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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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StormC

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What gives you that impression?
Koei-Tecmo is the biggest Japanese third party not yet in Smash and has worked with Nintendo on many occasions, Hayabusa is a classic character with a legacy going back to the NES that appears in all their crossovers, and just as a point of curiosity, they have just posted this to celebrate the anniversary of their modern reboot:



Likely? Yes.

Positively definitely happening? No.

There's a good couple of characters contending for that final spot.
Did I need more adjectives to show the tongue-in-cheek nature of the post or what?
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
So has everyone come to terms with the fact that Ryu Hayabusa will absolutely positively definitely be the final character

of season 1?
Well, not really, but if he was, he's in a good position where a good amount of people wouldn't really throw a huge fit over him being 1 of the last characters in Smash because of the announcement of more DLC characters after the Fighter Pass. Of course, that won't stop those ******** about it anyways, but it will get a lot of people to warm up on it and like his inclusion to Smash at least.

That said, I am rooting more for a Dynasty Warriors character as last character for this Fighter Pass than Hayabusa currently. Both Hayabusa and someone like Zhao Yun or Lu Bu will be equally exciting to me, but Dynasty Warriors makes me want to get behind it a bit more currently because it's a series people aren't expecting to see in Smash for various reasons.
 

StormC

Smash Hero
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I think a good Hayabusa trailer would win people over. A lot of outsiders I feel view him as "that ninja guy who jumps around and swings his sword" and have no idea of his various weapons, attacks, and magic across the games. A great trailer will sell fence sitters on the character for sure.
 
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BZL8

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I think a good Hayabusa trailer would win people over. A lot of outsiders I feel view him as "that ninja guy who jumps around and swings his sword" and have no idea of his various weapons, attacks, and magic across the games. A great trailer will sell fence sitters on the character for sure.
You can argue that there was a similar pre-reveal reception to a Dragon Quest rep prior to the Hero being fully unveiled. For better or worse, the RNG and Command Selection really shut down a lot of naysayers regarding the implementation of a potential moveset.
 
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kaithehedgefox

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 11, 2017
Messages
1,454
So has everyone come to terms with the fact that Ryu Hayabusa will absolutely positively definitely be the final character

of season 1?
I hope Ryu Hayabusa is the next DLC fighter he would be another pleasing to me. If that's the case, then I the final results of pleasings to heartbreakers in the first fighters pass would be 4-1.
 

AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 5, 2018
Messages
496
I think a good Hayabusa trailer would win people over. A lot of outsiders I feel view him as "that ninja guy who jumps around and swings his sword" and have no idea of his various weapons, attacks, and magic across the games. A great trailer will sell fence sitters on the character for sure.
While I do admit people who say Hayabusa will just be like Greninja or Sheik are extremely ignorant, Hero and Joker had great trailers and people still complain saying they're clones of other characters, or how niche they are.
 

DarthEnderX

Smash Hero
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Nov 10, 2014
Messages
7,684
I would expect that Arc System Works would prefer Guilty Gear in Smash if they're including a character.
Hah! I'm sure they would!

But no. It's always been Kunio.

This user has continually been pushing an anti-Joker sentiment for months now and has gone as far as to go into the Joker thread to promote it while also claiming that Arthur from Ghost N' Goblins deserves it more
I mean...he does.

Also, this is the first time I'm hearing about ArcSys owning River City. I thought some other company owned that series, but I guess I was wrong about that.
You weren't. Technos owned it. But ArcSys bought Technos a few years ago.

The only other viable candidate I could see is Billy & Jimmy Lee from Double Dragon, another franchise that is owned by ArcSys now funnily enough.
Kunio is still the better pick. While Double Dragon was bigger in NA, Kunio has a much more varied and fun moveset, he has WAY more games(though, a lot of them didn't get NA releases), and the River City games are also just better than the Double Dragon games.

Not to mention, Kunio has the historical cache, as the first Kunio game(Renegade) is pretty much the start of the "side scrolling beating up thugs in the street" genre. I mean, if you look at the arcade version, that game is just straight up single player Double Dragon. Right down the character animations.

He also might have pioneered the whole "Let's take our action game character, and put him in a bunch of sports spinoffs!" thing that's, like, half of Mario's library these days. :p

I really want Billy and Jimmy Lee in the game, for the simple reason that the Double Dragon Theme song would be awesome to fight to.
You can still get that with Kunio, as that theme regularly shows up in the River City games.

If Billy and Jimmy were to be in Smash, would 1 of them be an alt or an echo fighter?
They are identical in almost all of their games, so an Alt would seem more likely.

More on topic, my sister is a huge GoldenEye fan and asked how possible it'd be if Smash had a bootleg James Bond (named 'Top Secret') but with Sakurai's likeness as the very last DLC character for the game for free. I laughed at how silly it sounded, but then I realized that'd low-key be great.
It's funny, because the original Smash Bros. had the proximity mine from GoldenEye in it. But the mine was redesigned in later games to remove the reference.

Out of all three Double Dragon is definitely the best known.
In the West. It's definitely not the more popular one in Japan.

What if in Smash we had Kunio and he came with alts of Riki, Kyoko, and Misako?
Well, Kunio and Riki traditionally play the same in a lot of their games, so I could see him as an alt/echo. But Kyoko and Misako have completely different moves than Kunio and Riki, so I'm not sure they'd do that.

If we were to get a beat em up character I'd prefer Abobo tbh
That would be fun, but you know they go protags first.

Still, Abobo has appeared in multiple River City games, so I could easily see him getting a Spirit. Fighting Donkey Kong, while the Double Dragon theme plays. Oh yeah.

Again, it comes down to the series I think Arc System Works takes pride in
I think it comes down to who Nintendo wants more. And River City has a much bigger history with Nintendo, stretching from the NES, to today.

Nintendo: "We want Kunio in Smash."
ArcSys: "We'd rather it was Sol."
Nintendo: "Do you want to be in Smash or not?"
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
Koei-Tecmo is the biggest Japanese third party not yet in Smash and has worked with Nintendo on many occasions, Hayabusa is a classic character with a legacy going back to the NES that appears in all their crossovers, and just as a point of curiosity, they have just posted this to celebrate the anniversary of their modern reboot:

[big image saying Ninja Gaiden 15th Anniversary]
Just for context to those who haven't seen it, that was for DoA 6 with Momiji being announced for DLC.
I think a good Hayabusa trailer would win people over. A lot of outsiders I feel view him as "that ninja guy who jumps around and swings his sword" and have no idea of his various weapons, attacks, and magic across the games. A great trailer will sell fence sitters on the character for sure.
Oh yeah it can definitely work. A good enough trailer can make people get behind a character. He's got a lot of sick looking moves that'd work well in Smash, and if the Izuna Drop, Art of the Inferno, Flying Swallow, and Obliteration Technique are in his moveset, they'd have to show off how sick they look in Smash.
 

BZL8

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I think it comes down to who Nintendo wants more. And River City has a much bigger history with Nintendo, stretching from the NES, to today.

Nintendo: "We want Kunio in Smash."
ArcSys: "We'd rather it was Sol."
Nintendo: "Do you want to be in Smash or not?"
If history with Nintendo was a major factor, we would have most likely gotten a mainline SMT rep instead of a Persona rep. And Sol is basically the face of ArcSys like Terry is to SNK; if we're getting an ArcSys rep, Sol is getting in first.

So far, the first representative from a debuting third-party company is always the character that is either the most popular and/or the face of the company (Snake for Konami, Sonic for Sega, Mega-Man for Capcom, Pac-Man for Bamco, Cloud for Square-Enix, Joker for Atlus, Terry for SNK)
 

Darkmoone1

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So has everyone come to terms with the fact that Ryu Hayabusa will absolutely positively definitely be the final character

of season 1?
No. A lot more lines up with the Doom Slayer/Doom Guy over Hayabusa in terms of the events happening this year. That's not to say Hayabusa doesn't have a chance, but I am much, much more confident in Doom getting a rep over Hayabusa.
 

Idon

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Now hold on folks, before we start talking about "locks" let me make the case for Dante from the Devil May Cry TM series.

>Director says before Dante can make it to Smash, fans should ask for DMC on Switch
>A few months later, DMC1 releases on Switch
>A few months after that, DMC2 releases on Switch
>DMC3, Dante's most popular game and the basis for the majority of the franchise is inevitablely going to happen soon.
>DMC5 just won TGS's "Best Action Game" award and is likely to at least be nominated
>DMC is the archetypal action game, and representative of the genre, arguably even moreso than Bayonetta
>Despite the directors denying his involvement, we have already shown that higher-ups can deny claims to Smash and then renege on them
>Capcom hasn't had another DLC character despite both SEGA and Square Enix double dipping
>DMC4 retained popularity for a decade and sold extremely well, with DMC5 surpassing even that and becoming the best selling game in the series

With all this in mind, Dante will absolutely, positively, DEFINITELY, be the final character
My logic is impeccable and my reasoning is infallible.
theres no debate.gif


No, I do not accept constructive criticism.
 
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DarthEnderX

Smash Hero
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So far, the first representative from a debuting third-party company is always the character that is either the most popular and/or the face of the company (Snake for Konami, Sonic for Sega, Mega-Man for Capcom, Pac-Man for Bamco, Cloud for Square-Enix, Joker for Atlus, Terry for SNK)
You say that, but at the point Mega Man got into Smash, he was at, like, his lowest point in Capcom's history.
 

BZL8

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You say that, but at the point Mega Man got into Smash, he was at, like, his lowest point in Capcom's history.
Doesn't matter. Sonic 06 and Sonic Unleashed didn't stop Sonic from being the face of Sega, and even if his series ain't doing well now, Sega will still keep him as the face of the company.
 

DaybreakHorizon

The guy who predicted Sora as Fighter 11
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Did I need more adjectives to show the tongue-in-cheek nature of the post or what?
Look dude. I read the post, took it at face value, and responded as such. Internet text is bad at conveying tone. Multiple other people took the post at face value, so I don't understand why you singled me out but whatever. No hard feelings here.

Next time maybe use font altercation (bold, italics, underline), picture memes, or emotes to convey a less serious tone.
 

Nquoid

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I genuinely cannot envision a world in which Sakurai skips over Tekken, Soul Calibur, Souls, Tales of and Tamagotchi and goes "Yes, Agumon is the next best character that Bandai Namco have to put into Smash"

There's too much competition and just not enough going on in the games department to make me think Digimon can stand-up against Tekken 3, Soul Calibur 2, Dark Souls and Tales of Symphonia.
 

StormC

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Look dude. I read the post, took it at face value, and responded as such. Internet text is bad at conveying tone. Multiple other people took the post at face value, so I don't understand why you singled me out but whatever. No hard feelings here.

Next time maybe use font altercation (bold, italics, underline), picture memes, or emotes to convey a less serious tone.
I just wanted to make sure it was clear since I know how seriously you take this stuff!

Okay, how about this.

RYU HAYABUSA IS THE LAST CHARACTER ON THE PASS OR ELSE I WILL

continue to not speculate about smash anymore because it became clear after sans undertale I don't know what the **** they're gonna do
 
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shinhed-echi

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In the spirit of discussion about Ryu and Doomguy, gonna share a little something I felt like drawing. Particularly, my thoughts during the last direct.

Btw I’m still hyped about Terry. And both Ryu Hayabusa and Doomguy (as well as Shantae) are my next most wanted 3rd party characters.

Personally, I can’t quite decide over who will come next. Both have a lot going for them.
 

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perfectchaos83

Smash Champion
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I mean, I think Hero in general begs to differ.
For E3, the trailer for Hero was literally followed by another trailer for DQ11S. Nintendo is at the very least clearly aware of game releases and it'd make sense from a business standpoint to cross-promote if they were related.
DQXI was soft announced for Switch back in 2015 (First Switch game announced in fact). It was formerly announced sometime before the February direct (Not sure when). Hero was Announced in June and released at the end of July. DQXIS will be released near the end of this month. Note that none of these dates line up with each other, which is my point. Yes, DQXI info was given immediately following his Smash announcement, but besides a date, it really had no new info (besides a release date) as it was a re-airing of the trailer SE aired the night before.
 

DaybreakHorizon

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I just wanted to make sure it was clear since I know how seriously you take this stuff!

Okay, how about this.

RYU HAYABUSA IS THE LAST CHARACTER ON THE PASS OR ELSE I WILL

continue to not speculate about smash anymore because it became clear after sans undertale I don't know what the **** they're gonna do
To be honest I don't take any of this all that seriously. At the end of the day we're speculating which characters will get into funny fighting party game. Compared to many things in my life, this isn't serious at all.

That's my secret. I don't really have anything to prove. I got Joker so I'm happy. If I somehow get Sora I'll never ask for anything again. It's just that if I see something stupid I'll call it stupid. Does it make me popular? No. Not at all.

But in an odd way I hope to inspire people here to think from a more objective standpoint. I was always taught to present strong arguments, and I want to see people here do the same. That's why I approach speculation from a more "serious" angle.

Maybe instead of a character essay I should do a writing crash course for speculation lol. Would any of you be interested in that?
 
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Nquoid

Smash Ace
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Maybe instead of a character essay I should do a writing crash course for speculation lol. Would any of you be interested in that?
That honestly sounds like my worst nightmare. A manifesto on how to speculate properly? No thank you.

Even though it does get heated around here occasionally, for the most part we're able to actually have interesting debate. It's only when someone comes through feeling they have a point to prove that things go off the rails.
 

DevaAshera

Smash Champion
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Okay, I want to jump in on the 16 character slots game! I don't necessarily think that there will be more season/fighter passes. They can sell this one by one, so I just make a list of sixteen instead of grouping it into season passes. Also, the order isn't necessarily the order in which I think they will add these characters.

1. Piranha Plant (Super Mario / Nintendo)
2. Joker (Persona / Sega-Atlus)
3. Hero (Dragon Quest / Square Enix)
4. Banjo & Kazooie (Banjo-Kazooie / Microsoft)
5. Terry (Fatal Fury / SNK)
6. Doom Slayer (DOOM / iD-Bethesda)
7. Geno (Super Mario RPG / Square Enix)
8. Professor Layton (Professor Layton / Level-5)
9. Jill Valentine (Resident Evil / Capcom)
10. Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong / Nintendo)
11. Crash (Crash Bandicoot / Activision)
12. Shantae (Shantae / WayForward)
13. Bandana Waddle Dee (Kirby / Nintendo)
14. Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden / Koei Tecmo)
15. Rayman (Rayman / Ubisoft)
16. Waluigi (Super Mario / Nintendo)

This is a "best case scenario". Sakurai will add some of the most asked first party characters, third party characters, spirit upgrades, the most vocal assist trophy upgrade, new companies (Level-5, iD/Bethesda, Activision, WayForward, Koei Tecmo, Ubisoft), adds the first indie character and adds some more obscure ones (Geno/Prof. Layton/Shantae/Ryu Hayabusa) which are famous enough to come to Smash.
I feel like jumping on this too..

1. Piranha Plant (Super Mario / Nintendo)
2. Joker (Persona / Sega-Atlus)
3. Hero (Dragon Quest / Square Enix)
4. Banjo & Kazooie (Banjo-Kazooie / Microsoft)
5. Terry (Fatal Fury / SNK)
6. Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden / Koei Tecmo)
7. Sora (Kingdom Hearts / Disney)
8. Geno (Super Mario RPG / Square Enix)
9. Rex & Pyra (Xenoblade Chronicles 2 / MonolithSoft)
10. Lloyd Irving (Tales of Symphonia / Namco Bandai)
11. Dante (Devil May Cry / Capcom)
12. Byleth (Fire Emblem: Three Houses / Intelligent Systems)
13. 2B (NieR Automata / Square-Enix)
14. Crash Bandicoot (Crash Bandicoot / Activision)
15. Shantae (Shantae / WayForward)
16. Monster Hunter (Monster Hunter / Capcom)
 
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EricTheGamerman

Smash Master
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3,197
To be honest I don't take any of this all that seriously. At the end of the day we're speculating which characters will get into funny fighting party game. Compared to many things in my life, this isn't serious at all.

That's my secret. I don't really have anything to prove. I got Joker so I'm happy. If I somehow get Sora I'll never ask for anything again. It's just that if I see something stupid I'll call it stupid. Does it make me popular? No. Not at all.

But in an odd way I hope to inspire people here to think from a more objective standpoint. I was always taught to present strong arguments, and I want to see people here do the same. That's why I approach speculation from a more "serious" angle.

Maybe instead of a character essay I should do a writing crash course for speculation lol. Would any of you be interested in that?
I’m just down for more of your essays in whatever form we can get them lol.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I've been thinking a bit. Usually, when characters get leaked, they happen to be around the time before a direct and whatnot. The only 2 characters who supposedly didn't get leaked ahead of time were K Rool and Joker (not sure about Richter though since I wasn't very involved in the speculation scene around that time). While 1 was revealed in a Direct, the other was revealed at the Game Awards which isn't a Direct and caught a lot of people off guard.

I bring this up because none of the videos on DLC fighters and updates ended up getting leaked. I don't recall there being any leakers claiming that a video on a specific character will come at a certain date nor do they say anything about what'll be shown in them. For example, no one was saying that Sans was going to be a Mii Costume or that the costumes coming with Hero were going to be Dragon Quest related costumes only. I wonder why these videos in particular don't get leaked ahead of time because the presentation on Terry and 6.0.0 could theoretically have a potential Smash reveal not be spoiled by leaks.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I've been thinking a bit. Usually, when characters get leaked, they happen to be around the time before a direct and whatnot. The only 2 characters who supposedly didn't get leaked ahead of time were K Rool and Joker (not sure about Richter though since I wasn't very involved in the speculation scene around that time). While 1 was revealed in a Direct, the other was revealed at the Game Awards which isn't a Direct and caught a lot of people off guard.

I bring this up because none of the videos on DLC fighters and updates ended up getting leaked. I don't recall there being any leakers claiming that a video on a specific character will come at a certain date nor do they say anything about what'll be shown in them. For example, no one was saying that Sans was going to be a Mii Costume or that the costumes coming with Hero were going to be Dragon Quest related costumes only. I wonder why these videos in particular don't get leaked ahead of time because the presentation on Terry and 6.0.0 could theoretically have a potential Smash reveal not be spoiled by leaks.
Because Hero's was uploaded as a video and not a stream and if i'm correct we don't usually get videos leaked ahead of time right? Still though Banjo's case was curious since it was technically apart of the direct.
 

DrifloonEmpire

Smash Champion
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Messages
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Katamari sadly I can't see translating well to playable either, though I'd love to be proven wrong. I think the Prince would make a great AT.
PizzaDudeManGuy made a fantastic moveset video for The Prince that translates the Katamari gameplay very nicely and makes for a very unique gimmick as well! His Katamari would always be in front of him as well, making for a very interesting hitbox. It seems like the kind of unusual character design that Sakurai would love to tackle.

I know I really push for the Prince to be in the game but I do honestly think he has way more to offer than Heihachi or Lloyd, even if he isn't as big.
 
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GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
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10,169
I've been thinking a bit. Usually, when characters get leaked, they happen to be around the time before a direct and whatnot. The only 2 characters who supposedly didn't get leaked ahead of time were K Rool and Joker (not sure about Richter though since I wasn't very involved in the speculation scene around that time). While 1 was revealed in a Direct, the other was revealed at the Game Awards which isn't a Direct and caught a lot of people off guard.

I bring this up because none of the videos on DLC fighters and updates ended up getting leaked. I don't recall there being any leakers claiming that a video on a specific character will come at a certain date nor do they say anything about what'll be shown in them. For example, no one was saying that Sans was going to be a Mii Costume or that the costumes coming with Hero were going to be Dragon Quest related costumes only. I wonder why these videos in particular don't get leaked ahead of time because the presentation on Terry and 6.0.0 could theoretically have a potential Smash reveal not be spoiled by leaks.
Richter, Chrom, Dark Samus didn't get leaked. Though allegedly K. Rool was floating around, just from unreliable sources.

PizzaDudeManGuy made a fantastic moveset video for The Prince that translates the Katamari gameplay very nicely and makes for a very unique gimmick as well! His Katamari would always be in front of him as well, making for a very interesting hitbox.

I know I really push for the Prince to be in the game but I do honestly think he has way more to offer than Heihachi or Lloyd, even if he isn't as big.
I'll check it out then!
 

perfectchaos83

Smash Champion
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Wasn't the rough draft to K. Rool's trailer leaked? Something about a "heroes vs. villains" theme.
Heroes vs Villains was around for a while. First cropping up from a cryptic imgur leak. loz18 also mentioned something about Heroes vs Villains. It's too vague to really say it was leaked, imo.
 

RoboFist

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PizzaDudeManGuy made a fantastic moveset video for The Prince that translates the Katamari gameplay very nicely and makes for a very unique gimmick as well! His Katamari would always be in front of him as well, making for a very interesting hitbox. It seems like the kind of unusual character design that Sakurai would love to tackle.

I know I really push for the Prince to be in the game but I do honestly think he has way more to offer than Heihachi or Lloyd, even if he isn't as big.
It's characters like The Prince that kinda make me miss the more Wild West days of base roster speculation haha. Because you're right, a Katamari Damacy rep would be such a Sakurai pick. Something so out of left field, not necessarily a character that anyone was clamoring for, but would end up being a completely unique and fun character anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I'm beyond excited that we're getting more DLC after the Pass (and a lot of evidence is pointing to Nintendo supporting Ultimate for a long time), but for now anyway, it looks as if we'll be getting the faces of third-party companies. Which is perfectly fine (a lot of these icons would be a blast to play as)! Nintendo has been knocking it out of the park with their choices, and I love how Sakurai seems like he's genuinely enjoying himself this time around. Still, I miss those bonkers, balls-to-the-wall "Sakurai picks" like Ice Climbers, Pokemon Trainer, Duck Hunt, and Piranha Plant.

Not to say that Sakurai can't give Nintendo's choices unique and interesting playstyles (you can definitely tell he had fun developing Joker and Hero). But man, I'd love to get another crazy, borderline "joke" character like The Prince haha.
 
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Lenidem

Smash Lord
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On the contrary, I really hope that we won't have anymore of those. Except Mr Game & Watch. And Wii Fit Trainer. And Rob. And Pokémon Trainer. Hum... Makes me wonder, what is a 'Sakurai pick', exactly?
 

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鉄腕
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So has everyone come to terms with the fact that Ryu Hayabusa will absolutely positively definitely be the final character

of season 1?
He's probably the easiest to place a bet on right now, given history with Nintendo/rumors, but is nowhere near definite. If IamShifty wasn't still adamant after the SNK leak + Verg initially claiming Hero as CP1, there wouldn't be much steam in the bubble that is the Smash community.

The August 4chan rumor is also something to keep in mind at least in regards to the timing and it's convenience.
 

NoOtherPersona

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He's probably the easiest to place a bet on right now, given history with Nintendo/rumors, but is nowhere near definite. If IamShifty wasn't still adamant after the SNK leak + Verg initially claiming Hero as CP1, there wouldn't be much steam in the bubble that is the Smash community.

The August 4chan rumor is also something to keep in mind at least in regards to the timing and it's convenience.
Has iamShifty said anything in regards to smash after Terry dropped cuz it seems he's been dead silent (double post my bad)
 
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鉄腕
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Has iamShifty said anything in regards to smash after Terry dropped cuz it seems he's been dead silent
Only after the SNK Leak happened, though before anything was confirmed at that point.

We'll just have to wait until November (most likely) or until another Town Gossip says something.

General PSA: Whether or not their claims are true or not, don't go after them. It's obvious based on their YT channel that rumors and speculation are secondary priorities. Be cool.
 

NoOtherPersona

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Only after the SNK Leak happened, though before anything was confirmed at that point.

We'll just have to wait until November (most likely) or until another Town Gossip says something.

General PSA: Whether or not their claims are true or not, don't go after them. It's obvious based on their YT channel that rumors and speculation are secondary priorities. Be cool.
I'm not the type to harass someone for being wrong i'll leave that to the crazies in the smash community
 
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