Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Polan]

Uh, do we consider the following??

https://segmentnext.com/2019/09/02/playstation-all-stars-battle-royale-2/

Mighty coincidence how Solid Snake, Cloud AND Ryu are listed together but also all in Smash.

PSABR 2 is always being rumoured but it never winds up happening. i wouldn't bother with it.

 

[Deleted member]

Except Little Mac doesn't kick and has completely different proportions than Captain Falcon and comes from a totally different genre than Captain Falcon and uses totally different mechanics from Captain Falcon.

If you watch the video it's very clear that Terry fits that description except for coming from a different genre, which is debatable. Ken was very spacing based where Terry's entire design seemed to be "get in there and BUSTAH URUFU"

 

[MrElectroG64]

all the people calling terry "hat ken" and arguing he's literally the same is why no one takes the smash community seriously. ****ing clown tier takes

nobody, at least as far as I know, ACTUALLY think ken and terry are the same. It's a joke, but what people are actually arguing is that Terry would be too similar to ken and ryu, which he would be in smash (aka: he's not the same in actual fighting games, but smash is a different beast and many do not seem to understand this).

 

[DarthEnderX]

Except Little Mac doesn't kick and has completely different proportions than Captain Falcon and comes from a totally different genre than Captain Falcon and uses totally different mechanics from Captain Falcon, and neither Little Mac nor Captain Falcon were paid DLC.

Neat. They also have different moves from each other. Just like Ken and Terry.

If people would stop trying to make arguments for why a character shouldn't be in smash, they could actually be honest about how they dont like a character to be in smash

Well then it would just be a bunch of people going "I don't want that character in Smash because it's not one of my characters."

At least the lies give us variety.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Saying Terry and Ken play similar doesn't even work on a surface level.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Uh, do we consider the following??

https://segmentnext.com/2019/09/02/playstation-all-stars-battle-royale-2/

Why doesn't Capcom just have the confidence to make a Vs. game of it's own characters...

 

[MrElectroG64]

Saying Terry and Ken play similar doesn't even work on a surface level.

The point is that they would play similarly in smash, not just in general. Why do so many people always conveniently leave out the smash part of this?

 

[zferolie]

Why doesn't Capcom just have the confidence to make a Vs. game of it's own characters...

Its very odd why they havent done this yet. It just makes sense to do this...

 

[YoshiandToad]

Uh, do we consider the following??

https://segmentnext.com/2019/09/02/playstation-all-stars-battle-royale-2/

Mighty coincidence how Solid Snake, Cloud AND Ryu are listed together but also all in Smash.

Doubtful it's legit, but with Crash, Spyro, Lara Croft and Jill Valentine that pretty much ticks all the third parties I wanted in Smash anyway. If it does magically turn out to be true I may have to see if I can somehow convince a friend to get this for their inevitable Playstation 5.

 

[cothero]

Its very odd why they havent done this yet. It just makes sense to do this...

They did. And it wasn't very well received.

https://streetfighter.fandom.com/wiki/Capcom_Fighting_Evolution

 

[DarthEnderX]

The point is that they would play similarly in smash, not just in general.

Good. Most of the characters with "interesting" mechanics end up being unplayable to me.

Hero was one of my most wanted characters in Smash, and I end up never playing him because he's ****ing ridiculous.

They did. And it was not very well received.

https://streetfighter.fandom.com/wiki/Capcom_Fighting_Evolution

Well they did that one bad.

Make a good one.

 

[Teeb147]

I think people who like ken and ryu could also like Terry, and they would have enough differences to be interesting to them.

But that's obviously for those that like those types of characters. To others it's easy to put them in the same boat and feel like it's not unique 'enough'.

Anyway, good luck with the speculation. Thankfully we'll maybe get something from nintendo as soon as tomorow, so hopefully they show us something interesting. I wonder if they'd really reveal the character before banjo's release, but hey i wouldn't mind knowing what they're up to sooner than later.

 

[YezenIRl]

Neat. They also have different moves from each other. Just like Ken and Terry.

Again, this is a reductive way to engage with what people are feeling. No one is saying they have the same exact moves. Whether two characters have the same exact moves is the lowest possible bar for uniqueness. We're saying they feel similar.

Yes, Ryu/Ken and Terry don't have the exact same moves. Duh. But they have the same proportions. They're from the same country. In the same universe. They are from the same time period. They have the same profession. They have a similar color scheme, depicted in a similar art style. They are from the same genre of games. The games they represent play very very similarly. And they have similar fighting styles when compared to the diversity present in the Smash roster.

Can you not see how that's different than a character like Nakoruru or D.VA or Sans?

 

[Spinosaurus]

The point is that they would play similarly in smash, not just in general. Why do so many people always conveniently leave out the smash part of this?

I'm confused. Why would they suddenly play similarly in Smash if they never have before?

Then again considering the stigma around swords in this community I guess I'm not surprised some folks don't even want to look beyond "punchy blonde boi"

 

[zferolie]

They did. And it wasn't very well received.

https://streetfighter.fandom.com/wiki/Capcom_Fighting_Evolution

As darth said they dodnt do a great job with that... plus the timing was not the best as i think at the time people were a little crossover overloaded.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Terry Bogard: A | Like Banjo, I need to play him first. I'm excited though. The 4th fighter was always going to receive hate. Not only does Terry snipe the second-to-last slot away, he also had the monumental task of succeeding Banjo. It's also comforting to know that Sakurai still cares about smaller franchises from the past.

No he doesn't. KOF is not a small franchise, in fact its larger and has had more presence than Banjo ever had. If he truly cared about smaller franchises he'd put in some more obscure first parties.

 

[DarthEnderX]

They have the same profession.

Terry is a Hotel Business Tycoon?

 

[yeet123]

Yes, Ryu/Ken and Terry don't have the exact same moves. Duh. But they have the same proportions. They're from the same country. In the same universe. They are from the same time period. They have the same profession. They have a similar color scheme, depicted in a similar art style. They are from the same genre of games. The games they represent play very very similarly. And they have similar fighting styles when compared to the diversity present in the Smash roster.

If YoU CaNt sEe tHe DifFeRenCe YOurE a CloWn

 

[Polan]

nobody, at least as far as I know, ACTUALLY think ken and terry are the same. It's a joke, but what people are actually arguing is that Terry would be too similar to ken and ryu, which he would be in smash (aka: he's not the same in actual fighting games, but smash is a different beast and many do not seem to understand this).

bro there's literally people on this thread trying to argue that they are the same based on nothing but superficial similarities and the fact that they come from a fighting game.

 

[MrElectroG64]

I'm confused. Why would they suddenly play similarly in Smash if they never have before?

Then again considering the stigma around swords in this community I guess I'm not surprised some folks don't even want to look beyond "punchy blonde boi"

because they're both inherently physical characters who punch and kick for their main means of damage, but more importantly they'd have to have the same gameplay mechanic of having carried input moves. Them visually looking quite similar has nothing to do with it, though it definitely doesn't help, I'll tell you that.

 

[Polan]

If YoU CaNt sEe tHe DifFeRenCe YOurE a CloWn

please say sike

 

[YezenIRl]

Why would they suddenly play similarly in Smash if they never have before?

Because you have to look at things in the context of Smash. In a 2d fighter like SF or KoF, where everyone is adult humans or humanoids, who fight with some form of punching and kicking, so it's easy to look at two guys with similar builds and designs and say "well, but when you look at the details they play very different." That's the game. Everyone is a punch and kick guy or girl.

But Smash is a game where you have a dog and a duck fighting a purple dragon fighting a plumber fighting Ganondorf. There are characters who fight with gardening tools and psychic powers and military equipment and stars. There is so much variety in terms of the way characters approach the very idea of fighting, that two guys like Ken and Terry just feel really samey.

 

[NurpNurp]

Again, this is a reductive way to engage with what people are feeling. No one is saying they have the same exact moves. Whether two characters have the same exact moves is the lowest possible bar for uniqueness. We're saying they feel similar.

Yes, Ryu/Ken and Terry don't have the exact same moves. Duh. But they have the same proportions. They're from the same country. In the same universe. They are from the same time period. They have the same profession. They have a similar color scheme, depicted in a similar art style. They are from the same genre of games. The games they represent play very very similarly. And they have similar fighting styles when compared to the diversity present in the Smash roster.

Can you not see how that's different than a character like Nakoruru or D.VA or Sans?

Can't the same thing be said of characters like Hero and Link? Or Banjo and Duck Hunt? Surface level equivalence doesn't equate solely to a character's identity

 

[cothero]

You people need to think outside the box. If Terry would be similar to Ryu and Ken, why would Sakurai consider add him at first place? Let's just remember that Nintendo chose the characters, but Sakurai's the one who ultimately decides if the character is suitable or not to be added.

 

[DarthEnderX]

But Smash is a game where you have a dog and a duck fighting a purple dragon fighting a plumber fighting Ganondorf.

And twelve anime boys with swords and capes...

 

[MrElectroG64]

You people need to think outside the box. If Terry would be similar to Ryu and Ken, why would Sakurai consider add him at first place? Let's just remember that Nintendo chose the characters, but Sakurai's the one who ultimately decides if the character is suitable or not to be added.

we don't even know IF sakurai chose Terry. """leakers""" be damned. We don't know who the character is yet.

And twelve anime boys with swords and capes...

what-about-isms an argument does not make. Just because something bad has happened before does not mean it should be allowed to happen again.

 

[Polan]

And twelve anime boys with swords and capes...

any character with a sword:

Smash players: is this a marth clone?

 

[3BitSaurus]

because they're both inherently physical characters who punch and kick for their main means of damage, but more importantly they'd have to have the same gameplay mechanic of having carried input moves. Them visually looking quite similar has nothing to do with it, though it definitely doesn't help, I'll tell you that.

Why would they need to be mechanically like Ryu and Ken? Fatal Fury and KoF provide a lot more than just input commands. I feel like this point is completely moot, especially because we haven't seen how the character would play.

No one saw Hero's Critical hit and Command Selection mechanics coming, yet here we are.

 

[DarthEnderX]

any character with a sword:

Smash players: is this a marth clone?

I mean, I wasn't actually complaining. I requested 4 of those sword boys. I was saying Smash doesn't have a problem with overlapping archetypes, and neither do I.

Fatal Fury and KoF provide a lot more than just input commands.

Dear god...imagine if Terry could shift into the background to where Pokemon Trainer is...

 

[Spinosaurus]

Because you have to look at things in the context of Smash. In a 2d fighter like SF or KoF, where everyone is adult humans or humanoids, who fight with some form of punching and kicking, so it's easy to look at two guys with similar builds and designs and say "well, but when you look at the details they play very different." But Smash is a game where you have a dog and a duck fighting a purple dragon fighting a plumber fighting Ganondorf. There is so much variety in terms of the way characters approach the idea of fighting, that two guys like Ken and Terry just feel really samey.

This is just trying really hard to justify your own disinterest in a character. Just say you don't like him and move on. At this point in a roster with over 70 characters "uniqueness" is just subjective. I think Banjo looks boring as heck and I could argue that he's just another brown mammal with a bird companion, but that's obviously incredibly dismissive and unnecessary.

Not everything has to fit this weirdly specific criteria of being new and different. (which doesn't include a human character apparently) We know he'll bring something new for a moveset anyway, doubly so if they incorporate KOF's meter system into him.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm confused. Why would they suddenly play similarly in Smash if they never have before?

Then again considering the stigma around swords in this community I guess I'm not surprised some folks don't even want to look beyond "punchy blonde boi"

to be fair, there wouldn't be any sword stigma if nearly every Fire Emblem rep hadn't been Marth in a different outfit.

Again, this is a reductive way to engage with what people are feeling. No one is saying they have the same exact moves. Whether two characters have the same exact moves is the lowest possible bar for uniqueness. We're saying they feel similar.

Yes, Ryu/Ken and Terry don't have the exact same moves. Duh. But they have the same proportions. They're from the same country. In the same universe. They are from the same time period. They have the same profession. They have a similar color scheme, depicted in a similar art style. They are from the same genre of games. The games they represent play very very similarly. And they have similar fighting styles when compared to the diversity present in the Smash roster.

Can you not see how that's different than a character like Nakoruru or D.VA or Sans?

Street Fighter and Fatal Fury/KoF are in the same universe? I thought Capcom and SNK were rivals on that front for a long time, not sharing their IP. Look, I'm not really and truly down with Terry. I'm holding out for that .00001% chance that we've been well and thoroughly taken on the ruse cruise, or at least that he's introduced into the game in a way that blows our mind and changes our opinion on how he's just gonna be another traditional fighter character with a focus on ground based combos and all that jazz. I'm just hard pressed to see a Ken comparison, it's like the weakest place to get hung up on.

 

[Polan]

I mean, I wasn't actually complaining. I requested 4 of those sword boys. I was saying Smash doesn't have a problem with overlapping archetypes, and neither do I.

yeah i was mocking the people that call anything with a sword marth 2.0.

 

[cothero]

we don't even know IF sakurai chose Terry. """leakers""" be damned. We don't know who the character is yet.


what-about-isms an argument does not make. Just because something bad has happened before does not mean it should be allowed to happen again.

It's Terry, as Vergeben said two days before the Direct. He avoids saying names before getting a solid confirmation from his sources.

 

[YezenIRl]

Can't the same thing be said of characters like Hero and Link? Or Banjo and Duck Hunt? Surface level equivalence doesn't equate solely to a character's identity

No. Hero and Link are characters who do different things, from different genres, who's games play totally differently, who have totally different artstyles. Hero engages in turn based combat and uses an assortment of different spells. Link engages in real time combat and uses different items.

Banjo and Duck Hunt are again, characters from totally different genres, with totally different proportions, depicted in totally different art styles, from different eras of gaming. Hell, they aren't even the same species.

The equivalencies between Terry and Ken are closer to those between Marth and Ike than they are Link and Hero, or Banjo and Duck Hunt.

And twelve anime boys with swords and capes...

Too many. And yet, that is a reductive similarity compared to the one between Ken and Terry. Marth and Hero are both anime sword boys with capes. Yet they function totally differently in their games, they are drawn in totally different art styles, they come from different genres, and they use different techniques.

 

[MrElectroG64]

Why would they need to be mechanically like Ryu and Ken? Fatal Fury and KoF provide a lot more than just input commands. I feel like this point is completely moot, especially because we haven't seen how the character would play.

No one saw Hero's Critical hit and Command Selection mechanics coming, yet here we are.

They would need to have this mechanic because that mechanic was made for ryu in smash to represent fighting games as a whole. If it wasn't, then he wouldn't have it at all and he'd play like any other smash fighter. Terry not having it when he also comes from quite a similar fighting game would make no sense.

It's Terry, as Vergeben said two days before the Direct. He doesn't confirm anything before getting a solid confirmation from his sources.

People still use vergeben as a credible source...? Is the fact that verge did not "confirm" that it was indeed terry until a matter of days after the SNK news broke? That would seem like the perfect amount of time to see what the community thinks is the most likely character, then simply begin banking on that be the one that was in. Why would he not say who the next character was way before this?

 

[3BitSaurus]

Honestly, I'm a little late to the party, but to give my score on the DLC so far:

Plant: D-
Joker: A-
Hero: B
Banjo and Kazooie: S
Terry: A- (Only reason it's not higher is because it isn't Kyo)

Really, just the fact that we could get four third-parties already puts it leagues above Smash 4 DLC in my opinion. I didn't really care for returning fighters except for Snake and maybe Icies. Plus, the third party characters of Smash 4 really stole the spotlight from the Nintendo characters (both in the base roster and DLC) as far as I'm concerned.

Dear god...imagine if Terry could shift into the background to where Pokemon Trainer is...

That's illegal.

 

[Arcadenik]

If YoU CaNt sEe tHe DifFeRenCe YOurE a CloWn

I am getting bad memories about Mega Man detractors saying he would be a Samus clone because they have arm cannons.

 

[YezenIRl]

I am getting bad memories about Mega Man detractors saying he would be a Samus clone because they have arm cannons.

Again, this is so reductive. Can we not find a middle ground between "any character that shares a single similarity to another is a clone" and "anything that isn't a clone is totally unique"?

 

[cothero]

People still use vergeben as a credible source...? Is the fact that verge did not "confirm" that it was indeed terry until a matter of days after the SNK news broke? That would seem like the perfect amount of time to see what the community thinks is the most likely character, then simply begin banking on that be the one that was in. Why would he not say who the next character was way before this?

Maybe he know people who saw the Direct Video before everybody else. That constantly happens when it comes to leaks.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Again, this is so reductive. Can we not find a middle ground between "any character that shares a single similarity to another is a clone" and "anything that isn't a clone is totally unique"?

We did. It's called "accepting that some characters are only kinda different from others." You just refuse to stand in that middle ground where the rest of us are.