Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Schnee117]

Nightmare is a suit used by many. In six, a female character becomes the new Nightmare, and the Siegfried variant is another too. I think it was Sophitia that is the new Nightmare?? But they may be different builds so might not work as alts.

Hmm. Guard Breaking is hard to do without it being an obvious Counter, and that's not entirely necessary. He doesn't have projectiles(outside of Night Terror), so it might be difficult to justify. It's an important tool to the franchise, but it's based upon 3D gameplay too. However, one way to do it is if you do a perfect shield, you can immediately follow up with a move faster than others. That might be arguably broken, though.

Sophitia didn't become Nightmare, it's still Siegfried

 

[Cutie Gwen]

This has less to do with Nightmare and more with an overall feel of the last few newcomers...

But I would REALLY like to see somebody who has faster move speeds and what not. Sephiroth is probably my favorite of this pass, but I’d love to see somebody who is faster all around.

@SharkLord is typing

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

As a soul calibur fan, this is the first I've heard of it. In SC6 Nightmare is Siegfried for most of it as it replays the events of SC1. As far as I know it doesn't take a new host.

Are you sure you don't mean Pyrrha from SC5? Sophitias daughter in the future timeline who gets influenced by and wields Soul Edge?
While she has some Nightmare-eque moves, her general moveset wouldn't really work for a Nightmare Skin, especially with her weapon being pretty different.

It also makes more sense for the Siegfried alt considering he's the most famous 'Nightmare' and even after he's released from its grasp Nightmare being left on its own continues imitating his general style and weapon as well as the later user who used the Nightmare moniker.

That's who I was thinking of. I remembered a female one. Thank you.

Ah, good to know. I haven't played that game yet. Though admittedly they could make it an alt anyway, but I'm more than fine with it being his SC2/3/4 appearances~

I know that Nightmare is not Siegfried in 3 whatsoever, but is Inferno taking over the armor instead. This is why also why Nightmare and Siegfried are locked in battle in IV. As I don't know 5 and 6's story well, things could've changed beyond that. Though it was crazy for Siegfried to go Knight Templar and cause just as much damage by freezing the world(in 4). ._.

 

[SpecterFlower]

Alright thread, it seems we are in a leak moment.

Which team?

The Reimu/KOS-MOS/Crash leak, the Ryu Hayabusa/Rayman/Doomguy leak, the Chun-Li/Tales of leak, or do you not believe in any of these?

Personally, I do not believe on any of these leaks. But place your order, please!

i like 5 pages behind on this thread so idk if the situation changed now but i believe the tales of leak however i don't believe chun-li or a tales of character will be DLC.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

POG Xemnas Sephiroth

Sephiroth in bright colors

Stop! You have violated the law! Pay the fine or...uh...That's as far as I've memorized the meme. I've never actually played Skyrim.

 

[SharkLord]

This has less to do with Nightmare and more with an overall feel of the last few newcomers...

But I would REALLY like to see somebody who has faster move speeds and what not. Sephiroth is probably my favorite of this pass, but I’d love to see somebody who is faster all around.

@SharkLord is typing

You know what happens next

 

[Strife]

hey c'mon if its akuma's final smash theres no way its not raging demon right

(or maybe secret 2nd final smash complete with input that will make non-FG players scared)


It had a pronounced electric and juggling effect in Marvel vs Capcom 3, where it was one of his best tools for comboing and pressure/assist.
He also had this super which was a barrage of gohadokens.

Hmm I was thinking stun shock effect might be too broken, but Ryu's straight up kills at higher percents so this could work. The lightning was more of an animation, than a function of the move though correct.

I initially thought the v-trigger had to be the final smash, because it wouldn't make sense a regular move, but it could be a unique character mechanic like the Sephiroth's one wing is, which is actually more faithful to the game.

This has less to do with Nightmare and more with an overall feel of the last few newcomers...

But I would REALLY like to see somebody who has faster move speeds and what not. Sephiroth is probably my favorite of this pass, but I’d love to see somebody who is faster all around.

Too many of the DLC characters have been on the slower side. After Joker, the fastest character we've had frame data wise, is probably Terry, which is all kinds of weird. Frame data is usually whats most important to be top tier in this game anyways.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Hmmm I had thought they would use his V-Trigger as his ultimate smash

I was actually thinking this for our second unique SF rep:

V-Skill: Standard down-B
V-Trigger: Smash input down-B, can only use when meter is full
V-Reversal: Press A+B while parrying, uses half of the meter.

 

[FJA147]

Hmm I was thinking stun shock effect might be too broken, but Ryu's straight up kills at higher percents so this could work. The lightning was more of an animation, than a function of the move though correct.

I initially thought the v-trigger had to be the final smash, because it wouldn't make sense a regular move, but it could be a unique character mechanic like the Sephiroth's one wing is, which is actually more faithful to the game.



Too many of the DLC characters have been on the slower side. After Joker, the fastest character we've had frame data wise, is probably Terry, which is all kinds of weird. Frame data is usually whats most important to be top tier in this game anyways.

Also Steve too is also super fast frame data wise. His slowest move is down air at 20 frames. All of his other moves are pretty fast.

 

[Oracle Link]

I'm having a hard time dealing with the reality of Ganondorf's moveset lately. I feel like the respect that Sephiroth got triggered it. WHY is he like this? I would've happily left him out of Melee if I knew this was going to happen. He should be reflecting projectiles instead of being dominated by them. He should have his own projectile.

I understand there are people that like his moveset, but surely there's a compromise we can reach? Probably will never happen unless Sakurai steps down from Smash, but I feel like simply changing his specials would do it. Let him keep flame choke, but give him Deadman's Volley, Float, and a cape parry. That would flesh out his options so much and make him that much more true to his original character.

I guess I'm just kind of babbling. I'm grateful he's in the game at all, but this just gets me down every so often. Smash would be nearly perfect to me if they gave Ganondorf a decent overall.

Any encouraging words for me? Lol

This is one of the Reason why the Argument that more Fe Characters are in because theyre easy to make is invalid
Link new moveset makes sense
Zelda new moveset makes sense
Shiek new moveset makes only sense as a transformation
Ganondorf no new Moveset makes no sense
Young Link semi Echo makes sense
Ton link replacing Young link makes sense
havving 2 Young links(1 maes sense) and 2 Zeldas and Clone Ganondorf in the fifth Smash Game is Stupid

Fire emblem
Marth, ike, corrin, daraen and Byleth new Movesets
and 3 Echos

Ganondorf should have gotten a new Moveset and Impa instead of Lucina or Chrome should be the least Sakurai should do

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Too many of the DLC characters have been on the slower side. After Joker, the fastest character we've had frame data wise, is probably Terry, which is all kinds of weird. Frame data is usually whats most important to be top tier in this game anyways.

This is probably a side effect on a focus on characters rather than playstyles when it comes to roster considerations, as the DLC so far has been:

• Wat?
• Probably supposed to be rush down, but is good at everything.
• Zoner
• Zoner, but like, Y tho? I almost wonder if he was supposed to be an all-rounder like Mario, but his kit is unbalanced.
• All-rounder, but leaning toward the grappler style of play where it's harder to get in, but more rewarding if you do.
• Zoner
• Zoner
• Zoner, but instead of using projectiles or disjointed hitboxes, he just runs away. Until he doesn't and you take 50%.
• Zoner

 

[DevaAshera]

Besides, anniversaries doesn't mean anything in smash. Sephiroth was announced the same day as Doom's anniversary.

I seriously doubt this means anything.

Sephiroth was soft released on Final Fantasy's Anniversary though, so that's a thing.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

8 way run, as in the streaming team? Why would they matter in regards to this?

I meant the mechanic of being able to run in eight different directions, which is a big part of SC gameplay

IIRC, that mechanic is why that streaming team has that name.

Aight then.

Nightmare's trailer starts, with SC's own narrator talking briefly about how his thirst for power led him to Smash.

Seriously, Nightmare is probably my most wanted fighting game character right now.
Alongside maybe Sub-Zero/Scorpion.

You are very much a person of culture in my eyes because goddamn I’d love MK in Smash too.

 

[Speed Weed]

Fair enough.

It sounds like you want a genuine revaluation of charactes as opposed to just... "I'm bored, let's talk about unlikely characters."

I can respect and support that notion.

There's two very noticeable extremes in thought process that I've seen Smash spec adopt lately.

There's the "wow i was NOT expecting that character anyway my predictions for the rest of the pass are crash dante and master chief" and the "SHUT UP about all these stupid commonly-discussed characters you PLEBS don't you know we NEVER get anything right? In fact I'm fully expecting Sakurai to throw us yet another curveball and announce Paul Blart as the next DLC character"

I'm not a fan of either mindset, tbh. The first one often shows a lack of will to dig deeper and explore new options, while the second one frequently reeks of contrarianism and randomness for the sake of it, often not bothering to give examples or elaborate on why those randos would be picked other than "well, Sakurai likes to throw curveballs at us!"

I'd rather we take a more balanced approach to all this. Yes, the more commonly-discussed characters make sense, they have reasons to be picked and it makes sense they're brought up so often. But on the other hand, if we keep getting blindsided like we just did with Sephiroth, then maybe it wouldn't hurt to expand our horizons beyond the same 10 or so people and explore some alternative options. But on the other other hand, if we're to bring up these crazy hamboorgers in the context of serious speculation, then I feel like we kinda gotta look for choices that still make sense and that we might be legitimately overlooking. Whenever we get a more unexpected choice, people basically act like "the madman Sakurai throwing curveballs at us yet again" as if he looked for characters that aren't as requested or talked about on purpose, when it's much much more likely we just made a simple lapse in judgement that can be easily rectified!

tl;dr, one side thinks way too inside the box, the other side throws any and all attempts at guessing who the next ones might be in the trash and either don't give any actual examples as to overlooked curveball picks or suggest complete randos all for the sake of being different, both of them are no bueno and we should try to find a middle ground

oh my god am i turning into Jones

 

[WeirdChillFever]

My approach to this pass has been to zig along with the crowd, but zag when neccessary. I feel the “company-based” approach that people have adopted works, but keeping some branches open on each path (Consider Morrigan instead of Dante, Lu Bu instead of Ryu) helps to use speculation in an open-minded way.

 

[Strife]

I was actually thinking this for our second unique SF rep:

V-Skill: Standard down-B
V-Trigger: Smash input down-B, can only use when meter is full
V-Reversal: Press A+B while parrying, uses half of the meter.

Oh you're thinking about adding the entirey of the V mechanic to the character? Well I suppose why not.

Also Steve too is also super fast frame data wise. His slowest move is down air at 20 frames. All of his other moves are pretty fast.

I was thinking Steve was actually more on the average side of frame data. But Idk who is the benchmark to compare him to, because Mario is actually fast. People like to point to pit, but his moves actually tend to have fast startup and slower cool down so idk.

 

[Greyfox22]

I'm having a hard time dealing with the reality of Ganondorf's moveset lately. I feel like the respect that Sephiroth got triggered it. WHY is he like this? I would've happily left him out of Melee if I knew this was going to happen. He should be reflecting projectiles instead of being dominated by them. He should have his own projectile.

I understand there are people that like his moveset, but surely there's a compromise we can reach? Probably will never happen unless Sakurai steps down from Smash, but I feel like simply changing his specials would do it. Let him keep flame choke, but give him Deadman's Volley, Float, and a cape parry. That would flesh out his options so much and make him that much more true to his original character.

I guess I'm just kind of babbling. I'm grateful he's in the game at all, but this just gets me down every so often. Smash would be nearly perfect to me if they gave Ganondorf a decent overall.

Any encouraging words for me? Lol

I think it`s kind of tricky to try and change a well-established character so drastically. Melee`s been out since 2001 and a lot of people are attached to his moveset as is and have been playing him for a long time. The best case scenario is a second Ganondorf on the roster. One that reflects his Ocarina of Time abilities more accurately. Then everyone can be happy.

Personally, though, I don`t understand why Ganondorf gets singled out so much for having a bad/inaccurate moveset. He doesn't use many attacks taken from specific source material but I think he definitely feels enough like Ganondorf. I mean he is a Captain Falcon clone but Captain Falcon's moveset is even less representative of the character/source material.

 

[Strife]

This is probably a side effect on a focus on characters rather than playstyles when it comes to roster considerations, as the DLC so far has been:

• Wat?
• Probably supposed to be rush down, but is good at everything.
• Zoner
• Zoner, but like, Y tho? I almost wonder if he was supposed to be an all-rounder like Mario, but his kit is unbalanced.
• All-rounder, but leaning toward the grappler style of play where it's harder to get in, but more rewarding if you do.
• Zoner
• Zoner
• Zoner, but instead of using projectiles or disjointed hitboxes, he just runs away. Until he doesn't and you take 50%.
• Zoner

Good take on Banjo, never realized that. You see Sephiroth as a Zoner? He has two projectiles, but I mean so does Joker. I see him closer to being a glass canon kind of character, which smash has never really had. They've been more glass machine guns lol.

I meant the mechanic of being able to run in eight different directions, which is a big part of SC gameplay

I actually don't remember the game being like that. I mean you could side step in a direction away from your opponent, but being able to move horizontally was for the most part usually as you were always locked on to your character. I really don't think that needs to be incorporated, I mean Arms being 3d wasn't incorporated for MinMin

 

[SharkLord]

There's two very noticeable extremes in thought process that I've seen Smash spec adopt lately.

There's the "wow i was NOT expecting that character anyway my predictions for the rest of the pass are crash dante and master chief" and the "SHUT UP about all these stupid commonly-discussed characters you PLEBS don't you know we NEVER get anything right? In fact I'm fully expecting Sakurai to throw us yet another curveball and announce Paul Blart as the next DLC character"

I'm not a fan of either mindset, tbh. The first one often shows a lack of will to dig deeper and explore new options, while the second one frequently reeks of contrarianism and randomness for the sake of it, often not bothering to give examples or elaborate on why those randos would be picked other than "well, Sakurai likes to throw curveballs at us!"

I'd rather we take a more balanced approach to all this. Yes, the more commonly-discussed characters make sense, they have reasons to be picked and it makes sense they're brought up so often. But on the other hand, if we keep getting blindsided like we just did with Sephiroth, then maybe it wouldn't hurt to expand our horizons beyond the same 10 or so people and explore some alternative options. But on the other other hand, if we're to bring up these crazy hamboorgers in the context of serious speculation, then I feel like we kinda gotta look for choices that still make sense and that we might be legitimately overlooking. Whenever we get a more unexpected choice, people basically act like "the madman Sakurai throwing curveballs at us yet again" as if he looked for characters that aren't as requested or talked about on purpose, when it's much much more likely we just made a simple lapse in judgement that can be easily rectified!

tl;dr, one side thinks way too inside the box, the other side throws any and all attempts at guessing who the next ones might be in the trash and suggest complete randos for the sake of being different, both of them are no bueno and we should try to find a middle ground

oh my god am i turning into Jones

Ah yes,

Weedposting

But yeah, I agree. We've been trucking along with the same guys the whole way through, but a lot of the time attempts to look into less likely characters seem to carry a smug "You guys are useless and NEVER get anything right!" sort of vibe. Look for less likely characters who, even with a barricade, have a fair bit of merit to them.

 

[Oracle Link]

There's two very noticeable extremes in thought process that I've seen Smash spec adopt lately.

There's the "wow i was NOT expecting that character anyway my predictions for the rest of the pass are crash dante and master chief" and the "SHUT UP about all these stupid commonly-discussed characters you PLEBS don't you know we NEVER get anything right? In fact I'm fully expecting Sakurai to throw us yet another curveball and announce Paul Blart as the next DLC character"

I'm not a fan of either mindset, tbh. The first one often shows a lack of will to dig deeper and explore new options, while the second one frequently reeks of contrarianism and randomness for the sake of it, often not bothering to give examples or elaborate on why those randos would be picked other than "well, Sakurai likes to throw curveballs at us!"

I'd rather we take a more balanced approach to all this. Yes, the more commonly-discussed characters make sense, they have reasons to be picked and it makes sense they're brought up so often. But on the other hand, if we keep getting blindsided like we just did with Sephiroth, then maybe it wouldn't hurt to expand our horizons beyond the same 10 or so people and explore some alternative options. But on the other other hand, if we're to bring up these crazy hamboorgers in the context of serious speculation, then I feel like we kinda gotta look for choices that still make sense and that we might be legitimately overlooking. Whenever we get a more unexpected choice, people basically act like "the madman Sakurai throwing curveballs at us yet again" as if he looked for characters that aren't as requested or talked about on purpose, when it's much much more likely we just made a simple lapse in judgement that can be easily rectified!

tl;dr, one side thinks way too inside the box, the other side throws any and all attempts at guessing who the next ones might be in the trash and suggest complete randos for the sake of being different, both of them are no bueno and we should try to find a middle ground

oh my god am i turning into Jones

my opinion on this matter is
Steve:
Others : "What Steve is in the Game Yeeeeeeeeees/Noooooooooooooooo! i didnt expect that
Me: Ahh its Steve makes sense!

Predictions/Hopes:
Others: Crash, Dante, Masterchief/Doomguy and Sora!
Me: Bandana Dee, Impa and Porky(hope)/Egmann(Prediction)

Sephiroth:
Others: Nooooooo Sora and Geno i didnt expect that
me: Yes another Badguy more Hero/Villan Battles

Bandana Dee
Others: Hes Stupid everyone who wants him is Toxic Why didnt i get a disney Character and a Full fledged obscour one off
Bandana Dee Fanbase: Hello everyone im glad youre happy lets hope he gets in next time

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Ah yes,

Weedposting

But yeah, I agree. We've been trucking along with the same guys the whole way through, but a lot of the time attempts to look into less likely characters seem to carry a smug "You guys are useless and NEVER get anything right!" sort of vibe. Look for less likely characters who, even with a barricade, have a fair bit of merit to them.

The contrarian vibe comes from the misconceptions that fanrules are like Da Rules from Fairly Odd Parents rather than a set of factors that hinder and help characters to varying degrees and can be disregarded when taking into account other factors. Contrarian speculation has mostly been build-a-bear with combining broken fanrules to justify characters with K. Rool’s recency issues without his massive fan support and importance in hus series.

 

[Nightguything]

Not to back track cause I’m a couple pages behind, but those saying that anniversaries don’t matter in smash seemed to have skipped over the fact that Sephiroth was literally released a day before the original Final fantasy’s release date. Doesn’t seem like a coincidence to me

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Not to back track cause I’m a couple pages behind, but those saying that anniversaries don’t matter in smash seemed to have skipped over the fact that Sephiroth was literally released a day before the original Final fantasy’s release date. Doesn’t seem like a coincidence to me

Right, but imo there’s a difference between revealing a character on an anniversary and picking a character because they have an anniversary coming up.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

really don't think that needs to be incorporated, I mean Arms being 3d wasn't incorporated for MinMin

That’s why I said I didn’t feel it was needed to make a Soul character feel faithful.

As long as there are ways to chain normals for 2-3 hit combos and some kind of stance system when holding tilts, Nightmare is pretty much going to feel faithful no matter how he’s handled.

Armor break mechanic (as in Nightmare’s armor breaks if he’s hit too much) could be a really neat thing too. DLC has had a ton of comeback mechanics, so seeing the opposite would be refreshing

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

There's two very noticeable extremes in thought process that I've seen Smash spec adopt lately.

There's the "wow i was NOT expecting that character anyway my predictions for the rest of the pass are crash dante and master chief" and the "SHUT UP about all these stupid commonly-discussed characters you PLEBS don't you know we NEVER get anything right? In fact I'm fully expecting Sakurai to throw us yet another curveball and announce Paul Blart as the next DLC character"

I'm not a fan of either mindset, tbh. The first one often shows a lack of will to dig deeper and explore new options, while the second one frequently reeks of contrarianism and randomness for the sake of it, often not bothering to give examples or elaborate on why those randos would be picked other than "well, Sakurai likes to throw curveballs at us!"

I'd rather we take a more balanced approach to all this. Yes, the more commonly-discussed characters make sense, they have reasons to be picked and it makes sense they're brought up so often. But on the other hand, if we keep getting blindsided like we just did with Sephiroth, then maybe it wouldn't hurt to expand our horizons beyond the same 10 or so people and explore some alternative options. But on the other other hand, if we're to bring up these crazy hamboorgers in the context of serious speculation, then I feel like we kinda gotta look for choices that still make sense and that we might be legitimately overlooking. Whenever we get a more unexpected choice, people basically act like "the madman Sakurai throwing curveballs at us yet again" as if he looked for characters that aren't as requested or talked about on purpose, when it's much much more likely we just made a simple lapse in judgement that can be easily rectified!

tl;dr, one side thinks way too inside the box, the other side throws any and all attempts at guessing who the next ones might be in the trash and suggest complete randos for the sake of being different, both of them are no bueno and we should try to find a middle ground

oh my god am i turning into Jones

Honestly, I think side 1 is as balanced as it's going to be at the moment. We are generally accepting of the smaller characters, but since they are smaller, there are less people to talk about them because there are less people who know and love them. I do believe the character radius has branched out nonetheless. Maybe it's not ideal, and I think it could improve further with the realization that disconfirmations are as dubious as they are rigid, but it's certainly a heck of a lot better than it was at the end of Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS/Wii U's DLC where everyone was bored of the current characters that they were talking about but also didn't believe that anyone else had a shot so they began arguing about things to argue about. It was dumb.

I'm...not fond of side 2. I feel like it's a response to the feeling that side 1 gatekeeps, which is true sometimes, but not usually, at least at the moment. However, it's literally gatekeeping in the other direction as an attempt to get people to stop talking about the commonly discussed characters entirely. The fact that the common argument for this is "you were wrong about x so you're going to be wrong about y" doesn't really help because it's both not a good argument as to why we shouldn't talk about certain characters, and kinda misses the point of why we speculate in the first place.

 

[Strife]

That’s why I said I didn’t feel it was needed to make a Soul character feel faithful.

As long as there are ways to chain normals and some kind of stance system when holding tilts, Nightmare is pretty much going to feel faithful no matter how he’s handled.

Armor break mechanic (as in Nightmare’s armor breaks if he’s hit too much) could be a really neat thing too. DLC has had a ton of comeback mechanics, so seeing the opposite would be refreshing

Again I don't know why people keep trying to push for Nightmare. Of all the SC characters it shouldn't be him. It would show a lack of creativity on Sakurai/the developers part. I'd really like it to be Cervantes. I'd have said Ivy, but MinMin was created for the range, and we already have a chain sword in Byleth. Probably the most fun char they could pick is Yoshimitsu. Which would actually be super cool, because they could use both SC and Tekken mechanics.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Again I don't know why people keep trying to push for Nightmare. Of all the SC characters it shouldn't be him. It would show a lack of creativity on Sakurai/the developers part. I'd really like it to be Cervantes. I'd have said Ivy, but MinMin was created for the range, and we already have a chain sword in Byleth. Probably the most fun char they could pick is Yoshimitsu. Which would actually be super cool, because they could use both SC and Tekken mechanics.

Are you implying Nightmare can’t be a creative pick? The stances alone could give him an archetype Smash never truly had, let alone any of the universal gameplay mechanics.

He may not be the most unique SC character, but in the context of Smash, he’d be one of the most unique additions ever.

 

[Flik]

Sephiroth's victory screen completely hides his teamates in Team Battles (if he gets the best score), what a attention ***** lol

I like the idea of Siegfried being an alt for Nightmare, better than just being his mindless host. They'd need to make Nightmare a bit less savage, but it doesn't bother me one bit.

And I feel like 100% we won't get both my two most wanted Anime Swordfighters. Getting either of them seems hard already, but both?


Eh, what can I do

 

[Deleted member]

We need the king himself, Rex, so he can swap between being swordie Ganondorf & swordie Sheik at the press of a button and no this is not a thinly veiled Latin joke it just turned out that way

 

[Oracle Link]

Honestly, I think side 1 is as balanced as it's going to be at the moment. We are generally accepting of the smaller characters, but since they are smaller, there are less people to talk about them because there are less people who know and love them. I do believe the character radius has branched out nonetheless. Maybe it's not ideal, and I think it could improve further with the realization that disconfirmations are as dubious as they are rigid, but it's certainly a heck of a lot better than it was at the end of Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS/Wii U's DLC where everyone was bored of the current characters that they were talking about but also didn't believe that anyone else had a shot so they began arguing about things to argue about. It was dumb.

I'm...not fond of side 2. I feel like it's a response to the feeling that side 1 gatekeeps, which is true sometimes, but not usually, at least at the moment. However, it's literally gatekeeping in the other direction as an attempt to get people to stop talking about the commonly discussed characters entirely. The fact that the common argument for this is "you were wrong about x so you're going to be wrong about y" doesn't really help because it's both not a good argument as to why we shouldn't talk about certain characters, and kinda misses the point of why we speculate in the first place.

yeah but they are also surprised about steve figgin Steve from Minecraft the most sold Game
(luckily Wii sports is not on this place it Cheated)

 

[Strife]

Are you implying Nightmare can’t be a creative pick? The stances alone could give him an archetype Smash never truly had, let alone any of the universal gameplay mechanics.

He may not be the most unique SC character, but in the context of Smash, he’d be one of the most unique additions ever.

I think he would be a boringly similar pick to Sephiroth. They even kind of look the same, and I think thier are more appropriate picks available. Even within the SC series, Nightmare entire shtick is he does a lot of damage and his sword covers a lot of space, does that sound similar to you?

I actually don't remember Nightmare having a second stance, only remember him holding his claymore like a broad sword.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You see Sephiroth as a Zoner? He has two projectiles, but I mean so does Joker. I see him closer to being a glass canon kind of character, which smash has never really had. They've been more glass machine guns lol.

He's a character with big disjointed projectiles that doesn't really respond well to pressure, and wants to keep you at arm's length as a result. I think that makes him a zoner even if he is a glass cannon. Besides, glass cannons aren't so much a playstyle as they are a...mindset, for lack of a better term. For example, Pichu and Jigglypuff are also both glass cannons, but they play absolutely nothing alike.

I think he would be a boringly similar pick to Sephiroth. They even kind of look the same...

Yeah, they both have...4 limbs and...humanoid body types...

 

[Oracle Link]

He's a character with big disjointed projectiles that doesn't really respond well to pressure, and wants to keep you at arm's length as a result. I think that makes him a zoner even if he is a glass cannon. Besides, glass cannons aren't so much a playstyle as they are a...mindset, for lack of a better term. For example, Pichu and Jigglypuff are also both glass cannons, but they play absolutely nothing alike.


Yeah, they both have...4 limbs and...humanoid body types...
View attachment 296376View attachment 296377

And a Sword here i know someone else that looks similar me!

 

[SharkLord]

I think he would be a boringly similar pick to Sephiroth. They even kind of look the same, and I think thier are more appropriate picks available. Even within the SC series, Nightmare entire shtick is he does a lot of damage and his sword covers a lot of space, does that sound similar to you?

I actually don't remember Nightmare having a second stance, only remember him holding his claymore like a broad sword.

Okay but does Sephiroth's sword have an eye that could hypothetically be used to stare at you in an uncomfortable manner for an uncomfortable amount of time?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

yeah but they are also surprised about steve figgin Steve from Minecraft the most sold Game
(luckily Wii sports is not on this place it Cheated)

I think that was more due to Steve not really being on the brain rather than people dismissing him as an option.

Also it's freaking Steve from Minecraft! How do you not get surprised?

Okay but does Sephiroth's sword have an eye that could hypothetically be used to stare at you in an uncomfortable manner for an uncomfortable amount of time?

Mom help. It's eye is following me.

 

[Oracle Link]

I think that was more due to Steve not really being on the brain rather than people dismissing him as an option.

Also it's freaking Steve from Minecraft! How do you not get surprised?


Mom help. It's eye is following me.

i mean Mario was in Minecraft so i already expect him at some point to be fair the biggest suprises nowadys would be characters like Bandana Dee or Porky

 

[Arcanir]

Seven Squares popped up in like.... I wanna say early January 2019?

Thanks.

After looking through GameFAQs, I finally found it. The original DM with the list came out around late November, around the 29th. Verge mentioned that he had the list even earlier as we have this thread from around November 2nd that talks about a post he made earlier. So it looks like the names were floating around for over a month if we are to believe Verge on this, and it was public for over two weeks before the 5ch rumor with Chun-Li/Tales.

Interestingly enough, the DM mentions that Slime only came up once and both Luminary and Erdrick could share a slot together. We know Slime was a consideration if the Hero couldn't be acquired and the original plan for Hero was the Luminary and Erdrick sharing a slot before they got the ability to use Eight and Solo so that fits the information we have surprisingly well.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Comparing Nightmare to Sephiroth due to both being villains and having incredibly large sword or saying Dante is similar to Sephiroth because both are anime swordsmen with white hair is the equivalent of calling Terry "Hat Ken".

It's just flat out incorrect.

 

[Strife]

He's a character with big disjointed projectiles that doesn't really respond well to pressure, and wants to keep you at arm's length as a result. I think that makes him a zoner even if he is a glass cannon. Besides, glass cannons aren't so much a playstyle as they are a...mindset, for lack of a better term. For example, Pichu and Jigglypuff are also both glass cannons, but they play absolutely nothing alike.


Yeah, they both have...4 limbs and...humanoid body types...
View attachment 296376View attachment 296377

I think you're confusing the term light weight with glass cannons. Jiggilypuff has a single high damaging move, she is not a glass cannon. The term glass canon, is often misused in the smash communities anyways, perhaps prepatch Pichu was a glass a canon but he isn't anymore. He just has long combo strings, his archtype is more similar to Shiek than anything. The point of glass cannon is they hit hard, that's Sephiorth not Jigglypuff. Its an archetype, not a mechanic.

And I don't consider Sephiroth a zoner because his projectiles suck for zoning, his neutral b is way too slow to zone and his side b has to short range and has no hitstun. Having long range doesn't make you a zoner, by that logic all sword characters are zoners, which is pretty silly. Having a poor disadvantage state doesn't make you a zooner either. Take Greninja(rush down) who has poor get off me options and Pacman(zoner) who has a good disadvantage state. The more I write on this topic is the more I realize you don't know what you're talking about.

And yes I think there is a resemblance. I hope I attached them right.

 

[Strife]

Okay but does Sephiroth's sword have an eye that could hypothetically be used to stare at you in an uncomfortable manner for an uncomfortable amount of time?
View attachment 296378

Sakurai: "Sephiroth's most distinctive feature is his long murasame sword"
Sakurai: Nightmare's most distinctive feature is his huge broadsword with an eye in it"

So creative

Whoops double post