Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Shroob]

So going through things, it looks like our timeline for potential early development leaks/rumors so far is:

August 2018: Verge mentions a second SE rep (can't find the original post, but there are a number of threads that pop up during that month referring to it).
August 8th: Imran alludes to a second Namco and SE rep in a tweet.
October 12th: Imran clarifies that he was only talking about SE.
November 2nd: Verge mentions a list of seven SE characters, but doesn't say who.
November 28th/29th: The DM of said list leaks out, confirms the list to be Slime, Erdrick, Luminary, Sephiroth, Geno, Sora, and Crono. Also has some details on inner speculation such as Erdrick and Luminary sharing a slot, Sora was not the character, and Geno was not taken seriously as an option.
December 19th: The Chun-Li/Tales of rumor is posted. Mentions Chun-Li, Lloyd/Yuri, Steve (as default Minecraft guy), Erdrick, and Sephiroth as notable considerations/worked on, says Sora and Geno were rejected for not being able to include other Disney characters and being too tied to Smash to be viable respectively.
December 31st: Tansut mentions that DQ is coming, but is not far along.
January 3rd 2019: Brave is datamined alongside Jack (Joker) and Pakkun (Piranha Plant). Speculation determines that it means "Yuusha", which is a common name for Hero.

Minecraft content was also mentioned on May 30th by Verge, but that information seems to be more contested from my understanding.

Anything else that I may be missing here?

That's more or less the jist of it, yeah.

It definitely feels like the leak has legs to stand on, but March will be pivitol for it. If Chun doesn't show up at all, then it's going to be very interesting who does.


I do find it very strange though that despite Capcom being soo content happy in Smash that Street Fighter has a total of 0 Mii costumes, not even of Chun Li. That sounds like an absolute no-brainer, considering her importance to gaming, being up there with Samus and Lara Croft as one of the earliest prioneers for women in video games.

 

[N3ON]

For Steve, I think it was both a "no because I don't like him" and a genuine concern depending on who it was. Those that genuinely believed this tend to still believe this from what I've seen.


Which is a shame really. People moving on is normal. Newer things come by and interests shift, but I feel like a lot of characters get thrown out (particularly from Pokémon and The Legend of Zelda) because of the perception that Nintendo would never add them.

Sadly this perception affecting popularity also makes it true since without relevancy, the characters would have to be picks for the fans, and since the fans have a hard time rallying behind characters with no hope, they don't get added, which reinforces the mentality that they have no hope.

I wonder just how much this cycle would break if a character that has been rotated out gets added. Would support for Lyn, the Skull Kid, and various older, but popular Pokémon be renewed or would they just be viewed as exceptions, causing everything to stay the same.

EDIT: It would be kind of funny if they added...I dunno, Arceus or something, and then the Pokémon fans went "ZOMG, this means there's a chance for Scizor, Grovyle, Sceptile, Blaziken, Chandelure, Heracross, Karrablast, Eevee, Mimikyu, Empoleon, Lycanroc..."

Well if one character in such a situation like Skull Kid or Lyn really took off in popularity, and it got them included, I think the fanbase would probably attribute it to them getting in on the grounds of K. Rool and Ridley and such before them, rather than Smash actively looking to buck the trend of missed the boat additions.

I'm sure it would be used to justify the other picks by the respective fanbases, but I doubt that the fanbase at large would see it as a sea change as much as just popularity again saving an otherwise (misnomered) "irrelevant" character. Like if Isaac got in, I'm not expecting it would relaunch the popularity of Saki and Starfy and Andy and such as much as people would just figure it was due to his popularity.

But maybe I'm misjudging things.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I mean yesterday was pretty Chun-Li centric towards the end.

Something that makes me doubt Chun-Li is that her deal had actual closure. Steve, Sephiroth, Erdrick, and the Tales of duo just "disappeared," while Chun-Li was stated to have been replaced by Ken. It seems to me that her deal was changed into Ken's rather than being put on hold or cancelled entirely.

I still stand by the theory of the Tales rep being held off to see how well Berseria did, in case Velvet could be a viable option as well. Remember that the base game's roster was finalized in 2015, while Berseria was released the following year and then localized the year after. Vesperia DE could also be a reason as well, having released in 2019. That could also be something Nintendo and/or Bamco could've been evaluating; Since FP2 was allegedly finalized around E3 2019, there would still be time to wait and see.

Of course, Lloyd's game has more influence and he's been a major request for long time. It's entirely possible-Likely, even-That he could still get chosen over Velvet or Yuri, even with their recent releases.

I think Lloyd and Yuri are more likely than Velvet. Both of their games seem to have more influence (especially Lloyd's familiarity with the Nintendo base) and Yuri had that infamous "getting banned from popularity polls due to being too popular" thing.

Man, I would have loved to get Alucard, especially after playing through Symphony of the Night recently. I wonder if we did get him people would say Sephiroth is too similar though because of the sword and silver hair...

It makes sense that new franchises would be prioritized but I'm definitely into the idea of more secondary third party characters. After so many crazy new additions to smash I just like the idea of fleshing out already present series rosters. Plus, there's so many great potential characters from series already in smash; Sonic, Final Fantasy, Street Fighter, Castlevania ect.

Tbh, I'd rather have new franchises, but if I'm being honest, that's mostly because I want other characters from Sega, Konami, Capcom and SE.

That said, I can't say I'm disappointed with this development either. Not even close.

 

[Shroob]

If I'm wrong, hey, I'm wrong, but this leak feels a little too real to me.

The fact that this came only like, 12~ days after the game came out, and we're only now discussing stuff this year that it talked about all the way back then is eye opening, if nothing else. Confirmed? No. Lucky guesses? Quite possibly, but if any post-Launch leak has ever felt more legit than just a credible insider going "HEY GUYS GUESS WHAT" shortly before a reveal, it'd have to be this.

By no means confirmed, quite possibly nothing more than lucky guesses, but this one's definitely one to keep an eye on.

 

[Strife]

Maybe I'm wrong, but wasn't Siegfreid-Nightmare considered the (Still villainous) protagonist of SoulCalibur II?

if you actually read the story line, Nightmare, Ashtaroth and Ivy were the antagonists and they were defeated by the protagonists Killik, Maxi and the dancing girls whose name I forget right now.

It is an archetype, it's just really broad. The only requirements are explosive power in exchange for cruddy surviveability. Pichu fits this to a T by being light, and dealing a crap ton of damage, but also harming himself in the process. Jigglypuff's damage output is higher than one might expect, with almost all of her aerial attacks doing over 10%. This along with its speed in the air allows it to do a lot of damage, then escape. If it does not escape, then it's likely to be K.O.ed due to its low weight.

Not all glass cannons are as such due to a low weight though. Little Mac is fairly light, but he's not a featherweight. Instead, he has explosive power on the ground but his disadvantage state is just...the worst. Most notably with his recovery being pretty nonexistent. It can even be argued that Ganondorf is a glass cannon since like with Little Mac, he's absurdly powerful in exchange for the worst recovery in the game, which gets him killed pretty early half the time.

"almost all of her aerial attacks doing over 10%." isn't impressive, its just not weak. The same applies to a character like Lucina. Again by your logic a character like Shiek would also fit as a glass cannon because she can string damaging combos together, which a lot of people will tell you is a silly description of her.

Fair point about Little mac, idk what you're talking about Ganon though, his recovery is fine. It has a bigger hitbox and goes a lot further than you might expect.

Projectile zoners are only one type of zoner. While Sephiroth's projectiles are terrible for zoning, his normals are great for it due to their range, and their lack of safety up close encourages this behavior. You are correct in that traits like long range and poor disadvantage states do not make a zoner on their own, but together, they are textbook qualities.

Also, while not all sword characters are zoners, most of them are, either being apart of the swordsman archetype (Marth, Byleth, Corrin, etc.) or the projectile zoner archetype (Link, Robin, Mii Swordfighter, etc.). There are outliers like Roy, who uses shorter and quicker swings to rush you down, Cloud, who's more of an all-rounder, and Ike, who blurs the line between swordsman and grappler/super heavyweight, but most of them want to keep you away with big, disjointed hitboxes.

Sephiroth's sword attacks are terrible for zoning because of thier slow start up and long cool down. He cannot spam attacks and keep you out because except for a select few, his attacks aren't safe on block or on whiff. Which is the antithesis of a zoner. The optimal way to play him is either bait and punish or hard reads, he plays a lot more like a heavy character(although I think he has worse frame data than Ganon) or a grappler character. Which is the very spirit of a glass canon.

I think you see projectiles, long sword and weak up close automatically think he is a zoner character. But this is a terrible way of understanding what zoning actually is.

I guess I can kinda see it in those two images, but that's not Nightmare's usual design, and would likely get in as an alternate costume if it gets in at all. Looking at both characters's main character designs though, there's no resemblance.

[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure in Soul Calibur II the helmetless(not shirtless) version of Nightmare was the default skin. The point is they're both tall long haired swordsmen with huge swords. No reason for them both to be right next to each other in the fighters pass. Its terrible for diversity.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

I feel like if we were to get a second Non Echo Third Party character, it'd either be from Sonic or Street Fighter. Tails/Eggman or Chun-Li specifically. Both franchises have their own iconic characters that fill the gap easily and can bring in new content. I doubt we'd see it this pass but if we do, I'd put money on Chun-Li for being influential in Female representation in video games as the first playable female in a fighting game, paving way for a lot more female representation into video games so she has her own legacy.

It's just my little thoughts at least.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Fair point about Little mac, idk what you're talking about Ganon though, his recovery is fine. It has a bigger hitbox and goes a lot further than you might expect.

Ganon's recovery is not fine, it's bad. It's a bottom 3 recovery. It's not the distance that makes it poor (Though the distance isn't great either) it's the fact that it's so slow to hit the ledge, which makes it incredibly easy to edgeguard him. In addition he has little mixups due to how aerial Side-B works.

 

[SharkLord]

I think Lloyd and Yuri are more likely than Velvet. Both of their games seem to have more influence (especially Lloyd's familiarity with the Nintendo base) and Yuri had that infamous "getting banned from popularity polls due to being too popular" thing.

Yeah, Velvet would be a darkhorse in this situation. Berseria's pretty popular, but it's not quite a Persona 5 situation, seeing as Symphonia broke it out in the West over a decade ago.

That being said, I'd still keep my eye on her, just in case. Best to consider every option.

 

[Shroob]

So what do we call this?

The 'other' 5ch leak?

Chun/Tales of leak?

Chun Leak?

 

[SharkLord]

Chun Leak?

I mean, Chun-Li does seem to be the one we focus on mainly. We might as well call it that.

Though if we're being serious it seems that the Chun-Li/Tales leak is the name we've settled on. Personally, I prefer the name "Dropped Deals Leak." If we just say something like "Chun-Lloyd" or whatever people will just think it's another "Hey guys (X) is the next fighter!!!" type of thing.

 

[3BitSaurus]

So what do we call this?

The 'other' 5ch leak?

Chun/Tales of leak?

Chun Leak?

My vote goes for "Chun Leak". The more pun-like, the better.

 

[Strife]

Ganon's recovery is not fine, it's bad. It's a bottom 3 recovery. It's not the distance that makes it poor (Though the distance isn't great either) it's the fact that it's so slow to hit the ledge, which makes it incredibly easy to edgeguard him. In addition he has little mixups due to how aerial Side-B works.

Unless you have a disjoint its not easy to punish ganon because of how large his up hitbox is, and a second hitbox remains after the first one goes away. Watch Nairo vs Light for example, Light had a very hard time trying to edge guard Nairo. He gave up on that pretty early.

Lemme blow your mind then because he actually has THREE alternate stances.

One where he carries the sword on his back, which boosts his overall mobility.

One where he holds it to the side (it’s more obvious in older games since his default stance isn’t similar to that stance)

And a third one where he’s in a constant crouching state.

All of these stances completely change his normals, giving him some really good mixup potential if used right.

Ugh, compared to Yoshimitu and Mitsurugi, those stances are so bland, but I could see them implementing them fairly well in smash setting(especially the increased mobility one) hard to imagine Nightmare have a small hitbox while couching but it could work.

Having completely different normals would be cool. I mean he is not a terrible choice really, I just think its a poor choice right after Sephiroth. I was excited for Nightmare before a Sephiroth receal.

 

[Shroob]

I mean, Chun-Li does seem to be the one we focus on mainly. We might as well call it that.

Though if we're being serious it seems that the Chun-Li/Tales leak is the name we've settled on. Personally, I prefer the name "Dropped Deals Leak." If we just say something like "Chun-Lloyd" or whatever people will just think it's another "Hey guys (X) is the next fighter!!!" type of thing.

I think the main thing about Chun as to why we focus on her is simple:

Capcom's on everyone's mind due to March, and we kinda know now they hold Mii costumes. With how few Mii costumes from Smash 4 are left, while it's not 100% that the next character is a Capcom character, I'd be 100$ that they bring the MonHun costumes back in March for Rise's release, and as we've seen with Joker, Hero and Square, it 'does' seem like they do consolidate companies into a single pack if able when a character is up for grabs.


Sure, it could be another Capcom character entirely, but thanks to ol Sephiroth, Chun Li was one of the first characters brought up after his reveal, and this supposed leak has really only strengthened her support.


There's also the fact that there are 0 Street Fighter Miis and that's hella sus but that's tinfoil hattery.

 

[Arcanir]

That's more or less the jist of it, yeah.

It definitely feels like the leak has legs to stand on, but March will be pivitol for it. If Chun doesn't show up at all, then it's going to be very interesting who does.


I do find it very strange though that despite Capcom being soo content happy in Smash that Street Fighter has a total of 0 Mii costumes, not even of Chun Li. That sounds like an absolute no-brainer, considering her importance to gaming, being up there with Samus and Lara Croft as one of the earliest prioneers for women in video games.

I'm half and half on the absence of her (and SF) Mii Costume. On the one hand the Smash team has been handling the Third Party Mii Costumes differently in general. None of the Third Party franchises got costumes in the base game, and even now we're still missing Metal Gear and Castlevania costumes despite also being base game franchises (and Pac-Man, but it's been an oddity). Both of those franchises similarly have characters that would be no-brainers for Mii Costumes such as Alucard, but is not commonly speculated to have a character (whether from their respective franchises or Konami in general), so SF's situation isn't necessarily unusual at this point in time.

That said, we have seen many franchises get filled out as time went on. Sonic, Mega Man and FF got their old costumes back on top of new ones for the latter, and Bomberman got a new costume with the Steve pack which implies that they are willing to go back to smaller franchises that were included and expand on them as well. With that in mind, it's entirely possible that SF, along with Castlevania and Metal Gear, will get at least a couple costumes as well in the future. It's just a matter of what the plan is for when they drop them, as while speculation is pointing to a Capcom character, it's also possible they just drop with a random set like Mega Man's with Banjo's and Byleth's.

 

[Eldrake]

The Chun-Li thing is a strange one because I swear I've read Sakurai admit at some point in 2018 or 2019 that Chun-Li was considered but didn't make the cut for whatever reason, but I can't find that statement. I am guessing I was hallucinating it.

 

[I.D.]

Edit: i don't think it's a good idea to count subsidiary company's as a seperate company because legally they really aren't

Yes they are, that's the whole point of subsidiary companies, otherwise they would just get integrated into the main company as divisions.
I understand the point you were trying to make though.

 

[SNEKeater]

Man, I would have loved to get Alucard, especially after playing through Symphony of the Night recently. I wonder if we did get him people would say Sephiroth is too similar though because of the sword and silver hair...

It makes sense that new franchises would be prioritized but I'm definitely into the idea of more secondary third party characters. After so many crazy new additions to smash I just like the idea of fleshing out already present series rosters. Plus, there's so many great potential characters from series already in smash; Sonic, Final Fantasy, Street Fighter, Castlevania ect.

Same. I'd have liked Alucard more, but I admit that the Belmonts were the best choice to rep Castlevania. Specially when you can justify a second character as an echo fighter.

Alucard to me is one of those characters I'd absolutely adore in Smash but felt like never evers. But now that Sephiroth ins in the game, it doesn't seem completely impossible.

 

[NintenRob]

I've been following this leak very closely, and I don't find the lack of any Smash info suspicious. Only about 10% of the information that was stolen is out yet, and we're already past stuff like Resident Evil 8 and Street Fighter 6. I imagine that it'll turn up at some point - especially as, like others mentioned, we should hear about Smash at least for the returning Mii Costumes.

Thanks for confirming my suspicions that this person copies all of their posts from other websites. Makes sense with how they all have different writing styles and more often than not are non-sequiturs unrelated to current discussion.

He does it to others? Thats just weird and makes no sense

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Ugh, compared to Yoshimitu and Mitsurugi, those stances are so bland, but I could see them implementing them fairly well in smash setting(especially the increased mobility one) hard to imagine Nightmare have a small hitbox while couching but it could work.

Having completely different normals would be cool. I mean he is not a terrible choice really, I just think its a poor choice right after Sephiroth. I was excited for Nightmare before a Sephiroth receal.

It’s only a poor choice because you keep thinking about the fact that he’s a villain with a big sword.

But this is where the similarities stop between the two when it comes to gameplay.

 

[SharkLord]

Does Nightmare ever have a Doriyah-esque move? I want to put him in the same room as Ganondorf and Ike so we have have a chaotic messy Doriyahfest.

 

[Strife]

It’s only a poor choice because you keep thinking about the fact that he’s a villain with a big sword.

But this is where the similarities stop between the two when it comes to gameplay.

I'd like to rebuttal but I really can't. Well still hoping its not Nightmare. I'd like to root for Yoshimitsu but idk how they make the Pogo stance anything but stupid in this game. And the praying is either going to suck or be broken.

As for SF I know a lot of people are looking at Chun, but I'm hoping its Akuma instead or maybe Cammy.

 

[dream1ng]

An interesting aspect about getting Namco and Capcom characters is that they've been distributing their existing costumes across existing waves as it is, so we either get a bunch more of they come with a random grab-bag, which would be strange.

I'd like to rebuttal but I really can't. Well still hoping its not Nightmare. I'd like to root for Yoshimitsu but idk how they make the Pogo stance anything but stupid in this game. And the praying is either going to suck or be broken.

As for SF I know a lot of people are looking at Chun, but I'm hoping its Akuma instead or maybe Cammy.

I think you're going to be disappointed if you keep hoping they choose characters of lesser prominence.

 

[Strife]

I think you're going to be disappointed if you keep hoping they choose characters of lesser prominence.

I think Akuma is just as big if not bigger than Chun-Li(he is often the crossover guy) and yeah I know Cammy is more of a long-shot but they did choose MinMin over Spring Man and Ribbon Girl

 

[SharkLord]

I think the main thing about Chun as to why we focus on her is simple:

Capcom's on everyone's mind due to March, and we kinda know now they hold Mii costumes. With how few Mii costumes from Smash 4 are left, while it's not 100% that the next character is a Capcom character, I'd be 100$ that they bring the MonHun costumes back in March for Rise's release, and as we've seen with Joker, Hero and Square, it 'does' seem like they do consolidate companies into a single pack if able when a character is up for grabs.


Sure, it could be another Capcom character entirely, but thanks to ol Sephiroth, Chun Li was one of the first characters brought up after his reveal, and this supposed leak has really only strengthened her support.


There's also the fact that there are 0 Street Fighter Miis and that's hella sus but that's tinfoil hattery.

Yeah, I suppose that makes sense. The main thing for me is that Chun-Li got replaced with Ken instead of just "disappearing" like Erdrick or Steve. It puts her more in line with the Squeenix characters discussed, who had actual explanations for their absence. Granted, Sephiroth was also considered but conceded to Erdrick, so...

The other thing is that Street Fighter already has a lot of content, so I'd imagine expanding the current representation beyond the most popular installment would have less priority than updating the miniscule amount of Final Fantasy content.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Guille Mii Costume please just..just do that...

 

[Shroob]

Yeah, I suppose that makes sense. The main thing for me is that Chun-Li got replaced with Ken instead of just "disappearing" like Erdrick or Steve. It puts her more in line with the Squeenix characters discussed, who had actual explanations for their absence. Granted, Sephiroth was also considered but conceded to Erdrick, so...

The other thing is that Street Fighter already has a lot of content, so I'd imagine expanding the current representation beyond the most popular installment would have less priority than updating the miniscule amount of Final Fantasy content.

But at the same time, maybe it's just me, but I find Chun Li's complete absence very strange.

She's not an assist, Guile is.
She's not a Mii costume, because SF doesn't have one.


For basically being Street Fighter's 3rd biggest character, she's just kinda MIA aside from an enchanceable spirit.

 

[dream1ng]

I think Akuma is just as big if not bigger than Chun-Li(he is often the crossover guy) and yeah I know Cammy is more of a long-shot but they did choose MinMin over Spring Man and Ribbon Girl

Chun-Li is without a doubt only matched and possibly outweighed in prevalence by Ryu.

And she would be the equivalent to Min Min here in terms of popularity and visibility. Cammy is more on par with your Guiles and Zangiefs.

 

[kirbsmash]

None of the Third Party franchises got costumes in the base game, and even now we're still missing Metal Gear and Castlevania costumes despite also being base game franchises (and Pac-Man, but it's been an oddity). Both of those franchises similarly have characters that would be no-brainers for Mii Costumes such as Alucard, but is not commonly speculated to have a character (whether from their respective franchises or Konami in general), so SF's situation isn't necessarily unusual at this point in time

this is a good point, so we shouldn't count the mii thing?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Fair point about Little mac, idk what you're talking about Ganon though, his recovery is fine. It has a bigger hitbox and goes a lot further than you might expect.

Ganondorf's recovery is fairly linear; you can either try and recover horizontally with Flame Choke, or try and recover vertically with Dark Dive. Both of these moves are command grabs, which means they both lose to aerial attacks, and they are on the slower side, so it is easier to get into position to gimp the recovery against him. Dark Dive may not have a terrible distance, but because of Ganondorf's slow air speed, he has trouble getting to a spot where it will reach when launched further.

Dark Dive is probably a decent recovery move on its own, but with the rest of Ganondorf's kit, it can't help out enough to make his recovery not a big weakness of his.

Sephiroth's sword attacks are terrible for zoning because of thier slow start up and long cool down. He cannot spam attacks and keep you out because except for a select few, his attacks aren't safe on block or on whiff. Which is the antithesis of a zoner. The optimal way to play him is either bait and punish or hard reads, he plays a lot more like a heavy character(although I think he has worse frame data than Ganon) or a grappler character. Which is the very spirit of a glass canon.

I think you see projectiles, long sword and weak up close automatically think he is a zoner character. But this is a terrible way of understanding what zoning actually is.

Looking at some footage of higher level Sephiroth play, it looks like what the character looks for is Forward and Back Aerial pokes along with more committal approaches with Neutral Aerial. And he will also use Neutral Aerial as a threat to being close to him. He will also use Flare and Shadow Flare to limit options, which is where his bait and punish moves come out with things like Forward Smash, Dash Attack, and grab.

Near as I can tell from both the footage and my experience with the character, his kit is catered toward long range pokes and lingering hitboxes that attempt to make your opponent make mistakes, which is all textbook zoner. I'm not just seeing projectiles and a sword and assuming zoner. I am actually looking at his playstyle here.

EDIT: I should note that I don't think Sephiroth is a keepaway character like Toon Link or Mega Man.

 

[Shroob]

this is a good point, so we shouldn't count the mii thing?

We're absolutely counting it. It's definitely more a tinfoil hat territory thing in SF's missing Mii outfits, since there are other franchises without them, namely the Konami ones, but at the same time, right now at the very least, everyone's going all in on Capcom next.

 

[kirbsmash]

We're absolutely counting it. It's definitely more a tinfoil hat territory thing in SF's missing Mii outfits, since there are other franchises without them, namely the Konami ones, but at the same time, right now at the very least, everyone's going all in on Capcom next.

I mean I get it, but how does this help Capcom's cape anyway ?

 

[SKX31]

This is probably a side effect on a focus on characters rather than playstyles, as the DLC so far has been:

• Wat?
• Probably supposed to be rush down, but is good at everything.
• Zoner
• Zoner, but like, Y tho? I almost wonder if he was supposed to be an all-rounder like Mario, but his kit is unbalanced.
• All-rounder, but leaning toward the grappler style of play where it's harder to get in, but more rewarding if you do.
• Zoner
• Zoner
• Zoner, but instead of using projectiles or disjointed hitboxes, he just runs away. Until he doesn't and you take 50%.
• Zoner

is a new archetype: Ptooie.

Nah, but seriously, Plant is in the same kind of predicament as B-K where Plant has moves that are supposed to be boxing tools (and thus, Plant is supposed to be an all-rounder of sorts), but Plant doesn't have the mobility nor the approach options to make them effective enough. OTOH, Ptooie is a pretty good tool, and Poison Cloud's at least decent at controlling space. Oh, and Plant's also kinda encouraged to zone with Long-Stem Strike. It does - however - create the problem where the characters that can shut down Ptooie consequently shut down a large part of Plant's gameplan ( and are particularily dangerous if they get to Pocket Ptooie). It's in a weird space, and unlike B-K I'm not entirely sure how they should adjust the Plant.

And yes, I also get the impression that is supposed to be an all-rounder, but yeah, their kit is a bit too zoner-favored. It might be partly due to Wonderwing being really strong, but as a result they have few other consistent combo / KO options in a game where like half the cast can blow someone up in multiple ways. They just need some QoL fixes to their frame data - if they got that they'd be in a good spot IMHO.

But at the same time, maybe it's just me, but I find Chun Li's complete absence very strange.

She's not an assist, Guile is.
She's not a Mii costume, because SF doesn't have one.


For basically being Street Fighter's 3rd biggest character, she's just kinda MIA aside from an enchanceable spirit.

TBF, Guile's an assist probably because his neutral's often simplified as "I just crouch - since I can do either Sonic Boom or Flash Kick out of the crouch. I'm never going to move forward (since I need to hold and "charge" back for my specials)."

I wouldn't be surprised if it was just pure time constraints that stopped Chun (and other SF characters besides Guile) from making bigger appearances in the base game. What's a bit weird IMHO is that SF2 makes up the entirety (IIRC) of Street Fighter's music selection, but other entries are represented to some degree with Spirits. It's a similar situation with Megaman, where the other sub series generally got one track (or a couple in X's case) + Spirits, and that's essentially that for base game.

 

[Shroob]

I mean I get it, but how does this help Capcom's cape anyway ?

The Street Fighter costumes don't factor in at all.


People are just assuming that Capcom's next because they've held onto the Monster Hunter costumes for soo long, and March, which is the estimated release date, is the same month as MH Rise, which is a timed Switch exclusive, meaning it's just good business to drop them in the same month. It doesn't HAVE to come with a Capcom character no, but considering we've also seen them hold costumes back to coincide with companies getting a character, it's a split 50/50.

 

[Ivander]

Does Nightmare ever have a Doriyah-esque move? I want to put him in the same room as Ganondorf and Ike so we have have a chaotic messy Doriyahfest.

Close. He doesn't say it, but he has a move that could count for one.

[鬍鬚髒] SoulCalibur II HD online (PS3) Command List - Nightmare

0:00：Horizontal Attacks (40)1:52：Vertical Attacks (48)4:02：Kick Attacks (28)5:26：Throws (6)5:48：Miscellaneous Moves (40)

youtu.be

On the other hand, why not a Warlock Punch equivalent? And instead of a punch, it's a frickin' foot stomp.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I think Akuma is just as big if not bigger than Chun-Li(he is often the crossover guy)

Chun-Li has appeared in more crossovers than Akuma though.

 

[N3ON]

I imagine Nightmare would be a slower, stronger swordsman if added, which would probably hinder his competitive viability but make him a general favourite like Ike and Ganondorf.

Plus if they're smart about it we can get Siegfried as part of the character too.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

There are a lot of characters who should probably get more discussion, but it feels like people shoot them down way too quickly.

CoughYuriLowellCough
No, I wont stop bringing him up until people stop throwing him to the side for Lloyd talk

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I imagine Nightmare would be a slower, stronger swordsman if added, which would probably hinder his competitive viability but make him a general favourite like Ike and Ganondorf.

Plus if they're smart about it we can get Siegfried as part of the character too.

Siegfried would most definitely be the one based on his SC2 alt, mostly because the only time Siegfried has the big meaty claw is when he's Nightmare.

But with that said, I could see the devs treat Nightmare in a similar way to Incineroar; slow, but his frame data is faster than you'd think (though not brokenly so), so Nightmare could effectively work as some kind of berserker character due to his overall range and power.

Combine that with the different stances, the Soul Wave special that gives him a quick AoE burst that can ignore physical blows as well as the Grim Stride command dash and you get someone who, despite being slow, isn't defenseless and can have some powerful mixups.

 

[Shroob]

CoughYuriLowellCough

Well you're in luck due to the last day or so.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think that Chun-Li and Akuma should be the next two fighters, with Chun-Li being based off of her Street Fighter III: Third Strike incarnation since that's where she seems to be the most prominant, and Akuma being another semi-clone of Ryu.