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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Louie G.

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Messages
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Location
Rhythm Heaven
You can tell how toxic the fanbase of a character is by their reaction to the character getting disconfirmed as an AT or Mii Costume and I think it's a very interesting exercise to do.
Pretty funny how so many people trashed Undertale fans, but meanwhile Sans' Mii costume was met with such positivity because most of them were just happy to have ANY content in the game. I know I am. But yeah, that stands out as interesting to me, I thought Undertale fans were "toxic".... lmao.
__________

Alright hey everyone! Let me try and predict our hypothetical "16 characters", I'm honestly kinda stumped past like, about 5 or so more but we'll see what I can come up with.

Fighter Pass 1
Joker
Hero
Banjo & Kazooie
Terry Bogard
Jill Valentine

Fighter Pass 2
Geno
Doom Slayer
Arle Nadja
Ryu Hayabusa
Dante

Fighter Pass 3
Travis Touchdown
Shantae
Lloyd Irving
Rayman
Uhhhhhh...

Chorus Kids :p

I wouldn't be thrilled about all of these characters but see many of them as the big names/franchises left to add. Only ones I'm feeling particularly confident in right now are Resident Evil, Geno, Doom and Puyo. Maybe Travis too since Sakurai threw Toby a bone, after all this time you would think that Suda will finally get his cut. Would also have liked more Nintendo characters but it is what it is. Almost added Steve but I'm pretty adamant that Minecraft content would come in other forms than a character.
 
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Renjamin

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
46
Everyone else is doing it so I might as well

Fighter Pass 1

Joker
Hero
Banjo & Kazooie
Terry Bogard
Gooigi

Fighter Pass 2

Gooigi
Gooigi
Gooigi
Gooigi
Gooigi

Fighter Pass 3

Gooigi
Gooigi
Gooigi
Gooigi
Gooigi

Bonus Echo Fighter

Yellow Gooigi
 

Poopyhead

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
60
My only realistic hopes are Lloyd & any female character. I can't think of whole new waves of DLC, but I do think Sora will get in personally
 

Smashoperatingbuddy123

Smash Legend
Joined
Jul 16, 2013
Messages
10,909
16 character threoy

:ultpiranha:
:ultjoker:
:ulthero:
:ultbanjokazooie:
Terry
Doomguy
Ryu Hayabusa
Crash bandicoot
Geno
Capcom rep (monster hunter, Phoenix Wright, resident evil, Dante, etc.)
Heihachi or Lloyd (tamco rep)
Cuphead
Shantae
Travis touchdown
Sora

The last one is for a big thank to the fans support in smash from Sakurai and that’s master chief
 

BlazGreen

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
371
I'll take a stab at the three season thing. I think Third parties will still take up most of the remaining slots but I think Sakurai will throw a bone to a couple of first party fan requests. This is a mixture of what I want and what I expect but thankfully, there's a lot of overlap between the two. As for the "rules" we've been following, my personal belief is that Spirits and Mii costumes are fair game but I'm still uncertain about AT's.

S1
:ultjoker:
:ulthero:
:ultbanjokazooie:
Terry
Doomguy

Doomguy: Not only is he highly requested but the Doom universe is so unlike anything else in Smash that I think it'll leave a lasting impression

S2
Crash
Rex
Yoshimitsu
Jill Valentine
Sora

Crash: Ticks all the boxes. He's popular worldwide, relevant while also having a long history and has enough abilities to make a moveset out of. Not to mention it would amazing to see Snake, Cloud and Crash: three icons of the PS1 in Smash.
Rex: Now that DK and Metroid finally got more characters, Xenoblade feels like the last first party IP that's lacking in characters. Xenoblade DE actually makes picking a Xeno rep difficult since it puts Xenoblade 1 characters back into contention. You could make a case for Elma, Fiora, Melia, KOS-MOS or even Lora & Jin but Rex seems like a safe bet especially with Sakurai's comments about him pre-release.
Yoshimitsu: I've seen people asking for Heihachi and Nightmare to represent Namco 3D fighters but why not a character that represents both Tekken and Soul Calibur? He might not be the main character of either series but he's been a staple of both for years. His moveset is also very unique for a sword fighter with his helicopter and pogo stances as well as teleports and other gimmicks that could translate better to Smash than Hei and Nightmare.
Jill Valentine: RE is one of the few big Japanese IP's still not in Smash. I chose Jill as not only is RE3make heavily rumoured to be announced within the next few months but this DLC is currently a sausage fest.
Sora: Disney may prove to be a roadblock but if anyone can overcome it, it's Sakurai. From what I've seen Sora is by far the most requested character for this game worldwide and I feel like Sakurai would try his absolute hardest to get him in Smash.

S3
Dixie Kong
Lara Croft
Dante
Master Chief
Geno

Dixie Kong: I was torn between Dixie, Bandanna Dee and Porky as the last first party character. I chose Dixie simply because she's more popular than Porky and I think her potential moveset would be more interesting than Bandanna Dee's
Lara Croft: When I was a kid I always wondered who was more badass, Lara Croft or Samus Aran. What better way to find out than to SETTLE. IT. IN. SMASH! Honestly though, Lara is enough of a gaming icon to make it and they could even give us costumes for new and classic Lara so everyone is happy.
Dante: Has more than enough material to make him a moveset and his flashy gameplay would be great for Smash. I think the whole Bayo fiasco gave the team enough experience that they can now make a combo heavy character without breaking the game.
Master Chief: Of all the characters I've listed, this is the one that would most likely break the internet. At this point Smash would be seen as the ultimate crossover and would likely never be topped. I don't think Sakurai would want to miss that opportunity.
Geno: With Banjo, K. Rool, Ridley and Dixie all accounted for, Geno would be an incredible way to wrap up DLC for this game as he's another "never ever" character.

Honourable Mentions
Rayman
Hayabusa
Bandanna Dee
Travis Touchdown
Dr. Eggman
Porky
Spyro
Amaterasu
 
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Nquoid

Smash Ace
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
584
Pass 1
Joker [Persona/Atlus (Sega)]
Hero [Dragon Quest/Square Enix]
Banjo & Kazooie [Banjo Kazooie/Microsoft]
Terry Bogard [Fatal Fury/SNK]
Ryu Hayabusa [Ninja Gaiden/Koei Tecmo]

Pass 2
Leon Kennedy [Resident Evil/Capcom]
Heihachi [Tekken/Namco Bandai]
Doom Slayer [Doom/Bethesda]
Tracer [Overwatch/Activision Blizzard]
Ezio Auditore [Assassin's Creed/Ubisoft]

Pass 3
Bill Rizer/Lance Bean [Contra/Konami]
Sol Badguy [Guilty Gear/Arc System Works]
Crono [Chrono/Square Enix]
Lloyd Irving [Tales of/Namco Bandai]
Travis Touchdown [No More Heroes/Marvelous]

Not necessarily in any thought through order.

Ummed and erred on Rayman over Ezio. Almost included reps from Ys, Disgaea and Professor Layton but didn't.

Also tried to not overload certain companies, otherwise KOS-MOS, Amaterasu and 2B would be on here.

And sorry Geno.
 
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Ridrool64

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Messages
1,398
Location
New Jersey
Fighter Pass 1: Didn't Expect That!

Characters who make a shocking appearance join the fray! As an additional character with no stage, Piranha Plant joins the fray!
  1. Joker from Persona 5, from SEGA and Atlus! (The Game Awards)
  2. The Hero of Dragon Quest, from Square-Enix! (E3 Opener)
  3. Banjo & Kazooie, from their self-titled game, from Microsoft! (E3 Closer)
  4. Terry Bogard, of Fatal Fury and King of Fighters fame, from SNK! (September Direct)
  5. Ryu Hayabusa, Ninja Gaiden's master ninja, from Koei-Tecmo! (The Game Awards, one year later)
Fighter Pass 2: Lovely Ladies' Rumble!

An onslaught of female Fighters join the fray! As an additional character with no stage, Dixie Kong joins the fray!
  1. Reimu, from Touhou, the first Indie fighter! (March Direct) (ZUN is added to the credits.)
  2. Lara Croft, from Tomb Raider, from Square-Enix! (E3 Opener)
  3. Arle Nadja & Carbuncle, the stars of Puyo Puyo and Madou Monogatari, from SEGA (and posthumously Compile)! (E3 Closer)
  4. Elma, from Xenoblade X, a Nintendo buddy! (September Direct)
  5. Jill Valentine, from Resident Evil, a Capcom delight! (The Game Awards)
    1. I really wanted this to be Amaterasu but IDK if she'd be a good Game Awards reveal.
Final Fighter Pass: Genre Legends Unite!

The final set of Fighters in this eight player star-studded scram fest! No bonus fighters from here on out!
  1. Doom Slayer, the First-Person Shooter king, from DOOM, of Bethesda fame! (Revealed alongside Amaterasu) (Bethesda is added to the credits.)
  2. Crash Bandicoot, a Platforming hero, from his self-titled series, spinning into action with Activision! (E3 Opener) (Activision is added to the credits.)
  3. Frisk, the determined one of Role Playing Games, from UNDERTALE, proves Indies have what it takes! (E3 Closer)
  4. Steve, the most flexible in Sandbox games, from Minecraft, gives Microsoft another shot! (Halloween Direct 2021)
  5. The final fighter... is none other than one many would have thought impossible... KRATOS, from God of War, seeks to prove Sony's worth! (Sony is added to the credits.)
    1. If Sony doesn't work out, we do have a back up plan, that is Dante from Devil May Cry (Capcom). Both of them provide the best of the best in Hack-and-slash Beat-em-ups!
    2. Both are revealed to be the final fighter at the Game Awards.
Alternate Final Fighter Pass: Nintendo Selects!

Hoping for some more Nintendo love? Well, Nintendo love you get! Unlike the previous fighters, while they don't come with a stage or a Spirit Board, they still bring some extra tracks to the stages they currently have! The reveal timeline is identical to that of the previous pass, as it serves as a replacement for the Genre Legends Unite pack.
  1. Skull Kid, from the Legend of Zelda series, brings a dark aura to the battle! Boss Battle tunes from Zelda come with! (Tingle Mii Brawler Costume now available)
  2. Bandana Waddle Dee, from the Kirby series, takes a poke at this! Kirby's Dark Matter and Modern adventures get some jams! (Adeleine Mii Swordfighter Costume now available)
  3. Waluigi, from Super Mario's franchise, wants to take a cheating idea! Waluigi gives the sports games some love! (E. Gadd Mii Gunner Costume now available)
  4. Edelgard makes her Smash debut here! Fire Emblem's final character! Three Houses gets a little Smashy! (Byleth Mii Swordfighter Costume now available)
  5. The final Fighter is Porky of Mother, who wants to plot something in Smash! (Poo Mii Swordfighter Costume now available)
Unfortunately, all good things must come to an end. Except if you really wish for one more character... maybe Geno can make it come true...!

(Aside: dang, I left Bamco hung out to dry. I didn't want to be biased and claim Lloyd was the best RPG character, and the way I set the rest of the passes up denied Heihachi, Agumon, Dark Souls, KOS-MOS, and the Prince a fair shake.)
 

TheCJBrine

Pranked!
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Messages
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New World, Minecraft
Do people really want Steve in Smash or is it just a bit of a meme people have come to embrace? I really enjoy Minecraft and even owned a server for a little, but I can't imagine a more boring character with as limited moveset potential as him.
Others have already explained it, but I want to say:

Nearly a thousand if not more people on twitter support Steve and want him very much. He may be the default skin, but he still has his own name and design and many people like him and see him as the face of their favorite game. Minecraft has many things Steve could use for a unique Smash moveset, such as an enderpearl, building/crafting, elytra, a dispenser, a chest, a crossbow, TNT, pistons, an anvil, and plenty more.

This moveset video for him even got over 130,000 likes, with some other videos reaching the thousands if not 10-thousands:

And there’s this video that wasn’t noticed as much but has some good ideas for animations:

Just because you think he’s boring doesn’t mean everyone else does nor is he just a meme. Most of his supporters just don’t hang around this site, and plenty of silent people I’m sure would love him because Minecraft is just that big (plus some people use him in builds or straight-up build a stand-alone statue of him and there’s countless fan art).
 
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DarthEnderX

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
8,108
Hopefully they will bring back some of the cut first party costumes from Smash 4 too as there were some good ones they left out for some reason.
Well, as we saw from Protoman and Zero, that "reason" might simply be that they're being held back to pad content for the updates.

Who's the dog Sora's got with him.
Well, you see, it's actually the a digital copy of the soul of the last of the eleven heart crystal holders who has been transformed into a dog by the power of the shadow dimension. And it's eventually revealed that it was the dog from Up the whole time!
 
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DaybreakHorizon

The guy who predicted Sora as Fighter 11
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So, if you know me you know that I have pretty much stated in the past that Sora is absolutely, 100%, definitely, certainly, never going to happen in Smash becaus I interned at Disney Studios (The Film Division) for a little bit of time. I know how protective they are and I know how hard it is to get something out of then without them getting something in return and that still, absolutely, holds true to this day.

Now being in the film division I never really heard much about other goings on. There is a glimmer of hope for you Sora fans though. Very, VERY slight but it is something.

Some of my friends at Disney Studios that stayed on after I left know I'm a huge Nintendo fan and, hoo boy. They told me that Disney is actively trying to gain distribution and production rights in a Nintendo property for the upcoming Disney+ service. Of course, this is all VERY early so no one really knows what property they're trying to snag. My guess would be Zelda since, after Mario (Universal) and Pokemon (Warner Bros.), it's their most well known property available. Just my speculation though.

I want to stress that this is ABSOLUTELY hearsay. I have no way to confirm this and the way my buddies are talking it's looking like it's just rumblings within the studio. Because of the fact that Disney Studios is separated from Pixar, Disney Animation, Disney Television, etc. it's not exactly ALWAYS reliable

What am I trying to say? Well, Sora's chances may have just dropped from 100% impossible, to a solid 95% impossible. If there was ever a shot Sakurai could take for Sora it's now for this next pass.
I still think Sora has a solid 30/70 - 50/50 chance of getting in this next pass. There's the fact that Disney just hired former Playstation Exec John Drake to handle licensing of Disney's properties in video games, and I believe the large success of both Smash Bros. and Kingdom Hearts 3 will at least open Disney up to the possibility of including Sora in Smash for the promotional gain. Nintendo and Disney have a semi-solid work relationships as well.

If Nintendo and Disney can work out a deal here I think Sora is highly likely, as this would follow the precedents set by Wreck-It-Ralph in Sonic and Sega All-Stars Racing (for using Sonic in WiR) and Thanos in Fortnite (for using Fortnite in Endgame).
 

The_Naraotor

Smash Ace
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Messages
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Smash on To Yer Helmet
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All those speculation made me thought of my ideal Smash Characters Roster, I think my ideal roster would be like this...


I didn't include Pokemon because couldn't find the realistically fitting one for this game. I put Black Shadow over Deathborn because I think he is more iconic in the F-Zero franchise (sadly for me *cry in baguette*) also Including Adam because shut up he is a good boy (those who've read the manga knows) also including Wart because he is a vilain that we can aslo find in Zelda where Link learn the singing of the Frog. Didn't include Shadow instead I choose Metal Sonic the OG badass villain of the Sonic World.

I put also in green the echo characters you have:
  • Ninten (echo of Ness)
  • Dixie Kong (echo of Diddy Kong)
  • Octoling (echo of Inkling)

I try also to emulate the numbering system of Smash Bros, so here Ryu Hyabusa & Sub-Zero being the last two Character and Mario being the first one. I think that give us a general idea of each characters number after Terry Bogard. I try also to mix cute characters with badass serious one that was not easy.
 

SKX31

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
3,462
Location
Sweden
I still think Sora has a solid 30/70 - 50/50 chance of getting in this next pass. There's the fact that Disney just hired former Playstation Exec John Drake to handle licensing of Disney's properties in video games, and I believe the large success of both Smash Bros. and Kingdom Hearts 3 will at least open Disney up to the possibility of including Sora in Smash for the promotional gain. Nintendo and Disney have a semi-solid work relationships as well.

If Nintendo and Disney can work out a deal here I think Sora is highly likely, as this would follow the precedents set by Wreck-It-Ralph in Sonic and Sega All-Stars Racing (for using Sonic in WiR) and Thanos in Fortnite (for using Fortnite in Endgame).
Yeah, I'm feeling about the same on Sora's chances. Didn't include him in my predictions because Square's bench is deeep (It's why I have doubts on Geno and other S-E characters too) and there could be a possible kerfuffle with how Square and / or Disney see the supporting cast. From a layman's perspective Sora could work by himself and / or with the other OCs / Square characters just fine. But corporate stuff can be incredibly tricky / weird.

On a completely different note, managed to find some news from the China front, from yesterday (pulling from Weibo, Chinese Twitter, also using Google translate for as much convienience as possible):
TencFactories.png


Pretty much says "Tencent established a daughter / shell company to start producing game equipment". Very likely Switch consoles because Tencent doesn't usually dabble in physical stuff. They're certainly moving full force towards releasing the Switch in China.
 
Joined
Oct 31, 2018
Messages
1,057
If I were to get a Three Houses character, I'd honestly want Dimitri or maybe Claude (though I think Takumi from Fates would be a more interesting archer). I just have a hard time imagining Edelgard with a unique moveset. You'd have to lean into the heavy armor and shield stuff to make her feel new, and that's not exactly what her image is, considering she never even holds a shield in her artwork. Byleth honestly seems like he/she would be a combination of the Belmonts and Corrin or maybe Shulk. It could be interesting or highly derivative. At least Byleth has weird anti-gravity movement that would make for some good animations.

I'm a big FE fan, but if we were to get a new character from the series in Smash at this point I would want someone who can't even be accused of being a copy. It's sad that people assume the games themselves are this super generic thing because the characters put in Smash are basically their games' respective shotos. The series deserves better.

I don't really think we're getting any of them, and I'm not sure I really want one. But on a surface level I honestly think the two lords that aren't talked about would be the better editions. I just wanted to throw my two cents in because I see Edelgard and Byleth thrown around a bunch.
 

dezeray112

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Messages
5,473
Location
Wales, United Kingdom
My Three Fighters Passes prediction:

Fighter Pass 1:
Joker - Persona 5
Hero - Dragon Quest
Banjo & Kazooie - Banjo-Kazooie
Terry Bogard - Fatal Fury
Either a Bandai Namco Rep or Tecmo Koei Rep

Fighter Pass 2:
Akira Howard - Astral Chain
Edelgard or Byleth - Fire Emblem: Three Houses
Rex & Pyra or Elma - Xenoblade Series
Pokemon Sword & Shield Rep
Retro Nintendo Rep

Fighter Pass 3:
Either a Bandai Namco Reo or Tecmo Koei Rep
Another Capcom Rep
Travis Touchdown
Level-5 Rep
Doom Guy
 

DaybreakHorizon

The guy who predicted Sora as Fighter 11
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Yeah, I'm feeling about the same on Sora's chances. Didn't include him in my predictions because Square's bench is deeep (It's why I have doubts on Geno and other S-E characters too) and there could be a possible kerfuffle with how Square and / or Disney see the supporting cast. From a layman's perspective Sora could work by himself and / or with the other OCs / Square characters just fine. But corporate stuff can be incredibly tricky / weird.

On a completely different note, managed to find some news from the China front, from yesterday (pulling from Weibo, Chinese Twitter, also using Google translate for as much convienience as possible):
View attachment 237711

Pretty much says "Tencent established a daughter / shell company to start producing game equipment". Very likely Switch consoles because Tencent doesn't usually dabble in physical stuff. They're certainly moving full force towards releasing the Switch in China.
For what it's worth, as of about five months ago Hashimoto (Executive Officer of SE and co-creator of the KH series) said "He (Sora)'s not planned for the game."

Granted this doesn't really mean much given that people have responded as such under NDA, such as (to use a series example) Vexen's voice actor Derek Stephen, who said he was not asked to reprise his role when he actually did. Furthermore, in the five months since then negotiations definitely could have opened up if we assume negotiations for more characters have just seriously begun.

I think Sora's got a real chance guys.
 

N3ON

Gone Exploring
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
21,444
Location
Vancouver
You can tell how toxic the fanbase of a character is by their reaction to the character getting disconfirmed as an AT or Mii Costume and I think it's a very interesting exercise to do.
I think it’s pretty toxic to go sniffing out toxicity. What do you gain by gauging negativity? A worse outlook towards certain people or characters?

I can tell you the results of that exercise will almost solely shine on fanbases with four specific characteristics:
1) it has to be big
2) they have to have expected their character en masse
3) they have to have not received that character
4) the character had to be hard deconfirmed by AT

If the fanbase wasn't big, they didn't rile each other up. If the fanbase didn't expect their character, they didn't get overly invested in the outcome, if they received their character, all that prior negative energy seems to be forgotten (Daisy, Banjo, etc.), and if the character only got a spirit or some other lesser role, the fanbase never perceived the character as truly deconfirmed.

So if anything, it's a more effective exercise in highlighting the circumstances to precipitate the most adverse reaction out of a fanbase than to fairly outline which fanbases are worse than others. I contend that if a character's fanbase is considered "toxic", they fit that criteria, and if it's not, they'd don't.
 
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EricTheGamerman

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
Messages
3,197
For what it's worth, as of about five months ago Hashimoto (Executive Officer of SE and co-creator of the KH series) said "He (Sora)'s not planned for the game."

Granted this doesn't really mean much given that people have responded as such under NDA, such as (to use a series example) Vexen's voice actor Derek Stephen, who said he was not asked to reprise his role when he actually did. Furthermore, in the five months since then negotiations definitely could have opened up if we assume negotiations for more characters have just seriously begun.

I think Sora's got a real chance guys.
More directly, I mean, if Grant Kirkhope can outright "deconfirm" Banjo & Kazooie and his involvement in their production, then pretty much any "No" is open for interpretation now.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I think it’s pretty toxic to go sniffing out toxicity
"no u"
What do you gain by gauging negativity?
Actually locating the toxic portions instead of letting the bigger fanbases accuse others of it. The Undertale and Sans fanbase were unfairly called toxic despite never showing any toxicity on the same level as the bigger Smash fanbases.
If the fanbase wasn't big, they didn't rile each other up. If the fanbase didn't expect their character, they didn't get overly invested in the outcome, if they received their character, all that prior negative energy seems to be forgotten (Daisy, Banjo, etc.)
1. This isn't about confirmed characters because the exercise doesn't work with them, it's about deconfirmed characters in particular
2. All that you described is related to that toxicity, those are just self-righteousness and a feeling of superiority
if the character only got a spirit or some other lesser role,
I specifically said "AT or Mii Costume"
 

Jassassino

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 9, 2019
Messages
139
Honestly fams, give us Steve and 20 echoes of the scene kid girl skins as long as I get Raziel from Soul Reaver in this game.
 

SKX31

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
3,462
Location
Sweden
For what it's worth, as of about five months ago Hashimoto (Executive Officer of SE and co-creator of the KH series) said "He (Sora)'s not planned for the game."

Granted this doesn't really mean much given that people have responded as such under NDA, such as (to use a series example) Vexen's voice actor Derek Stephen, who said he was not asked to reprise his role when he actually did. Furthermore, in the five months since then negotiations definitely could have opened up if we assume negotiations for more characters have just seriously begun.

I think Sora's got a real chance guys.
Yeah, with DLC being extended there shouldn't be much of an issue with time per se. Of course it depends on how long Sakurai and co. wants to keep going: but if we assume a long DLC cycle (10 more characters, aka. the 3 pass thing we discussed here earlier) Sakurai, S-E and Disney have the time to hash it out. 5 characters take presumably 15 months, so assuming that's the case going forward we get:

FP should have its 5 characters released by Leap Day 2020.
"Pass 2" would have a timetable that finishes around May 2021.
"Pass 3"'s timetable thus completes ca. August / September 2022.

That works to Sora's advantage because it gives crucial time to hash out spirit details etc. For the record, I'm fine personally with 4th party characters like Donald and Goofy appearing in a non-playable role, but I understand not everyone thinks that way and would be fine without them. S-E's fine giving Luminary's allies the spirit "Hero's Comrades", so I wouldn't be surprised if "Sora's Friends" got a group spirit too.
 

ZelDan

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 19, 2011
Messages
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New Hampshire
You can tell how toxic the fanbase of a character is by their reaction to the character getting disconfirmed as an AT or Mii Costume and I think it's a very interesting exercise to do.
Using people's reactions to seeing a character they wanted get deconfirmed as a gauge as how toxic they are seems like a pretty huge stretch.

So are Isaac, Waluigi, and Ashley fans toxic because SOME members of said fanbases were angry over the characters being disconfirmed? Were/are K Roll fans toxic because they are unhappy about his Mii costume in Smash 4?

And while admittedly maybe some of these fans maybe took things a bit too far with what they said, there's nothing inherently wrong at all about people being disappointed or upset that their character did not get a playable position. And even some of the more extreme, vitriolic responses were likely just because they were really emotional at that specific time and a good chunk of these people probably don't say such extreme things now that their emotions have calmed (some still might be pissy, but probably not all).
 
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N3ON

Gone Exploring
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Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
21,444
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Vancouver
"no u"

Actually locating the toxic portions instead of letting the bigger fanbases accuse others of it. The Undertale and Sans fanbase were unfairly called toxic despite never showing any toxicity on the same level as the bigger Smash fanbases.

1. This isn't about confirmed characters because the exercise doesn't work with them, it's about deconfirmed characters in particular
2. All that you described is related to that toxicity, those are just self-righteousness and a feeling of superiority

I specifically said "AT or Mii Costume"
Well then, bang up job on an exercise to locate toxic portions of the audience that only implicates the fanbases people already associate with toxicity, doesn't work with ones people forget were toxic, and seemingly exists to indict specific fanbases despite it not just being members of those fanbases that may have called Undertale toxic.
 
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EricTheGamerman

Smash Master
Joined
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3,197
Yeah, with DLC being extended there shouldn't be much of an issue with time per se. Of course it depends on how long Sakurai and co. wants to keep going: but if we assume a long DLC cycle (10 more characters, aka. the 3 pass thing we discussed here earlier) Sakurai, S-E and Disney have the time to hash it out. 5 characters take presumably 15 months, so assuming that's the case going forward we get:

FP should have its 5 characters released by Leap Day 2020.
"Pass 2" would have a timetable that finishes around May 2021.
"Pass 3"'s timetable thus completes ca. August / September 2022.

That works to Sora's advantage because it gives crucial time to hash out spirit details etc. For the record, I'm fine personally with 4th party characters like Donald and Goofy appearing in a non-playable role, but I understand not everyone thinks that way and would be fine without them. S-E's fine giving Luminary's allies the spirit "Hero's Comrades", so I wouldn't be surprised if "Sora's Friends" got a group spirit too.
Unless they take some sort of break between characters, I'd expect that we'd actually end up moving up this theoretical schedule given the fact that they seem to always be producing the following characters while working on the next immediate one. We've got to remember that this DLC cycle started out post game, which meant the first three all went into production at roughly the same time, Sakurai was finishing up Piranha Plant to the best of his ability, and working on additional modes. This time, there is no Piranha Plant to finish, Sakurai seems to be done with modes, and he's likely going to keep to the pattern of working on characters that are further in the future than the next one releasing, so I think you end up with a more efficient pipeline to character releases. I think another 11 fighters could easily be finished by the end of 2021 with how damn efficiently they're pumping characters out at this rate. And I really see no reason for them to stop producing characters at this pace if Sakurai is interested and Nintendo is funding them.

I have a suspicion that we'll get #5 in January at some point given how quickly characters seem to be coming. If that happens, that means we got 6 characters in the span of about a year and a month (and like I said, I think DLC #7 is in production right now to some degree and is probably coming sooner than we even think given this early of an announcement of additional fighters), they can definitely crank out the next 10 by December 2021 with two full years of production in full swing seemingly focused on characters and little else.
 

N3ON

Gone Exploring
BRoomer
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Yep. A community is judged by it's most public figures.
No, it's judged by its most extreme members. Which obviously isn't fair.

Like, for example, if people think of an Isaac supporter, I probably come to mind. Maybe Billybae10k. And yet Isaac supporters are judged by believing a Rathalos pick meant something, which neither of us did. I mean, can you name the people that believed that pic? I'd guess most people would just say "the Isaac fanbase". Because extremes are what sticks out.
 
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Al-kīmiyā'

Smash the State
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Messages
2,574
I don't see how it's toxic to be upset that one's desired character be included only as an assist trophy. They wanted that character playable. They didn't want that character as an assist trophy. They didn't get anything they wanted, except the slim chance of an upgrade in the next Smash.
 

N3ON

Gone Exploring
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
21,444
Location
Vancouver
Well crud, I guess I'm toxic now because I just so happen to also want Isaac in Smash.

Sorry if my toxic Isaac-wanting ways have offended people in here.
You wanted Isaac, makes you part of a toxic fanbase, just like the Waluigi fanbase, who sent death threats to Sakurai.

So basically you killed Sakurai.
 

SKX31

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
3,462
Location
Sweden
Unless they take some sort of break between characters, I'd expect that we'd actually end up moving up this theoretical schedule given the fact that they seem to always be producing the following characters while working on the next immediate one. We've got to remember that this DLC cycle started out post game, which meant the first three all went into production at roughly the same time, Sakurai was finishing up Piranha Plant to the best of his ability, and working on additional modes. This time, there is no Piranha Plant to finish, Sakurai seems to be done with modes, and he's likely going to keep to the pattern of working on characters that are further in the future than the next one releasing, so I think you end up with a more efficient pipeline to character releases. I think another 11 fighters could easily be finished by the end of 2021 with how damn efficiently they're pumping characters out at this rate. And I really see no reason for them to stop producing characters at this pace if Sakurai is interested and Nintendo is funding them.

I have a suspicion that we'll get #5 in January at some point given how quickly characters seem to be coming. If that happens, that means we got 6 characters in the span of about a year and a month (and like I said, I think DLC #7 is in production right now to some degree and is probably coming sooner than we even think given this early of an announcement of additional fighters), they can definitely crank out the next 10 by December 2021 with two full years of production in full swing seemingly focused on characters and little else.
Yea, I should admit: I completely forgot about Plant until after I posted. Whelp. I also completely forgot about the modes,

Still, I think we'll have a better time table once we know Smash's (official) Chinese release. Sure the Switch could go any way there - it could flop, it could become a middling success. Or even better. What makes me cautiously optimistic is that there seems to be a lot of interest in the Switch there. Even after taking (probable*) inflated viewcounts and (possible) bot comments into account. There are a lot of mirrors of Terry's and Sans' reveals - and trust me, there was hype around them - there are quite a few prominent accounts spreading news such as "Hey, Nintendo listened to everyone's dissatisfaction with the Switch Lite and decided to make positive changes to it!" And so on.

Regardless, I do believe Nintendo will want Chinese buyers to experience at least one year of Smash DLC (so they have something to look forward to). That's something I think Nintendo wanted Sakurai to know. Of course, that's not the primary reason why DLC's getting extended, but I could see it as a secondary reason.

*(Should come clean here, I've taken inflated viewcounts at face value in the past. It's primarily due to Chinese video / streaming sites having a weird counting system.)

*(EDIT: Here's the Sans reveal on Chinese video site Bilibili. Just be prepped - Chinese and Japanese streams have a tendency to overlay comments ontop of the video. Those Chinese comments cover the screen when Sans comes up (at 1:04).)
 
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venomthebest

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 10, 2019
Messages
89
Ok so a little off topic but how would you guys feel about Bub and Bob getting in smash bros? They seem to be a popular arcade characters and I feel like they are not talked about enough as they deserve.
My opinion would be that I would be more hyped than I was about Hero getting in with three alts
 

Hadokeyblade

Smash Legend
Joined
Dec 5, 2018
Messages
10,722
Gonna play along with the imaginary DLC list.

Now this isn't exactly characters I want as I already got most of what I anted, this is mostly just characters I think have a shot mixed with the characters I want.

Season 2:
Pack 1: Pokemon generation 8 starter
Pack 2:Crash
Pack 3:Sora
Pack 4: Professor Layton
Pack 5:Rex and Pyra

Season 3:
Pack 1: Paper mario
Pack 2: Lloyd
Pack 3:Scorpion
Pack 4: Phoenix Wright
Pack 5:Dante

I listed them in an order where I think it would make generate enough hype.
Pack 3 would be an E3 announcement. Like Banjo, Ridley, Ryu, Pacman and Megaman in years past Sora and Scorpion are the perfect E3 reveals for Smash bros.

Phoenix wright is perfect for a fall direct where he pops up in the end, a meta joke where he yells "Hold it!" At the end of a direct.

The Nintendo characters are ones that make perfect sense and are in a way promotional picks.
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
So are Isaac, Waluigi, and Ashley fans toxic because SOME members of said fanbases were angry over the characters being disconfirmed? Were/are K Roll fans toxic because they are unhappy about his Mii costume in Smash 4?
I said fanbase, not fans but if you replaced the words then say yes.
There's a pretty huge difference between being upset and "sakurai should be sued for the emotional damage he caused me" among other stuff.
Well then, bang up job on an exercise to locate toxic portions of the audience that only implicates the fanbases people already associate with toxicity, doesn't work with ones people forget were toxic, and seemingly exists to indict specific fanbases despite it not just being members of those fanbases that may have called Undertale toxic.
I don't get what you're trying to get at? If you're trying to imply I forgot how bad the K.Rool/Daisy/Banjo fanbases were, I haven't. The exercise won't work with everything, this is why it targets a specific subsection of fanbases, that being of deconfirmed characters.
 

Tonberry2k

Smash Cadet
Joined
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Messages
41
Location
spriters-resource.com
Not sure how many more we'll get, but I think the big things missing to make the roster feel complete to me, would be;

1. Crono- This game is a work of art and absolutely deserves to be enshrined among the heavy hitters in Smash.

2. Steve- Say what you want, but he's to kids today what Mario was to kids growing up in the 80s/90s.

3. Master Chief- A FPS rep, huge franchise rep, and "console wars" icon.

4. Crash- Same as Chief, but a generation earlier.

5. Sora- Like Smash, KH is all about crossover wish fulfilment. This would be the culmination of both.

6. Lara Croft- She's a gaming icon, and had a huge presence in the 90s. Plus she's very different from most of the cast.

Geno is also a huge want for me going back to Melee. I know all of this gives Square Enix way too many characters, but...

For first parties, Dixie, Masked Man or Porky, Hades, and an Astral Chain character would all be amazing.
 

Rangez

Dimensional Dile-Up
Joined
Feb 26, 2019
Messages
2,481
Here is my list of predictions/guesses for what's to become of DLC in the future (if there's supposedly more Fighter Passes):

#70 - Pirahna Plant (Super Mario)

#71 - Joker (Persona)
#72 - Hero (Dragon Quest)
#73 - Banjo & Kazooie (Banjo-Kazooie)
#74 - Terry Bogard (Fatal Fury)
#75 - Crash Bandicoot (Crash Bandicoot)

#76 - Akira Howard (Astral Chain)
#77 - Jin Kazama (Tekken)
#78 - Tibby (Rhythm Heaven)
#79 - Arle Nadja (Puyo Puyo)
#80 - Master Chief (Halo)

#81 - 2B (Nier: Automata)
#82 - Leon S. Kennedy (Resident Evil)
#83 - Doom Slayer (Doom)
#84 - Lloyd Irving (Tales of..)
#85 - Tracer (Overwatch)
 
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Animegamingnerd

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 17, 2015
Messages
844
Location
Medford, Oregon
Honestly its tough to predict who is next after the fighters pass when there are so many unanswer questions such as

How long will this go on for?

Will they follow the Smash 4 model or do a fighters pass 2?

Are Spirits on the table?

Will each new character come with a stage and music tracks?

Will that last spot on the stage select screen even be fill?

Will there be any first party characters?

If there are any first party will they be more recent Nintendo characters or lean more towards older ones?

Will we get anymore Mii Costume's in the vein of Sans?

Are new echo fighters gonna happen?

Will tomorrow's weekly Famitsu chart sales show an increase in Xbox One console sales due to Sakurai telling people to play Banjo on Xbox?

I will say though whoever is the first post fighters pass character will be a big indicator of the direction, since Joker was a pretty big indicator that all characters in the fighter pass will be third party.
 
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EricTheGamerman

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
Messages
3,197
I'll also throw my two cents in to the whole two more Fighter's Pass' of a characters for Ultimate. These are characters that I would love to see show up in Smash Ultimate and I think make some sense for inclusion in the game. I'm also not allowing myself to upgrade Assist Trophies (I will wait to see that happen on Sakurai's part... and I kind of think if that becomes possible, all of speculation will just be the same Isaac, Waluigi, Skull Kid, Krystal stuff we had from base game and that's a little boring to me haha... sorry Isaac) and I'm also requiring myself to include one first party character "per pass" in order to give those fans an option.

Fighter's Pass 1

#5 - Ryu Hayabusa: Koei Tecmo is the biggest Japanese company not in Smash, Koei Tecmo has worked incredibly closely with Nintendo these past few years, and Ryu Hayabusa is another NES era icon that also had a quite successful modern revival. He just makes a ton of sense.

Fighter's Pass 2

#1 - Geno: Pretty much the last of the old guard of speculation from the Brawl era at this point, and a character that Sakurai is personally interested in. He may be a very old and forgotten character to many people, but he has a loud fan base, Sakurai's love behind him, and just a lot of circumstances right now that are pointing potentially in his favor such as the Mii costume being missing. He's also my number one most requested personally, so he's here.

#2 - Rex/Pyra: Out of all the Nintendo first party IPs that could be advertised in Smash, I think Xenoblade makes the most sense with how much the game has turned into one of Nintendo's bigger IPs these past couple of years thanks to the success of XC2 and we're seeing XC: Definitive Edition on the horizon. In addition to becoming a bigger franchise, Sakurai seemed to express a desire to include them and people absolutely back them as a fan favorite. I see plenty of reason for them to finally make it in through DLC now that it's an option.

#3 - Doom Slayer*: Sakurai has acknowledged the importance of DOOM and John Carmack before, so that means it's on his radar. Bethesda seems to have a much closer relationship with Nintendo than anyone could have guessed they would have, much of that revolving around the DOOM series. We don't have a FPS representative in the game and he's very much a classic character that could represent another major part of gaming, though I think this comes with the caveat that Sakurai knows FPS games aren't huge in Japan.

#4 - Travis Touchdown: Suda 51 is perhaps one of the biggest presences in Japan without something in the game as well, so I think that alone puts him a good spot. Then you consider that Travis Strikes Again just came out this year, No More Heroes III is coming to Switch next year, and that Suda is actively pushing for Travis in Smash... and I think this finally happens. I'd love to see Suda's work get a big place in Smash personally and Travis would work really well.

#5 - Reimu (Touhou): Remember how I mentioned FPS games weren't huge in Japan, well, I think Reimu is the balancing character of this pass. I always consider Touhou to be the wildcard of Smash speculation. She's a more minor presence in the States, but in Japan, she seems huge, and huge parts of Japanese gaming I think still end up getting some amount of priority going into more DLC. I don't know a ton about her, but she would represent the SHUMP genre and a seemingly quite popular IP, so I've included her here (I also wanted to make sure I included a couple of female characters).

Fighter's Pass 3

#1 - Sora: He arguably speaks for himself, but I think that Sakurai is looking for another huge "bring down the house" type moment with Smash Ultiamte before everything is finished and I think the character with the best chance of doing that is Sora. Kingdom Hearts is huge and in somewhat of a comeback period now too. He's heavily requested pretty much everywhere, and it's another "Impossible dream" happening in Smash. I don't care too much about Sora personally, but I want this moment for Smash to happen and see Sakurai achieve the "impossible" once again.

#2 - Crash Bandicoot: Just a character on one hell of a comeback that was popular in Japan and in the West. People have instantly latched onto him this speculation cycle, and I think that attention will be noticed by Sakurai. He's another classic PS1 icon that goes along with Mario and Sonic, so I think he just makes a lot of sense as this character to further fill out this roster of platforming icons that represent gaming history.

#3 - Bandanna Dee: I needed another first party character for this pass, and Nintendo seems to constantly push Kirby at every opportunity they can. Bandanna Dee is just another big fan request character that also happens to work in Nintendo's favor of advertising major products. So, I think he finally happens in Smash.

#4 - Dante:
Capcom is too big of a presence to ignore even if I'm not all that interested in their characters. I think given their stable of sold IPs, we just end up with at least one more by the end of Ultimate. Resident Evil arguably makes more sense as the bigger game and the genre not currently in Smash... but I just like Dante better for his crazy demeanor that could fit so well into Smash and Devil May Cry music would be excellent to include. So, I made a personal call, but this is more of a Capcom spot in general.

#5 - Shantae: Like I said, I really wanted to include another female character, and Shantae was arguably the one in the best position to join the roster outside of Jill Valentine and Reimu (or a potential Dixie Kong I guess). Indies seem to be getting more and more attention, so I could see her as the first Western Indie fighter to join the roster. That said, she's also the character I'm the least confident in and least invested in... so if we need a Bandai-Namco rep (which certainly seems possible if not likely), then they'll bump her off (though I prefer her to them).

*IF, and only IF, Halo comes to Switch, I think Doom Slayer gets swapped for Master Chief. It's the only other huge moment I can think of besides Sora that will just absolutely bring down the house of speculation and make for an awesome gaming crossover moment. If Halo comes to Switch, I see no reason for this not to happen (especially since I already accounted for Doom's western popularity with a much more focused Japanese pick in Reimu). And personally, I much prefer Halo and Chief to Doom and Doom Slayer.
 

Curious Villager

Puzzles...
Joined
Jun 24, 2012
Messages
11,770
Location
London
Guess I might as well give my two cent's as far as potential future fighters go. Assuming their making use of all 16 dummy slots. While their numbered, their in no particular order (Besides the first five of course)

1. Piranha Plant (Bonus character)

2. Joker (Atlus character)
3. Hero (Square character)
4. Banjo & Kazooie (Microsoft character)
5. Terry (SNK character)
6. Layton or Jibanyan I guess... (Level-5 character)

7. Phoenix (Capcom character)
8. Ryu Hyabusa/Kasumi (Koei Tecmo character)
9. Crash Bandicoot (Activision character)
10. Doom Guy (Bethesda character)
11. Travis Touchdown (Suda51 character)

12. Tekken character/Tales of Series character (Namco character)
13. Arle Nadja (Sega character)
14. Resident Evil character/Dante/Any other Capcom characters (second Capcom character)
15. Sora/Geno/Any other Square Enix characters (Second Square Enix character)
16. Steve/Master Chief (Second Microsoft character)
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
Guess I might as well give my two cent's as far as potential future fighters. Assuming their making use of all 16 dummy slots. While their numbered, their in no particular order (Besides the first five of course)

1. Piranha Plant (Bonus character)

2. Joker (Atlus character)
3. Hero (Square character)
4. Banjo (Microsoft character)
5. Terry (SNK character)
6. Layton or Jibanyan I guess... (Level-5 character)

7. Phoenix (Capcom character)
8. Ryu Hyabusa/Kasumi (Koei Tecmo character)
9. Crash Bandicoot (Activision character)
10. Doom Guy (Bethesda character)
11. Travis Touchdown (Suda51 character)

12. Lloyd Irving/Heihachi (Namco character)
13. Arle Nadja (Sega character)
14. Resident Evil/Dante/Any other Capcom characters (second Capcom character)
15. Sora/Geno/Any other Square characters (Second Square character)
16. Steve (Second Microsoft character)
I was about to word up...then I saw Arle Nadja and I was like...th-thank you.
 

Wunderwaft

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 21, 2019
Messages
3,470
Attempting to characterize a fanbase due to a couple of bad apples is a very close-minded and ignorant thing to do. Two kids on twitter harassed Sakurai's twitter account and suddenly all Waluigi fans are psychopaths and toxic. One Ashley fan on twitter said something dumb about Castlevania and suddenly all Ashley fans are dumb and toxic. A small group of Isaac fans believed in a silly theory and suddenly all Isaac fans are conspiracy theorists and toxic.

The reality of the matter is that people love to take the extremes of a fanbase and stretch the living hell out of them to make said fanbase look bad. There are bad parts in every fanbase, it doesn't mean that these bad parts are the majority or representation of the group.

Think of it this way, would YOU like it if the fanbase of your favorite character got slandered to hell because of a few people and you were called toxic and other derogatory terms just because you belonged to that group?
 
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