to be argued as fact.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Sora meets the criteria we have for Smash characters being from a video game series.

You mean the criteria we don't know, because Nintendo has never stated it? Well that's a relief.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Wait, if Scott isn't Lloyd's current voice actor then why did we bring up the tweet as if it means anything for Lloyd's possible chances for Smash? Wouldn't they use Brian?

Because the people bringing Scott's tweet didn't seem to know this tidbit

 

[NurpNurp]

You mean the criteria we don't know, because Nintendo has never stated it? Well that's a relief.

Just the known limits that Sakurai himself has stated, basically that he originates from a video game. Given the absolute corporate wizardry required to get all these third parties together it's within reason that he could make it

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Because the people bringing Scott's tweet didn't seem to know this tidbit

They might want the OG voice actor back for Smash. I dunno.

It's probably not Smash, but an interesting development nonetheless.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Just the known limits that Sakurai himself has stated, basically that he originates from a video game. Given the absolute corporate wizardry required to get all these third parties together it's within reason that he could make it

It was never my argument that he couldn't.

Just because you can debate about something doesn't mean that there isn't a factually correct side.

That's true, except nobody HERE knows what the factually correct side IS because none of us work for Nintendo, and none of us knows what Nintendo does or does not qualify as "video game content".

And that's the problem. My entire argument is that it could go either way, but the opposition to the argument is "No, it's DEFINITELY this thing that I can in no way prove!"

There's no other content from any property in KHs situation in Smash, and Nintendo has never stated properties in that situation are acceptable in Smash, so to act like it's for sure is just asinine. It's just fanboys sticking their fingers in their ears going "LALALALA! THAT'S NOT POSSIBLE!! LALALALA!!"

 

[NoOtherPersona]

So like what other franchises would you guys want in

Spoiler

no more sora he's a video game character shut up

 

[NurpNurp]

So like what other franchises would you guys want in

Honestly? Guilty Gear could be neat. My only other dream character that I can think of would be Raiden from MG Rising, but Sol Badguy could be a really fun character if they incorporate Tension, Install, and FRCs