Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[osby]

If he does get in though I fully expect him to be a less gimmicky character like Banjo & Kazooie, and may be ridiculed for it. I hope it wouldn't be too bad though. Not every character needs fighting game inputs/Limit Breaks/easy 0-death combos & Witch Time/Persona/Command Selection to add something unique to the game.

I mean, I see characters with fighter abilities get hate for being "too gimmicky", so it goes both ways.

 

[N3ON]

If i'd make a list of characters which inclusions have a higher likelihood (and still such a thing is never safe to assume) than others, Travis would definitely top my list, followed by Dante and Crash. But again, nothing is safe to be assumed as "likely" as many people do.

I don't think anyone has name-dropped their character in Smash as much as Suda51. Just let him out of his misery.

At least there's some rekindled hope to be had now with the post-pass additions.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Although I can deal with Joker/Ren's inclusion, I can already think of at least 10 3rd party newcomers that would be worse for me.

Quote (cave story), Yuri (fatal frame), Cuphead, Frisk, Travis (no more heroes), Chell (portal) and Shovel Knight would be 5 times worse.

Beck (mighty no 9), Lilac (freedom Planet), Marina (mischief makers), and Neku (the world ends with you) would be 10 times worse.

Yuri is owned by Nintendo bro.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Neku (the world ends with you) would be 10 times worse.

My dude, did you just insult one of the greatest boys in gaming?

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Yuri is owned by Nintendo bro.

My dude, did you just insult one of the greatest boys in gaming?

Don't fall for his trolling. He does this almost daily. Dude's beyond reasoning.

Like, it's not even worth farming likes off of him by responding. Why even give him the attention?

 

[Nquoid]

Don't fall for his trolling. He does this almost daily. Dude's beyond reasoning.

Like, it's not even worth farming likes off of him by responding. Why even give him the attention?

I got my 1000th like off my response to him, and I'm more proud than I care to admit

 

[kaithehedgefox]

My dude, did you just insult one of the greatest boys in gaming?

I'm sorry, I wasn't saying I hate Neku. And also, I might not wanna post here anymore.

 

[Nquoid]

I'm sorry, I wasn't saying I hate Neku. And also, I might not wanna post here anymore.

So what is the criteria then? Is it just as simple as 'they've not been in many games or around that long in years'? Because that's the only thing a lot of those characters have in common

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I think Sakurai might be self conscious about appearing biased, and that's why there's so little kirby content

Sakurai said during Brawl's development about Meta knight inclusion: "I knew the character (Meta knight) was popular in Japan, but last time around I held off and didn't include him in the game. I wanted to put other people's titles ahead of my own". (Source: https://www.gamezone.com/originals/sakurai-responds-to-ssb-brawl-poll/ )

We also know that King dedede was cut during Smash 64 development. Maybe it was only because of time restriction or system limitations, but I feel like King dedede would have been, at least, considered in Melee after that and just like Meta knight, held off for the next game.

Also you could note that a lot of criticism went to Sakurai after Smash 4 because of the "over representation" of Kid icarus. If I had to guess, I think this is why we don't have Bandana waddle dee playable; Sakurai was afraid back in Melee to add his own characters, in Brawl and Smash 4 he changed his mind, but when he add Dark pit people criticize it, so now he don't want to take the risk of adding other of his character and getting criticized again. That's just a big theory, maybe there's totally other reason about why Dee isn't playable.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I'm sorry, I wasn't saying I hate Neku.

You're absolutely correct (when asked if he hated Joker/Ren's inclusion). Now behold my true and honest ultimate reason why:

Spoiler

Joker/Ren doesn't need his inclusion. And I don't need to explain why.

And that's it.

Although I can deal with Joker/Ren's inclusion, I can already think of at least 10 3rd party newcomers that would be worse for me.

Quote (cave story), Yuri (fatal frame), Cuphead, Frisk, Travis (no more heroes), Chell (portal) and Shovel Knight would be 5 times worse.

Beck (mighty no 9), Lilac (freedom Planet), Marina (mischief makers), and Neku (the world ends with you) would be 10 times worse.

**** it. I'll bite. So let me get this straight:

• You hate Joker's inclusion
• Neku's inclusion would be 10 times worse than Joker's inclusion
• But you don't hate Neku?

Something really isn't adding up here.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

• But you don't hate Neku?

Something isn't really adding up here.

I actually never hated Joker in the first place, only his inclusion.

So what is the criteria then? Is it just as simple as 'they've not been in many games or around that long in years'? Because that's the only thing a lot of those characters have in common

You are almost correct, but it's because they lack complete series.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I actually never hated Joker in the first place.

Then why do you come to this thread every other day and complain about his inclusion in Smash? If you've got nothing against the character, why put so much time, effort, and thought into trashing him and disregarding his fans?

It's almost as if you're admitting to trolling at this point.

You are almost correct, but it's because they lack complete series.

You do understand the concept that a "series" of games can include a standalone game, right?

 

[kaithehedgefox]

You do understand the concept that a "series" of games can include a standalone game, right.

I know, but Joker/Ren doesn't count as having a complete series, because he's not the main protagonist of the full series.

I think I just need to stop calm down, and take some deep breaths.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Alright, look. This has gone beyond reason. Dude doesn't like Joker's inclusion. So what? His reasons are his reasons and there's no reason we should have a say so in his opinion. We don't have to agree with it but we also don't have to be ass hats.

This has gone from a quick reality check for him, to straight bullying. Knock it off.

 

[---]

https://smashboards.com/account/ignored

We're kind of getting to the point where not ignoring is actively derailing this thread.

 

[Nquoid]

You are almost correct, but it's because they lack complete series.

Right, but the structure of Persona means there won't be a Persona 5-2. It's a standalone game, where characters might appear in future installments, but Persona 6 is going to have a new cast and a new plot. It's the quintessential JRPG structure. Cave Story doesn't need a sequel, Portal is a perfect duology of games.

I think the thing that rankles people is applying aribritray logic to why they shouldn't be in game. You're allowed to say a character inclusion doesn't suit you, but explaining the rules, and presenting something as an objective truth, behind what is a fundamentally emotional reaction on your part is going to ruffle feathers

 

[osby]

You are almost correct, but it's because they lack complete series.

Persona has 6 mainline games, 10 side games, 7 enhanced ports and multiple media adaptations.

I really think your idea of a "complete series" is something arbitrary, subjective and more likely than not nonsensical.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I know, but Joker/Ren doesn't count as having a complete series, because he's not the main protagonist of the full series.

Doesn’t the series change protagonists in each game or nearly each game like Fire Emblem and Dragon Quest do?

Haven’t played it, but that’s what I recall from what people have said and stuff.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

To move on from that drivel. I hope Kyo gets in as a 2nd King of Fighters rep!

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Doesn’t the series change protagonists in each game or nearly each game like Fire Emblem does?

Haven’t played it, but that’s what I recall from what people have said and stuff.

It does.

Which apparently isn't good enough, even though Duck Hunt and Ice Climbers only showed up in one game (which are incomplete series judging by previously given logic), R.O.B. never showed up in any game before Mario Kart DS as a cameo (he doesn't even have a series), and of all the Fire Emblem characters, only Marth and Ike have appeared in more than one mainline game, because their arcs got two (yet all the other FE characters are justified in their inclusion given the previous logic?).

The logic is completely arbitrary, and the attempt to pass it off as off as fact continually is annoying at best and inconsiderate and rude at worst given how many users have expressed dissatisfaction with these posts.

I guess I'll follow the mods' advice on this one and use the handy-dandy ignore feature.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It does.

Which apparently isn't good enough, even though Duck Hunt and Ice Climbers only showed up in one game (which are incomplete series judging by previously given logic), R.O.B. never showed up in any game before Mario Kart DS as a cameo (he doesn't even have a series), and of all the Fire Emblem characters, only Marth and Ike have appeared in more than one mainline game, because their arcs got two (yet all the other FE characters are justified in their inclusion given the previous logic?).

The logic is completely arbitrary, and the attempt to pass it off as off as fact continually is annoying at best and inconsiderate and rude at worst given how many users have expressed dissatisfaction with these posts.

I guess I'll follow the mods' advice on this one and use the handy-dandy ignore feature.

I'm only half awake reading this but ROB made cameos in Pikmin, F Zero GX and Kirby Dreamland 3 and I'm pretty sure those are older than Mario Kart DS

 

[TriggerX]

DoomGuy Or slayer, whatever he is called could be an interesting pick. I’d be a little worried about his move set though.
Can’t say I have seen any decent speculations on movesets either.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Do any of you think we'll get a reveal for the fifth fighter before the game awards?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

DoomGuy Or slayer, whatever he is called could be an interesting pick. I’d be a little worried about his move set though.
Can’t say I have seen any decent speculations on movesets either.

I think that's because Sakurai's been rather unpredictable with moveset choices, like Mega Man's pellets being his jab, ftilt and nair. It makes sense but nobody on this website really considered that. Speaking of Mega Man, I think he may be an explanation for your first point as he's the closest to a full on gunslinger in Smash so people aren't too sure what to expect from a full on gunslinger

 

[Deleted member]

Do any of you think we'll get a reveal for the fifth fighter before the game awards?

I personally expect a November direct (Maybe around the 7th of November) going over things like Animal Crossing: New Horizons, XC1D and some other stuff in their release schedule getting highlights but of course in that said direct would come a Terry Showcase like Banjo and the reveal of Fighter 5.

And I think they'd save the video game awards for something like the first additional DLC Character + going over how they'll distribute said additional DLC.

 

[AmphabulouSnake]

DoomGuy Or slayer, whatever he is called could be an interesting pick. I’d be a little worried about his move set though.
Can’t say I have seen any decent speculations on movesets either.

There are a few moveset concepts on Youtube if you want.
His moveset would capitalize on his brutal strenght and his fast paced combat, considering it's very important to keep moving in the Doom games, it'd be his weakness I think, and he could use most of his moves while still moving.

I personally don't think we'll get a fighter revealed at the Game Awards.
My prediction is a Smash direct in November detailing Terry's moveset, then reveal of fighter 5 (IMO Doom Slayer is probably the one), indepth look at their moveset and pack, and finally a teaser for the next dlc fighter without much gameplay (I'm thinking Geno but it could be anybody else).

 

[TechPowah]

Honestly, i would expect November to just be for Terry

and then the Game Awards can do B O T H character 5 <potentially being dropped the same day> A N D the first post-pass character <now in development!>

 

[AmphabulouSnake]

Honestly, i would expect November to just be for Terry

and then the Game Awards can do B O T H character 5 <potentially being dropped the same day> A N D the first post-pass character <now in development!>

There's no way we're getting two character announcement at TGA
It'd be redundant, not everyone over there likes Smash lol
Also fighter 5 will definitely release much later, in late January most likely, if we go by the fact that the fighters Pass will end in February...

 

[TechPowah]

and Banjo was stated to be released in Fall, yet actually came out in the beginning of September

I would like to think that "February 2020" was more of a guideline than a rigid expiration date

 

[Curious Villager]

I think November is a good place to reveal fighter 5, then release them late January/start February like Piranha Plant.

We could potentially see fighter 6 be revealed at the game awards like Joker.

Guess we'll see.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think November is a good place to reveal fighter 5, then release them late January/start February like Piranha Plant.

We could potentially see fighter 6 be revealed at the game awards like Joker.

Guess we'll see.

Joker was revealed then due to Persona 5's history with TGA. Who else could be revealed then...
WAIT A SECOND!

GUYS I GOT IT!

HE'S IN

Spoiler

 

[Calamitas]

Joker was revealed then due to Persona 5's history with TGA. Who else could be revealed then...
WAIT A SECOND!

GUYS I GOT IT!

HE'S IN

Spoiler

View attachment 238511

Spoiler

CRANKY
TAKES IT TO THE FRIDGE

 

[YoshiandToad]

Joker was revealed then due to Persona 5's history with TGA. Who else could be revealed then...
WAIT A SECOND!

GUYS I GOT IT!

HE'S IN

Spoiler

View attachment 238511

Spoiler

CRANKY IS GONNA BE A STAR

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

To move on from that drivel. I hope Kyo gets in as a 2nd King of Fighters rep!

1st*

Terry's a Fatal Fury character

 

[Wunderwaft]

I personally expect a November direct (Maybe around the 7th of November) going over things like Animal Crossing: New Horizons, XC1D and some other stuff in their release schedule getting highlights but of course in that said direct would come a Terry Showcase like Banjo and the reveal of Fighter 5.

And I think they'd save the video game awards for something like the first additional DLC Character + going over how they'll distribute said additional DLC.

If they reveal the first DLC character of the second wave at the game awards then I'm gonna assume it's a mainstream character that is well known to the audience in there.

Kratos anyone? No? Okay I'll walk myself out of here...

For real though imagine if it was Kratos

 

[DarthEnderX]

To move on from that drivel. I hope Kyo gets in as a 2nd King of Fighters rep!

Nah, if SNK get's a 2nd rep I'm hoping for the SV-001 Metal Slug or Nakoruru. Having their 2nd character be so similar to their first one isn't very interesting.

Do any of you think we'll get a reveal for the fifth fighter before the game awards?

Yes, because I'm expecting character 5 to be revealed in the announcement trailer for update 6.0. at the same time they release Terry, which is going to be in November, while the Game Awards are in December.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Nah, if SNK get's a 2nd rep I'm hoping for the SV-001 Metal Slug or Nakoruru. Having their 2nd character be so similar to their first one isn't very interesting.

Poor Kyo deserves it though, he has yet to be in a crossover outside of SNK (besides the general Capcom ones), while pretty much every other iconic SNK character is at the moment. (plus he and Terry fight nothing alike).

Not that SNK is getting a 2nd character though.

Sorry for the 50 million edits it's incredibly late for me lmao.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Poor Kyo deserves it though, he has yet to be in a crossover outside of SNK, while pretty much every other iconic SNK character is at the moment. (plus he and Terry fight nothing alike).

Look, I know man. I like Kyo, and he deserves a spot eventually. But he's another modern day street fighter. That's just not as interesting as an ancient Japanese shrine maiden with a murderous bird or a cute tank.

 

[DevaAshera]

Sakurai said during Brawl's development about Meta knight inclusion: "I knew the character (Meta knight) was popular in Japan, but last time around I held off and didn't include him in the game. I wanted to put other people's titles ahead of my own". (Source: https://www.gamezone.com/originals/sakurai-responds-to-ssb-brawl-poll/ )

We also know that King dedede was cut during Smash 64 development. Maybe it was only because of time restriction or system limitations, but I feel like King dedede would have been, at least, considered in Melee after that and just like Meta knight, held off for the next game.

Also you could note that a lot of criticism went to Sakurai after Smash 4 because of the "over representation" of Kid icarus. If I had to guess, I think this is why we don't have Bandana waddle dee playable; Sakurai was afraid back in Melee to add his own characters, in Brawl and Smash 4 he changed his mind, but when he add Dark pit people criticize it, so now he don't want to take the risk of adding other of his character and getting criticized again. That's just a big theory, maybe there's totally other reason about why Dee isn't playable.

Honestly, that's what I was concerned about..because I really wanted Medusa..even as an Echo Fighter..

Right, but the structure of Persona means there won't be a Persona 5-2. It's a standalone game, where characters might appear in future installments, but Persona 6 is going to have a new cast and a new plot. It's the quintessential JRPG structure. Cave Story doesn't need a sequel, Portal is a perfect duology of games.

I think the thing that rankles people is applying aribritray logic to why they shouldn't be in game. You're allowed to say a character inclusion doesn't suit you, but explaining the rules, and presenting something as an objective truth, behind what is a fundamentally emotional reaction on your part is going to ruffle feathers

Yeah, though they do sometimes have side-games as sequels, like the Persona 4 Arena games for P4 & P3, P4 DAN for P4, and P5 may have one with P5 Scramble.

Nah, if SNK get's a 2nd rep I'm hoping for the SV-001 Metal Slug or Nakoruru. Having their 2nd character be so similar to their first one isn't very interesting.

Yes, because I'm expecting character 5 to be revealed in the announcement trailer for update 6.0. at the same time they release Terry, which is going to be in November, while the Game Awards are in December.

I'd like Athena Asamiya myself..which, now that I think about, her chances aren't that bad considering how many side games she's been the MC of.

I'm expecting that too. If any character is revealed at the Game Awards, it'll be the 7th Character and it'll probably be a big one like Sora or Crash or something and, similarly to Joker's reveal, it'll be one that wouldn't obviously be for Smash until partway through.

 

[DoubleYooToo]

DoomGuy Or slayer, whatever he is called could be an interesting pick. I’d be a little worried about his move set though.
Can’t say I have seen any decent speculations on movesets either.

The best way to pay homage to Doom's gameplay style is to give him extremely fast ground movement speed, low jump height and switchable weapons. Down special switches between shotgun, pistol and plasma rifle, and neutral B fires whichever weapon is equipped. Shotgun's strong at close range but has a lot of spread and damage falloff, pistol is weak but with consistent damage and a fast moving projectile, and plasma rifle is stronger but with a slow moving projectile. All his regular attacks and throws could be based on doom's glory kills and chainsaw attacks, and his final smash would be the BFG. For his up and side specials, maybe the meathook and dash move from doom eternal? maybe he could jump by firing a double barreled shotgun directly down?