Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[MasterOfKnees]

Does he really? What makes Geno really any different than say, Isaac or Shadow who were given about 5 seconds in a sizzle reel back in November 2018. I feel like the most he'd say is something like "This costume comes with the track Beware the Forest Mushroom!" or something, but that's it.

I do think he'll acknowledge Geno's popularity if he's made into a deluxe Mii Costume, he did that back when Geno got his original Mii Costume in Smash 4, and he has also acknowledged other characters' popularity despite them not being playable (Sans, Ridley in Smash 4). I don't think Sakurai has much to answer for on that front though, he's not even the one who's picking the characters anyways, so the most he can really do is give Geno's fanbase a brief nod.

 

[PK-remling Fire]

Primid Mii fighters would be dope. They even had guns, swords, and bare-fists in Subspace Emissary, so it'd fit really well as a mii costume for all three.

That and polygon fighters

 

[Cosmic77]

Geno's not entitled to special treatment just because he's popular.

Yeah, the best case scenario is a premium Mii costume, a SMRPG track, and an explanation from Sakurai as to why Geno wasn't added, but all of that is just stuff people would like to see to soften the blow. There's a decent chance that the old costume returns, there's no track, and Sakurai doesn't say a word about Geno. Being disappointed and upset should that happen is fair, but you shouldn't act like Geno is any more special than Waluigi, Crash, Isaac, or any other popular character who might miss out on this game.

 

[Shroob]

I do think he'd acknowledge Geno's popularity if he's made into a deluxe Mii Costume, he did that back when Geno got his original Mii Costume in Smash 4, and he has also acknowledged other characters' popularity despite them not being playable (Sans, Ridley in Smash 4). I don't think Sakurai has much to answer for on that front though, he's not even the one who's picking the characters anyways, so the most he can really do is give Geno's fanbase a brief nod.

It just feels like people want Sakurai to give a detailed explanation as to why Geno potentially ended up in Costume hell/an apology.


Like, gonna be honest, but that post bringing up the threadcount was pretty dang funny to me. Yeah, the Geno thread is big... but how many people actively post there? About 50~ if I'm averaging on the higher end? Smashboards is a microscopic splinter of the Smash community at large.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Ok but hear me out

Geno doesn’t need to be premium in the sense of coming with a song

cause Sephiroth will come with SMRPG music as a bonus.
And other FF music, and TWEWY music, and BD music, and Star Ocean music, and NieR music...

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

If we got a Smash OG caracter I'd go for Tabuu, the moveset there could be insane. Though a character like Sandbag is more likely.

 

[Firox]

Does he really? What makes Geno really any different than say, Isaac or Shadow who were given about 5 seconds in a sizzle reel back in November 2018. I feel like the most he'd say is something like "This costume comes with the track Beware the Forest Mushroom!" or something, but that's it.

Firstly, yes, he does. Why? Because unlike Isaac or Shadow, he made comments in the past that teased the very real possibility that Geno could be an actual fighter. He also included an actual splash screen for Geno's costume in Sm4sh. In other words, he seemed to show tangible favoritism at least towards the idea of Geno as opposed to Isaac and Shadow for whom I don't think he's ever verbally acknowledged.

Also consider the fact that as PO'ed as Isaac and Shadow fans were to get the bone at the last possible second with regards to base game release, Geno fans had to wait almost TWO YEARS for closure, even having to endure the possible bone-over when Hero was released. That's a pretty long time to string along such a sizeable amount of the fanbase. And it's not like it would be the first time Sakurai has offered a shout-out to a popular character that he's costumed. Regardless, I don't expect a full eulogy or anything, just an acknowledgement or something.

PS. To be fair, as a fan of both Isaac and Shadow, they both should have deserved an honorable mention or something as well. It's pretty cold how Sakurai and Nintendo have barely acknowledged the fanbase for Isaac and Golden Sun. I want another game, dang it! They left us on a cliffhanger! On the bright side, there's technically no reason we can't still get Isaac or Shadow later on since AT's could possibly be upgraded.

 

[Momotsuki]

I would loooove to see a Smash rep in this pass. Many people have bad taste and would be upset if this were to happen but really, I'd love it. Smash has earned the right to self-indulge a wee tad. Primid, anyone?

 

[Mushroomguy12]

A megathread with thousands and thousands of comments?

I don't really think the developers pay attention to message board counts on Smashboards. Even then there are other threads like Isaac and Shantae that are also huge and didn't get much acknowledgement outside of their brief NPC reveals.

I do think he'd acknowledge Geno's popularity if he's made into a deluxe Mii Costume, he did that back when Geno got his original Mii Costume in Smash 4, and he has also acknowledged other characters' popularity despite them not being playable (Sans, Ridley in Smash 4). I don't think Sakurai has much to answer for on that front though, he's not even the one who's picking the characters anyways, so the most he can really do is give Geno's fanbase a brief nod.

The only character exclusion he gave an explanation for in Ultimate was Rex (at least for presentations), and that was mainly because of the specific reason for his exclusion was timing constraints. He also briefly addressed Sans, as the first Premium Mii rather than over his exclusion. He doesn't really seem much different from Isaac, Krystal, Waluigi, Shadow, Ashley, etc.

 

[Shroob]

Firstly, yes, he does. Why? Because unlike Isaac or Shadow, he made comments in the past that teased the very real possibility that Geno could be an actual fighter. He also included an actual splash screen for Geno's costume in Sm4sh. In other words, he seemed to show tangible favoritism at least towards the idea of Geno as opposed to Isaac and Shadow for whom I don't think he's ever verbally acknowledged.

Also consider the fact that as PO'ed as Isaac and Shadow fans were to get the bone at the last possible second with regards to base game release, Geno fans had to wait almost TWO YEARS for closure, even having to endure the possible bone-over when Hero was released. That's a pretty long time to string along such a sizeable amount of the fanbase. And it's not like it would be the first time Sakurai has offered a shout-out to a popular character that he's costumed. Regardless, I don't expect a full eulogy or anything, just an acknowledgement or something.

PS. To be fair, as a fan of both Isaac and Shadow, they both should have deserved an honorable mention or something as well. It's pretty cold how Sakurai and Nintendo have barely acknowledged the fanbase for Isaac and Golden Sun. I want another game, dang it! They left us on a cliffhanger! On the bright side, there's technically no reason we can't still get Isaac or Shadow later on since AT's could possibly be upgraded.

And Lloyd fans are still waiting to see if he lives or dies.

Again, I gotta ask, what makes Geno special that he deserves special treatment? I acknowledge his popularity, but if you actually take some steps outside Smashboards, which is already a hilariously small part of the fandom, not even accounting for 1% of it probably, I'd wager you'd realize just how small Geno really is. That's not to say that he is not popular, anyone can acknowledge that clearly, but he's nowhere near as big as some people make him seem.


A lot of your points feel more emotional than logical, because at the end of the day, Sakurai doesn't 'owe' us anything as to why certain things are or are not in the game.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

It just feels like people want Sakurai to give a detailed explanation as to why Geno potentially ended up in Costume hell/an apology.


Like, gonna be honest, but that post bringing up the threadcount was pretty dang funny to me. Yeah, the Geno thread is big... but how many people actively post there? About 50~ if I'm averaging on the higher end? Smashboards is a microscopic splinter of the Smash community at large.

Yeah, using a thread's post count as an argument is obviously pretty weak. I do think Geno has been such a big subject even in the wider Smash speculation circles that it's likely that Sakurai will at least give them a nod though, as he has done before, but there's not really much anyone can expect him to say about the situation beyond that.

 

[ShotoStar]

Also we're ranking trailers?:

S++: Everyone is Here
S: , /Smash 5 reveal,
A: ,,/, ,
B:,,,,
C:/,

What are your top 3 reveal trailers?
For me:

#1 Min Min for its awesome build up, pacing, humor, editing, music cues, stylized CGI, "plot"... its all there and its all so good.

#2 Bowser Jr. still has the most epic reveal trailer to me. Sephiroth's was cool but I felt more of a genuine "struggle" in Bowser Jr's. And just when the team thinks it can't get any worse, in comes the Koopalings. Its so damn epic man.

#3 Roy might sound like an odd pick but its the only Smash reveal to this day that has gotten me to laugh out loud. It's such clever usage of gameplay only footage. You can tell the devs had a crazy ass fun time making it. Its the most "fun" Smash reveal in my opinion.

What about you?

1) Everyone Is Here: Iconic, Legendary. Personal peak of Smash Ultimate right there. It's the single moment that embodies Smash Ultimate and is one of the best reveals in all of gaming I think.

2) King K. Rool Comes Aboard!: The last character I was unironically and full-heartedly hyped for cause he was up there with Geno (RIP....) as one of my most wanteds so I'm glad I at least got one character I wanted. Plus the choreography, setting, music and more just combined together to make a good trailer.

3) Smash 5 reveal: It wasn't the best trailer by itself in a choreography, style or really many senses but. The significance of the trailer makes it one of the best just cause it's a new Smash Game! That within itself makes it one of the best the thing it represents is just so good. Also Inklings being announced is pretty cool.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

(I have reason to also believe Min Min was the subject of the Milk Bosatu leak in 2019)

I personally have a massive doubt on that because didn't Milk Botatsu because riddle me this.

How could a Japanese person make the confusion between someone wearing Japanese clothes and Chinese clothes?

Or are you simply assuming all Asians look the same?

 

[Droodle]

I don't think Sakurai is going to give an in depth explanation for why Geno wasn't added.

If Geno is upgraded then he'll just say: "The Geno Mii Costume from Smash 4 has been upgraded, we hope fans of this character feel like they play as Geno when they use it".
If Geno isn't upgraded to deluxe then he won't say anything in the showcase, he may bring it up if asked in interviews though.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I personally have a massive doubt on that because didn't Milk Botatsu because riddle me this.

How could a Japanese person make the confusion between someone wearing Japanese clothes and Chinese clothes?

Or are you simply assuming all Asians look the same?

Maybe the dude’s never seen Chinese clothes before? Or the WIP model’s clothes looked more Japanese

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Also, has anyone actually considered the implications of Cloud having a different Final Smash?

Y'all don't realize just how much this can blow speculation wide open to know the devs are willing to go back to base game characters and add more stuff to them?

 

[SNEKeater]

I get that fans want some kind of closure after years of supporting a character, I completely understand that. But some people seems to believe that absence of information regarding a character being in the game or not means that Sakurai/Nintendo have been playing with the fans, and that's not really the case.

They never misleaded the fans with Geno or any other fan request that wasn't lucky enough to get the playable status. Fans started seeing things by themselves, not because Nintendo or Sakurai were playing 4D chess and giving hints.

Though if Geno Mii Costume returns next week I'm expecting Sakurai to address his costume in some way.

Edit: to clarify, I'm speaking about fans in general. not Geno fans. To a degree, this is something that happens to all of us. People will always tend to believe more easily a leak/theory/rumour involving their most wanted than someone who isn't a fan of the character in question.

 

[Momotsuki]

A Mii costume that covers the Mii face, and a very brief acknowledgement of Geno's situation, that's certainly enough, IMO.
Music would be a sweet bonus. Also, we don't need to think or talk about him anymore if this happens, and that's pretty nifty.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Maybe the dude’s never seen Chinese clothes before?

But assuming clothes he'd never seen are Japanese when he's blatantly Japanese himself?

Or the WIP model’s clothes looked more Japanese

Why would Min Min have Japanese clothes to begin with?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm doing my tier list of the best reveals so far in Smash Ultimate

I guess this'll be a thing now...

• S (10/10):
  
• A (Great execution):
  
• B (Decent execution):
• C (Meh execution):
  
• D (No execution):
• F (Actively underwhelming):

Spoiler: A few notes:

• Sephiroth's trailer is the first one I'd call truly epic. Just...everything here is amazing.
• Piranha Plant is a bit of an odd one out, but I think the way they played off the reveal had pretty great comedic timing.
• Banjo & Kazooie's trailer is alright, but the same thing isn't quite as good the second time.
• Female Byleth's is better than male Byleth's because the tagline is funnier.
• Ken's reveal is mostly there to set up Incineroar.
• Min Min's trailer gets docked for doing the whole "lmao you thought this character would be in" thing.
• Joker's reveal really only works in the context of The Game Awards. It's otherwise ineffective, as it relies on name recognition alone.
• The D tier characters are just thrust onscreen.
• Terry's reveal is the worst because it's boring and does the "lmao you thought this character would be in" thing.

 

[PacificFun]

Bruh, imagine if they bring back the Geno costime mostly unchanged and with no music.

 

[7NATOR]

Also, has anyone actually considered the implications of Cloud having a different Final Smash?

Y'all don't realize just how much this can blow speculation wide open to know the devs are willing to go back to base game characters and add more stuff to them?

TWO Spindashes and a Spring has the potential to be null and void in Smash? Sign me up

And Other Fighting Games like Tekken, Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, and FighterZ have added new moves to characters, And they have less budget than Smash. I guess though because there's like 80 characters in this game, adding moves will need more balancing than the other games, especially since Smash is more varied in how you can play

 

[MasterOfKnees]

The only character exclusion he gave an explanation for in Ultimate was Rex (at least for presentations), and that was mainly because of the specific reason for his exclusion was timing constraints. I don't think Geno really has anything like that, he doesn't really seem much different from Isaac, Krystal, Waluigi, Ashley, etc.

I definitely don't think he'll give any explanation (nor do I crave one myself, I don't have any personal attachment to the character), like I said Sakurai has absolutely nothing to answer for on that front, and even if he did I wouldn't expect him to talk about something like that, especially not in an official presentation. All I'm saying is that if Geno is a deluxe Mii Costume, I do think he'll make note of his popularity, as he always talks a little bit about the deluxe Mii Costumes and why they're special.

 

[spicynun]

cause Sephiroth will come with SMRPG music as a bonus.
And other FF music, and TWEWY music, and BD music, and Star Ocean music, and NieR music...

please let this happen

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Also, has anyone actually considered the implications of Cloud having a different Final Smash?

Y'all don't realize just how much this can blow speculation wide open to know the devs are willing to go back to base game characters and add more stuff to them?

Did you have something specific in mind? A character that might be altered or something? I'm not in a great mental state to come up with much myself.

 

[Momotsuki]

Come on, now. What did people expect Isabelle's reveal to look like? Seriously. It was very in-character, and the lack of the Smash cross at the start (IIRC) certainly made the segway more effective.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

TWO Spindashes and a Spring has the potential to be null and void in Smash? Sign me up

And Other Fighting Games like Tekken, Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, and FighterZ have added new moves to characters, And they have less budget than Smash. I guess though because there's like 80 characters in this game, adding moves will need more balancing than the other games, especially since Smash is more varied in how you can play

That's why I don't expect much more than visual flavor if they ever do more stuff like this.

But a man can dream, and my dream is for them to actively flesh out some of the Echo Fighters as more than just blatant copies.

 

[PacificFun]

Oh, were ranking ALL of the trailers? Kk

Smash 4&5 Base game
Villager 9/10 - Epic reunion
Mega Man 8/10 - Great production value
Wii Fit Trainer 8/10 - Doesn't waste time
Rosalina 9/10 - Great setup for the reveal
Little Mac 7/10 - Art style is a little ugly
Greninja 9/10 - Mario vs Charizard is so epic.
Mii 10/10 - Do I really need to explain?
Palutena 7/10 - Not feeling the artstyle and voice acting.
PAC-MAN 6/10 - Too minimal
Robin 9/10 - Honestly hilarious
Shulk 7/10 - A little bland
Bowser Jr. 10/10 - Total epicness
Duck Hunt 8/10 - The most "meta" trailer

Smash 4&5 DLC
Mewtwo 3/10 - Literally just a JPG image
Lucas 8/10 - The beginning is so perfect
Roy 9/10 THE funniest Smash trailer ever.
Ryu 6/10 - A little bland
Cloud 7/10 - Its pretty solid
Corrin 6/10 - Voice acting sucked and reused animation
Bayonetta 8/10 - Great setup and pacing

Smash Ultimate base game
Inkling 10/10 - WHAT A BAIT AND SWITCH
Ridley 8/10 - Pretty badass
Simon 10/10 - Luigi steals the show
King K. Rool 9/10 - The most triumphant Smash trailer.
Isabelle 6/10 - Bad pacing
Incineroar 9/10 - Really cool setup
Plant 7/10 - Just pretty solid

Smash Ultumate DLC
Joker 9/10 - The only contextual reveal
Hero 7/10 - Solid, if not a bit bland
Banjo 8/10 - Solid retread of K. Rool.
Terry 9/10 - Such a cool way to introduce a challenger.
Byleth 4/10 - Bad pacing, ugly CG and too long.
Min Min 10/10 - You take Terry's trailer and make it bombastic.
Steve 8/10 - The perfect way to reveal Minecraft.
Sephiroth 8/10 - Great production value but feels like a worst paced version of Bowser Jr's trailer.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Also, has anyone actually considered the implications of Cloud having a different Final Smash?

Y'all don't realize just how much this can blow speculation wide open to know the devs are willing to go back to base game characters and add more stuff to them?

Please allow Ganon to float and give him his Dead Man's Volley Nintendo.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Come on, now. What did people expect Isabelle's reveal to look like? Seriously. It was very in-character, and the lack of the Smash cross at the start (IIRC) certainly made the segway more effective.

It makes sense, and I'm not sure it needed to be done differently, it's just not a very hype way to reveal a character.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Also, has anyone actually considered the implications of Cloud having a different Final Smash?

Y'all don't realize just how much this can blow speculation wide open to know the devs are willing to go back to base game characters and add more stuff to them?

It's just a slightly different animation on the same final smash, there's a 99% chance that there will be no mechanical changes.

If there were, then we should all agree on one thing.

Fix Ganondorf for the love of Demise.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Cloud 7/10 - Needed CGI

Kind of unfair to say that as a negative when none of the Smash 4 DLCs had any CGI, if you ask me.

 

[Momotsuki]

It's just a slightly different animation on the same final smash, there's a 99% chance that there will be no mechanical changes.

If there were, then we should all agree on one thing.

Fix Ganondorf for the love of Demise.

This would only be acceptable if Black Shadow was added and inherited Ganon's entire kit and attributes completely verbatim, except with his pre-Ultimate Smash attacks since Black Shadow swinging a claymore doesn't make any sense. Ganondorf's playstyle is [REDACTED]ing sacred. If there's nobody to inherit it, you don't get to change him.

 

[Firox]

Again, I gotta ask, what makes Geno special that he deserves special treatment?

Congrats on refusing to actually read my reply. Also, is saying something like, "Geno was a hugely popular character so we decided to upgrade him to a premium costume" considered special treatment? If so, your negative bias is showing and you aren't really worth discussing this any further.

I acknowledge his popularity, but if you actually take some steps outside Smashboards, which is already a hilariously small part of the fandom, not even accounting for 1% of it probably, I'd wager you'd realize just how small Geno really is. That's not to say that he is not popular, anyone can acknowledge that clearly, but he's nowhere near as big as some people make him seem.

I know it might be hard for you to fathom, but yes, many of us DO get outside Smashboards, and yes, Geno is far from the most iconic character in the universe, but you'd be surprised how many gamers older than 25 actually DO know who he is. Ironic of you to acknowledge his popularity and then proceed to doubt that same assertion. You also seem to forget that Krool and Banjo were also relatively obscure until their respective fanbases actually SUCCEEDED in getting their characters in the game by doing exactly what the Geno fans are/were trying to do: SUPPORT THEM PUBLICLY.

A lot of your points feel more emotional than logical, because at the end of the day, Sakurai doesn't 'owe' us anything as to why certain things are or are not in the game.

LOL I love getting lectured about logic by, again, someone that simultaneously acknowledges Geno's popularity while at the same time arguing about why said popularity isn't worthy of acknowledgement. Being able to recall actual past shout-outs by Sakurai is not being emotional. Being emotional is rejecting all logic to hate on a character simply because you have no attachment or liking for them.

 

[Koopaul]

Is it weird that I only wanted Geno merely for the chance of a Bowser Castle stage?

 

[Peeton]

What are your top 3 reveal trailers?
For me:

#1 Min Min for its awesome build up, pacing, humor, editing, music cues, stylized CGI, "plot"... its all there and its all so good.

#2 Bowser Jr. still has the most epic reveal trailer to me. Sephiroth's was cool but I felt more of a genuine "struggle" in Bowser Jr's. And just when the team thinks it can't get any worse, in comes the Koopalings. Its so damn epic man.

#3 Roy might sound like an odd pick but its the only Smash reveal to this day that has gotten me to laugh out loud. It's such clever usage of gameplay only footage. You can tell the devs had a crazy ass fun time making it. Its the most "fun" Smash reveal in my opinion.

What about you?

1. Everyone is here. Very happy Snake and Wolf are back and that’s all I really needed.

2.TERRY BOGARD BABY WE LOVE TERRY BABY WOOOOO TERRY BOGARD! TERRY! TERRY! TERRY!

3. Recency bias may be at fault, but Sephiroth’s trailer was really good.

 

[PacificFun]

Kind of unfair to say that as a negative when none of the Smash 4 DLCs had any CGI, if you ask me.

Honestly, that's a good point as Roy as one of my favorite trailers ever. I just don't love the trailer I guess.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

It's just a slightly different animation on the same final smash, there's a 99% chance that there will be no mechanical changes.

If there were, then we should all agree on one thing.

Fix Ganondorf for the love of Demise.

I'm hoping Sephiroth is the ticket for Ganon to get some love in a patch, since Sephiroth seems like Ganon's worst nightmare.

Please allow Ganon to float and give him his Dead Man's Volley Nintendo.

I'd take away his freefall after side-B as a compromise, but that's just me.

 

[Brother AJ]

For this I would say M.Bison/Vega (Dictator) for Street Fighter as well.

Well if you had to choose one, who would you go with? To me it has to be Akuma.

Vergil's up there as well. But I can't see him happening before Dante unless Capcom's ready to promote DMC 5 Special Edition that much (And Dante can still do that anyway).

Capcom has too many good characters don't they?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Byleth 4/10 - Bad pacing, ugly CG and too long.

The CG portion is literally an in-engine cutscene that was rerecorded with different lines. That's why, while I wouldn't call it ugly, it is much more stilted than every other CG trailer.