Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Nemuresu]

They'd probably give him KOF14 Volcano Star Dunk for the final smash as it fits the "flashy" parameter. Maybe Triple Power Geyser, but like, Ike already basically does that so it'd be kinda lame.

Sakurai went for the most iconic moves with Ryu and Ken (using the Shin Shoryuken and the Shippu Jinrai Kyaku instead of their SFV arts), so I expect him to do the same for Terry.

 

[Wunderwaft]

If we were to get a beat em up character I'd prefer Abobo tbh

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I don't want Tracer either, and I would also prefer her to be an assist trophy.

I really think you're missing the point here.

I'm just going to leave it at that.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

To be honest I think River City and Double Dragon are more important when it comes to their respective genre than Guilty Gear when it comes to its own.

Out of all three Double Dragon is definitely the best known.

Again, it comes down to the series I think Arc System Works takes pride in, and Guilty Gear is the clear cut winner here by a wide margin for them. River City's just an acquisition to Arc System Works, whereas Guilty Gear is their defining franchise as a company and also one that enjoys worldwide popularity compared to Kunio-Kun which would be the most objectively Japanese only pick we've gotten so far in Smash from a third party. I mean, River City Ransom is such a non-entity in the States that they didn't even include it on the NES Classic when they had put it on the Japanese version. Arc System has only had the Kunio-kun license for a couple of years now and haven't really had the time to put their mark on it. Double Dragon may have a slightly better chance in the grand scheme of things... but I still think it's Guilty Gear for Arc System Works first rep given their affection for the series as its developer.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I don’t even think we’re gonna get DLC Assist trophies at this point anyway. I mean, Joker, Hero and Banjo didn’t come with any

 

[BlueMonk]

I definitely agree that Chosen Undead is solid competition for Ornstein due to main character bias, but I personally would put Ornstein before Artorias and Solaire. Both only appear in the first game and one is behind the DLC paywall. (That said, I would definitely prefer Artorias over any other character since he's cool as hell).



Gwyn would be dope! Ornstein is big but he's not a full on giant. I think if they made him as big as Gabondorf he'd work well enough.

Solaire is popular, but I don't think he can actually do everything the main character can. I think he can only cast miracles, while the Chosen Undead has sorcery, dark magic, and pyromancy available. So Solaire's moveset would be limited.

I do love Solaire though, so maybe the way to go would be to have Chosen Undead with each of his eight skins being eight if the most popular armors? He could dress as Ornstein, Artorias, Solaire, and Maybe even Siegmeyer. That'd be pretty cool.

I think the main edge that Solaire has over the Chosen Undead is that the CU doesn't really have one design or armor set that's pushed as canon, unlike characters like Robin or Corrin. I like your idea with the armors though, that'd be pretty cool. I think that Dark Souls has a pretty good chance of being DLC (maybe even #5?) but it's pretty hard to say what character Sakurai would go with, there's a lot of choices.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I don’t even think we’re gonna get DLC Assist trophies at this point anyway. I mean, Joker, Hero and Banjo didn’t come with any

I mean, why would we? There's not really a ton of fan demand for them and they'd arguably receive more backlash than praise from a great deal of people at this point for potentially deconfirming even more characters.

I'd much rather them just keep putting all their effort into stages, music, and incredibly unique character additions like they have so far.

 

[StormC]

I really think you're missing the point here.

I'm just going to leave it at that.

This dude's gimmick is talking about characters he doesn't deem "iconic" enough and whether they should be Assist Trophies.

Just search his posts for Joker and how it's somehow his fault Bomberman is an Assist Trophy and Joker is playable.

 

[Deleted member]

I don’t even think we’re gonna get DLC Assist trophies at this point anyway. I mean, Joker, Hero and Banjo didn’t come with any

Considering most of the characters that could've been ATs from Persona 5 and Banjo-Kazooie make appearances on their stages, it shouldn't be too surprising that there won't be any new ATs. Keep in mind the DLC characters don't even get Palutena's Guidances either.

It's a shame tbh. I would've liked for some characters from the franchises in the Fighter Pass like Ryuji or Erik be in as an AT.

 

[KatKit]

Finally, the Top Secret 007 Sakurai is the best idea ever. If we can't have Bond, this is the next best thing.

Right? They could genuinely incorporate 007 stuff (weapons/gadgets) but also make it zany, self referential, and unique. For example, instead of the slapping attack, have Sakurai do something like this:

Or maybe have him look partially awake during his sleeping animation, as a reference to him never getting a break.

My sister even suggested giving him the floaty 'Goldenye knee crouch' animation for a crawl. I think they he can also throw in a couple of moves from his favorite games/movies/etc. to avoid being too close to Bond. Regardless, I'd main the heck out of that character lol. But I think Sakurai is too humble to do something like this.

 

[Deleted member]

This dude's gimmick is talking about characters he doesn't deem "iconic" enough and whether they should be Assist Trophies.

Just search his posts for Joker and how it's somehow his fault Bomberman is an Assist Trophy and Joker is playable.

If he can't handle Joker being in Smash that much he should play another game without Persona or Joker. From what I heard there are a lot of good fighting games out like Guilty Gear for example.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I love beat em ups. I’d be ok with any representative.

Kunio-Kun
I think it’s the most iconic and unique looking (well, among the human characters). Not only that but I think he’s the only one that doesn’t “compete” with another character from his own series to share
The spotlight with, although there’s nothing really wrong with that seeing as we have “Alph” costumes.


Double Dragon:
Both Billy and Jimmy have the exact same build so they could work as alt costumes for each other. Iconic series and feels Nintendo.


Streets of Rage:
My favorite BEU games (unless you count TMNT). Problem is who would they go for? Axel and Blaze are the figureheads of the series, and they have completely different personalities, animations, fighting styles and stats. I’d choose Blaze, she’s probably my fave video game female character.


Battletoads:
I can’t emphasize how much I want these guys in the game, despite me not knowing much about them. I make it as far as the bike level, and that’s all I know about them. Sadly, although not for the majority, Banjo could have taken their spot, assuming we only get one MS character. As to who they’d go for... maybe Rash and Zits as alternate costumes to each other, with Pimple showing up for their specials.


Castle Crashers:
A masterpiece game. And started out in Microsoft. Problem again is... who would they choose? Every alt color in the game has a different skill in Castle Crashers, so unless they make an Omni-Knight who has spells from all 4(/5?) main knights, it’s hard to choose one to represent them all. (But I think Green Knight is the one they give most spotlight to).


River City Girls:
I love them, but can’t see them happening due to the game being extremely new. And... going for them before Kunio is kind of unlikely. I still would be all over this inclusion.


Final Fight:
Personally, the only boring addition. But that’s just because we’ve seen them in like half of Capcom’s fighting games. So they don’t have that super hype factor for me. I still love these games, but for the first time ever, I’d go for more secondary characters like Maki, or Haggar as opposed to the very main ones Cody or Guy.


Anyway, a beat em up character is long overdue. And I’d be extremely happy for almost every relevant choice that I can think of.

 

[IAmGiles]

I think the main edge that Solaire has over the Chosen Undead is that the CU doesn't really have one design or armor set that's pushed as canon, unlike characters like Robin or Corrin. I like your idea with the armors though, that'd be pretty cool. I think that Dark Souls has a pretty good chance of being DLC (maybe even #5?) but it's pretty hard to say what character Sakurai would go with, there's a lot of choices.

Definitely hard to say what Sakurai will do. I hope he recognizes Dark Souls for sure, though. Id be ecstatic about ANY Dark Souls rep lol.

(Solaire's also got that amiibo going for him, so maybe if he got in, they'd make a new batch so we can buy it for a reasonable price instead of $40 on the aftermarket? Lol)

 

[Prince777]

Mooks get all the representation they deserve via Spirits and Assist Trophies.

If you HAD to make a generic Mario enemy playable, the BEST choice would have been the Hammer Bros. They feel slightly more like characters and there's so many different kinds that if you just throw all their moves onto one character(like they did with PP) you'd have a real interesting moveset. Hammers, Fireballs, Boomerangs, Groundstomp lightning, etc.

That's some stretching there to try and qualify the first character in a DLC pack as an "ending".

None of which have playable characters in Smash.

It's not "debunked" until Nintendo says she's not happening, or she or someone in her same situation gets in.

I love Geno, and his game, but honestly, this would be fair for him. Sans has shown that a Mii costume can actually look like a character, instead of looking like a Mii cosplaying as the character. If they gave Geno a new Mii costume that was on the level of the Sans one, I'd be satisfied.

...but of course, a lot of other people wouldn't.

They aren't playable--sure, but they're still each represented in Smash in some way, just like other franchises. Miku is a software just like the ones mentioned, so she still possesses eligibility to be included.

Right? They could genuinely incorporate 007 stuff (weapons/gadgets) but also make it zany, self referential, and unique. For example, instead of the slapping attack, have Sakurai do something like this:

Or maybe have him look partially awake during his sleeping animation, as a reference to him never getting a break.

My sister even suggested giving him the floaty 'Goldenye knee crouch' animation for a crawl. I think they he can also throw in a couple of moves from his favorite games/movies/etc. to avoid being too close to Bond. Regardless, I'd main the heck out of that character lol. But I think Sakurai is too humble to do something like this.

That would be super dope, I doubt Sakurai would include anything pertaining to 007 since it originated as a Novel. It's not incredibly popular in Japan either, though I'm sure Sakurai has entertained the idea at least once before, but ultimately decided to keep it out of Smash as it is of none-video game origin entirely.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

This dude's gimmick is talking about characters he doesn't deem "iconic" enough and whether they should be Assist Trophies.

Just search his posts for Joker and how it's somehow his fault Bomberman is an Assist Trophy and Joker is playable.

I'm aware of that, yet I still wish to try to correct him regardless.

Maybe one of these times it'll get across properly.

Definitely hard to say what Sakurai will do. I hope he recognizes Dark Souls for sure, though. Id be ecstatic about ANY Dark Souls rep lol.

(Solaire's also got that amiibo going for him, so maybe if he got in, they'd make a new batch so we can buy it for a reasonable price instead of $40 on the aftermarket? Lol)

Sakurai definitely knows about Dark Souls. He's written about it in his column and remarked about it in a Q&A during a live stream of his. And that's just what we know really.

For a Namco rep I'd definitely say it's between either Dark Souls or Tales of, with KOS-MOS being a dark horse pick to consider regardless.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I'm aware of that, yet I still wish to try to correct him regardless.

Maybe one of these times it'll get across properly.

Sakurai definitely knows about Dark Souls. He's written about it in his column and remarked about it in a Q&A during a live stream of his.

For a Namco rep I'd definitely say it's between either Dark Souls or Tales of, with KOS-MOS being a dark horse pick to consider regardless.

Would you say Soul Calibur is a possibility re:Namco too?

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Would you say Soul Calibur is a possibility re:Namco too?

I completely spaced that one lol. My bad.

I definitely wouldn't discount it. I still think the major contenders are Tales of or Dark Souls though.

Off the top of my head I'd rank Namco as such:

Tales of = Dark Souls > Soul Calibur = Digimon > Tekken = KOS-MOS

Granted that's without any research at all and just going off of personal opinion, so don't quote me on any of that.

 

[Deleted member]

Definitely hard to say what Sakurai will do. I hope he recognizes Dark Souls for sure, though. Id be ecstatic about ANY Dark Souls rep lol.

(Solaire's also got that amiibo going for him, so maybe if he got in, they'd make a new batch so we can buy it for a reasonable price instead of $40 on the aftermarket? Lol)

Whether if Dark Souls has a Fighter in Smash or not, I could certainly see a Solaire Mii Costume somewhere down the line.

 

[BlueMonk]

I completely spaced that one lol. My bad.

I definitely wouldn't discount it. I still think the major contenders are Tales of or Dark Souls though.

Off the top of my head I'd rank Namco as such:

Tales of = Dark Souls > Soul Calibur = Digimon > Tekken = KOS-MOS

Granted that's without any research at all and just going off of personal opinion, so don't quote me on any of that.

Personally, I think Tekken would be equal to Tales and Dark Souls. I know Sakurai couldn't think of anything for Heihachi back then but it's been years since Smash 4 was originally planned, it's entirely possible he's thought of something by now.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Imo it's Tekken = Tales of >>> Soul Calibur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>anything else

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Personally, I think Tekken would be equal to Tales and Dark Souls. I know Sakurai couldn't think of anything for Heihachi back then but it's been years since Smash 4 was originally planned, it's entirely possible he's thought of something by now.

It's still equally possible he didn't. It took him two games and massive fan demand to finally come up with a way to get Ridley in Smash. That was over the span of around a decade. It's only been a little over half a decade since Sm4sh was planned and Heihachi was thrown to the wayside. It's not a strong point, but he was added to Pac-Man's taunt in between Sm4sh and Ultimate, which might be a soft disconfirmation.

I give Tekken a solid 50/50 depending on if Sakurai can come up with something for a Tekken character. It's incredibly difficult if not impossible to do a near 1:1 conversion of the game's controls and feel a lá Ryu or Terry, so he'd need to get inventive to find a way to make Tekken's gameplay pop into Smash. I'm of the camp that the gap between the two is too large to surmount, so Sakurai would go with an easier option that could still appease a lot of people.

Imo it's Tekken = Tales of >>> Soul Calibur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>anything else

I wouldn't underestimate any of Namco's properties. Each of them is strong in their own right.

 

[IAmGiles]

Sakurai definitely knows about Dark Souls. He's written about it in his column and remarked about it in a Q&A during a live stream of his. And that's just what we know really.

For a Namco rep I'd definitely say it's between either Dark Souls or Tales of, with KOS-MOS being a dark horse pick to consider regardless.

Good to see he's played the game! Perhaps it's just my personal bias, but I'm also thinking Dark Souls has a pretty good shot at DLC now!

Out of Tekken, Tales of, etc., I definitely think Dark Souls has had the biggest impact on gaming as a whole in the past 10 years, so it'd definitely feel fitting as an inclusion.

 

[BZL8]

In regards to the best-selling Bandai Namco franchises:

Tekken is Bandai Namco's biggest, with more than 40 million in sales. Second is Dark Souls, which has 25 million sold, Tales has 20 million, Soul Calibur has about 15 million, and Ace Combat 14 million.

 

[IAmGiles]

I've also seen several lists on here if Japanese companies without current representation, and for some reason every single one has forgotten FromSoftware! Dark Souls works as a FromSoft and a Bandai Namco rep, so it's got two things in its favor from that perspective as well.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Good to see he's played the game! Perhaps it's just my personal bias, but I'm also thinking Dark Souls has a pretty good shot at DLC now!

Out of Tekken, Tales of, etc., I definitely think Dark Souls has had the biggest impact on gaming as a whole in the past 10 years, so it'd definitely feel fitting as an inclusion.

I wouldn't underestimate the history Tales of, Tekken, Digimon, and Soul Calibur have had though. Each of them have also each had their own mark on gaming.

In regards to the best-selling Bandai Namco franchises:

Tekken is Bandai Namco's biggest, with more than 40 million in sales. Second is Dark Souls, which has 25 million sold, Tales has 20 million, Soul Calibur has about 15 million, and Ace Combat 14 million.

No one's talked about sales though?

If DLC were decided from a purely sales perspective, Steve would've gotten in over Banjo & Kazooie. I'm sure it factors in some, but it's not the end all be all. This is also discounting extended media from any of these franchises. Tales of has a ton of extended media for example.

I've also seen several lists on here if Japanese companies without current representation, and for some reason every single one has forgotten FromSoftware! Dark Souls works as a FromSoft and a Bandai Namco rep, so it's got two things in its favor from that perspective as well.

If anything, being a rep from two companies is a bad thing since it means more legal hurdles to jump through...

Granted, the hurdles for Dark Souls in Smash are less than say, Hero or Sora, but there's still the fact that extra steps are required if a Dark Souls character were to get into Smash.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Personally, I think Tekken would be equal to Tales and Dark Souls. I know Sakurai couldn't think of anything for Heihachi back then but it's been years since Smash 4 was originally planned, it's entirely possible he's thought of something by now.

When the project plan for Smash 4 was in motion I believe it was before the release of Playstation All-Stars and Street fighter x Tekken. Both of these games had Heihachi in a 2D environment. 7 years have passed since the project plan and since then Sakurai has developed three fighting game based characters in Smash and we had Heihachi appear in two 2D fighting games. There certainly is a possibility that Sakurai might have had a change of heart and found a way to incorporate Heihachi faithfully in Smash.

 

[BZL8]

No one's talked about sales though?

If DLC were decided from a purely sales perspective, Steve would've gotten in over Banjo & Kazooie. I'm sure it factors in some, but it's not the end all be all. This is also discounting extended media from any of these franchises. Tales of has a ton of extended media for example.

Of course. I brought up the sales figures just because people were trying to gauge what Bamco's biggest franchises are and to add to discussion.

 

[TheYungLink]

I definitely would never discount Dark Souls when it comes to a Bandai Namco representative. The game is one of the all-time greats and it has been incredibly influential the past 8 years. Dark Souls has both prestige and notoriety going for it.

 

[Nemuresu]

It's still equally possible he didn't. It took him two games and massive fan demand to finally come up with a way to get Ridley in Smash. That was over the span of around a decade. It's only been a little over half a decade for Heihachi.

I give Tekken a solid 50/50 depending on if Sakurai can come up with something for a Tekken character. It's incredibly difficult if not impossible to do a near 1:1 conversion of the game's controls a lá Ryu or Terry, so he'd need to get inventive to find a way to make Tekken's gameplay pop into Smash. I'm of the camp that the gap between the two is too large to surmount, so Sakurai would go with an easier option that could still appease a lot of people.

I wouldn't underestimate any of Namco's properties. Each of them is strong in their own right.

Ridley waited around 12 to 13 years for Sakurai to finally give him a chance. People didn't even consider Heihachi as something possible until fan rules about third-party characters started to wear off during Smash 4's DLC cycle, and that was just four years ago.

Plus, Street Fighter X Tekken proves that these 3D fighters can work in a 2.5D environment, so it's not like it's impossible to adapt these characters into different gameplays.

 

[Idon]

I definitely would never discount Dark Souls when it comes to a Bandai Namco representative. The game is one of the all-time greats and it has been incredibly influential the past 8 years. Dark Souls has both prestige and notoriety going for it.

Too much notoriety, in fact.

If I hear "The Dark Souls of X" one more time, I'm going to go mad.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Of course. I brought up the sales figures just because people were trying to gauge what Bamco's biggest franchises are and to add to discussion.

Ah. My bad for misinterpreting you then. Carry on.

Ridley waited around 12 to 13 years for Sakurai to finally give him a chance. People didn't even consider Heihachi as something possible until fan rules about third-party characters started to wear off during Smash 4's DLC cycle, and that was just four years ago.

Plus, Street Fighter X Tekken proves that these 3D fighters can work in a 2.5D environment, so it's not like it's impossible to adapt these characters into different gameplays.

Except Street Fighter X Tekken took Tekken characters and move them into a 2.5D, Street Fighter-esque environment, similar to how Tekken x Street Fighter (RIP) was going to take Street Fighter characters and move them into a 3D, Tekken-esque environment. If Tekken is to be included in Smash, it's going to be inspired by the original, 3D game, not an attempt to alter it and force it into 2D like SFxT or PASBR. That's where the difficulty lies.

The point about Ridley was to say that Sakurai can take time to change his mind on characters, and this can be exacerbated by fan demand such as that towards Ridley. If Sakurai is stumped and doesn't have a large driving factor to make it work, I doubt he'd pound his head against a wall to figure it out when he could just go for an easier option to a relatively same effect.

 

[IAmGiles]

Too much notoriety, in fact.

If I hear "The Dark Souls of X" one more time, I'm going to go mad.

Which thread would you say is the "Dark Souls of SmashBoards?"

 

[Wunderwaft]

Which thread would you say is the "Dark Souls of SmashBoards?

Ridley threads during Smash 4

 

[BZL8]

Too much notoriety, in fact.

If I hear "The Dark Souls of X" one more time, I'm going to go mad.

I always found it fascinating how people compare a difficult game to Dark Souls nowadays. That really is a testament to how big of an impact the series left.

 

[Nemuresu]

Ah. My bad for misinterpreting you then. Carry on.

Except Street Fighter X Tekken took Tekken characters and move them into a 2.5D, Street Fighter-esque environment, similar to how Tekken x Street Fighter (RIP) was going to take Street Fighter characters and move them into a 3D, Tekken-esque environment. If Tekken is to be included in Smash, it's going to be inspired by the original, 3D game, not an attempt to alter it and force it into 2D like SFxT or PASBR. That's where the difficulty lies.

The point about Ridley was to say that Sakurai can take time to change his mind on characters, and this can be exacerbated by fan demand such as that towards Ridley. If Sakurai is stumped and doesn't have a large driving factor to make it work, I doubt he'd pound his head against a wall to figure it out when he could just go for an easier option to a relatively same effect.

You're implying that Terry exists to compensate for the lack of a Tekken character at all, which is an incredibly erroneous thing to say coming from you. Sakurai has already said in the past that he's familiar with the King of Fighters, not to mention, Nintendo and SNK have already collaborated in the past, since SNK Heroines had a strange exclusivity deal where the Switch would be the only one to get physical copies (if you wanted PS4 version in that format, you had to pay for a pricey collectors edition), NISA mentioned that both companies wanted to team up, and I believe that last deal was most important when deciding to have Terry in Smash, as Sakurai has already explained that Nintendo chose all the DLC and he just told them which ones were doable and which ones weren't.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

Personally I hope we don't get a Tekken rep as I want to see other Namco series get the Smash push like Tales or Xenosaga.

 

[RoboFist]

Just gotta wait for VergeBen to speak up is all. Once he says who it is its over then.

Heh.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I wouldn't underestimate any of Namco's properties. Each of them is strong in their own right.

I think the rest of them have severe disadvantages that prevent them from being considered.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

You're implying that Terry exists to compensate for the lack of a Tekken character at all, which is an incredibly erroneous thing to say coming from you. Sakurai has already said in the past that he's familiar with the King of Fighters, not to mention, Nintendo and SNK have already collaborated in the past, since SNK Heroines had a strange exclusivity deal where the Switch would be the only one to get physical copies (if you wanted PS4 version in that format, you had to pay for a pricey collectors edition), NISA mentioned that both companies wanted to team up, and I believe that last deal was most important when deciding to have Terry in Smash, as Sakurai has already explained that Nintendo chose all the DLC and he just told them which ones were doable and which ones weren't.

Except I didn't say that at all. I was talking about other Namco characters, and you misconstrued my point. I'm not one to imply anything since that's a failure on me for not getting my point across clearly. If I have a point to make, I'll say it outright.

I was just saying it would be difficult to adapt Tekken's 3D gameplay to Smash unlike Street Fighter or King of Fighters, both of which are 2D fighting games. So, instead of including Tekken, he'd include Tales of, which is a pretty easy conversion, or Dark Souls, which could have some unique integration into Smash, or another series.

I think the rest of them have severe disadvantages that prevent them from being considered.

Such as?

A claim like that begs to be backed up.

 

[BZL8]

I think the rest of them have severe disadvantages that prevent them from being considered.

Curious to wonder why you didn't consider Dark Souls, considering it is one of Bamco's biggest, if not the biggest non-Tekken franchise.