Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[PacificFun]

I'm gonna say it again: Nintendo as a creative company is awesome! Nintendo as a business company, however; is horrible and always has been (that goes for SEGA too).

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Which is of course an utterly ridiculous claim to believe.













After all given his decision making with the franchise, its clearly Miyamoto who hates Star Fox.

Son of a ***** I thought you posted a video and that it just wouldn't load considering all the space between sentences.

For real though despite my apathy towards Star Fox, Krystal's AT really surprised me as it that HAD to be influenced by the ballot and nothing else, I'm pretty sure Ridley was the only other stand out content that was announced back then too

Marketing is really good, not gonna lie.


That's fair, especially with the sheer scope of the movies. With that said...


Art of Fighting is a direct prequel to Fatal Fury. It's not really a "crossover" at this point more than it is a proof that the two franchises are indeed connected as part of a single story.

What's next? Tiki in Awakening means the game is actually a crossover too?

Art of Fighting's always been well, Art of Fighting. It's not branded as Fatal Fury in any way, I even double checked the JP name in case it was branded as Garou. Maybe I should have used KoF as a better example but that's on me.

As for Tiki, she's absolutely fanservice for old fans, but she's not a selling point like "Wow the champions are all together and they'll actually ****ing do something instead of refusing to acknowledge each other in all their appearances! Again, like the MCU. We saw Tony Stark in The Incredible Hulk but that didn't mean Hulk and Iron Man wasn't exciting to audiences

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Then there's also the overload of Generation 1 Pokémon in Smash, with Lucario, Incineroar and Greninja as sole exceptions.

You just made Pichu sad. Apologize.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm gonna say it again: Nintendo as a creative company is awesome! Nintendo as a business company is horrible and always has been (that goes for SEGA too).

This is kinda out of nowhere but I doubt most people would disagree that Nintendo can be absolute scum. Can't say I know what you're talking about with SEGA unless you mean Atlus being absolute garbage

You just made Pichu sad. Apologize.

Nah, you see, like everyone else who isn't an edgelord or competitive player, Diddy pretends Pichu's not in the game so that Pichu could never possibly get hurt in any way shape or form

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I genuinely don't get what's so hard to understand here, Byleth lucked out on timing for the DLC project plan, Rex and Spring Man didn't.

It's not a lack of understanding. The reason why things are the way they are doesn't remove the complaint. The fact remains that they made a big show about how they couldn't have added the characters to the base roster because they hadn't existed yet (which is completely understandable), and then instead of adding one for DLC, they added arguably the least popular character like this. It's not illogical to be a little miffed by this.

Nah, you see, like everyone else who isn't an edgelord or competitive player, Diddy pretends Pichu's not in the game so that Pichu could never possibly get hurt in any way shape or form

Pichu is hurt because he feels like he's invisible, but people ignore him because they don't want him to get hurt...

This is so sad. Alexa, play Oracion.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I return to say, how dare Nintendo still not add Brewster to Animal Crossing.

Back to lurking...

who cares about Brewster when we finally have black ethnic hair in the game

 

[PacificFun]

This is kinda out of nowhere but I doubt most people would disagree that Nintendo can be absolute scum. Can't say I know what you're talking about with SEGA unless you mean Atlus being absolute garbage

I'm talking about Byleth.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

who cares about Brewster when we finally have black ethnic hair in the game

Work shifts at the Roost were pretty fun tho.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

who cares about Brewster when we finally have black ethnic hair in the game

And also baldness because I needed that cursed image.

This could probably sound rude in this context, so I'll just say that I'm fine with bald people, but the Villager was designed with hair in mind so it looks kinda unsettling without it. Similar to that bald Sora image that people posted because reasons.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Work shifts at the Roost were pretty fun tho.

he will probably come in an update somewhere down the line after all the seasonal stuff is done.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I just want facial hair I can add via mirror and not have to buy at the clothing store.

 

[SharkLord]

That... Simply just happens. Look at Zelda for example. Even with Smash Ultimate, Ocarina of Time has the most characters by far; Young Link, Sheik and Ganondorf. In Brawl and Smash 4 it was the Twilight Princess cast, and Melee had literally everyone from Ocarina of Time. Then there's also the overload of Generation 1 Pokémon in Smash, with Lucario, Incineroar and Greninja as sole exceptions.

Honestly that kinda bugs me too. If I had the option to swap out a good chunk of the Gen 1 reps in exchange for Pokemon from the unrepresented generations, I'd choose the latter no contest.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Naming all of the games in a series is infinitely more relevant to its history than naming every character. There was indeed reason for him to do it.

I guess that's why he names all the games of every series. Next time, maybe we can get Flag Semamore that you can defend

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It's not a lack of understanding. The reason why things are the way they are doesn't remove the complaint. The fact remains that they made a big show about how they couldn't have added the characters to the base roster because they hadn't existed yet (which is completely understandable), and then instead of adding one for DLC, they added arguably the least popular character like this. It's not illogical to be a little miffed by this.


Pichu is hurt because he feels like he's invisible, but people ignore him because they don't want him to get hurt...

This is so sad. Alexa, play Oracion.

But... Sakurai pretty much did that

Xenoblade 2 and ARMs characters just had bad timing for the project plan. pic.twitter.com/PR4qS30leP

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) January 20, 2019

They had bad timing and we know for a fact XB2 and Ultimate began development in 2015, though I don't know how far alongs ARMS was as I can't find a source on that, though I think it's safe to say 2015 too. Byleth? They didn't have bad timing and fit in nicely with what Nintendo was looking for as a 2019 game. Sakurai adding Byleth because Nintendo wanted Byleth isn't contradictory to why Rex and Spring Man weren't included either when the people upset at Byleth despite Rex and Spring Man are claiming it's indeed a contradiction because they're ignoring key details.


Pichu just plays with the other fighters who aren't in use, just like how the Pokemon boxes are fun little places where they can relax and have fun instead of a lifeless void

I'm talking about Byleth.

Byleth isn't a bad business decision at all though, I thought you meant them profiting off of genocide or the timed release stuff but if you want to say "This disappointed me so it's scummy" go ahead

Honestly that kinda bugs me too. If I had the option to swap out a good chunk of the Gen 1 reps in exchange for Pokemon from the unrepresented generations, I'd choose the latter no contest.

**** outta here Charizard we getting mother****ing AGGRON

 

[pupNapoleon]

That... Simply just happens. Look at Zelda for example. Even with Smash Ultimate, Ocarina of Time has the most characters by far; Young Link, Sheik and Ganondorf. In Brawl and Smash 4 it was the Twilight Princess cast, and Melee had literally everyone from Ocarina of Time. Then there's also the overload of Generation 1 Pokémon in Smash, with Lucario, Incineroar and Greninja as sole exceptions.

...Pokemon that are born in Gen 1 are the ones that are relevant in every generation.
It's not like Lucina appears in every Fire Emblem game now.
Meanwhile, the Pokemon get movies, Kanto is in 4 generations (1, 2, 3, 5 + quickly available starters in 6, and LGPE of gen 8). <--tell me how this is relevant to Lucina.
It sounds like youre getting lost on the words and not the concept.
'Gen 1' bias is a stupid phrase- the characters are in almost all Pokemon media that exists.

 

[SharkLord]

**** outta here Charizard we getting mother****ing AGGRON

In my idea timeline, we'd have Scizor for a full (Non-clone) Gen 2 rep, Aggron for Gen 3, Golurk for Gen 5, and Appletun for Gen 8. Keep Pikachu, Mewtwo, Lucario, Greninja, and Incineroar for the rest of the generations, plus a Legendary Pokemon. Maybe bring back Pichu and/or Pokemon Trainer, perhaps with a revamp for the latter to a more hands-on fighter that represents every generation and/or the items.

Sorry I don't have a female/gender-neutral version of the meme this is the only version they had in store

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Honestly that kinda bugs me too. If I had the option to swap out a good chunk of the Gen 1 reps in exchange for Pokemon from the unrepresented generations, I'd choose the latter no contest.

I think the Gen 1 reps should stay:

• Pikachu is the mascot.
• Jigglypuff is a Super Smash Bros. series staple.
• Mewtwo is the legendary Pokémon.
• Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard are necessary for the inclusion of the main protagonist.

Instead, I'd just add more Pokémon from other generations.

I guess that's why he names all the games of every series. Next time, maybe we can get Flag Semamore that you can defend

Just because he doesn't do it the same way each time doesn't make any of the methods irrelevant. I'm not defending an offensive gester, I'm saying there wasn't one made to begin with. He was counting in binary. That's it. He wasn't conspiring to flip everyone off. That'd be like saying that someone is being rude every time they gave someone else a thumbs up because it is a rude gesture in some parts of the world. Context matters.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Nintendo as a business company, however; is horrible and always has been (that goes for SEGA too).

They may not always make the best decisions, but clearly they do something accurately to
1- survive for as long as they have
2- drum up more fanboyism than perhaps any other gaming company, or even many other companies, short of Disney

In my idea timeline, we'd have Scizor for a full (Non-clone) Gen 2 rep, Aggron for Gen 3, Golurk for Gen 5, and Appletun for Gen 8. Keep Pikachu, Mewtwo, Lucario, Greninja, and Incineroar for the rest of the generations, plus a Legendary Pokemon. Maybe bring back Pichu and/or Pokemon Trainer, perhaps with a revamp for the latter to a more hands-on fighter that represents every generation and/or the items.

Sorry I don't have a female/gender-neutral version of the meme this is the only version they had in store

So...just get rid of Jigglypuff?

Just because he doesn't do it the same way each time doesn't make any of the methods irrelevant. I'm not defending an offensive gester, I'm saying there wasn't one made to begin with. He was counting in binary. That's it. He wasn't conspiring to flip everyone off. That'd be like saying that someone is being rude every time they gave someone else a thumbs up because it is a rude gesture in some parts of the world. Context matters.

We aren't going to convince each other, so there's no point in us continuing this conversation.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

In my idea timeline, we'd have Scizor for a full (Non-clone) Gen 2 rep, Aggron for Gen 3, Golurk for Gen 5, and Appletun for Gen 8. Keep Pikachu, Mewtwo, Lucario, Greninja, and Incineroar for the rest of the generations, plus a Legendary Pokemon. Maybe bring back Pichu and/or Pokemon Trainer, perhaps with a revamp for the latter to a more hands-on fighter that represents every generation and/or the items.

Sorry I don't have a female/gender-neutral version of the meme this is the only version they had in store

****ing Golurk? My dude you've earned yourself a goddamn sticker, Golurk is so goddamn badass that seeing it in Detective Pikachu was a genuine highlight. I ****in love Gen V, hate how Pokemon's issue of refusing to acknowledge non gen 1 Pokemon can be traced back to morons whining that they had to use the new Pokemon in the main game instead of their old favourites.

That's understandable, though to compensate, I want you to get a copy of Bambi for the ps2

 

[SharkLord]

So...just get rid of Jigglypuff?

Not necessarily, it's just that Jigglypuff doesn't have anything to convince me otherwise. Pichu and Pokemon Trainer have some thing going for them, but from the mindset of "One Pokemon per generation + one freebie," I feel that Mewtwo being a Legendary gives them more of an edge over the other candidates, in my opinion.

 

[PacificFun]

I still wonder that, if we're getting one last Square character, if Nintendo would want to promote the likes of Bravely Defualt or TWEWY or add another heavy hitter such as Lara Croft and (less so but still) 2B.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Not necessarily, it's just that Jigglypuff doesn't have anything to convince me otherwise. Pichu and Pokemon Trainer have some thing going for them, but from the mindset of "One Pokemon per generation + one freebie," I feel that Mewtwo being a Legendary gives them more of an edge over the other candidates, in my opinion.

Why should each generation born Pokemon get a character?
I see people say this all the time, and it never seems to get defended.

The original games, which are relevant to the entire media franchise, were a cultural phenomenon unlike any other video game in history. Pokemon, up until 2001, was used as a sociological, psychological, and economic study.

Every character from Pokemon could be from the first 151 and it would still make sense. (Though, I'm glad it doesnt).

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

If the choice is to some degree Nintendo's control, they may have a different set of priorities. 2B is from a franchise that lacks even the tenuous connection to Nintendo that Persona did (and that's not even getting into the changes necessary for her costume), while Tomb Raider's notable but not as immediately relevant as to contemporary Switch releases as Bravely Default or TWEWY.

Heck if Square Enix announced a collection/releases of the first six FF games for Switch next year, one could argue that a Terra or Cecil would be the character they'd go for.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I still wonder that, if we're getting one last Square character, if Nintendo would want to promote the likes of Bravely Defualt or TWEWY or add another heavy hitter such as Lara Croft and (less so but still) 2B.

Funny you mention 2B, Amazon recently added a Switch version of NieR Replicant slated for April 2021. We DO know the Automata protags are going to be in Replicant in some way so people won't be able to shoot down 2B's Phantasy Star 2 appearance not counting as a Nintendo appearance despite Sakurai counting Cloud's cameos in KH and stuff

 

[SharkLord]

Why should each generation born Pokemon get a character?
I see people say this all the time, and it never seems to get defended.

The original games, which are relevant to the entire media franchise, were a cultural phenomenon unlike any other video game in history. Pokemon, up until 2001, was used as a sociological, psychological, and economic study.

Every character from Pokemon could be from the first 151 and it would still make sense. (Though, I'm glad it doesnt).

I dunno, it just feels nice having it all equal. Also, there's the fact that I can give one rep for each generation without it coming off as overboard.

It should also be noted that these picks are for a personal roster I'm making, so there's a bunch of other variables that I have to take into account that are admittedly arbitrary and slanted towards my personal tastes.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I dunno, it just feels nice having it all equal. Also, there's the fact that I can give one rep for each generation without it coming off as overboard.

It should also be noted that these picks are for a personal roster I'm making, so there's a bunch of other variables that I have to take into account that are admittedly arbitrary and slanted towards my personal tastes.

But even about 'equality,' they
1- dont make equal appearances
2- they have vastly different numbers of newcomers, with some generations having twice as many new Pokemon as others.

 

[SNEKeater]

If the choice is to some degree Nintendo's control, they may have a different set of priorities. 2B is from a franchise that lacks even the tenuous connection to Nintendo that Persona did (and that's not even getting into the changes necessary for her costume), while Tomb Raider's notable but not as immediately relevant as to contemporary Switch releases as Bravely Default or TWEWY.

Heck if Square Enix announced a collection/releases of the first six FF games for Switch next year, one could argue that a Terra or Cecil would be the character they'd go for.

Unless Nintendo and Sakurai are super mad because of the poor representation for Final Fantasy, I don't see any scenario where they would add another FF character. I mean I'd love to get Terra or another FF protagonist. To be fair I feel another FFVII character would be more likely even if it's because of the remake. Which sucks because Final Fantasy isn't just VII and I'd rather a more balanced representation instead of going with only VII.

Anyway I doubt they would even think to add a character just to promote a bunch of old games. It doesn't feel very right, if you're going to promote something I feel adding a character from a recent new game or upcoming game makes more sense.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Unless Nintendo and Sakurai are super mad because of the poor representation for Final Fantasy, I don't see any scenario where they would add another FF character. I mean I'd love to get Terra or another FF protagonist. To be fair I feel another FFVII character would be more likely even if it's because of the remake. Which sucks because Final Fantasy isn't just VII and I'd rather a more balanced representation instead of going with only VII.

Anyway I doubt they would even think to add a character just to promote a bunch of old games. It doesn't feel very right, if you're going to promote something I feel adding a character from a recent new game or upcoming game makes more sense.

Brb making the Clive support thread so we can try and claim FFXVI's getting repped



Also yes the XVI protag's named Clive, I'm surprised too

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

That is what makes a potential SE character fairly interesting to guess. All the major favorites have some potential impediments for one reason or another; thus leading to the current scenario where a Neku doesn't necessarily feel all that less likely than a Sora.

 

[PacificFun]

So Neku vs Lara vs 2B vs Bravely Defualt vs Gex vs...wait, hold up.

 

[SharkLord]

Brb making the Clive support thread so we can try and claim FFXVI's getting repped



Also yes the XVI protag's named Clive, I'm surprised too

TERRA
CLOUD
SQUALL
TIDUS
ZIDANE
LIGHTNING
NOCTIS

...

Clive

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Unless Nintendo and Sakurai are super mad because of the poor representation for Final Fantasy, I don't see any scenario where they would add another FF character.

You mean now or ever?

Also yes the XVI protag's named Clive, I'm surprised too

Whelp...he gets to join the weird name squad with Corrin, Byleth, Eleven, Eight, and Solo.

 

[Spongeboob]

I have a question: what's the deal with "reps"? Why do people care about "reps" so much? I'm not talking about SJW stuff like gender and ethnic groups (which seem to have faded into the abyss), but rather about company, franchise and genre representation.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

So Neku vs Lara vs 2B vs Bravely Defualt vs Gex vs...wait, hold up.

I think the next one after that is Pinocchio.

 

[PacificFun]

I have a question: what's the deal with "reps"? Why do people care about "reps" so much? I'm not talking about SJW stuff like gender and ethnic groups (which seem to have faded into the abyss), but rather about company, franchise and genre representation.

Because Smash is a crossover game. And with Cloud opening the flood gates for speculation (for better or worse), the whole "reps" thing was going to become more apparent no matter what.

 

[7NATOR]

I have a question: what's the deal with "reps"? Why do people care about "reps" so much? I'm not talking about SJW stuff like gender and ethnic groups (which seem to have faded into the abyss), but rather about company, franchise and genre representation.

Well taken into Account Sakurai, Reps actually do matter in context

In the "Standard for Selecting Characters"

So Representation does matter in terms of the Roster

As for why people care, well it's mostly a Speculation thing, and Precedent and all that. If Nintendo and Sakurai talks about wanting New audiences to play Smash, New Genre's are the way to go

If You want to talk about Precedent, we typically don't get more than 1 Company rep in the Same pass

and for Franchise, That's a Complicated can of worms and such

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Because Smash is a crossover game. And with Cloud opening the flood gates for speculation (for better or worse), the whole "reps" thing was going to become more apparent no matter what.

Excuse me, this is Snake erasure

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I have a question: what's the deal with "reps"? Why do people care about "reps" so much? I'm not talking about SJW stuff like gender and ethnic groups (which seem to have faded into the abyss), but rather about company, franchise and genre representation.

Company: Because there generally can only be one character added from them at a time, so there's competition.
Franchise: Because people want to see their favorite franchises show off all they have to offer in Super Smash Bros.
Genre: Because new genres bring new and interesting things to the table, and there are many different fans of many different genres so it's natural that some people would advocate for the "have not"s in that regard.

 

[Schnee117]

I think the next one after that is Pinocchio.

No it's Stromboli

 

[chocolatejr9]

So Neku vs Lara vs 2B vs Bravely Defualt vs Gex vs...wait, hold up.

Is this the part where I mention Balan Wonderworld?