Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[kaithehedgefox]

Spoiler: Update on my opinions and behavior

PSA: Please ignore all my post and topics that were created before the COVID-19 pandemic. My opinions and thoughts have had major changes since the pandemic initiated. My behavior has now improved and I will not cause anymore trouble from now on.

All my posts from before the pandemic are now all outdated.

Hatsume Miku could happen but I don't know why she would, just the character itself wouldn't really work for Smash.

Please explain why Hatsune Miku could happen.

But anyway, Happy Halloween to everyone!

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Spoiler: Update on my opinions and behavior

PSA: Please ignore all my post and topics that were created before the COVID-19 pandemic. My opinions and thoughts have had major changes since the pandemic initiated. My behavior has now improved and I will not cause anymore trouble from now on.

All my posts from before the pandemic are now all outdated.

The same here with me.

 

[latsmash]

Fairly popular in some areas of the world, and she's owned by a company Nintendo wouldn't have a hard time negotiating with. There are things pointing towards Hatsume, but not enough to trump other characters

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Fairly popular in some areas of the world, and she's owned by a company Nintendo wouldn't have a hard time negotiating with. There are things pointing towards Hatsume, but not enough to trump other characters

So who owns Hatsune Miku again? I may have forgotten? And why wouldn't Nintendo struggle negotiating with that company?

 

[cashregister9]

So who owns Hatsune Miku again? I may have forgotten? And why wouldn't Nintendo struggle negotiating with that company?

Hatsune Miku is owned by Crypton Future Media who is owned by Yamaha but all of Hatsune Miku's video game appearances are handled by SEGA

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Hatsune Miku is owned by Crypton Future Media who is owned by Yamaha but all of Hatsune Miku's video game appearances are handled by SEGA

Not ranting/complaining, but it was officially confirmed last year that only videogame characters are eligible to be playable. While my opinions and behavior has improved, I still think Hatsune Miku can become an assist trophy in Smash 6, given that the Goldeneye motion sensor bomb originated from a non-videogame franchise.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

This joke doesn't really work because you keep taking the bait anyway.

Also because macaroni and cheese has a lot of salt in it.

Absolutely.

...

So what characters do you guys think will be cut in the next Smash Bros?

Roughly in order of most to least likely to be cut:

• Joker
• Piranha Plant
• Wii Fit Trainer
• Mii Fighters
• Young Link
• Byleth
• Pokemon Trainer
• Snake
• Wolf
• Palutena
• Ice Climbers
• Bowser Jr.
• Hero
• Terry
• Pac-Man
• Corrin
• Steve
• Incineroar

Sorry, but didn't we have this discussion yesterday?

Maybe something like "Which character from a genre you've not played extensively would you like to see"? (For me, Adol / Gilgamesh since I don't have much RPG experience.)

What qualifies as "extensively?" I've only played a few actions RPGs (not including "adventure" games like Zelda). If that's few enough, my answers are Neku and Rondoline.

 

[SharkLord]

A notable issue with Miku is that apparently, a lot of her songs have licenses attached to them. Since Nintendo only deals with the direct owner, as seen with Final Fantasy, this poses a major issue, seeing as Vocaloids are music software.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

A notable issue with Miku is that apparently, a lot of her songs have licenses attached to them. Since Nintendo only deals with the direct owner, as seen with Final Fantasy, this poses a major issue, seeing as Vocaloids are music software.

I think just having Miku as an assist trophy an mii costume should be fine.

 

[cashregister9]

A notable issue with Miku is that apparently, a lot of her songs have licenses attached to them. Since Nintendo only deals with the direct owner, as seen with Final Fantasy, this poses a major issue, seeing as Vocaloids are music software.

Yeah the music is either owned by the Producer or the music Label and I'm pretty sure No one wants to get involved with Big Music Labels so the most I could see ever is a mii costume but even then it is a definite maybe.

 

[Wigglerman]

Also because macaroni and cheese has a lot of salt in it.

Roughly in order of most to least likely to be cut:

• Joker
• Piranha Plant
• Wii Fit Trainer
• Mii Fighters
• Young Link
• Byleth
• Pokemon Trainer
• Snake
• Wolf
• Palutena
• Ice Climbers
• Bowser Jr.
• Hero
• Terry
• Pac-Man
• Corrin
• Steve
• Incineroar

• 
  
  The only way I could see Mii Fighters getting the axe in the foreseeable future is if Mii costumes aren't making money. They seem to be a great way to 'fit in characters' that didn't make the cut or couldn't be negotiated fully or whatever reasons. Cheap little add ons to give characters/franchises a bit of inclusion in Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

A notable issue with Miku is that apparently, a lot of her songs have licenses attached to them. Since Nintendo only deals with the direct owner, as seen with Final Fantasy, this poses a major issue, seeing as Vocaloids are music software.

The solution here is clearly for Sakurai to compose some Vocaloid songs of his own

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

• 
  
  The only way I could see Mii Fighters getting the axe in the foreseeable future is if Mii costumes aren't making money. They seem to be a great way to 'fit in characters' that didn't make the cut or couldn't be negotiated fully or whatever reasons. Cheap little add ons to give characters/franchises a bit of inclusion in Smash.

Aren't Miis being abandoned?

 

[3BitSaurus]

Before I read this I thought the trailer was for Hades DLC or something. lol

Also, it kind of feels like you need to understand League of Legends lore before you could understand this.

I'm a bit divided on this tbh. On one hand, Riot is probably aware that these spinoffs are great gateways for people to play League - not to mention there's a good number of users that are interested in Ruined King as an RPG, but don`t play MOBAs, so they might want to help new players ease into the universe.

On the other hand, some of these spinoffs might also be targeted at their "hardcore" fanbase, and this might be one of them.

We'll have to wait and see.

 

[Wigglerman]

Aren't Miis being abandoned?

This would be the first I've heard of it but I don't follow gaming news as religiously as I used to. It's possible Nintendo might move on from them but it feels like they've been part of Nintendo's 'identity' for a while now and not sure why they'd give them up now. Was there an article/announcement recently stating they were giving up on the Mii concept?

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

This would be the first I've heard of it but I don't follow gaming news as religiously as I used to. It's possible Nintendo might move on from them but it feels like they've been part of Nintendo's 'identity' for a while now and not sure why they'd give them up now. Was there an article/announcement recently stating they were giving up on the Mii concept?

I thought I remembered something like that, but I don't remember the specifics. Maybe it was about Miiverse or something ending, and not Miis altogether. I would be a little surprised if Nintendo carried them over to their next console, though.

 

[Wigglerman]

I thought I remembered something like that, but I don't remember the specifics. Maybe it was about Miiverse or something ending, and not Miis altogether. I would be a little surprised if Nintendo carried them over to their next console, though.

After a brief search it seems more in the vein that Nintendo is not doing much in the way of Mii related games like Wii Sports and those sorts of titles that revolve around the Mii's as the primary characters in the game. Since the Mii's have so much customization and people seem to really like making creative Mii characters (Either of celebs or fictional characters by really tooling with the creator), they feel like a big success and a solid 'icon' of sorts for Nintendo since you can make yourself or...well...just about anyone as an avatar (or in the case of Smash, a fighter. Now with added benefit of Mii Costumes).

Though who knows. Next system might ditch them all together though it'd seem a bit drastic.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

Not likely to happen (even as a spirit) but Rick from Splatterhouse would be a nice tribute to an early prominent horror character in video games.

Splatterhouse is essentially Namco's own equivalent to Capcom's Darkstalkers: a series that almost never gets the respect it deserves from anyone other than its super-dedicated fans.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

While the one troll went waaaaay too far.

I will admit that I hate the whole conversation that happened prior to it.

"Please stop being obnoxious about hating this one thing."

"Oh I guess I gotta be a sheeple so that I don't offend anyone. Oh I'll stop critical thought and act like a dum dum."

If that mirrors any political arguments you may have seen, it should. It's the same ****ing behavior.

Directly mocking people who ask you to stop only makes one look like an idiot.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Regarding the Ruined King conversation earlier: Nintendo finally dropped the trailer on their channel. They were the last platform to do so, and this marks the first time something directly related to League appears on their channel.

Good times indeed.

 

[Curious Villager]

I kind of feel that if Mii's where to be no more on the next Nintendo console, and assuming Sakurai still wanted to keep them around. He'd probably try and have the Mii Maker functionality built in to Smash itself, if it where to come to that point.

I mean, he's also kinda the only one still keeping the Gamecube controller alive...

But that's probably just me...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

While I think "video game characters only" is a bit restrictive, we shouldn't go much further beyond that to avoid severe scope issues (we have enough of those as it is). As a celebration of gaming with a Nintendo focus, the question I think we should be asking is "did they or their series make an impact on gaming" rather than "are they video game characters". This way we don't have to ignore parts or all of certain series because of their non-video game origin such as the Disney content in Kingdom Hearts and Marvel Vs. Capcom.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I kind of feel that if Mii's where to be no more on the next Nintendo console, and assuming Sakurai still wanted to keep them around. He'd probably try and have the mii maker functionality built in to Smash itself, if it where to come to that point.

I mean, he's also kinda the only one still keeping the Gamecube controller alive...

But that's probably just me...

I do think that Miis will stay for profile purposes.

They may never rise to their prior prominence again (and we will lose a lot of great IPs with it), but I think they'll stick around.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I do think that Miis will stay for profile purposes.

They may never rise to their prior prominence again (and we will lose a lot of great IPs with it), but I think they'll stick around.

They might not even stick around for that. I can easily see the other, premade profile icons taking over from here on out.

 

[MooMew64]

I do think that Miis will stay for profile purposes.

They may never rise to their prior prominence again (and we will lose a lot of great IPs with it), but I think they'll stick around.

Looks over at Miitopia and Tomodachi Life

...

Spoiler

It ain't fair, man.

We ain't ever gonna get Mii Mage in Smash either.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I do find it odd that the Switch finally added so many more customization options for Miis and games just don't use them...

At this point, I think Ultimate is the only game that uses them in a major way.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Honestly, Miku is not getting in. Even if she were to be considered a Video Game Character, I doubt they would go with her anyways considering how she would likely have a Music Nightmare even WORSE than Steve's.

 

[Koopaul]

We talking about the next Smash again? It's not coming until the next system which won't be for a long time. Who knows what direction they will go in the future.

One thing is for certain, it won't be a "deluxe port". It would be a copyright nightmare to get all those 3rd party characters back. And even if they could it would just be plain stupid to do anyway. Nintendo will have a shiny new system that's going to be more powerful than the Switch and you expect them to just port a 6 year old game instead of making a brand new installment to show off the system's new capabilities?

 

[RileyXY1]

We talking about the next Smash again? It's not coming until the next system which won't be for a long time. Who knows what direction they will go in the future.

One thing is for certain, it won't be a "deluxe port". It would be a copyright nightmare to get all those 3rd party characters back. And even if they could it would just be plain stupid to do anyway. Nintendo will have a shiny new system that's going to be more powerful than the Switch and you expect them to just port a 6 year old game instead of making a brand new installment to show off the system's new capabilities?

Yeah, and it's not like the Wii U where barely anyone owned one.

 

[JOJONumber691]

We talking about the next Smash again? It's not coming until the next system which won't be for a long time. Who knows what direction they will go in the future.

One thing is for certain, it won't be a "deluxe port". It would be a copyright nightmare to get all those 3rd party characters back. And even if they could it would just be plain stupid to do anyway. Nintendo will have a shiny new system that's going to be more powerful than the Switch and you expect them to just port a 6 year old game instead of making a brand new installment to show off the system's new capabilities?

I think there will be two Nintendo Systems Next Generation, mostly due to Third Party Support, one that continues the Switch Legacy, another that does something new. I think there's a Possibility of the less powerful Switch 2 getting an Ultimate Port, but the more powerful system getting a Soft Reboot. Those are my thoughts anyways. This especially applies if the Developer were ArcSys.

 

[SKX31]

What qualifies as "extensively?" I've only played a few actions RPGs (not including "adventure" games like Zelda). If that's few enough, my answers are Neku and Rondoline.

I'd say something to the tune of A) Haven't beaten a game in the genre, or B) Have less than say 10-20 hours of playtime.

I kind of feel that if Mii's where to be no more on the next Nintendo console, and assuming Sakurai still wanted to keep them around. He'd probably try and have the mii maker functionality built in to Smash itself, if it where to come to that point.

I mean, he's also kinda the only one still keeping the Gamecube controller alive...

But that's probably just me...

Yeah, that and the Melee scene creates a strong demand for Gamecube controllers (which in turn influences other Smash scenes - the competitive Ultimate scene also wants Gamecube controllers generally). I'm pretty sure Nintendo wanted to bring them into the Smash 4 / Ultimate fold when the GCN controllers and the GCN-to-Wii U-adapter were first re-issued back in 2014. And later on when Reggie made this comment:

In a very telling interview with ESPN, Regis Fils-Aimé former President of Nintendo America, quietly nudges the Smash community to just drop that dead old title.

“First, the community themselves need to rally around a particular title,” Reggie said. “We had some Melee players get their hands on the game, and they were quite excited — we could see a consolidation of Smash play, competitive play, behind Ultimate, which in our view would be fantastic. Because what that would then enable us to do is again, standardize the rules of play, make sure that the setups, the wired controllers, all of that is there, so that there’s no more excuses. There’s no Johns!”

It does kind of miss why Melee's still going (although I'm pretty sure many within Nintendo know perfectly well why). It's not just the gameplay (although that's a main reason why those who favor Melee tend to gravitate towards that title), it's also that the Melee scene's still in strong enough numbers and have better online than Nintendo's own official online modes. And not just Ultimate's online, Brawl's and Smash 4's were far from amazing as well.*

*One can make the argument that Smash 4's online was kinda decent, but I don't really buy it when it was limited in terms of modes.

I do find it odd that the Switch finally added so many more customization options for Miis and games just don't use them...

At this point, I think Ultimate is the only game that uses them in a major way.

Which is a major shame, since it's a missed opportunity. I don't think the Miis are going away - Mii Costumes sell well generally and the Miis have 3 different movesets (as well as customization). Still, it does tie into the general issue of Nintendo not really using their old(er) stuff when they have an opportunity to do so.

 

[Goombaic]

You expect them to just port a 6 year old game instead of making a brand new installment to show off the system's new capabilities?

Seeing how ports are still demanded at the moment, yeah, I see that as one of the likelier scenarios. The port could also be optimized for the new console much like Mario Kart 8.

 

[SharkLord]

I think just having Miku as an assist trophy an mii costume should be fine.

How'd you even make her an Assist Trophy? Cramming unrepresented series into the Assist Trophy role when they wouldn't fit it very well just doesn't work. It worked fine for Bomberman, who actually does the Assist role well with his bombs, but characters like Krystal, Waluigi, and Alucard just feel like the poor man's fighter and scream missed potential.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I do find it odd that the Switch finally added so many more customization options for Miis and games just don't use them...

At this point, I think Ultimate is the only game that uses them in a major way.

According to Wikipedia, Miis show up in the following Switch games:

1. Go Vacation
2. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe
3. New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe
4. Super Mario Maker 2
5. Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

So off-brand Wii Sports Resort, 2 ports, and 2 sequels that used Miis in the prior game...That's just sad.

 

[Icedragonadam]

I never really like the miis. They're among my least favorite avatar characters mainly because I just find them to be ugly.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

At least the Miis have some insurance in that they are perfect for menus and such.

 

[cashregister9]

How'd you even make her an Assist Trophy? Cramming unrepresented series into the Assist Trophy role when they wouldn't fit it very well just doesn't work. It worked fine for Bomberman, who actually does the Assist role well with his bombs, but characters like Krystal, Waluigi, and Alucard just feel like the poor man's fighter and scream missed potential.

On the flipside, I think those Assists like Krystal, Zero, Alucard, etc. while I would rather have them playable. Having them appear in the game in a modeled capacity is really cool. Those characters are still in Smash fighting Minecraft Steve and Mario. I would rather have all of them be playable though.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I kind of feel that if Mii's where to be no more on the next Nintendo console, and assuming Sakurai still wanted to keep them around. He'd probably try and have the mii maker functionality built in to Smash itself, if it where to come to that point.

I mean, he's also kinda the only one still keeping the Gamecube controller alive...

But that's probably just me...

Please no. At that point, just give us a good character creation system.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Please no. At that point, just give us a good character creation system.

But Miis are a good character creation system.

In Smash 4, I would agree, the system was all kinds of borked.

But Ultimate streamlined and balanced Miis to the point where they're a welcome addition and super fun to play.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Please no. At that point, just give us a good character creation system.

Yeah, with how poorly designed the Mii Fighters are, I don't think it would be worth the memory space or dev time.