Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[mariofan48]

As far as costumes to be fair, there are other Ubisoft franchises that could hypothetically come with Rayman. Something like a Far Cry, Prince of Persia, or Might and Magic Mii costume could easily be included.

Even other Rayman characters as Mii Costumes like Globox, Barbara, or the Teensies.

 

[mariofan48]

That implies that only the biggest series that a company has to offer can get their characters in, which is very untrue.

If this was the case we would have had Steve and Master Chief in instead of Banjo Kazooie and Steve, so you're 100% correct.

 

[Will]

Y'all debating whether Rayman or Crash would get in first? Back then, it'd be an easy win for Rayman, but with how the scope and spread of potential characters spread, it could be one or the other, there's no definitive answer that proves one or the other would objectively get in before the other. So the argument itself has no worthwhile answer to fight over.

 

[Spongeboob]

The best Warriors game is the one for the PlayStation 2. I haven't actually played it yet; I just felt like making the joke. I've heard great things about it, though...

Y'know, it's kind of funny when people say they want a character in Smash based on what they can do in a Dynasty Warriors spin-off. I think it mirrors quite well with how some people want a Pokemon based on what they can do in a Mystery Dungeon spin-off. There's nothing wrong with either. However, when people discuss "Koei Tecmo reps", those warrior games rarely come up and instead it's about **** like Atelier and Ninja Gaiden (or even actual Dynasty Warriors!)... just like how when people bring up "Spike Chunsoft reps", Mystery Dungeon rarely comes up and instead the discussion is usually about Danganronpa or, occasionally, Zero Escape.

So after reading all of this what do you think Rayman's chances are of being in Smash?

Spoiler: Long Post

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I don't think it means squat about Rayman's chances, but what this has done is make me see Rayman as a larger property than I had originally perceived it as. As for Point 8, I invite you to look at the Japanese release of Shovel Knight, as well as the international release of Dragon Quest IX. I don't think Nintendo publishes another company's games often, but it has happened before.

 

[SharkLord]

That implies that only the biggest series that a company has to offer can get their characters in, which is very untrue.

If this held true, we would've had a Challenger's Pack themed around Resident Evil, also known as Biohazard in Japan...

 

[mariofan48]

Also, Popularity in Japan doesn't stop a character from getting into Smash.

Banjo Kazooie was from a franchise that was pretty much 100% dead before they got into Smash and they still got in.

Terry Bogard was a Latin America pick.

Byleth was planned to be added no matter if the game succeeded or not. Three Houses could have completely flopped and Nintendo would have still pushed Byleth into Smash.

And even if they are Mii Fighter costumes, we still got characters like Sans, Cuphead, Vault Boy (Fallout), Travis Touchdown, Altair, etc, into the game as well, and a majority of these franchises, especially Fallout, are WAY more popular in the West/not that popular inside of Japan

 

[Will]

Terry Bogard was a Latin America pick.

i see this said all the time but i've seen no evidence going for it

 

[SharkLord]

i see this said all the time but i've seen no evidence going for it

I think this was kind of an assumption built up because SNK is very popular in Latin America. Still, I don't think Sakurai or Nintendo has given an explicit statement on this.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Banjo Kazooie was from a franchise that was pretty much 100% dead before they got into Smash and they still got in.

Implying Banjo wasn't popular in Japan.

Kazooie and Tooie sold very well there and there were Japanese fans who were thrilled in seeing them announced.

 

[Will]

I think this was kind of an assumption built up because SNK is very popular in Latin America. Still, I don't think Sakurai or Nintendo has given an explicit statement on this.

if it's an assumption why do people say it like it's a fact

 

[mariofan48]

Implying Banjo wasn't popular in Japan.

Kazooie and Tooie sold very well there and there were Japanese fans who were thrilled in seeing them announced.

I'm not saying Banjo wasn't popular in Japan. I'm saying that the people that have been requesting Banjo for almost 2 decades have been majority western fans. Same goes for characters like Ridley and King K. Rool. Also, in comparison Banjo's not as popular as Minecraft is, not even close.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Also, it's pretty clear that Terry was a Sakurai pick. KoF inspired Smash and Sakurai is a fan of the series.

 

[mariofan48]

Y'all debating whether Rayman or Crash would get in first? Back then, it'd be an easy win for Rayman, but with how the scope and spread of potential characters spread, it could be one or the other, there's no definitive answer that proves one or the other would objectively get in before the other. So the argument itself has no worthwhile answer to fight over.

I agree with this completely.

Honestly, I really want both Crash and Rayman to get in, both of them deserve it so, so much, and both Ubisoft and Activision have close relationships with Nintendo.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Byleth was a tone death reveal and did hurt Smash's "image" for a bit (at least to me). But with Steve, that whole thing has been sort of swept under the rug.

With how long it took for their reveal to come, the lack of substantial Nintendo 2020 news, them being another FE character, the reasoning they were picked and also being the final character at one point...yeah, they were destined to get hated on.

Nintendo can be really dumb sometimes.

Joke's on you.

I enjoyed Byleth's reveal a thousand times more than Steve's. I didn't even bother watching Steve's reveal when I read it was him, here in this thread. I also enjoyed Fire Emblem Three Houses, and every other Fire Emblem game way more than Minecraft.

Your opinion and tastes aren't universal.

 

[mariofan48]

Joke's on you.

I enjoyed Byleth's reveal a thousand times more than Steve's. I didn't even bother watching Steve's reveal when I read it was him, here in this thread. I also enjoyed Fire Emblem Three Houses, and every other Fire Emblem game way more than Minecraft.

Your opinion and tastes aren't universal.

I'm still of the opinion that Byleth was a fine addition to the roster it just... came at the wrong time.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Considering that we had 3 RPG characters in the last pass and that Crash Bandicoot and Rayman aren't really all that similar to each other, I don't think this is a thing.

Seriously, THIS.
The idea that we can only have one character of any other franchise, yet the community is constantly pushing for unending RPGs, is perhaps my least favorite thing about Smash speculation.

If Assassin's Creed and the Rabbids alone only got Mii costumes. That alone warrants Rayman's death sentence for being among the final 4.

Funny. I see it as the exact opposite.

So after reading all of this what do you think Rayman's chances are of being in Smash?

Spoiler: Long Post

I definitely think Rayman could be in the FP, but most of these points are half baked.
For example- copyright renewal. The point is poorly worded. I'm sure hundreds of characters and games have had copyright renewals, and one example I know for sure is Golden Sun. The only one that had a renewal and made it into the game as playable was Banjo. All the rest, didn't. This point seems to make the opposite statement more vivid.

Another example: The point about Mario and Rabbids is just incorrect, #CadenceOfHyrule immediately comes to mind.

Despite having played a lot of Rayman on the GBA and both versions of Rayman 3 and enjoying what little I played of my Legends copy, I'm kind of eh on Rayman, I'd need a moveset to really wow me and I know Sakurai is a COWARD who wouldn't make Rayman based around the beartrap hookshot power up in 3

I don't understand why you constantly call Sakurai a coward for not taking minor elements from gameplay of a character and creating a moveset out of them.

 

[PacificFun]

I'm still of the opinion that Byleth was a fine addition to the roster it just... came at the wrong time.

They had horrid timing and was another FE character to boot. If they were in FP2, I dont think they would have rubbed people the wrong way as hard.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'm still of the opinion that Byleth was a fine addition to the roster it just... came at the wrong time.

I don't think so. Why would it be a wrong time? Three Houses did incredibly well. Most successful Fire Emblem game to date, and for good reasons. It was still recent then too. I thought the timing was ideal honestly.

Also about the talks of new Warriors games for Nintendo, why not Super Smash Warriors?

 

[PLANTMAN]

Meanwhile...


with how much attention TWEWY has been getting I have more faith in Neku getting in by the day

Without using twewy2 as eveidence I’d say neku has a good chance right next to a bravely character I think he would be fun to play

besides neku getting in = bye bye geno. Haha

So after reading all of this what do you think Rayman's chances are of being in Smash?

Spoiler: Long Post

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still low at an alarming rate

1.Most of those are either stretches deep hole diggers and coincidences, including the bot

2.his games flopped in japan so I’d say he looks irelavent there

3. (Very irelavent to his smash inclusion chances) but the rayman creator retired to do nature stuff and what he said before that was after bg&e2 & wild he would be interested in doing rayman 4 so I wouldn’t expect a rayman return from Ubisoft anytime soon

If anything I’d expect ezio from AC to get in instead of him cuz I think ac looks like Ubisofts mascot now these days.
or was it the rabbids that are the Ubisoft mascots? Idk

btw Ubisoft celebrated just Dances anniversary but not raymans
https://twitter.com/ubisoft/status/1328710153265410049?s=21
lol

 

[SharkLord]

if it's an assumption why do people say it like it's a fact

Good question.

 

[Guynamednelson]

They had horrid timing and was another FE character to boot. If they were in FP2, I dont think they would have rubbed people the wrong way as hard.

Eh, people have absurdly high expectations once again thanks to Steve. It'd probably be worse to reveal Byleth after him unless it turned out Steve was the only big star.

And even then people will still be expecting a grand finale despite Steve being the only big star.

 

[pupNapoleon]

if it's an assumption why do people say it like it's a fact

Hey Will, welcome to Smash speculation!

 

[Rie Sonomura]

if it's an assumption why do people say it like it's a fact

Welcome to the DLC Thread, where assumptions are 100% facts and your feelings don’t matter!

/s

 

[pupNapoleon]

I'm not saying Banjo wasn't popular in Japan. I'm saying that the people that have been requesting Banjo for almost 2 decades have been majority western fans. Same goes for characters like Ridley and King K. Rool. Also, in comparison Banjo's not as popular as Minecraft is, not even close.

Also, it's pretty clear that Terry was a Sakurai pick. KoF inspired Smash and Sakurai is a fan of the series.

...this is speculation.

 

[PacificFun]

Eh, people have absurdly high expectations once again thanks to Steve. It'd probably be worse to reveal Byleth after him unless it turned out Steve was the only big star.

No like the beginning of FP2. I should have said that. That way, people would know they got in because of Three Houses' success and would be the "calm" before the storm.

 

[Will]

Hey Will, welcome to Smash speculation!

ah **** was i living under the wrong rock for the past five years

Also, it's pretty clear that Terry was a Sakurai pick.

i think he's just a pick, man. not a shill pick, a western pick, a japanese pick, a sakurai pick, just a pick.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

They had horrid timing and was another FE character to boot. If they were in FP2, I dont think they would have rubbed people the wrong way as hard.

Hell no lmao people would still complain, instead it'd be "Ughhhh they went back to an older Switch game to shill Fire Emblem instead of giving us what we truly want? For shame Nintendo! Fire Emblem took my wife and ****ed my crops". Timing of when a character is revealed would not ****ing change it, I saw Banjo stans who constantly said they'd be ok with Steve as long as he was after Banjo get incredibly upset about Steve's inclusion and the timing for Steve happened the exact way they wanted it to.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I'm still of the opinion that Byleth was a fine addition to the roster it just... came at the wrong time.

I mean, 1/7 DLC characters we have gotten have been Fire Emblem.
Meanwhile, 'overrepped' series that were base game have given us 1 Mario character and 1 Pokemon character.

 

[mariofan48]

Without using twewy2 as eveidence I’d say neku has a good chance right next to a bravely character I think he would be fun to play

besides neku getting in = bye bye geno. Haha

still low at an alarming rate

1.Most of those are either stretches deep hole diggers and coincidences, including the bot

2.his games flopped in japan so I’d say he looks irelavent there

3. (Very irelavent to his smash inclusion chances) but the rayman creator retired to do nature stuff and what he said before that was after bg&e2 & wild he would be interested in doing rayman 4 so I wouldn’t expect a rayman return from Ubisoft anytime soon

If anything I’d expect ezio from AC to get in instead of him cuz I think ac looks like Ubisofts mascot now these days.
or was it the rabbids that are the Ubisoft mascots? Idk

btw Ubisoft celebrated just Dances anniversary but not raymans
https://twitter.com/ubisoft/status/1328710153265410049?s=21
lol

Assassin's Creed may be the more popular franchise overall but Ezio isn't requested for Smash as much as Rayman is. Why would Sakurai go to Ubisoft to negotiate a character like Ezio when he knows that Rayman is WAY MORE requested? I'm pretty sure Ubisoft also knows that he is more requested for Smash. Rayman also fits the personality of Smash way more.

 

[PacificFun]

Hell no lmao people would still complain, instead it'd be "Ughhhh they went back to an older Switch game to shill Fire Emblem instead of giving us what we truly want? For shame Nintendo! Fire Emblem took my wife and ****ed my crops". Timing of when a character is revealed would not ****ing change it, I saw Banjo stans who constantly said they'd be ok with Steve as long as he was after Banjo get incredibly upset about Steve's inclusion and the timing for Steve happened the exact way they wanted it to.

People are going to be pissed no matter what but the fact that Byleth was basically the last chatacter at some point and was picked waaaaaay before Three Houses release is the real kicker to me. If they were in FP2, that "issue" would be gone.

Its funny because Byleth is the most "fair", no bull**** DLC character.

 

[SharkLord]

I don't think so. Why would it be a wrong time? Three Houses did incredibly well. Most successful Fire Emblem game to date, and for good reasons. It was still recent then too. I thought the timing was ideal honestly.

Also about the talks of new Warriors games for Nintendo, why not Super Smash Warriors?

I think the problem is A: Byleth was chosen in advance, so they came off as a walking ad for some instead of by their own merits, and B: We already had seven other Fire Emblem characters. Three Houses doing well and Byleth bringing the weapon triangle was ignored and they became a scapegoat for the issues with Fire Emblem's representation, when that dubious honor would go to Corrin, Chrom, and Lucina.

 

[mariofan48]

I think the problem is A: Byleth was chosen in advance, so they came off as a walking ad for some instead of by their own merits, and B: We already had seven other Fire Emblem characters. Three Houses doing well and Byleth bringing the weapon triangle was ignored and they became a scapegoat for the issues with Fire Emblem's representation, when that dubious honor would go to Corrin, Chrom, and Lucina.

Exactly this. they planned to put out Byleth as a Smash character even if Three Houses ended up completely flopping. This is evidenced by Sakurai saying that they gave him a beta build to play. Byleth was always an advertisment, instead of waiting to see if he was actually worthy of Smash. Of course, Three Houses ended up being really good so he did, but he really should have been reserved for after the game popped off.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

PapaGenos talks about that big old Capcom leak.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Hey Will, welcome to the internet!

Welcome to the internet, where assumptions are 100% facts and your feelings don’t matter!

/s

Fixed.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I think the problem is A: Byleth was chosen in advance, so they came off as a walking ad for some instead of by their own merits, and B: We already had seven other Fire Emblem characters. Three Houses doing well and Byleth bringing the weapon triangle was ignored and they became a scapegoat for the issues with Fire Emblem's representation, when that dubious honor would go to Corrin, Chrom, and Lucina.

Honestly, I think my issue with Fire Emblem is just that we keep being told nonsense from Nintendo as to why it was picked.
You want to promote a new game? Pokemon. It was more relevant at the time and objectively more popular.
Want to promote a game that needs help in Sm4sh? Again, I scream, Chibi-Robo!

Instead, we get a reveal trailer that comes across as mocking, wherein we are told the character will seem redundant "another sword user?" as well as, literally, given the finger. It just comes across as smug.

 

[PacificFun]

Min Min sort of felt like a Byleth "apology" If I'm being honest. A lot of Arms and Xenoblade 2 fans were pissed when Byleth was revealed. It was kind of a slap in the face to them.

I really hope Nintendo learned from that.

 

[Guynamednelson]

literally, given the finger

I know you love to constantly bring this up, but Sakurai wasn't even doing the gesture correctly. He was sticking his thumb out when it should be in.

 

[mariofan48]

Speaking of the Capcom leaks, Phoenix Wright is the only other Capcom character I want in Smash.

 

[cashregister9]

Assassin's Creed may be the more popular franchise overall but Ezio isn't requested for Smash as much as Rayman is. Why would Sakurai go to Ubisoft to negotiate a character like Ezio when he knows that Rayman is WAY MORE requested? I'm pretty sure Ubisoft also knows that he is more requested for Smash. Rayman also fits the personality of Smash way more.

Because Nintendo is choosing the characters like Sakurai has stated, Several times. Nintendo is probably more business oriented

 

[Cutie Gwen]

People are going to be pissed no matter what but the fact that Byleth was basically the last chatacter at some point and was picked waaaaaay before Three Houses released is the real kicker to me. If they were in FP2, that "issue" would be gone.

Its funny because Byleth is the most "fair", no bull**** DLC character.

Again, that literally wouldn't have people be accepting as the issue for them wasn't when Byleth came out, but Byleth being a Fire Emblem character. People would just use a different excuse as again, those Banjo stans who weren't ok with Steve despite saying he'd be fine if he was after Banjo

Min Min sort of felt like a Byleth "apology" If I'm being honest. A lot of Arms and Xenoblade 2 fans were pissed when Byleth was revealed.

Min Min was locked in long before Byleth was revealed, not to mention that there's no need to apologize to people who see "They were too new to be added to the base game as they literally didn't exist back when the project planning began" and get angry because DLC doesn't need to take multiple years of development